Freiflug88

I was talking more about using the actual Macross/Robotech storyline in the LAM. I know BW has rights to the derivatives model and charaterwise, but Tatsunko and HG do have the rights to the actual show itself. There in lies a big grey area that I see. Robotech's script was edited from the Macross show which is owned by Tatsunko and not copied word for word by BW's Macross script. Often these grey copyright issues are either settled or won by the side with the most money for good lawyers. Whats more it is easy for WB to argue that they made a Robotech movie with the Robotech storyline rights acquired from HG and that a issue over the plagiarism of Macross's storyline be between BW and HG. Now as for the derivative rights of the animated mecha and charater appearances, I don't think all of them would work in BW favor necessarily. Only truly unique designs such as the Macross, Destroids and Monster mecha, zentradi ships, and UN Spacey uniforms are inexcusably BW designs. The 30ft humanoid aliens with different skin and hair tones, aircraft carriors in space and as giant robot fists, singing chinese girl, 80s hairstyles/clothing styles are not unigue designs from BW though. I also doubt that BW transforming f-14 design rights will mean anything in court considering that General Dynamics and Grumman are the real owners of the F-14 design.

No doubt the plan is to follow Batman the Dark Knight and the animated Gotham knights plan: release LAM first then release Direct to video animated movie in the period between LAM getting pulled from theaters and put on DVD. http://www.canmag.com/nw/12820-robotech-mi...ar-alfred-gough That is mostly likely speculation on Hollywood Reporters part and not an actually statement from someone at WB. Lawrence Kasadan just finished the script he was paid to write and left because he has no other role in making the movie. ItWriters are paid to write pages of scripts and nothing else unless they are also doing some other role such as producing. Its not the "bandwagon to the stars" Macross storyline that won out over Robotech's "humanity verus alien invaders" storyline per say. The universal appeal was in the characters and their back stories rather then the broad storyline itself. HG had no problem in creating a humans versus aliens battle story for R:SC, its with the characters that they utterly fail with. I wonder if WB execs really know the truth of Macross and the copyrights that BW has in Japan? Perhaps HG's lies that they own "all the rights to Robotech" have gotten to their heads. Come to think of it the original Robotech series could be used in WB defense. After all it will be harder for Big West to argue in court that WB is accountable for plagiarizing the Macross storyline on the grounds that WB was remaking the Robotech series as written by Carl Macek in which they were given copyrights by HG. Whats more since its been about 24 years since Robotech was created its long over due for BW to take Carl Macek to court over editing Macross into the original Robotech. Also consider things from BW's point of view. There legal battles for control over Macross in America didn't go as well as they had hoped. Do you think they would be willing to throw a bunch of money to sue WB in an expensive trial for making a Robotech LAM movie that shows influences from Macross? I mean do you really think BW would risk a lot of Mac Frontier profits in an expensive legal fight with WB over a Live Action Robotech franchise that will be no more competition to the Macross franchise then the lastest Star Trek movie will be. Even if the Robotech LAM was a complete rip-off of Macross it would not hurt Macross at all. Japanese fans won't stop being Macross fans just because a LAM has rip-offed off the Macross movie, and HG blocking Macross from leaving Japan anyways so there is little to fight for in a legal battle with WB. Plus, if a legal dispute does erupt the worst case scenario for WB is that they lose alot of money stalling BW in court rather then making a cheaper settlement outside of court with them. With that in mind Zach Snyder should direct the LAM Robotech! He would do everything possible to stay loyal to Macross, hell I bet he would consider making the LAM movie into a Live action DYRL fansub if was at the helm for Robotech.

You forget Lawrence Kasden who wrote Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and Raiders of the Lost Ark penned a script for RT as well. Its too early for directors and cast with film still in preproduction, and Tobey is the producer and said so himself that he will most likely stay behind the camera rather then in front of it. Are you crazy "Robotech" is about as poor performing and open to new creative direction property as you can get. Yeah Batman and Robin were a low Hollywood benchmark, but there were the Frank Milliar, Tim Burton, and Bruce Tim incarnations that were widely successful to draw from and compare to. Robotech on the other hand has the Shoji Kawamori, Carl Macek, and Tommy Yune incarnations. Which man to you guys want WB to choose from? I bet its one of the two Asian guys right.

I would think that the guys at HG would instinctively know that Macross is the heart of Robotech and is the Saga that could be best adapted into a mainstream movie. Mr. DeSanto does have a point about Robotech not being a household name, but that should not be problem unless HG does something really stupid like advertise Robotech LAM only on Robotech.com for Robotech fans to see. The millions of parents who only knew of the superheros Batman and Superman, still took their kids to see Ironman and Spiderman after seeing the trailers with a pg-13 label broadcasted daily. One thing to keep in mind is that WB is the one with the creative reins of the movie. Batman had new mecha designs and drastic revisions from the comic book stories: the batmobile, trained by Ras al ghul for several years, and no Lazarus Pits. Despite these differences the movies were loyal to the characters and the story wasn't dumbed down, but compressed for movie adaption. So a live RT could work well with redesigns and revisions, but as for how unfaithful an adaption of Macross this could turn out to be is up in the air. I am betting that WB will use the love triangle plot and some of the drama could turn out to be somewhat faithful to the Macross we know in several regards. On the other hand if the Transformers LAM crew from Paramont were doing the Robotech movie... We would no doubt get a dump Jack Archer story that is all about him killing Zentradi, joking that he is "Jack the giant killer", hooking up with a lady friend of his without the dramatic love triangle, and a stupid "the future of humanity is so bright I need shades" speech at the end.

Maybe Treiz was lost because he never saw a Pokemon evolve. Honestly, though Ai-kun became so ugly after his metamorphis that I didn't notice any arms, I wanted Alto to have just shot at him through Ranka no less when she didn't get out of the way. Now why does the RT narrator always get all the complaints? The Macross narrator also made a habit of stating the obvious.

I meant when comparing the MOVIES Robotech SC and Macross DYRL which are both around 90 mins long (DYRL 115, RSC 88), DYRL wins hands down. Its not a fair comparison between a 36 episode series with plenty of room for drama and character development to movies that can only work the length of 3-4 episodes. Robotech's success from the beginning can be attributed that it is the only game in town. In 1985 Robotech was the only intelligent action cartoon with any real drama and serialized episodes on American TV. As for directing there is no comparison. The guys at HG had never really created a movie before, hence they made the common rookie mistake of trying to fill-in everything with dialogue rather then engaging the audience that is smart enough to fill-in gaps and realize whats happening. EDIT: Insanely detailed CGI jets yes, but at the cost of really standing out against the drawn cell characters. Though the CG turned out really bland and was rendered horribly, Robotech SC was actually closer to MacF in the blending of CG and Cell drawn charaters in some regards. BTW anyone know what software was used for Robotech SC? I know Zero used used Maya, Max, and XSI and I am guessing Satelight likely stuck with the newer versions of the same software for Frontier.

Its because we Macross fans have incredibly high standards thanks to Macross DYRL. I watched the 85 robotech episodes then I watched Shadow Chronicles and I enjoyed watching the movie. It wasn't until I had watched DYRL for a few times and later rewatched Shadow Chronicles that I noticed it was crap. EDIT: Funny you should say that. Personally, I saw the character and mecha CGI quality in the first Zero episode to be only marginally better then in RSC, it was the beautiful backgrounds in Zero that wins hands down in the visually over RSC for me. The LAM only competes against MacF in the hearts of Macross fans. Besides those same Macross fans will download pirated Macross fans and then watch the LAM in theaters to see something vaguely Macross. Financial Score: Robotech LAM: Pool of Macross/Robotech fans and mainstream moviegoers MacF: A few loyal fans who pay for import DVDs

HG received numerous offers for a Robotech movie from other studios. It wasn't until the success of Transformers and WB's large success with Batman that HG gave them the rights to film Robotech. I heard that the Transformers toyline alone more then paid for the movie so no doubt a potential Robotech toyline is on HG and WB minds' as well. True, Hollywood has never really made a giant mecha bandwagon. Probably because they are too lazy to animate them.

Considering that Tobey Mcquire spend wads of his own money obtaining the rights to film Robotech from HG I am sure he going to see to it that WB puts alot of effort into the movie. Just look how much fanboy Zach Synder fought for a faithful adaption on Watchmen. Seriously all Tobey has to do is say "I spent a fortune getting the rights to this deal and Harmoy Gold does not give refunds so I want to see as much effort that was put in Dark Knight and Watchmen put into this." What is anime, comics, or cartoons means little to Network Executives. To them they all: 1. Have an established fanbase 2. Are a great source for inspiration aka ripping off of established 3. Have visual appeal, in Robotech's case Itano circuses, space battles, transforming F-14s, etc.

Indeed, the live-action movie is HG best hope considering that not only are LAMs more mainstream in America, but WB is putting the movie together with there own money and creative direction to boot. This is great because even with the LAM designs still up in the air, the actual live-action adaption of the characters and atmosphere that drew fans to the original anime and Robotech is a creative issue not a legal one.

I will always have an interest in Macross. I often find myself re-watching parts of the original SDF, DYRL, PLUS, and Frontier. Occasionally I do watch Zero, Two, and Seven though. If god forbid a new Macross series was "Robotech 3000" bad I might watch it once for the lols and appreciate the classic Macross all the more. So I say rather then lose interest in Macross fans would simply turn back to the classics even more.

The video with the guying screaming "I want to see RICK HUNTER" right? Its no surprise they focused on the most eccentric fans in there 30s. Trust me most teenagers who are into anime are not into Robotech and even the older Macross. While waiting in line at Anime Weekend Atlanta of 2007 for the guest panel with Noburo Ishiguro as the guest speaker I started talking to several other people in line. The younger half of the people there were all: "I never heard of Macross or Robotech" "I don't watch crappy 80s anime" "I am not a mecha fan" "I never knew Macross Plus/Zero had a prequel/seguel." On the other hand the older crowd knew exactly what Macross and/or Robotech was and had fond memories of the series. There are also the rare fans who grew up with Robotech, have seen DYRL, Plus, Seven, etc, but have yet to seen the original Macross and series that Robotech was born from. I have a friend who is just such a fan and I am eager to see if watching the orginal Macross puts a dent in his nostalgia aka obsession for Robotech. Let me put his obsession into perspective for you guys, loaning me his portable green screen kit that costs at least 2 grand isn't a problem, but he won't even let one of his best friends that he has known for years, who is also a director in charge of getting anime for the screening rooms at Cons, burrow his Robotech Original (not Remastered) dvdset.

I never knew that feeling. Was never really on the internet a lot until I got a T3 connection in my college dorm freshman year. Thats when I discovered youtube and since I was an Aerospace Engineering major I of course ending up running a search for jets. Somehow I found this Japanese Macross Zero AMV and I was all this is "awesome its like a Japanense version of Robotech in 3d!" Soon I was downloading all the Macross Zero episodes and realizing the irony of my statement as I learned the the origins of Macross through wikipedia. Yeah, this Robotech debates must be the real-life incarnate of the Robotech "Circle." Fans debate until they come to the realization that there is little we can do about HG licensing Macross blah blah blah. Then get disappointed when the latest Macross won't cross the Pacific, new angry fans join in, and discussions on the HG license debate start again. Here is some more great Macross news I am sure you will enjoy reading... ####NSFW! Warning click at your own risk. #### ####NSFW! Warning click at your own risk. #### 1. Klein rumored "expansion" for the Frontier movie http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/01/11/m...for-klan-klein/ 2. Another kind of Macross Frontier movie being released... http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/12/24/s...orn-parody-due/ 3. New Macross Frontier singles released with erotic CD jackets covers http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/12/23/m...ro-cds-on-sale/ ####NSFW! Warning click at your own risk. #### ####NSFW! Warning click at your own risk. ####

Unfortunately there really isn't any new news on the matter just fan speculation. Still as a new comer to this copyright case it fascinates me and its something to look into while waiting for the MF movie and the Robotech movies. Till then we can only wait and see if anything happens when Harmony Gold's rights from Tatsunoko expire or if BW decides to spend a lot of cash in a legal battle with Harmony Gold directly.

Also looked at some International Intellectual Property Rights and found The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works: This is probably what binds HG from using Macross derivatives in works after Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles. Under this BW still has all the rights for the Macross designs, story, etc. in every country that honors the Berne Convention as they have the Japanese copyrights which must be honored in the U.S. and they have not disclaimed their rights to derivative works.

My bad. I should have noticed that earlier and not jumped the gun. Since HG was first to trademark that explains everything. I did more digging on BW verus Tatsunko and indeed it started in Feburary 2001. I also found this to be quite interesting: http://www.toyboxdx.com/rumble_plus/042702-hg.html

Sony was just the first example that popped in my head. Yes, there are USA subsidiaries but in the end they all have to overcome the language barrier to communicate with their parent companies in Japan.

Macross was the one who actually referenced the earlier Star Wars not the other way around. Who could forget the Grand Cannon sequence that turned the earth into a Death Star?

BW had no trouble at all with the "Foreign" government processes here in the States considering: 1. Its very common for Japanese to study English or at the very least find translators who know English. How else would Sony be doing business in the States hmm? 2. After WWII the Marshal Plan not only rebuilt Japan, but rewrote its Constitution and laws to be a copy of America's so Japan's government processes are more or less the same. 3. BW was able to apply the US trademarks in early 2001 shortly after the Japanese Supreme Court settled the trademarks in there favor. As I mentioned in an earlier post: I know a retailer who got boxes of movies imported from the Philipines to try and retail them here in the states only to have the new trademarked releases confiscated by US inspectors who would check the imported packages time after time. Contrary to your belief the US government will take responsibility for helping to defend a trademark, but only if you put in the effort to register your trademark claim to the proper authorities. Its no different then the common sense to call the cops about a criminal in your house otherwise the cops will have no idea that your in danger. You have to be active in a product area to register a trademark, hence HG only has 5 trademarks for Macross. (BW had 10 Macross + 5 Macross Plus) In order to renew a trademark, however all you need is: So BW could have simply filed an affidavit with a simple excuse as to why they were not active in a product type, its not like they had to constantly release Macross t-shirts if they wanted to keep their Macross clothing trademark. So the idea that BW would be simply overwhelmed by these trademarks is impossible when all BW needed do to was mail, fax, or even email a several documents once a year listing how the trademark is currently being in use or not. Now a word to BW. You understood the rules, the language, and weren't even required to keep products in the US market. You just abandoned the rights after a year, as if our beloved Macross was hooker on the street. Thanks to you HG is now the Macross pimp in the states, but at least now I don't have any shame for raping BW's Macross Frontier franchise through torrenting. And don't give me no BS about exploiting your women either, after putting erotic images of Sheryl and Ranka on a car for advertisement: ####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.#### ####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.#### http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/10/14/macross-ero-itasha/ ####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.#### ####Warning click at your own risk. Linked website is borderline NSFW.####

Indeed many vendors were afraid of HG, but the Trademark search results show that BW had abandoned all of its US trademarks of Macross by 2002 allowing HG to start picking them up. Like it or not this would have given HG a legal right to bar Macross imports from retailers. One of the listed advantages of owning a Trademark is "The ability to file the U.S. registration with U.S. Customs and Border Protection to prevent importation of infringing foreign goods" according to http://www.uspto.gov/smallbusiness/tradema...egistering.html. I have also been pondering about the fact that e-tailers received legal threats and no follow-up legal action was taken. No doubt HG simply didn't have the resources for expensive legal battles to go against retailers or to probably even argue over trademarks in federal court with BW. Again signs point to BW as simply abandoning their Macross rights which is frustrating considering that: Whats more: In other words if HG had applied for Macross trademarks when BW possessed them the examining attorney at USPTO would deny HG registration with no further questions asked. Instead HG had to wait for BW to leave their trademarks after their failure to file out some paperwork. I honestly say that BW has little to complain about HG getting the rights to Macross just because they didn't stay on top of some paperwork.

You guys have got to see this. I ran a search for "Macross" trademarks on http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess...4008:mftm3k.1.1. According to the results I found Big West had 10 trademarks for "Macross" and 5 for "Macross Plus" in 1999/2000 before "abandoning" them after a year. That is right folks they are listed as "abandoned" which is defined as "Failure To Respond Or Late Response." On the other hand HG has 5 trademarks for Macross that were granted only after Big West abandoned their Macross trademarks starting in 2001. If you don't believe me go and see for yourselves. Did HG really fight with BW over US trademarks or did BW just simply pull out after a year because of little demand for Macross in the US? I can see HG arguing over the Macross trademarks with their "Robotech: The Macross Saga," but HG would have no claims over the "Macross Plus" trademarks that are listed as being separate from "Macross." Plus there is no sign that I saw from my TESS (Trademark Electronic Search Service) results that it was anything other then HG taking advantage of the opportunity to grab the Macross trademarks after BW let them expire. According to http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/023/RipOff0023721.htm: Though the Macross Plus incident is not listed, if the page is right about the late 2001-early 2002 by that time the BW trademark on Macross toys had been long abandoned back in September 22, 2000. So it looks like HG did in fact have a legal right over Macross toys at the time... Oh why did BW pull out of the Macross trademarks after only a year But wait! If Macross and Macross Plus were listed as separate trademarks what does this mean for Macross Zero and Macross Frontier!?

Glad you brought up Mu. One thing I noticed is how people cite Ozma as pulling a Mu in ep. 17 when he shields the Macross Quartar bridge. Well, I was rewatching DYRL and noticed that Hikaru actually pulled the shielding maneuver and shoots down a Zentradi Power Armor that was on a Kamikaze attack for the bridge. Several of us Macross fans were saying Ozma pulled a Mu manuever, when it was actually a Hikaru maneuver from DYRL! Note: Mu was not only blond, but he was the veteran ace with his vices. Its fitting how Gundam Series have now been paying homage to Macross, a series that was founded on an initial concept of Space Ship Yamato meets Gundam. Makes me think of the irony of how after the Robotech movie comes out many will cite Robotech as Battle Star Galatica meets Transformers.

I actually did some digging and I found out that the Macross trio were hired to work on the Gundam the 8th MS Team and Shinji Kamowari did the mecha design for Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory. So, I have say Seto, that your Victory Gundam reference is more plausible then I initially thought. On that note I do remember now that Gundam Seed not only had the Singing Idol Lacus Clyne, but had the alien whale fossils as a possible joke to the Singing Space Whales in a Macross 7 OVA.

There is indeed to many Macross References to keep track of. Plus, how in the world could I forget Transformers and Project-Ako! The original JetFire toy was actually the Macross Skull Leader figure that was renamed and repainted for the transformers G1 Toyline. Back in the 80s Robotech fans recognized JetFire's roots and bought JetFire because he transformed better then the Robotech Veritech toys. http://www.toybin.org/cache/1985/Autobots/...e/480_robot.jpg On a similar note BattleTech, now Mechwarrior, used Macross designs after buying the rights from Big West. Unfortunately they were sued by Harmony Gold and settled to discontinue use of all Macross mech designs. Since then those designs have become know as the "Lost Mechs" in the Battle Tech continuity. http://www.schwag.org/~rocky/btech/Retro/Lost/index.html As for Project-Ako, I have yet to see it but I have heard is stock full of references from not just anime like Macross, Gundam, etc, but DC Comics as well. Have not seen Mobile Suit Victory Gundam either. Though to be honest just because the it "looks and operates like a converging beam cannon" doesn't mean its a solid reference to the Macross beam cannon. As for the sound effects, Sci-Fi shows use stock Sound effects from older shows all the time to save money. I thinks its likely the Mega launcher was made similar to the Macross Cannon because that it was fans and audiences were most likely familiar with.

I know this is kinda an old thread, but I have a few references. Megas XLR was loaded with great references: - The very title pokes fun of SDF Macross title - Megas is found in the junkyard on its back like in Macross DYRL - Hikaru's VF is seen for a second in a pirate ship hanger in another episode - The Glorft main ship looks exactly like the SDF-1 Its not surprising looking back though as one of Megas XLR's co-writers, Ford Riley also co-wrote Robotech: SC There is also Gainax's popular Evangelion. In Episode 09 of Evangelion, Asuka's leaps on and demolishes the half-submerged building of Studio Fantasia in reference to Hikaru crashing into Studio Artland. Whats more the Zentradi/Human being children of the protoculture plot is mirrored in Evangelion. Not only do they share the same genetic codes, but they are confirmed to have been created by the "First Ancestral Race" in the Evangelion 2 video game. Its no surprise though as Hideaki Anno, the director of Evangelion actually started his career in anime as a key animator for SDF Macross. Also, in a Super Friend's episode of all places an obvious knockoff of the Macross's Bridge is seen. Unfortunately I cannot remember the youtube link.