Archer

One of "them". Has there been a confirmation of the existence of more than one new leader class? Here is to hoping for a sideswipe or better designed prime....a guy can dream

Oh and regarding the kitbash, I think all of you guys are right. Kit looks way to unstable for kitbashing.

I may be being optimistic here, but do you guys believe that with enough modding and utilizing parts from the ROTF leader prime, it would be possible to make that Dual Model Kit prime transformable? It seems from looks as though the ROTF leader and model kit prime share similar looks and proportions, so I was planning on seeing if making the model kit prime transformable (I like the model kit aesthetics a lot better...)

Any reason why Yamato won't make toys for these? Did they learn their lesson with bad-guy mechs after the Q-Rau? If they could keep these at destroid prices I think they'd sell...or are destroids even selling?

Based on what I've heard, as well as the countless amount of destroid sales going on, it is reasonable to say that the destroids are NOT selling well at all. I think that they might have even pulled the plug on the other unreleased destroids as well due to poor sales. With that logic, if destroids don't even sell at a $100 pricepoint, I don't really see how a $100 regult will hold. Maybe it will be better due to its enemy standing, but I can't say for sure....

If market trend shows anything, $100 is a lot to drop on anything, and I, as well as others, would probably prefer to spend it on something that actually transforms rather than a 2 footed sphere

^Isn't this the VF-25 thread? I kid, I kid

I was wondering if anyone took a top (dorsal) picture of the VF-25 V.2 that was displayed? I am really interested in knowing how thin the fighter compares to the actual lineart, as well as the V.1 toy.

The V.2 does look nice, but for some reason, I can't build up as much excitement for it as I do for other Yamato Valks, even though the VF-25 is my favorite design by far. It still feels "off" somehow.....

You will stop.

A little harsh there man

And all I was trying to do was stop people from bullying Gui. But seriously though, I'm sorry, and will stop. There are other places to apply my knowledge. Sorry as well to others that may have been sidetracked or offended by my scientific/statsitical theory...

Yeah...Are we gonna get back on topic or shall this thread be close till there's an actual announcement that yes, a 4th movie has been greenlit, has a director, and a script?

Well, I thought that there has been a greenlight to the existance of a 4th movie, though I don't know of a director or script

And sorry about the science argumentation, though I would say it is very related to the topic at hand, especially if the 4th movie may be a potential reboot. Maybe someone will go ahead with non human designs

Besides, we can all get smarter off these discussions (tangents ). Who doesn't want to learn more about science? It really is awesome to watch the collective brain of MWF come together and show off its pure spectrum and wealth of knowledge I've learned a lot since the start of this thread

But in all seriousness though, I will stop if it is an issue

(Sorry again BTW)

^^Thanks for the quick responses everyone. Looking at reviews of these things though, I've decided to go ahead and look for a Dual Model Kit Optimus Prime. Looks a TON better imho, and maybe with a good amount of modding, I can prod it into a loose truck mode as well. Robot mode is my focus though. The dual model kit prime looks a lot like ROTF leader class prime from pics, so maybe I can use that leader class as an inspiration to make the model kit prime transformable to vehicle mode....

Or maybe I can get someone a lot more talented than me to do it for me

It's okay, you can use my name, I know what I said. Now, why would I mention the flatness of the Earth? Because it sounds as primitive as this statement "So, yeah, in the end, aliens should look like us, at least in the overal shape." which was backed it up with theories of alien physiology based on a *repeated for the 10 millionth time* HUMAN BRAINin an EARTH ENVIRONMENT, that followed OUR PARTICULAR CHAIN OF EVOLUTION. Now, based on some of your later arguments with JBO, you seem alot more intelligent than I assumed which was based this post:

I'm not saying aliens that look like us is impossible, but to say that aliens should look like us because **insert ridonkulous theories here*.......are you serious?!?!? Do you really believe that? Please tell me you're kidding or at least generalizing and that you only beleive that this is possible, but not necessarily true to all (if any) alien life. I mean, you make it sound like intelligent life, alien or not, can only exist in humanoid form. If not, I apologize for the misunderstanding. Those theories would make sense if an alien had a human (or human-like) brain, on a planet with Earth-like qualities but who are we to assume that intelligent life out there has such a brain? I mean, they might, and such a similar planet may exist, but can't we consider the possiblity that intelligent life could exist in another form?

Transformers have a humanoid shape with eyes, a nose and mouth, which is beyond silly, but when I was a 5 year old, it really didn't matter.

This whole argument is a bit silly and pointless to be honest, because it's not very likely that either of us will ever know the answer in our lifetime. "Aliens should look like us" was your statement - I say it's possible, but not necessarily true.

Argument ad ignoratium

In all seriousness though, that is what I mentioned in my post up above supporting Gui. You say (no offense to you btw ) that all of this reasoning is bull because we are basing it on a human evolutionary basis on an Earth specific condition. BUT, thats all we HAVE to base ANYTHING on regarding extraterrestrials. The "What if" argument may seem more logical considering the vast amount of information that we don't know, but truth be told, in pure statistical as well as cogent reasoning, the human based argumentation has a MUCH higher probability of actually being correct.

The day you show us proof of ANY non humanoid living on ANY planet outside of earth, and succeeding on an evolutionary stance, you sir, will have put down every argument placed by both me and Gui, no questions asked whatsoever. But until that day comes, argumentation based on humans and what we know is the most probable and logical, whether it SEEMS logical or not. We may not know 99.99% of information regarding the universe, but basing our theories on the 0.01% that we do know will still be much better logically than placing theories on the 99.99% we don't know. Because while those that trust in the 0.01% trust in SOMETHING, those that wish upon the 99.99% are wishing on NOTHING (I can prove this statistically too. Since that 99.99% can be synonymous to infinity, basing information on infinity means you are basing info on an existant, but purely undefinable number, that, by laymen's terms, does not end. So, the chances your theory is right can be 1/1, 1/2, 1/3....1/infinity, which, by pure statsistics, is zero. Therefore, nothing)

So yeah, we kinda have to put things in perspective of humans as Gui and I have done until we find a succesful non humanoid alien, at which point Gui and I lose hands down

So for those with them, what is the best leader class toy from both the DOTM series, as well as the whole movie line overall. Want to get one to customize, but don't know too much about these figures....

How do they compare, to, say a standard japanese macross release? Better? Worse? I expect costs are much lower due to larger market release, and maybe a bit less engineering...

Thanks whitestar. The nose section is fine, its just one step thats scewing me over. The part where you have to correctly position the nose downward and adjust the position of the attached swivel bar inward as well. I just can't seem to move the swivel bar inward.

And to Actar, my sympathies goes out to you. I am really scared to use the landing gear bays as that *snap* that each door makes when either opening or closing scares the daylight out of me, and I feel as though its broken the joint or snapped off completely, even though it is fine. Why oh why can't they just be normal tension joints? I hate that *snap*

^Ok, hopefully, that will help. It's not like the thing won't stand up or anything, its just that when in GERWALK mode, my subconciuous tells me that it will fall over. It is kinda of nose heavy imo. Also, maybe positioning the feet better will lead to a better pose lol.

All in all, its awesome! Glad i chose this over the yf-29. All that i need now is for someone to show me how to transform that nose/gullet section properly so that I can actually transform to battroid mode...

Fighter isn't bad though

Started transformation, but was unable to get to battroid successfully. That nose/gullet section is ridiculously hard to get right. Can anyone make a video specific to that section?

The toy is sharp, and quite awesome. I have some issues though. Who thought ball joints were a good idea for the ankles? Mine (new) can't even stand effectively in gerwalk mode :/ I'm afraid it will fall over, it's so unstable. Also, are the calf joints are kinda loose as well :/

Really like it though

Finally got mine! Haven't transformed it yet, but it seems really tight, and quite a beautiful piece imo. Didn't even want to transform it due to the beauty of the fighter mode . I had one little issue though. One mine, it came out of the box with one of the flaps which attaches to the shoulder sticking up (it acts to cover up the head fin in fighter mode: those 2 shoulder flaps...). No matter how hard I tried, I could not for the love of anything get that flap to stick back down. Kinda ruined the sleek design for me.

Do you think this is just a factory mistransformation error, or a genuine problem. Its not too bad, just a little pet peeve that ruins the sleekness for me

^actually, we could probably infer that TFs have singular brains inside their heads, considering the countless headshot kills employed in the movies. If they had other nueral processing centers, then they could simply readjust their processing, and continue to live on, but this is not the case is it ? (look up nueroplasticity for further inference)

On the whole science debate, I would agree with Gui on this one. first of all, if anyone noticed, lots of insect, animal, etc. TFs were featured, such as scorponok, which really invalidates the whole argument essentially. Beyond that, Gui is not just throwing around random stuff, those are well established biotheories regarding human development. On my own part, I'd like to add some support as well ( oh boy ). If we recall, TFs, especially the younger ones like sideswipe, were created with a purpose of combat to some extent. now, that would generally elicit designs such as carnivorous animals, prone to combat situations. BUT, at the same time, TFs are an intelligent lifeform capable of greater thought and self - progressive thought.

this is key. Evolutionary theory has demonstrated that one of the most important underbasings for human intelligence development was the undertaking of a bipedal form nearly 50,000 to 100,000 years ago in our evolutionary ancestor, the Australopithecus afarensis. Bipedal stance allowed for an efficient form that was able to adequately disribute net energy within the body to respective components of the body without much energy loss, in things such as transport of resources. Beyond that, blood supply to the brain was enriched and improved as well thanks to a bipedal stance.

The sum total of this allowed for alleviation of first to second tier survival systems, such as the necessity to constantly find food, and gave way to actions such as simple tool development and even food production. This gave way to a growing brain, which lead to self -awareness and higher thought, which defines a "person" today.

If transformers are beings of higher thought, then a similar evolutionary path makes complete sense, considering the importance of bipedal nature, leading to a logical humanoid form. Beyond this, going back to the combat argument, humanoids are also the worlds deadliest animals thanks to tool (weapon) development. This logically translates to the TF world as well, making a humanoid structure quite applicable. Beyond that, we can't go around saying that basing theories off humans invalid, just because "what if aliens...?" . Since we don't know of any aliens, Gui's human based stance makes the most logical sense in terms of pure cogent reasoning. If not, we'd all be guilty of the argumentum ad ignoratium fallacy.

Imho, Gui has had it right based on pure reasoning from the start. so let's not ridicule him eh

Besides, I think more people would complain if TFs were 7 foot walking insectoids.

Well, imho, for the discussion regarding designs for this new movie, I don't think new designs would be a very economical choice for the studio creating the movie, regardless of whether someone thinks they are good are not. The Bayformer designs aesthetics have been so very finely engraved into the mainstream society that anything outside of those aesthetics will probably be shot down by audiences far and wide.

Its much more risky, and has an extremely high probability of being a disaster for the studio responsible for this movie to attempt a new design scheme for the bots. Why waste so much money making new TF's when mainstream society eats these designs up.

Whether we like it or not, I don't think new designs are feasible in this scenario. Bayformers are now TRANSFORMERS. Not the G1 , beast wars, armada, energon, cybertron, or animated prime will be the real prime. Save for the full on hardcore fans, Optimus Prime will from now on always be the Semi truck forming cutlery, as some put it, shown on the big screen.

^^Holy Cow, things have gone far south!! lolz. (I am not sure about that statement though hirohawa)

Anyways, back to the Regult. Has anyone done a non weathered paint scheme or attempted to put LEDs in it? Would like to see some pics of that...

So, any idea on what the next movie may be about? DOTM really tied in a lot of ends....

I can see the potential for unicron, but I don't really see how that will translate to a live action movie, considering he's the size of a moon lol.

I can see it now: "Transformers: Revenge of the Moon"

^Any reason Eugimon? Is it cuz they rub off on the toy, or something else? This is the first I've heard of this...

^Alright, thanks Golden Arms. Lets just hope my VF-19 comes in w/o grease. There were only a few select cases of grease, so i'm hoping I won't have to deal with it...

I am kind of interested in this too. I have a VF-19 Kai coming in, and I've heard reports of grease on the model. Any suggestions on what to use to clear it of grease? Furthermore, would I have to transform the whole thing to get rid of all greasy residues? I ask because I don't want to transform it early on, leaving it in fighter mode, nor do I want to use a chemical that will damage the plastics/paint....

^^Thanks for all the comments above regarding my dilemma. I, in the end, chose to buy the VF-19 kai over the yf-29. It came down to a matter of that I slightly "prefer" the design of the VF-19 over the YF-29, and that I am quite worried about the looseness over time, paint chipping, grease, etc. issues that seem to be cropping up with this release. The VF-19 release seemed much more solid imho, and that cockpit gimmick was enough to push me over the edge

WOOT! Just placed my order for one at HLJ. With FEDEX shipping, it should get here sometime near the end of next week. So excited

Now, to use the time lapse until I get it to actually watch Macross 7

To all the posts above, I do agree with you in that I understand you don't want a carbon copy of G1 prime, but rather something similar. I just threw that pic up there to kind of reference how similar designs from the past wouldn't translate well to now also, I agree with all of you in that Bay shouldn't have been slapping TF names on robots without giving them an accurate personality (eat your heart out jolt) . I am just pointing out that some of the older concepts wouldn't fly. Truth be told, the "cutlery" being spoken of makes more sense to kids nowadays, more so than any reimagining of G1 designs. It just makes more sense to them (us).

By the way, Peter, thanks for the english complements. But yeah, i am in high school, not preschool . Regarding the apologies, I just didn't want to offend or anger anyone. Not my cup of tea to incite arguments really

I always wondered why so many people on MW complain about display space and large boxes. I really never had too much of a problem with larger boxes, or with displaying. Kicker773 has shown me the light about these issues.

Holy COW dude!!! That collection in itself seems to be worth more than someone's house

Do you display all that stuff at the same time? Cuz that would be quite a daunting task, and I would love to see the room if you did!

BTW, any reason you bought so many repeats of stuff I mean, given the chance, I would to, but whats your reason

OK, so this flame war is getting a bit out of hand. I would like to put something into play for everyone to think about though. I am of the "younger" generation. This pretty much means that I wasn't born when the original TF aired. Being who I am though, I did *watch* the original series and movie after I was born with the vastly available subs. Therefore, I think I can put a little into what people of the "youth" want.

First of all, to tell it to you straight, people of my generation or younger (5-6), are not gonna buy a CGI animated G1 prime. I know this sounds like blasphemy to a lot of the older fans, but its the sad (or happy to those that like it) truth of the matter. If I went to a few kids of my age and said "Hey lets go watch some G1 TF, I'd probably be met with a sounding chorus of boo's or worse .

I am truly sorry, but this:

http://www.exchange3d.com/images/uploads/aff3738/Optimus%20Prime%20Transformer%2001/Optimus_Prime_Transformer_(01)_01.jpg

is NOT going to please very many people. Also, those of the older generation need to realize one thing. The kids of today have grown up in an environment chock full of technology. Therefore, the millions of random bits of metal shards put together to look like a robot that transforms seemlessly (while most likely doing some acrobatic moves in the air) into a perfect vehicle will always make more sense to kids than a boxy robot sitting down to become a truck. Seriously.

Beyond that, the designs have to progress with technology as well. If Starscream turned into an F-15 rather than an F-22, that modern feel would be lost immediately. Hate me if you will, but I actually enjoy the Bayverse robots a LOT more than any of the older designs. Why? Because they make more sense to me. A technological race millions of centuries more advanced than humans should not turn into walking boxes. Its just not sensical with the world today. It may have flown with the audience 20 years ago, but not today. Also, in terms of the coloring aspects, I also would have to say that what Bay went with appeals to an audience today. For example, if a Hot Rod character was introduced identical to his G1 counterpart as a red *something* with flames, he'd be met with a hailed chorus of O_O *What were the animators thinking?*. Had he been introduced as a Corvette ZR1, it would make more sense, and appeals to kids my age.

On the other side of matters, I agree that the robots should be made to look somewhat like their G1 counterparts in appearance. Prime and Bumblebee, and to some extent Sideswipe, look the closest to their G1 counterparts, and are some of the most popular characters in the series today. Also, I think the TF all need to be given a personality instead of simple being *cool looking targets that shoot some of the time*. Beyond that though, unfortunately or fortunately, the TF of today is what WILL fly with the audience.

For those that can't accept it, I apologize as I understand it sucks to have your childhood Bayformed, but think about it this way: In the movies you saw as a kid, would you have liked it if they featured Telegrams and P-39s just because your parents' generations had prominently featured that stuff. Whether we like it or not, everything, and I mean everything, will evolve with time. Its just a matter of accepting it for what it is, and appreciating it for the honest attempt behind it. I know for a fact that TF would NEVER have been this popular had the Bayverse never been created.

With that, I'd like to end my speech, and I hope I respected everyone's opinions in the matter at hand (no offense to anyone). Being a younger guy myself, I kind of know what the "mainstream crowd" like from the inside...