Noyhauser

Oberth isn't but the Carrier and Stealth cruiser (albeit in a refit form I think) are.

I agree, the model doesn't look as nice as Thorsten's... the intake looks just wrong.

Slight extension of the topic as people here seem to know more about Komiria and Miku, they might know more about the Megaroad 01. What is the source that states the loss of communication with the SDF-2 Megaroad 01 in 2016? I have seen the mention on Macross compendium but there are no further references.

In contrast: in the Frontier opening the MR01 fleet is shown to have taken a clockwise route around earth and still moving towards the galactic center. Doesn't show it stopping anywhere just moving forward. There is also a second (unnamed fleet leaving from Eden) later crossing it's course and passing it en route towards the galactic center. That must have been way past 2016.

I think its generally agreed that the Frontier map is not chronologically accurate.

Enter Nekki Basara.

Yoooo! The Mountain! The Galaxy! I'll move you today! Listen to my song!

Better here than anywhere else...

BOMBA!!

No, the point is that this is a completely illogical argument, because its apparent that the PD never JUST fought with the Zentredi. They created a massive army of their own, the Supervision army to fight the PC and the Zentredi. While yeah the PD couldn't be everywhere at one time, they didn't have to be: They created the SA to be their own massive army of mindless soldiers. Its clear that the PD could simply destroy entire zentredi fleets, while SA held the territory they had already taken. And one shouldn't simply discount the SA, they were still a formidable force several thousand years after the PD were sealed away, able to mount offensives that destroy large parts of the Zentredi weapon building infrastructure. Given their longevity and effectivenss, its clear the SA must be self-sustaining (either through their own production of clones or by capturing soldiers) and would have posed an almost insurmountable threat to the PC and Zentredi.

Also, I'm also not convinced by march's arguments. First off, its not just big grabil who is the problem. I think its episode 14 or something we see Sivil trash a Guantanamo carrier in a matter of seconds. Taking down something like a Boldozaa fleet command ship doesn't seem like much a stretch for the small Grabill and Sivil, with the fleet remnants being killed by Grabil. The episode 26 comment only adds further credence to such a point.

Second point: I'm pretty sure that after losing 85% of their population to the PD, the Protoculture would try to do more than just seal them away in a distant planet. I mean if they could conjure up massive Zentredi fleets with enough firepower to destroy the PD, what sense would it be to keep them around, when their followers could possibly come back to free them? Lets also consider the thematic argument here about macross 7. The whole point of the series is that weapons can't solve all problems. You have an unchanging main character who's sole purpose is to show that the power of song will help to overcome adversaries. Throughout the story, the increasingly destructive weapons are used against the PD to almost no effect whatsoever against them. Its only Basara's song that creates a resolution. So to now argue "oh if they had MORE weapons, well then they would defeat the PD" throws itself in the face of the overbearing main theme of the series itself. This is why I think most people here are finding real trouble accepting the recommendations.

In the end, I think its pretty safe to say that if the PC didn't have Anima Spiritia, It and its Zentredi forces would have been annihilated by the Protodeviln and their Supervision army cohorts.

Like I said, I don't see it happening. It would literally take years for Sivil to even attempt to to absorb spiritia from a fleet of five million warships and she wouldn't have the time. And the Protodeviln were never invincible. The chronology specifically states during the civil war/invasion era of the Protoculture the Zentradi were only partially successful in fighting the Protodeviln because their non-interference directives against the Protoculture hampered their ability to fight effectively. Without that caveat, the scales we're dealing with are way beyond what the Protodeviln could hope to defeat. Sure Britai's Adoclass fleet would probably suffer defeat, much like other small fleets such as Macross 7. They simply wouldn't don't the firepower. One or two super dimension energy cannons isn't going to be that effective. But 5 million? That's a whole other story. Besides, Varauta 4 and most of the Protodeviln would be wiped out in the first strike anyway. Whatever Varauta forces remained would be lambs to the slaughter.

I get what you're saying March, but I think you're wrong. It never says the Protodeviln were vulnerable at all or even hints at it. Everything suggests they were effectively invulnerable. What the Protodeviln did was create the supervision army from captured Zentredi and Protocultures, which allowed them to control the territory they took. This was what the Zentredi primarily fought against, not the Protodeviln. While the Zentredi were likely on an equal footing to the Supervision Army, they likely had no chance vs the Protodeviln. I actually doubt they had any ability to destroy them. After losing 85% of their population, the Protoculture didnt' destroy the PD, they sealed them in a planet. And the supervision army wasn't ineffective either. They were able to destroy the Glaug weapon plants several thousand years after the war. With the PD invulnerable and able to trash whole fleets, while being able to build their own fleets, it was only a matter of time before they overcame the Zentreadi war machine. In the end it was the anima spiritia which seemed to be the only thing that was effective against the PD, which finally won the war for the Protoculture.

I'd have to watch it again to be sure but I'm pretty sure its because of sneaking in Sheryl in the previous episode.

Something about this episode made me revisit something. We all know how Grace met Leon in her manly form. In this episode, she switches back to her female form, presumably without much modification because she's wearing the same clothes. (There are cuts here, so it's hard to tell exactly what happened.)

This makes me think that Grace doesn't have multiple bodies, but transforms the same one. After we saw the thing she did with her tentacle arm, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

This is something I want to look at more closely, once the subs come out.

You're only now realizing that I mean the woman can project images for other people to watch, it stands to reason that she can holographically alter her appearance as well.

Glad I was wrong. But now I'm betting that everyone on Robotech.com will despise it.

Well one person over there at least. I joined the boards just to watch how they try to justify bashing Frontier when HG releases masterpieces like Shadow Chronicles.

The VF-4 was never pulled from duty by the VF-5000. "Complement" is a much better word.

In Egan's words:

http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?show...st&p=447171

Now I would say that the VF-4 was well received since more than 8000 were made. But you know, price tag...or sweetness? Price tag? Or sweetness? The kids at UNS probably fulfilled their wet dream with the VF-4 until UN HQ saw their budget and decided to make some cutbacks.

Yeah, I meant to reedit that... It was strong a wording. However I don't think it invalidates my argument. As for your second point I don't think its at all clear that the VF-4 was "sweetness." Having big guns isn't all that, thats a very simplistic view of fighter design, or what the airforce looks for. Just because something is big and heavy and carries a big gun does not make it a better fighter; there is a whole range of issues that are involved that makes it a good fighter, issues like; how much maintenance does a fighter require (serviceability, and sortie rate), its maneuverability, number of fighters for given price, observability. With the exception of the last category (and maybe the first category), we can make fairly good assertions about the VF-4 vs other fighters. You can see an illuminating parallel to US Airforce thinking prior and post vietnam. Prior to vietnam you had a lot of heavy fighters with heavy missile loads, essentially interceptors. Afterwards you had a push for cheaper, faster, lightweight fighters like the F-16 and YF-17/F/A-18.The same thoughts probably followed round the VF-4 vs the VF-5000, VF-9 and the VF-11. No fighter except the VF-14 vampire, the ONLY other fighter to use lasers as its primary armament is as heavy as the VF-4 (Extrapolating from the FZ-109's weight). Every fighter afterwards are far lighter and apparently more maneuverable.

Edit: I should also say that I'm not entirely sure about all of this, its merely one extrapolation based on the best evidence available. Like March I find it interesting from a personal standpoint, since its interesting to track what sort of defence management decisions UN Spacy made on production and operations, given the situation they faced.

Just keep in mind that Correlation does not mean Causation. It can just as easily be that the lasers and the high cost of the VF4 was coincidental.

Nice use of the social sciences, but we have much corroborating evidence to show that the lasers were the problem. March has already made a conclusive case above that the lasers were the cause of the fighter's very large weight increase, indicating it was a significant part of fighter's design, requiring a vast increase in weight. The Cost of the fighter was seen as exceptionally high, requiring two new fighters to supplement it: the VF-5000 and the VF-9, before its full replacement, the VF-11 arrives.The next point, and this is the clincher, none of the mainline fighters after the VF-4, use the same weapon loadout. The major difference between the VF-4 and the VF-5000 is that its not carrying a large laser. The same goes for the VF-11. The only fighters that do use laser weaponry as its main armament are the VF-14 and the VF-27. However neither are UN Spacy's mainline fighter. I think much of the evidence indicates the laser systems were problematic for the UN Spacy.

you're making a big assumption that the weight is due solely on the beam weapons... there's a correlation but no evidence of causality.

Anyways, you guys are missing one huge advantage a laser main weapon affords... staying power. With unlimited ammunition, a valks time on the battlefield isn't limited to the valk's ability to deliver ordinance but on the pilot's endurance. This makes actions like sending in a squad behind enemy lines much more feasible since they don't have to worry as much about conserving ammunition or attempting to resupply.

As for not giving ballistics the benefit of the doubt... who says I'm not? I completely accept the fact that the ammunition in macross can be reconfigured in the span of a couple of days to be able to become 100% effective against armor/materials that they were 0% effective against earlier. I even accept that they have some sort of magic auto calibration system that works 100% of the time they mount and unmount the gunpod (the phantom's gunpod was magnificently inaccurate at first)... remember, given the distances involved, something like .05 degree off alignment could have a HUGE effect on the trajectory of the rounds, spray or no spray... And I still fail to see how any spray at point of origin is going to mean a better chance to hit the target at range, as a tiny deviation at the start of the trajectory would mean that the round travels meters off target.

given a valk's ability to remain light weight and carry shield emiiters which have been shown to be energy intensive and be able to use those PPB for extended duration, I see no reason why a similarly lightweight power source couldn't be used for beam weaponry. And who says a laser weapon can't be in the form of a gunpod? All you need is a power coupling in the grip or better, an onboard power source.

Also, if you want to talk about versitility, a laser weapon that can dynamically shift its frequency would be very useful for burning down different targets.

Yes but staying power is only one aspect of the equation. The other side, probably the more important question is economics and maintenance, and we know the VF-4 was pulled from frontline service and replaced with the VF-5000 precisely because it was too expensive. If thats the case, its almost certain the VF-4 was a very complex beast, which likely required significant maintenance to keep flying. In the VF-4's case the "newest" system it carries is the lasers, which are its primary armament. Everything else could have been replaced or upgraded: engines, rocket packs, avionics ect. Now yes Strike Valks carried the RO-X2A Beam Cannon, but its not the primary weapon system of the fighter. If the Beam Cannon failed on the Strike Valk, a pilot has the gunpod, head lasers and many micro missiles. The VF-4 is far more dependent on its lasers; Beside the conformal medium range missiles, thats its only weapon. That suggests to me that the laser was likely very expensive and difficult to maintain, compared to other fighters systems.

If I'm right, then this explains why the VF-4 wasn't well received. Colony missions required relatively low maintenance aircraft: they have limited resources once they leave Earth and the Factory satellite. Its nice if the VF-4 can stay on the battlefield for a long time; it doesn't matter squat if the thing is a hangar queen, and not able to fly for a mission on the day its needed because its requiring maintenance. With VF-4 squadrons too expensive to keep flying, UN Spacyswitched over to the VF-5000 or stayed with the VF-1 until the VF-11 came online. Note that also the VF-11 and VF-5000 is a direct descendent of the VF-1, in terms of weapon loadout; they use gunpods, fast packs and a barrage of reaction warheads.

This to me suggests there were significant problems with operating large scale beam weapons on fighters, and the VF-4's design ideas were deemed to be unsuitable for the needs of the UN Spacy.

I think unlike other Bandai Macross models, this one can be turned into a proper fighter with a minimal amount of DIY modeling. I still have high hopes they'll go down the line to the Q-Reas if the sales figures are alright for the VF-25s.

Hmm I'm not too sure about that; the air intake area looks terrible; and its gotten worse in successive photos.

However, I think its battroid looks pretty good (probably the primary mode they designed it for), though it might have a case of the rickets, based on the camera angle.

From what I've read in various Japanese sites, the feeling I got was that most Japanese fans WANTED the kit to be transforming and EXPECTS Bandai to create a transforming kit with quality that is on-par with MG Gunpla kits. Now some here might say Gundam models are not model kits or that their kits are up to Hasegawa quality but that's beside the point. I think the idea amongst some fans is that - if the model doesn't transform, it's not a perfect representation of a Valkyrie (a fighter plane that transforms).

Good to know, So at what point does the "transformation sequence" get to trump realism? Because I'm looking at this model and from what I've seen of other bandai products I have bought in the past, I'm seeing something that doesn't strike me as a "perfect representation" of valk. It strikes me as model with a bunch of compromises which is now in essence a glorified toy for beginner modelers.

Personally I think it's a good idea for these new Valk kits to be Gunpla-like. It has the potential of bringing in more fans to buy the kits. Lets face it, many fans simply don't have the skills to make a Hasegawa kit. The more fans buy these kits, the better the chances for more Macross anime in the near future.

Thats nice and all, but that still doesn't do anything for me as a modeler. I and the other modelers on here are consumers as well and we have a right to say what we want. Call me crazy, but I'm willing to bet there is more than a couple japanese modelers sitting at their computer right now saying the same things we are.

If they want fans to come, make a toy with EMSIA or Zeonography level quality or something. Instead the toy fans are looking like they will shafted with the 1/60 DX, just like the true modelers are getting this bad compromise of a model.

I hope I get proved wrong, but I'm not counting on it.

No one, barring pilots i have not seen in action in Macross 7 or Frontier could defeat the Ghost.

Well in Digital Mission VFX, its pretty easy to do so. A couple of missiles, a bit of gunpod and its over... However Guld had none of those advantages, he had just come out of a knock down drag out fight with Isamu, having expended all of their missiles and other stores. Basically all he had was his arm lasers to fight with. If he wanted to win, he had no choice but to sacrifice himself in the process.

And whether he raped myung (I don't believe he did) or not, it doesn't matter. Guld sacrificed himself in order to atone for the sins of his past; it was his penance. That is what makes it truly heroic; he learned from his failings and sought to be a better human being in a completely selfless act.

If this is a question about the most heroic pilot, then Guld must be on the list. Guld, in an act of selflessness and redemption for his previous sins makes the ultimate sacrifice in a horribly painful manner. He saves not only his friends, but also humanity itself... he essentially wills himself beyond all human limits, to protect others, despite his flaws. Its a tragic story, which magnifies how heroic he is. Its unrivaled by any other character, save for maybe Roy in DYRL.

ah, that's a very good point Noyhauser. I was referring more to America being stationed in Japan and being expected to take the brunt of any real threat to her. But yeah, america's refusal to sell the F-22 to even our most trusted ally nations is pretty interesting.

I posted above a financial times article on the subject that gives a fairly good overview on the situation.

I gotta ask; Do you work at Jane's?

No but I work for a different academic outfit that does somewhat similar work, just not as big or focused on military affairs as Janes is. JSDF is a pet interest of mine though, so I keep an eye on it using the resources we have.

If you ever get a chance to flip through the yearly IISS Military Balance, do so (at a university), you'll find it an really interesting publication.

which is a tenth of what the USA spends. It's a big step from number 1 to number 2... considering all of the EU spends a little more than half of what the US spends.

Referring back to the question of why Japan isn't fielding "high tech" homegrown fighters, consider this quote from wikipedia regarding the F-22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor :

By the time all 183 fighters have been purchased, $34 billion will have been spent on actual procurement, resulting in a total program cost of $62 billion or about $339 million per aircraft. The incremental cost for one additional F-22 is around $138 million;[4] decreasing with larger volumes. If the Air Force were to buy 100 more F-22s today, the cost of each one would be less and would continue to drop with additional aircraft purchases.[3]

62 billion dollars, or 14 billion dollars more than the entire Japanese military budget for 1 year. Or, little less than a 1/10th of the budget for American military expenditures for 1 year.

So, other than nationalism and to quench fanboy desires for cool military aircraft, what reason does Japan have to invest that sort of money when they can just reap the benefits of America's investment?

Well Japan is in the market to get a new fighter to replace its aging F-4js... but its been putting off the decision for over a decade. The Air Force hasn't been a major priority for Japan in the past ten years, besides the ongoing F-2 and the Tanker project. First is the overall stagnant growth in Japanese economy, which has limited the government's ability to purchase big ticket items. Second, the Japanese military is facing a different drain on its budget: Operational missions. For the first time, the Defense Ministry needs to balance paying for combat operations in the Indian ocean and elsewhere with procurement. Finally, the airforce hasn't been the target of recapitalization to the extent the Navy has. The Navy is getting a whole slew of helicopter destroyers (And their helix), new destroyers and submarines. Moreover the government has invested heavily into Theater and National missile defence programs, which has put an even greater strain on the procurement budget. So for ten years the airforce has been forced to make do with the F-2 program. Since the F-4 decision can't be put off anymore, they are now shopping around for a replacement. With Congress refusing to sell the F-22 to Japan, it looks as if the Eurofighter might come into being as the next generation of Japan's air defence fighters.

Thought you guys might like this article in the Financial Times on the F-22 vs the F-35... though the details might not all be new.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d7d3b01c-535f-11...0077b07658.html

Ehhhem .... pls refer to Macross Zero. Allusions to global war with current War on Terrorism.

Not to mentioned .... real world fighters analogy ..... with F-14s & MiG-29s.

Nimitz-class carrier & Arleigh Burke vessels.

Blackhawk.

UN as in United Nations.

F-117 Nighthawk on bombing run.

The still of matte pic showing definitely GIs rounded up suspected terrorists.

There's enough real world in that ....

And that means absolutely nothing. According to the Macross timeline, the Cold War never ended until the ASS-1's crash. Sales of Su-27 post 1990 are almost certainly not going to happen in their timeline because most of them occurred in due to the end of the cold war and hte Russian export market. Had the Soviet Union continued to exist, they would have never exported the SU-30 to China, Algeria, Indonesia, Venezuela, or Malaysia, because all of these states were against the USSR in one way or another. Also, all the things you mentioned above are Cold War designs, and one (the F-14) doesn't exist in our 2008 period.

So no, It does make any sense at all to bring them up.

Eh, I'm somewhat more loose with the labeling of kits. Kawamori isn't really sure about canon, so I wouldn't be a stickler on what was where. I believe he himself has stated that the reality sits between both. For example, I kinda think Fast-Packs on VF-1s probably existed during most of the TV-timeline. While that might conflict with the Boobyduck episode, its difficult to imagine how the Valkyries could effectively operate in space otherwise.

That doesn't mean I'm also not anal about realism at all, but I like making realistic what ifs. I've got a couple of VF-1s in alternate schemes, and I'm finishing a F/A-18E in UN Navy colors carrying a single RMS-1 a set of AMM-1s, and a few other missiles; something from the Anti-UN Uprising. I think its highly realistic, but its not exactly canon.

Stop sniping sellers on here? Two sets recently I wanted had your YGPM before I could reply.

Not bitter (okay maybe a little bit)

Parallel Works #4 (of 7) is out! It's probably my favorite so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_g49VVhiDg

Agreed... that was fantastic especially when that is the best track on the OST; I worried they can't top that one.

Does it require assembly and painting? With toy companies calling their toys "kits" I don't know what to expect anymore.

Yes, though somewhat less than a typical Hasegawa kit. HLJ claims the kits need glue, but they fit fairly well without it; It was possible to get a decent model without alot of work on the Jigabachi, but not the Hellhound because of its cockpit, among other things.

My guess is that the Hannibal would be closer to the Jiga in regards to difficulty. Its still a model, though less difficult than the standard kind.

Olivers: you can tell your friend that alot of people really like the line, and I'd love to see more of it. Their choices have been great, and I'm on pins and needles to see what they come up with next.

New pic of what I suppose is Kotobukiya's Hannibal kit:

Yes! More Patlabor goodness from Kotobukiya, and in 1/72! It might be the UN Variant of the Labour shown in the movie (It says PKO: Peace Keeping Operations) yet who knows.

One thing people haven't mentioned is a good putty/sealer. Its one of the most critical supplies you can buy, since you use it to fill in nasty seam lines. Personally I use two products: Tamiya basic putty to fill in larger gaps and Gunze Mr Surfacer (1000 is a good all around number) to fill in smaller seams. You can get it from HLJ, but I've heard that its getting difficult to get it from U.S. suppliers. There are some domestic alternatives, which others can speak to, just don't buy the testors stuff that comes in the grey tube.