Harpoon + Fleet Command

[Boxer]

Saw FC bundled in a pack the other day with some other sub sims and thought "hey, this looks cool". I tried to snag a demo but to my dismay it doesn't appear to work on my XP comp.

Then I found out about the Harpoon series, and other than recognizing the imagry from the Hunt for Red October movie, I thought it looked interesting, also. Tried finding a demo of Harpoon 3 only to run into a different problem: Nowhere to get it.

So I was wondering if anyone has played these games and could let me know how they fare? I've seen reviews on both sides giving FC, at least, praise and boos... but I'd like to know what folks here think.

And if it doesn't violate any rules, where can I get some playable demos to try before buying?

[mondamoto]

I payed the original Harpon years ago on my old 486 also depending on the version it might be a DOS based game. it was fun game could be a rather difficult at times. It was a based on a board game from the 80s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_(computer_game)

Looks like it is coming back http://advancedgaming.biz/index.php

Edited April 16, 2007 by mondamoto

[Boxer]

I knew Harpoon was based on a boardgame... and that coincidently the game-version of it appeared in the movie version of Hunt For Red October (seen when Ryan is identifying DALLAS, midway in the movie. Graphics look like HARPOON anyway).

When I looked for a demo, I was redirected to the publisher's page but to a page that was, essentially, blank. Would I have to register for membership or something to have a playable demo?

Harpoon III is the latest version released, and since I operate windows I'd have to try Advanced Naval Warfare. I'd just like to have a demo or something to try it out and see how it plays, but I haven't been able to find one. Same with FC, and in this case the available demo isn't compatable with XP since it's an older game (updates have fixed this, but not in the case of the demo.)

Anyway, thanks in advance.

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

I played the original DOS harpoon back in 90. Had great fun sending in swarms of Backfires at ultra low level, hitting the afterburners and charging in at the carrier groups.

And of course, trying to move the Iowa into gun range of the Soviet Fleet.

[Boxer]

How hard was Harpoon to play? I mean granted, I'm a fan of Introversion games (DEFCON), so the reduced graphics is kind of cool in a way... but control-wise, is it a headache?

And can anyone still point me to a demo, or is that illegal to ask here?

[Retracting Head Ter Ter]

How hard was Harpoon to play? I mean granted, I'm a fan of Introversion games (DEFCON), so the reduced graphics is kind of cool in a way... but control-wise, is it a headache?

And can anyone still point me to a demo, or is that illegal to ask here?

For big engagements, you just have to micro-manage every single asset. It models down to the last helicopter or fighter. But its not impossible.

[Warmaker]

(With "Anchors Aweigh" playing in background)

I've had touch and go flings with Navy sims. The nice thing with Naval warfare / wargames is that you practically never come across the bad apple types from FPS / MMO games and their special brand of online retardation. Naval warfare is a game of patience. Rushing in for a fight will result in you taking a bath in the sea. Or just getting blown out of the water.

My first was actually on the old Sega Genesis when my Dad bought for me M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank and later 688 Attack Sub for it. Yes, the Genesis had early hardcore sims on it!

The gameplay was unforgiving for 688. You could play as a Captain for a Los Angeles Class Nuclear Sub or, IIRC, a Soviet Alfa Class Nuke. What was cool was that when orders were issued, replies and chatter were all in English or Russian. Missions varied and the targets were of a wide variety. Cargo ships, warships (incl. US/USSR carriers, US Iowa battleships, etc), submarines (ballistic, attack, nuclear, conventional), and you even had to worry about maritime air patrols, which were really dangerous. Trying to avoid detection and once you have been detected, trying to throw off your hunters. Then there's trying to evade actual attacks.

The big payoff though was your torpedoes making their hits. There were missions also where you were supposed to get into range of a target and launch sub-based Cruise Missiles.

I also recently bought Silent Hunter IV: Wolves of the Pacific. I'm trying to learn the in's and out's of it and start prowling the Pacific for prey. I don't think you can play as a Submarine Captain for the IJN though. Would've been interesting. Still, Gato Class is fine enough for me!

Also, I've played a bit of the IL-2 expansion, Pacific Fighters. I love flying the F4U Corsair and there's opportunities to fly off of a carrier. The letdown with Pacific Fighters is that the variety of ingame warships is actually quite sad. Only the Prince of Wales is in, and that was sunk real early in the war. There are no other battleships in the game, British, American, and even Japanese! No North Dakotas, Iowas, or the mighty Yamato Class battleships. So many warship classes were left out that it hurt. Some say, "So what? It's a flight sim?" I say, "It's a flight sim set in the Pacific Theater. Warships were the major ingredients for success in the Pacific, and for so much to be left out, it's a detriment to a Pacific Theater game."

Edited April 18, 2007 by Warmaker

[Boxer]

I've flirted with sub sims in the past... I gotta admit Jane's 668(i) (I think it was) difficult and frustrating. Trying to figure things out and juggle ship ops with no clear tutorial was not fun.

FC and Harpoon looked interesting because they were fleet command systems. Never had any experience with that kind of thing before... at least in the sense of a real sim, and not an RTS *coughhomeworldcough*. They looked fun, and I want to try them.

That said, I also like ship simulations. I feel there aren't enough of them (Just submarine sims). The most fun experience I've had in this genre is the Starfleet Command (1, 2, Orion Pirates) series of games. Even though they're set in space, they still have 2d movement and are more or less based more on navy manuvers than what comes out of the silver screen. The interface was simple, and I didn't always have to worry about power or going through the motions of preparing every little thing for something to work (as, seemingly, in 688.)

Edited April 18, 2007 by Boxer

[Akilae]

How's SHIV?

I played SHIII for quite a while. It was a great thrill setting up a firing solution and sinking the Ark Royal at port. Some of the micro-managing in the game was a bit "eh", like crew fatigue...

I ended up applying a ton of fan patches for maximum realism, and the game kept dying on me after the realistic dive depth patch. Haven't played ever since...

It does take a certain type of person to be able to play naval sim games though. A regular person would probably go insane from the waiting if they took a Type IX out on Operation Drumbeat, or trying to keep in mind the differences needed for setting up a firing solution for impact pistol and magnetic pistol torps, or even trying to evade DDs after a successful run on a convoy...

Good times...

Edited April 18, 2007 by Akilae

[Warmaker]

I've never played any of the previous Silent Hunter games. It's the first Sub Sim I've tried since 688 on the Genesis and I missed Jane's 688 years later on the PC.

I'm still a newb to Wolves of the Pacific and trying my best not to be sunk by an angry Japanese sailor on a rowboat Still trying to get a hang of the commands.

[Akilae]

I've never played any of the previous Silent Hunter games. It's the first Sub Sim I've tried since 688 on the Genesis and I missed Jane's 688 years later on the PC.

I'm still a newb to Wolves of the Pacific and trying my best not to be sunk by an angry Japanese sailor on a rowboat Still trying to get a hang of the commands.

Just a little tip I didn't pick up for quite a while: One shot under the keel > Direct hit on the hull.

Generally you want a magnetic pistol torp set to run +2~3 meters under the keel depth of the ship you're firing on (+5~6 in anything with big waves I think). One good shot will break the keel and the ship will go down without much fuss. This is how most sub commanders gained reputations for "One torp, one target". It's a bit more fuss to set up, but once you get the hang of it, you can fire from any direction and have the satisfaction of seeing that famous column of exploding water followed by a tanker breaking in the middle.

Another plus for magnetic pistols: You aren't limited to a fussy and hard to set up 90 degree shot. High deflection shots will work just as well.

Then again, I'm used to playing the German side of things, maybe the US Navy has better impact pistols :-p

Also, if they kept crew fatigue mechanics the same, keep your crew rotated! It can make a life/death difference whether you have a man falling asleep on lookout or someone bright eyed and bushy tailed.

Dang... all this talk of subs and torps makes me wanna pick up SHIV...

[Boxer]

Makes me want to try any of the subsims out there! A pity the modern ones are kinda old though... most newer sims have a WWII setting...

That said, didn't a few come with voice activated commands or something? Anyone try that?

[Akilae]

Modern sub warfare = Push the "I win" button and let your self-tracking automatic torp do the work.

WWII = sweating it out trying to calculate a firing solution for your dumb torp as three destroyers bear down on you. (Or let the TDC do it, but you still need to pop up your scope to get a solution...)

Other than that, it's not much different. Still gotta play the slow waiting game more than anything else.

Anybody interested should give SHIII a spin. It's been out for quite a while, and with latest patches is more stable than SHIV is right now.

[Warmaker]

The last thing with Modern Submarine games is that ASW is really, really nasty. Those fancy torpedoes work both ways, y'know! Then there's maritime patrol aircraft like P-3's that drop nasty things... like those same torpedoes on you.

But yeah, as has been said earlier, patience is still the primary virtue, along with tempered aggressiveness.

As for WWII sub sims... there's nothing like closing in on a juicy target. You pan the periscope around for other targets... and see a Destroyer Escort bearing down on you at full speed.

That's when you cr** your pants.

"Periscope down!"

"Dive! Dive!! Dive!!!"

[Akilae]

Late war Allied ASW is also pretty nerve wracking... much larger sonar cone, and almost always a small fleet of them so half of them are pinging and half of them are listening. Considering you have to close within 500 meters of a target to ensure they won't have time to turn when they spot the steam bubbles of your torp...

Of course, shooting off a spread of four at 1km also works, but such a waste of valuable torps...