Duke Togo

Too bad for you... it doesnt' change the fact that it had more impact on the gaming industry than any other game in the past decade. It brought RPG's into the mainstream outside of Japan, and MADE the Playsation THE gaming console. To deny these facts is just plain dumb. Final Fantasy VII sold millions, and God knows how many people bought the Playstation because of it.

Maybe FFVII WAS a flagship title for the PSX, but it doesn't matter. Beyond a few points (the music was good, and the materia system was so-so) the game was lackluster at best. I'm serious, take those two things away and what's left? Not much worth playing, really.

I guess we all got suckered then, huh?

How about I post some completely unappropiate Shirow artwork? Who's with me? Nuke a gay whale for Jesus!

I still disagree. I can tell you right now I don't know anyone who's even played Super Mario RPG. Final Fantasy VII turned the industry on its head.

Don't all answer at once, or anything.

Some way, some how, it all comes back to gay whales.

Off Topic boards KILL topic specific forums. The Admins and Mods have made the right call on this one, and I hope they will not change their minds.

Togo, you give far too much credit to FF7 where opening the doors in the US where RPGs are concerned. You forget another little Square RPG that introduced many to genre for the simple fact it starred Nintendo's biggest star, Mario. I'd say that RPGs were being more appreciated after Super Mario RPG and it opened the doors. FF7 simply fortified the genre in the states.

You're not even close, it didn't reach anywhere near as close the audiance Final Fantasy VII did. The sales numbers are just not there to back up your argument.

You do not consider FF7 characters to be SD? How? They were exactly like every other FF character protrait untill that point. Heck... even FF6 characters were better portraited then FF7. The only instance where FF7 characters were accuratly portrait were during certain FMVs where they seemed to have everything in the right proportion.

No, I don't consider them to be SD. Sure, they have that distinct early PSX polygon look, but their heads are fairly in proportion to their bodies. The more human-like designs also allow them for a greater range of emotion, as compared to their past 8-bit and 16-bit counterparts. As far as I am concerned, there is no comparison.

As far as George Lucas is concerned, only the movies are canon. Period. Everything else fits in somewhere in the Expanded Universe, and may or may not agree or disagree with the films. The movies supersede everything else, and cannot be contridicted by anything found in the EU.

I don't think its so much as being cool to bash something.... but I think ppl bash FFVII simply because, gamers love to bash games that brought a genre into the casual gamer mind. FF7 did that... it brough RPGs to the masses. And while some might consider FF7 to be a casual gamer RPG.... I find the Materia system to be far too deep for the casual gamer.

I disagree with your first point, and agree with your second. A Vast majority of fans like VII, and it seems that a very small group like to think they are above all of us for liking it. They claim to love the "old school" RPG, and everything since 16-bit if garbage. I am also guessing most of these people aren't old enough to vote. I am truely an old school gamer, I started with the Atari 2600, and I LOVE Final Fantasy VII.

To be honest.... FF8 was the true embodiment of what RPG elitists hate about FF7. You had FMVs every 5 minutes, you had eye candy anywhere you went, extremely shallow characters, bad music, a clunky badly executed game system, the ever so lame time travel gimmick, the lack of equipments, spells now counted like items... I could go on for a while... and the same can be said about FFX too.

I agree with your first point, and disgaree with your second on this one. I don't think its the elitists that hate VIII, I think just about EVERYONE hates Final Fantasy VIII. Its truely a putrid game, I could not care less about the characters, and the game was just plain bad. On the other hand, I LOVE Final Fantasy X (with the exception of the mini-games they pass of as side quests. They entirely destroy the flow of the game). I thought the addition of voice added a dimension to the characters we were not able to have before, and I loved it. I also think the characters of Wakka and Auron are stand outs in the Final Fantasy series.

As for the more adult frame of mind.... thats extremely debatable. FF7 characters were still SD, they still cracked jokes every so often, and you had Yuffie who was pretty much a comic relief character. The level of maturity of FF7 was the same as FF4, and none of its characters acted as clowns. If you still think so... do you care to quote or even point out where FF4 characters acted like clowns?

Completely disagree here, on all counts. There was plenty of zaininess in Final Fantasy IV, and I do not care nor do I have the time to go through and document the character's actions in in. I also do not consider the characters in Final Fantasy VII to be "super deformed". They were the most correct portrayal of humans up to that point int he series, both on the map, in battle, and in the FMV.

I don't think anyone here cares if you are impressed or not. <_< 

They obviously do, and I believe I said "anyone here, especially me", not just "me".

What's the news on the mod?

I've always thought that TPM holds up better after several viewings than AOTC. All TPM really needs is some editing, and it is a few Jar Jar Binks scenes away from being far more accepted and nloved than it is now. It just flows better for me.

Also, I thought that Portman was one of the weak links in the prequels, and I have been very unimpressed with her work in the first two films (though I have seen her do excellent work in other movies). Her personality simply does not fit the character, and she is nowhere near the firebrand Fisher was as Princess Leia. I don't buy her as the mother of Luke and Leia, or the leader of a people.

I really have to laugh at some of you Final Fantasy "elitists" bashing Final Fantasy VII. Seems to be the "cool" thing to do, when it does little besides show your ignorace of the Final Fantasy series. Now, opinion is opinion, ans it cannot be debated. But when a game like Final Fantasy VII is being portrayed as little more than eye candy, and a disgrace to the series, well, all I can say is you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about. You would have been saying the same thing about VI (a game you champion) had it originally come out on the PSX with the graphic advantage that VII had. Your argument is laughable, and your opinion is lacking in any solid evidence.

If anything, VII moved the series into a more "adult" frame of mind, where characters no longer acted like clowns, like some sort of sterotipical anime comedy. Going back and playing the older games in the series, the goofiness becomes all too apparent, and is probably one of the reasons why Final Fantasy was always second fiddle to the Dragon Quest series.

This is coming from someone who first played Final Fantasy over a decade ago, and who has completed all 10 games of the series, along with Tactics. I can also safely say that not a one game in the series is a deep as Xenogears or has the flowing dialog of Vagrant Story, neither of which would have been available to me as a gamer in North America if not for Final Fantasy VII.

It might work on the gaming boards you frequent, but your elitist attitude impress no one here, especially me.

I am your father...

Ewan McGregor likes the script! He also said he's done very little blue screen work. That's all I need to know to have hope for Episode III, cause he didn't like the script or the blue screen work of the first two.

Jesus Christ, that is AWESOME. I've been a Fire Fox fan since I was a kid, have the first British printing of both books, and thew movie on DVD. I'm just drooling over these pictures.

This movie is going to suck. Can you say "direct to video" boys and girls? I know you can! I have lost so much faith in the movie industry.

Wait wait, I'm not done yet. I would also like to address the popularity of Final Fantasy VII. Let me first say that I played my first console RPG in the early 80's, that being "Adventure" for the Atari 2600. I've been hooked ever since.

There are MANY RPG elitists who like to bash Final Fantasy VII, calling it eye candy without much substance, the downfall of the Final Fantasy series, etc. Besides being just plain wrong, they fail to see the big picture. Final Fantasy VII MADE the Playstation as a console, and put it where it is today. It changed the way games looked, and it blew the doors off of the RPG market worldwide.

As we all know, RPG's had long be the staple of the video gaming industry in Japan, but in the US and elsewhere it had always been a distant cousin to action/adventure games that dominated the market. Final Fantasy VII changed all of that. Because of the popularity of Final Fantasy VII, a flood of RPG titles were brought into the market. MANY of the games us RPG fans have available to play today are there because of this.

Whether you like the game or not, you have to recognize its significance. Final Fantasy VII was the single most important and influential game of the 1990's.

Jesus, I swear to God, I wonder sometimes. I should have just stopped reading all together, and now look at what I get myself in to. I am forced to come back to back up Keith.

First off, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children is a movie, not a game, for those who didn't know. Secondly, everyone didn't die at the end of Final Fantasy VII. Thirdly, the remakes that were scrapped DID NOT include the ability to revive Aeris. It was never ever hinted at. SHE'S DEAD. ACCEPT IT.

While I am on the subject, I should remind everyone that Final Fantasy XII has been developed by the team behind Ogre/Final Fantasy Tactics/Vagrant Story, and is near completion. If that isn't enough to give you faith in Square Enix, I don't know what is. Also, Xenogears HAS been updated for the PS2, its called Xenosaga. Episode I is out, with II on the way.

And before I forget, THE CHARACTER WE SEE METAL GEAR SOLID 3 IS BIG BOSS, NOT SOLID SNAKE. I thought that I should just remind everyone before the subject comes up again.