Fit For Natalie

Supreme Starscream is a heavily reworked version of the smaller one. He has more detail (though far less than he should at that scale), and he transforms slightly differently from the original, smaller version. In fact, come to think of it, many of his parts aren't even the same as the smaller Starscream's - he's essentially a new design. A somewhat lazy redesign, true, but not merely an upsized version. His chest guns, immobile on the small versions, can rotate upwards to actually fire forward, his gimmick activation slots are now in the tops of his shoulders instead of his back (which are now Cyber Key storage slots), activating indepedantly from each other. His left arm houses a null ray cannon instead of a sword (which was broken off in episode 26). They should have given him articulated hands, though

I should note that Primus and Unicron are NOT THAT TALL - I placed them on top of CD spindles so they (rightfully) tower over everybody else. DECEPTICONS... GO! Ironically, this isn't part of a display - after I got Primus yesterday morning, nearly ALL of my Cyb-GF stuff were in boxes (long story) so I had to unpack them, transform them and just stand them. I didn't even think of posing them or anything, I just stood them so they don't look like -as you said- 'just chuck them on the table and take a pic'.I just set up this Decepticons pic because I was going to do one yesterday (but was too tired from all that Transforming ).

All of my Galaxy Force/Cybertron Autobots thus far. Marvel at my crappy photography skills, proving that having a good camera doesn't make your pictures better if you don't know how to use it!

I don’t understand what kind of point you’re trying to make here. First of all you point out “occasional†US releases have more paint than their Japanese counterparts. Well that seems to be more the exception and not the rule. Furthermore this isn’t one of them. As for the larger Energon bots, I never collected a single Energon figure other than the Energon Sabers so I can’t verify or deny what you’re talking about. Features being gutted out of the figures doesn’t really matter to me that much either, since I’m not actually going to be playing with my toys anyway. Plain and simple for display purposes the Japanese counterparts almost always look better. Am I willing to pay a little more because of that? Yes. More than double? No. But if you can get the Japanese figures on preorder before they become scarce you can easily land them for only a little more than their American counterparts would cost and usually (but not always) a lot quicker. 388413[/snapback] Let me explain - Occassionally, US releases have had more paint than their japanese counterparts. Japanophiles will rationalise that, in this instance, less paint on the japanese version is clearly better, even though in every other instance they lord the fact the japanese version has more paint than the US version. That is confusing. In the Superlink series (Energon in Japan), in a cost-cutting measure, Takara gutted the electronics out of all the larger Autobot figures except for Grand Convoy (he had his speaker gutted, but not his LED) and Omega Supreme. The Decepticons retained any electronics they had in the US versions because, being bad guys, they needed all the retailing help they could get. Japanophiles rationalised this by saying the japanese got the sweeter deal by paying more money, for less product. Regardless of wether you play with the toys or not, or wether or not you ever use the features, its not a very good thing for the consumer to bear.

Well that right there is a difference. I own both toys as well, and my GF Convoy is still in box. The Cybertron Prime has noticably less paint than the Japanese version as the American releases almost always do, and for the price i've seen GF convoy going for lately (i read he was on clearance in Japan), i'd put up a little extra money for the GF version if i didn't already own both. 388005[/snapback] Ahh, well as paint goes, occassionally US versions have more paint, or in the case of most of the large Energon Autobots, more features. Some Japanocentric fans usually find a way of rationalising that in this case, less paint is better or having features gutted is better all the while paying more money. It is confusing to deal with japanophiles. The irony is that Hasbro's factories are producing Primus and Soundblaster for Takara. Primus has a Hasbro Cyber Key (number printed on back - also explains why the release date for Hasbro's Primus has been moved up) and a test shot of Soundblaster had Hasbro's 'security paint spray' so they can ID test shots.

Well, Transformers as a brand, even with collector-focused lines like Masterpiece and BT/Alts, it is still overall a mass-market toy brand, so they have to keep prices at a reasonable level that non-collector consumers, and ESPECIALLY brick and motor retailers, such as Wal*mart, are willing to accept. Different to Japan or asia were they can flog (what would be the equivalent of) $150+ collector toys to a rather small, niche market yet still turn in a profit. Hasbro just deals with a much larger market for all of its goods. Same thing. I call them Prime and Rodimus Prime since 'Convoy' is an awkward word to use in conversational english, unless I am referring specifically to such and such japanese version. Super Ginrai was originally Powermaster Optimus Prime, who was an upgrade to Optimus Prime. PM Prime was released before Takara reworked the tooling for their market. They're doing Convoys because generally, Convoys, especially ones that look like G1 Prime, tend to sell well in Japan. Its generally accepted the american-created leaders (G1 Prime and Optimus Primal) are the most popular over the home-grown Autobot versions. Eh? I owned both Galaxy Convoy and Cybertron Prime - only difference is the crap Hasbro instructions, slightly less paint and a retooling of the small wings so they aren't held on by a pin. Same toy otherwise

That's because Galaxy Force ended prematurely in Japan, due to poor sales, and Takara slowed down their TF releases leading up to the merger with Tomy. [ Wow, that was downright jaw dropping. I remember seeing this CG render when it first started surfacing but i had no idea the guy was actually putting his render into motion. That is some seriously talented work. As for Don Figueroa i had no idea he had anything to do with the movie? I think Don Figureroa is easily the best TF artist out there right now, but i don't remember reading him designing the TF's in the movie. If this is the case i don't think we'll have anything to worry about when it comes to the designs of the robots... as for the movie itself though, that might be a different story... let's just say i don't have high hopes for it. 387028[/snapback] Wrong Don. TF movie producer is Don Murphy. Don Figueroa works with Hasbro designing toys these days along side his comic work, but most likely doesn't have anything to do with the movie. No way no how. Ridiculous suggestion. 'Not that big?' You've got to be joking.

Don Murphy just confirmed it. Guy will play Spike That episode was terrible in an amusing way - 'Megatron's Master Plan', 2-part episode where continuity apparently went out the window. One act of alledged Autobot villiany and one act of alledged Decepticon heroism is enough to turn all of America (and thus the world) against the Autobots, forgetting the 50 billion other times the Decepticons attacked humans and the Autobots saved the humans.

Unfortunately, TM1 Megatron is infamous for being fragile and prone to breakage, due to design and probably the materials used at the time. I am unaware if the Armada 'Predacon' version (the last toy made using the tooling) was as susceptible to such damage. The BT version(s) have been postponed... if not altogether canceled. There's been no news on them for about a month or two now. I don't think the BT/BTA line is totally canceled or anything, but more like takara/tomy is reworking their business strategy after their recent merger, but if we do see him it might be a while yet before he's released. 385223[/snapback] The bastards at Takara didn't want to make the Dodge Ram (because apparently such foriegn concepts as a pickup truck will be unpopular with the japanese market) unless they could make it as a Convoy, as Optimus Prime. Hasbro originally planned it as a different, undisclosed character. Hasbro relented - then Takara screwed them over by changing the character into GINRAI, ie, not Convoy, thus making the whole character change pointless, especially given how well the last Ginrai toy released by Takara did. Really, Takara's TF division is talented, if a little unimaginative and somewhat focused on what has been done before rather than the future. But Takara's marketing department has been responsible for some pretty bad ideas that turned out to be very unprofitable (such as Binaltech Asterisk, the line intended to boost sales by costing more money. BRILLIANT). What's interesting is the cartoons (catered to the japanese market) that Takara marketing and Aeon (now We've) - the production company - are responsible for are generally less popular among the japanese fans than the american-written shows.

Famicom (NES): Mystery of Comvoy (crap game, misspelt and all) Playstation and PC: Beast Wars (crap game) Playsatation and Nintendo 64: Beast Wars: Transmetals (has voices of most of the cast) Playstation 2: Transformers G1 Tatakai (Somehow, a PSOne game from 1996 managed to teleport into 2003 and become a PS2 game. Awful). Playstation 2: Transformers (Based upon Armada, quite a good, if somewhat simple shoot-em up style game. Great graphics. Beloved by the gaming press.)

FULL SIZE CLEAR SCAN OF SS! Thanks to www.fantofan.jp.

Ahh well, let's agree to disagree.They wern't going for a Gundam Prime, they were going for an accurate cartoon representation of Prime in toy form, because Prime's torso in robot mode was dramatically different from his truck cab in vehicle mode. I think your gundam criticism comes from the skirt guards, yes? Interestingly enough, one of the rejected MP Prime designs was by Don Figueroa, who had designed it to be, essentially a big, updated version of the original G1 Prime transformation, except with modern TF design elements, such as flip out hands, which, as he indicated on the sketch, was based upon Transmetal Optimus Primal's flip-out fists.

While not replicas, they are reasonably accurate to the real vehicles.A. Red Alert = Mid-90s Nissan Patrol A. Side Swipe = Early 90s Nissan Skyline. Sure his robot mode blows. E. Hot Shot = Aston Martin Vanquish E. Downshift = Cadillac Sixteen concept E. Plane dudes whose names I can't remember = A-10 Thunderbolt E. Blight and Kickback = Tunguska M1 Low level air defence system C. Hot Shot = Chrysler ME Four-Twelve C. Thundercracker = SU-37 Super Flanker C. Red Alert = Dodge Magnum C. Downshift = Various 70s muscle cars C. Crosswise = Bugatti Veyron C. Armorhide = Volvo cab over truck of which I am unaware of the exact model C. Runabout/Runamuck = Nissan Skyline C. Cybertron Defence Hot Shot = M1117 Security Vehicle C. Cybertron Defence Red Alert = BTR-80 russian APC with giant missile from hell Vehicles that are based upon real designs, but aren't close or OMFG realistic enough to be 'realistic': E. Bulkhead = KA-52 Alligator C. Wing Saber = A-10 Thunderbolt C. Soundwave = Have Blue stealth bomber prototype Vehicles that are fairly realistic but I am unaware of the exact real-world vehicle equivalents: C. Evac = popular modern rescue Helicopter whose name escapes me. Look at my examples.I think that's a rather extreme view to take, and it seems as though you didn't understand my reasoning whatsoever. Kawamori's designers for anime, which are later turned into toys. TFs are designed as toys first, which are later turned into cartoons. Different requirements and different markets. Different retail prices, too. That perhaps I can agree with, but I think it also has to do with his lack of experience with Transformers. I don't think Phyrox was suggesting that. 382195[/snapback] Then I'll suggest that TF would be taken as seriously as (by comparison in the west) obscure anime mecha soap operas

*looks at the transformers of the past 5 years*I don't think TFs are designed 'at the severe expense of the alt modes'. After all, they begin with the alt mode, and then try to figure out how they can turn it into a robot, and there are still plenty of fairly realistic-looking vehicle modes even in the mainlines of Armada, Energon and especially Cybertron. The difference between Transformers and Kawamori's non-sentient mecha (and this goes for all the other japanese non-sentient mecha, too) is that TFs are living alien robots, with personality and character, whose ability to transform is not explained in the cartoon incarnations, and frankly, doesn't need to be explained. Hell, you don't even need to explain why there is living mechanical life out in space, either. Sure, when you're a mecha designer for a typical japanese mecha anime where hot shot pilots and brooding villians sit inside a cockpit, you're going to try to figure out how it would work as a real mechanical vehicle to maintain the plausibility of a human-constructed device in a somewhat realistic fictional universe But when you're designing an alien robot toy who doesn't need to conform to real-world physics or plausible engineering, why bother going to the trouble of 'plausibility'? Cybertron Jetfire was not meant to be an OMFG JAPANESE REALISTIC representation of a real-life cargo plane. He's meant to be a fun kids toy. There are plenty of other realistic-looking vehicles in Cybertron, showing they can do realism in a kids-focused mainline, and they can do super-duper realistic accurate replicas in lines like Alternators. But its not called for in a kids line like Cybertron. Hasbro/Takara deal with several market groups with their Transformers, not a mainly collector-focused market like there is for Macross toys. Besides, your comment of 'Better robots at the severe expense of alt mode, ESPECIALLY for real-life vehicles' is hilariously ironic given the horrible truck mode Kawamori designed for THS G1 Convoy. The irony there is that the Diaclone toys only gained mainstream popularity in Japan once Takara imported the toys back as Transformers, as well as dubbing the US cartoon series.Additionally, interest in Transformers in Japan started to drop off when japanese writers took over the animated series (beginning with Headmasters) when Hasbro ended the US TF cartoon. There is a distinct difference between the US series and the Japanese series that followed it, and I believe the japanese audience took note of this change. This happened during Beast Wars, too - the US/Canadian series was sucessful compared with Takara's home market to the anime mayhem that was the japanese-written Beast Wars the Second and Beast Wars Neo series. That definately says something about the sucess of the Transformers in relation to the Western constribution and development of the series, as opposed to the difficulties Japan has with the concepts. Don't think this is gonna happen. Any series, movie, or whatever based on a sometimes cool, often mediocre toy line is never gonna be taken seriously. And I imagine never believed in to any degree. 381751[/snapback] I don't think anybody believes in Macross, or Gundam or any other 'realistic' japanese mecha series, either. They'd be insane to believe in giant robots, no?I think Transformers, popular as it is, is taken seriously as an american pop-culture icon and a serious money maker. With the upcomining movie, written by americans, hell, it might reignite Transformers popularity in Japan. Some of you guys don't know how to have fun and suspend your disbelief

Its not remolded - its an all new Astrotain from the upcoming Transformers Classics line, the pre-movie Neo-G1 line. Unfortunately, Tformers shouldn't have posted these pics, because its a resin prototype never meant to be seen unless its in an official capacity (such as a convention or magazine article). From what I am told, these pics were originally from the Japanese Patent office, so both Hasbro and Takara will not be pleased.

Doesn't really matter - most new TF toys are made with US safety laws in mind, so, usually, if a part is rubber on the Hasbro version, it is also rubber on the Takara version. They usually do not go the trouble and cost of drastically changing anything unless they discover a flaw or something turns out not to pass safety, such as Vector Prime's sword handle being notoriously prone to snapping on the japanese version (necessitating a move to a softer clear plastic), or MP Prime's smokestacks (a considerable weak point for brittle vaccum-metallised plastic) breaking into horribly sharp and pointy fragments. Its not that Hasbro doesn't *want* to release gun Megatrons, its due to US laws. Some states only need an orange cap, while other states require an entirely neon-coloured gun. Blame non-cohesive US laws, the fact real guns are so common and relatively easy to purchase by most people, that kids playing with realistic toy guns can be mistaken by police for handling real guns. They tried to reissue G1 Megatron in neon orange and blue based on Megatron as he fell into the lava at the end of 'Heavy Metal Wars' (G1 Season 1 Finale), but it looked like crap so they decided against it. The upcoming Transformers Classics Megatron apparently has a non-realistic revolver design, abit like a recent (very cool-looking) Nerf revolver gun.

The Australian Toy Fair Day 1 as reported by Mousedroid.com. Thanks to llamatron from the heads up. A mock up of six-inch Titanium War Within Prime in box Close look at vehicle mode and character bio How he compares in size with SW Titanium Ultras TF artist extrodinaire, Don Figueroa posted at the TFW2005 Boards stating he designed Titanium Megatron as an all-new Megatron tank design. It is not meant to be War Within Megatron. He also mentioned designing the WW Prime toy himself. Presuming he also designed the other toys in this line, HOPEFULLY we will one day see things like GI Joe Vs Transformers designs. I hope they do the HISS, though I heard TF brand manager Aaron Archer is a major fan of the HISS tank. And for fun, a giant Cybertron Prime prop, hyper-accurately sculpted based upon a mistransformed Prime toy

Since BBTS's pics have been taken down, Thundercracker:

I'm amused at how similar the basic fundamental engineering is for Cybertron/GF Starscream and TWW Thundercracker, down to the limited articulation in the lower arms... yes, yes I know Cyb Starscream was based upon TWW Starscream and Don Figuroa helped design the figure a little

Then is it just the same 'hey, its foriegn, and thus cool' mentality over there, the same that many people in the west have for Japanese versions of toys they have locally? It is interesting to note Takara aims their Transformers mainlines at a younger agegroup than Hasbro, hence ridiculous amounts of 'Look at this toy gimmick!' stock footage and chibi/SD comedy.

Didn't that same article also say that Western fans preferred the Japanese Die-cast Binaltechs to the Alternators? Grass is greener on ther other side. 371950[/snapback] Yeah, I don't deny that, but there seems to be some kind of weird, disturbing trend for westerners and other asians to think of Japan = Better. And mistaken belief that the japanese are very content with their 'obviously superior' [versions of the toys]. Well, cost is a major factor. Even with the comparitively high income of the japanese workforce (to go with a high cost of living), Binaltechs are expensive luxury collector toys that are released at a rapid pace.Takara attempted to envigorate the line with Binaltech Asterisk... with an accompanying increase in price. The line bombed. Another factor is that Alternators, being either painted plastic (Silverstreak, Grimlock) or unpainted plastic (everybody else), they are far less susceptible to surface damage and more playable. On a side note, Binaltech appears to be in limbo at the moment. Hirofumi Ichikawa, the number-1 japanese TF fan turned Takara illustraitor/writer, said that the last bunch of bios and backstories he wrote for upcoming (now apparently cancelled BTs) are now no longer required by Takara, suggesting that the toy giant isn't going to release anything BT-wise for awhile. I don't think Takara has even announced Ford GT Mirage and Honda Civic Rumble yet. At Botcon (late September 2005 I believe) Hasbro said they were going to talk about Alternators jets with Takara 'next week', so they're still probably at the conceptual stage at the moment. Then, if they're going for real-world jets, its convincing the various jet fighter manufacturers to give them the licenses.

Okay then.Oh dear, Japanophile Alert. There is a flaw in your argument given facts we know.It is widely acknowledged that the Transformers series originally written in the US, with a US audience in mind, such as the American G1 and US Beast Wars, when dubbed into Japanese, tended to be much more popular in Japan than any of the Japanese-written Transformers series, written with a japanese audience in mind. Yes, real japanese fans confirm this. Imagine that! Its because the people who are into mecha series to such an extent have too much time on their hands to study technical details of things that don't exist.Besides, Transformers aren't mecha. They are ALIEN, SENTIENT, LIVING robots who walk talk, sleep and occasionally eat. They're like humanoids, except robotic and the ability to change form. What's the point of inane technical details and rules for robots who are beyond all realistic (imagined or not) human technology? You're telling me this... about Japan... a country where the expressed purpose of most kids-targeted anime is to FLOG TOYS AS HARD AS THEY CAN?GIMMICK NAME! CATCHPHRASE! HENSHIN! GATTAI! I don't see what the difference is between Transformers being flogged in their cartoon to well, every other japanese cartoon that flogs toys in Japan's tired, unimaginative 'Toy Gimmick Stock Footage' ways. The technical term for this size-changing is called Mass Shifting, or Subspace. They grow or shrink in size by putting their mass into subspace pockets.That or its just a kids cartoon. A kid being Japanese does not make him or her a genius that cannot accept the scientific implausibility of such events happening within a children's cartoon. I can point you to why Japanese kids cartoons have so much 'time freeze stock footage'; scenes where people stand around in the middle of battle yammering away without anybody being hit; characters dying only to be reborn in a new body or new mecha of some sort because they miraculously survived through a Plot Contrivency, all to flog a new toy. Or weird japanese 'comedy' involving chibification or manga-esque expressions. Because they are kids cartoons. Dude. I mean... Dude. - Soundwave is still mocked to this day for turning into a streetlight/mailbox outside of Iacon. Kind of a fan in-joke.- They didn't have the budget (or time) to design Cybertronian robot modes for the characters. Especially as the initial episodes of Transformers were only meant to be a three-part miniseries. - Mass shifting. Or Suspension of Disbelief. Take your pick. - I'll grant you City of Steel was a terrible episode of G1, but then again its a kids cartoon so I can forgive it due to the comedy value of Prime being turned into a crocodile. Hee. You know, if you didn't put so much effort into your argument, and if this wasn't a mostly pro-Japan board, I would think you are just joking.Details GNAW at the japanese and their technically trained minds? What in God's name are you talking about? Because they're japanese they're automatically ultra-logical and technical? That is a hilariously unintentionally racist comment. You've just broadly painted an entire culture as one based upon an outdated ethnic stereotype. Transformers is unsucessful nowadays in Japan because its a Gaijin (foriegn/outsider) series sold as a japanese series, even by Takara, and isn't particularly marketed well by the company, who appears to be unsure of what to do with the line in their home market.In the early 1980s, Takara produced a toyline called Diaclone. They were partially die-cast metal cars, trucks and planes with little magnetic drivers. They could change into robots. Unfortunately for Takara, it was unsucessful and was dying a slow, painful death. Then, a US company called Hasbro acquired the license for these toys (as well as for Takara's Microchange line and others) for a US release. Working with comic publisher Marvel, they came up with a new background, story, characters for the newly unified line and its accompanying comic and cartoon series, and thus was born The Transformers. The series became a huge sucess in the US, and Takara took notice. It was so sucessful that Takara re-imported into Japan in 1985, redubbed the cartoon and released essentially the same toys it had been selling previously. It was a much bigger sucess than Diaclone, Microchange and the other lines. Then, in 1987, Hasbro ended their US Transformers cartoon, and Japan took over creative control for the first time, to make cartoons intended for the japanese market, and popularity started to wane. Whoops. Here's something: Takara admitted in an official interview that JAPANESE FANS PREFERRED HASBRO'S ALTERNATORS OVER THEIR DIE-CAST METAL BINALTECHS SHOCK AND HORROR! I suggest you move to Japan, if you haven't already done so. I'm sure they'll love another gaijin invading them.

Not really - Kawamori's design sketches even have proportional problems, at least compared to the G1 Prime of the past. Short, stubby forearms and a too-wide chest. If it were made in a larger scale, the problems wouldn't be as noticible, but they would still be there. This may be rather obvious, but as it stands, MP Convoy/20th Prime has the more accurate robot mode, and an infinately better truck mode - truck mode is important, given these are 'Transformers', and not 'generic japanese robot'. I'm not sure if it was a good idea to get Kawamori to redesign Convoy, presumebly in a desperate attempt at industry and geek publicity. Because, just like the japanese public in general, traditional japanese mecha designers don't really 'get' the concept Transformers. The idea that these are sentient beings, not human-piloted mecha. This is one of the reasons why Transformers remain relatively unpopular in Japan. Hell, even TAKARA doesn't really understand the concept of Transformers as a fiction, as evident by their hamfisted marketing over the past 2 years.

Shoji Kawamori's Hybrid Style G1 Convoy/Prime from the Wonder Festival 2006 Winter Uploaded by Nevermore for speedier viewing. Photos by yokubarion, originally taken from this site. As originally posted by Nevermore: 'THS-02 was the only TF-related Takara toy on display, the others were MP-B02 Dragon Kaiser and some Microman stuff.' Dengeki Hobby Jan 2006 size comparison with Masterpiece Convoy and Pepsi Convoy My thoughts: Kawamori's redesign of Convoy/Prime, such as it is, suffers greatly from the tiny scale this toy is made in - Prime is roughly 4 inches tall in robot mode. He is too fat in robot mode, and has a very poor truck cab mode. Many thanks to yokubarion and Nevermore!

Naw, TF Classics (or whatever the name of the line will be) is a reworking of classic G1 characters using modern engineering, so they're not reissuing Jetfire. Its speculated that, if this list is accurate, Hasbro might have designed 'Jetfire' using the Skyfire design actually seen on the G1 cartoon.Or maybe even The War Within comic's Jetfire design with the flip-down Valkyrie-style faceplate. Takara never released Jetfire, nor most of the toys from other japanese toylines/cartoons, like Omega Supreme, the Deluxe Insecticons, Roadbuster, Whirl, Skylynx ect. They did, however, release Shockwave.