Extreme Makeover (Ship Edition)

[Knight26]

As most have you have probably seen I have been on a redesign kick of late. Well I have a two week underway coming up and so I figured I would work on some of the ships that seem to need more work to me. Some of the these are just very old designs that just need an update, others are ones I never put much time into. Others just need little tweaks in my opinion, those will be detailed here in. So onto the candidates:

GF Brekhov Class Destroyer: One of my earlist designs, it has been repeatedly remodeled but may be up for a complete tear down and rebuild. The crescent shaped main cannon arms will be retained in the final design no matter what. I think the biggest problem the design faces is lack of hanger space and way too small engines.

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/banshee-4.jpg

GF Mitchell Class Light Carrier: Another old design up for a complete tear down and rebuild. I still like it and the overall concept but the design no longer stacks up with the later ships I've come up with, some of which are suppossed to be older. These ships are intended to be light, cheap and turned out in large numbers.

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/mitchell-4.jpg

GF Star Stallion Tactical Dropship: Ok, this one well it just sucks, I can say that honestly. I never put much time into it, just wanted a smaller version of the Galaxy-3 strategic dropship. Nothing on this design is safe.

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/gftactdrop-4.jpg

GF ex-Tenrack now Vakyrie-II Bomber: This design I actually like, but it needs some tweaks and a detailing job. I'm looking at redoing the engines to be more like those of the recent mosquito redesign and to put weapons hatches over the torpedo tubes, etc...

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/tenrack-4.jpg

UCSB Feral-F Bomber: Like the Valkyrie I really like this overall design, but it need some tweaks, engine vanes, torpedo covers, new turrets (hate the current ones), new wings, reposition of the engines (maybe).

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/ferlf-4.jpg

UCSB Medium Tank and Derivates: This one, well it was a quick thrown together job, tanks have never been my specialty and I think it shows in these designs. These are hover tank designs, I think the textures more than anything kill it, but the design still needs something. The AAA version is also very top heavy, a definite cmplete tear down.

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/medtank.jpg

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/ucsbaaa.jpg

UCSB Heavy Tank: This was my first hovertank design, once again it shows. I've also been told that it bares a striking resemblance to the tanks from Tron. Once again this is a complete tear down and rebuild.

http://nocturnalknight.blogspot.com/tank3.jpg

IF you vote please explain why you chose what you did, if you think several need it please comment on that but vote on the one you think needs it most. I appreciate all comments and suggestions on what needs work and will take comments into consideration. I leave tuesday so the voting as of monday night will determine how the redesign order will progress. I will post the redesigns when I get back.

[MSW]

I voted for the first ship...GF Brekhov Class Destroyer...Not because I think it is the worst or most in need...but because it has a definate core shape that only needs refinement...

I'll be perfectly honest, and please take this as constructively as possable...of all the designs, the GF Brekhov Class Destroyer has the most potential. the rest have a sort of "me too" overall generic quality that isn't helped much by the noisey textures....I'm not trying to be mean by saying this, rather I hope it comes across as helpfull...

The overall shape is the key to designing such fictional spaceships...the shape of an X-Wing is much different then a TIE Fighter, much different then the Millenium Falcon...the Enterprise is much different then the Defiant, much different then the hovercraft from the Matrix films...When looking for inspiration for the shap of your ships, don't look at established ship designs, take inspiration from everywhere else instead...the Slave One was inspired by a art deco street lamp...other ships have been inpired by insects, even the shape of a hamburger with a bite taken out of it...draw inspiration from wildlife, from fish, from fingernail clippers, whatever...just try to bring something new to the table and don't forget that there is no "up" in space, so it can pay to take a shape and flip it around in various ways to find interesting angles to present as the "front"....your first ship has that, the others don't

as for detailing, be it the location of guns, the cockpit, or stripes and/or other surface markings...treat the shape of the ship as if it were a blank picture remembering your art classes talking about "center of intrest/focal point" in composistion, and how all the other details of the image are developed to draw the eye to the focal point...tis the same with ship design, pick some detail you want to feature on the ship as a focal point...is the ship ment to be very fast, then maybe make the engines the focal point...doesn't mean that they have to be huge, rather that all the other details are developed to to draw the eye to that section of the ship...another thing to keep in mind it the "guts on the outside" look popularised by Star Wars...look at the ships in those films, notice how the texture of the "guts" act to draw your attention around the ship's shape...how some areas are rather lightly detailed, but other areas have all sorts of insane detailing...the little trenches on the sides of a Star destroyer, for example, are highly detailed, but the decking one the main horizontal flat sectionsis pretty minimal...notice how those trenches on the sides help pull your eye around the shape of the ship (almost like the pen stripeing on a car) ... you can use both texture (guts on the outside) and color to do this, but notice how it doesn't really alter the shape of the ship.

as for ships that relate to one another...motheship, carrier, fightercraft, all from the same alien race, nation, whatever... a big key componet is the used of shared design motifs...the yellowish egg shapes on the Macross Zentradi ships, the near featureless gemoetric flats on the Star Wars imperial ships...thease also don't really effect the overall shape of the ship, rather like most details, they are areas of intrest...but shared across much of the line the ship originated from...these deatil bits don't have to be exactly the same, but like the yellow antenna on a Gundam, they should be featured prominately enough (and be simular enough) to allow viewers to clearly understand that this is a shared detail of the particular design line...

I hope that helps...might also want to do some googleing on "concept design" for more ideas and critices

[EXO]

I think the first one is the weakest in design as far as the all of them go. It looks like 2 magnets that are linked together. It doesn't match the rest of the ships. But then again you said it was one of your earliest design. The tanks look cool.

[Blaine23]

I voted for the Hovertank since it definitely looked the most bland.

However, I would like to add a vote for you to design (or retrofit) one of your designs as a space version of a pleasure barge. Add some shuffleboard, a Leto deck, an Aculpulco deck, and set a course... for love.

[Knight26]

From reading the posts I think I need to explain a thing or to, don't get me wrong I appreciate the comments.

the rest have a sort of "me too" overall generic quality that isn't helped much by the noisey textures

That is why they are on the list to be redone, they just aren't distinct enough in my opinion and some were a rush job. The textures were just used because they seemed to fit at the time, but looking back now I realize that they need to be canned as well.

The overall shape is the key to designing such fictional spaceships...the shape of an X-Wing is much different then a TIE Fighter, much different then the Millenium Falcon...the Enterprise is much different then the Defiant, much different then the hovercraft from the Matrix films...When looking for inspiration for the shap of your ships, don't look at established ship designs, take inspiration from everywhere else instead...the Slave One was inspired by a art deco street lamp...other ships have been inpired by insects, even the shape of a hamburger with a bite taken out of it...draw inspiration from wildlife, from fish, from fingernail clippers, whatever...just try to bring something new to the table and don't forget that there is no "up" in space, so it can pay to take a shape and flip it around in various ways to find interesting angles to present as the "front"....your first ship has that, the others don't

I tend to approach the designs differently then movie artists, I approach them as an engineer and a designer. I look to see what will work, what is the most realistic and plausible. I also try to give each design it own unique look, except when they are off a similar line, like the Solaar MK1-3 fighter line. At the same time each company/race has its own unique style, will point that out later.

Ship design has nothing at all to do with appearance, it has to do with the mission, and fulfilling the mission requirements. I do not make my ships to necessarily be astetically pleasing, or neat looking. I design them to look like they can really do the job. As interesting as the "guts on the outside" look is, it really is very impractical in terms of warship design. The only components that need to be outside are the required ones, weapons, sensors, thermal radiators, engine exhausts, manuevering thrsuters, etc... ANything else just creates weak points and vulnerable areas, places the enemy can exploit.

As I stated I adjust the ship designs according to who built them. On my GF capital ships for instance:

Luna-3 is one of the oldest shipyards and its designs show that, they have a look more like those of traditional naval vessels. They tend to be blocky, very little finesse with few seconday systems, except for those required for the mission. None of their designs are featured here, but I have shown them off before, the Bethesda class cruiser and Fairchild Carrier.

Jupiter-IO is the big carrier builder, they build the Carpenter and Barker class heavy carriers, the dual bow, high command bridge siege carriers capable of making planetfall. The Mitchell is a Jupiter-IO design, but it does not fit the overall design scheme of the other craft, that needs to be corrected and I intend to address that in the redesign, but still maintain its unique fly through flight deck.

Centauri Drive Yards is the destroyer company, they built the Brekhov and its sister ship the Sachsen. They are knwon for strong, tough ships, the large Razer cannon arms are their trademark, as are the external engine nacelles, they are one of the few GF builders to use that design feature. Multiple redudant systems are key to their designs as are multiple hulls.

Centauri Shipping Consortium is another old company, one of the first break offs from Luna-3. They make the cheap mass produced ships, saucers and large, really large engines are key to their designs, the engines are so large though because they still use older technologies and the engines are not as efficient as those of newer craft. They are still used though due to their robustness and ease of maintenance, by the time of the main storyline anything that can go wrong in the engines has, and any fixes that can be implimented have as well.

Yamato Staryards is one of the latest players, and their designs are entirely earth tech based, no alien technology that they have not reverse engineered to the absolute most basic level. Their ships tend to be narrower with large engines, and numerous gunmounts, they are the battleship builders, so big guns are their trademark as well.

The Neo-Syrian staryards predate the GF formation and all their ships feature main saucers, anti-matter collider rings and thermal radiators externally. None of these are featured here either, other than minor tweaks I am satisfied with all of those designs.

That is all for the major designers of the GF. The UCSB ship designers tend to vary more by species. The Drashig's ships tend to be scarab shaped, very organic, with external nacelles and large turreted guns. The Lodran's ships tend to look like angular sea creatures, hard edges abound on their ships, they know from over 1000 years of space flight that aerodynamics mean nothing in the vacuum of space. They also tend to feature internal engines, a rarity in most confed designs. The Rimdook tend to go with blocky ships as well, but also more intimidating designs. The Anulians also tend to lean towards blocky designs, but with external nacelles, again this is due to nearly 1000 years of space flight. So overall most confed ships tend to be blocky in nature but even then each race and company has its own design philosphy.

Well I hope that clears up any confusion.

[MSW]

Erm...

I tend to approach the designs differently then movie artists, I approach them as an engineer and a designer. I look to see what will work, what is the most realistic and plausible. I also try to give each design it own unique look, except when they are off a similar line, like the Solaar MK1-3 fighter line. At the same time each company/race has its own unique style, will point that out later.

Exactly what is realistic or even plauseable about a space going carrier with a flight deck?

Space, remember has no gravity, there is no up or down...you automaticly throw realisam and plauseability out the window when you design without that in mind.

Ship design has nothing at all to do with appearance, it has to do with the mission, and fulfilling the mission requirements. I do not make my ships to necessarily be astetically pleasing, or neat looking. I design them to look like they can really do the job. As interesting as the "guts on the outside" look is, it really is very impractical in terms of warship design. The only components that need to be outside are the required ones, weapons, sensors, thermal radiators, engine exhausts, manuevering thrsuters, etc... ANything else just creates weak points and vulnerable areas, places the enemy can exploit.

For works of fiction it has EVERYTHING to do with apperance...flight decks are placed on Gundam/Macross ships because the audiance understands how they work on Navy vehicals and therefore it can be easyer for viewers to understand the ship in question is a carrier...doesn't mean it's realistic, or even plauseable...it's about takeing something the audience knows, and useing it on a fictional ship design so the viewers can relate without haveing to involve a big huge long explanation...fictional ship design, be it in books, movies, anime, videogames is always about appearance...you design your ships so they look like they can fullfill the mission, you design your ships with appearence in mind.

re-read what I wrote, I never said you had to make the ships neat or cool looking, never said anything like that...but I said it's important to make them interesting, to play up some details rather then others, to make them distinct...to a large degree you already do that when you put a flight deck on a carrier, or cover a battlecruser with gun turrents...by doing so you are playing to our preconcieved notions of the differences in such craft here on earth, an enviroment with distict gravity and sense of up/down...in that sense your designs have points of intrest, focal points if you will, that help inform the viewer of just what the overall picture says (the purpose of the ship)...All I was trying to say before is for you to refine this approch, get away from the "me too" generic space craft design (where everything seems basied on Earth bound submarines/carriers/battleships) use the zero gravity no up/down enviroment to get your design sense to "think outside the box" so you can get away from that generic design look...there is a hint of that in your first ship, the potential for improvement...

[Knight26]

I've started work on the redesigned Brekhov Destroyer. Been a pain trying to figure out the reconfiguration and new engine placement, etc... I may add another set of engines, this thing is much large now, which I wanted. I still need to add the external fighter docks to the underside as well as the dropship hanger, those will be ventrally mounted, but I think it needs something topside, I just figure out what, maybe some superstructure and large turret gauss cannons, I dunno. I am still not entirely set on this reconfiguration though. Any comments on it before I leave and it becomes much more set?

Here is a picture:

Edited May 24, 2004 by Knight26