SchizophrenicMC

with determination & practice, you too can draw like this!

it took me a while to get to draw like this too, mostly all the years in school when you were told not to draw in class

then i took a course in college that demanded lots drawing, and so the bad habits continued and here we are.

I've tried to practice, and the closest thing to a VF-1 I can do is traced....

Then again, a brick's skill exceeds mine. Perhaps VP can do it... GOOD LUCK 25th ANNIVERSARY 1S BOY!

VF-27 Lucifer

VF-27 Reaper

VF-27 (Here's the obvious one) Anti-Christ (Messiah, IE Jesus. The 27's like its opposite, so...)

the VE-1 and VT-1 also have different heads, and possibly different cockpits/avionics/other internal systems that set them apart. the difference between the VT and VE are at least as great as the difference between the 1A and the 1J.

and the mecha designs in DYRL are considered cannon, but not the story. in universe DYRL is a movie produced in 2031 that depict a fictionalized account of the events of SW1. the movie used the 2012 refit version of the SDF-1 and upgraded block 6 VF-1's (the block six's have slightly different heads on the 1A's, and the cockpits have been upgraded with new ejector seats, streamlined controls, and a HUD projected on the entire canopy.

as for what I'm using as my transformation reference, I'm basing my points off what I've seen from various line arts, the toy's and models that are out, and the animations themselves. I've seen/have plenty of images to support my points, but it could take me a while to find them all.

edit: here's some images and links:

the yamato 1/60 SV-51, (the toy's transformation is essentially anime accurate. http://gamu-toys.info/goukin/yamato/sv51/sv5102.html

transformation detail on the YF-19

and the VF-25 transformation (the 27 transforms the same way more or less)

First of all, I never consider any toy (Even a Yamato) to be anime-accurate. Second.... Why spend all that money refitting the Macross? It's out of commission, anyway... That's beside the point...

Funny story: all of the advanced transformation systems of the UN were based off of AUN designs. (Don't tell me the VF-1 was more advanced than the SV-51.) What you're saying validates my comment, at least in part. The VF-19 transforms like the SV-51. (At least, more like it than the VF-1 or 11.) The VF-25 transforms like a VF-19. Therefore, a VF-25 transforms like a SV-51.

Let's get off of that, and back onto the topic's main idea: VF-25 design purpose. The VF-25 can safely out-perform the YF-21 and YF-19. The latter 2 had a barrier where any higher performance would kill the pilot. The VF-25 exceeds this limit. How? My theory is that anti-gravity generators, as the technology became smaller, were installed within the airframe, and were used to lessen g-loads on the plane and its pilot, while retaining maneuverability.

Actually there are some problems with long-term exposure to artificial gravity. It has been speculated that someone who lives in space for long time might not be able to return to normal "Earth" gravity.... this has been really one of the questions about our own current space flight programs to distant planets. You can bet that the astronauts in the space station are regularly examined for bone density changes and other issues.

http://www.permanent.com/s-centri.htm

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1995/gravity-1129.html

That's an interesting observation though. I hadn't realized both Mao and Bilrer were in wheelchairs at all until this thread pointed it out.

In the first epi (not sure if it was deculture or broadcast version), we saw Sheryl and Grace going through an adjustment chamber when they boarded Frontier. I believe they set the gravity to something like .7g. (1g is normal Earth gravity) If you were Mao or Bilrer and were on the older ships, it is possible that environmental controls were not treated the same way and they had spent their early years under less gravity which could make it worse as they got older and adjusted to newer ships.

I don't know enough about the tech spechs of older Macross colony ships so someone please chime in!

Thing is, even the original Macross Class SDF-1 had gravity generators capable of 1G. I don't think it was micro-gravitational injury. More likely an injury from earlier on that put her in a wheelchair. As for Bilrer, it's probably by choice. I don't think he's sustained any injury. Also, I don't think Zentraedi are as easily injured by microgravity and the like.

It's not a fighter if it doesn't have wing hardpoints. That's my philosophy! Even today's stealth fighters have them. (Given, there's only 2 on the F-22...)

The VF-25 has at least 2 underwing hardpoints per wing, with a possibility of overwing hardpoints. (The SV-51 had them, why not the VF-25?) It would help explain the FAST Pack mounting. Also, the Speaker Pods are good proof of at least 4 total UW hardpoints.

besides, the space in the legs is used to store the elevators in Battroid mode-d3v

I did get an email from Cristina, she's fallen pretty ill herself, I wont go into what she had but it's basically like a nasty as hell case of the flu.

It's a bit tough of a decision yes, both of them have more than half their lines done and they've progressed this far that it would be a shame to get rid of either of them.

Lots of thinking to do.

Good God... Maybe the download will be ready by Christmas, the DVD by Easter... DAMMIT! Well, if it's like that, keep them. They've put their share of work in. Hopefully they become well soon, not just for this, but for their own sakes. A sick person is a person losing his time.

VF-0 varients:

1. 0A - standard variant, 1 head laser, swing wings, single seat
2. 0B - test/trainer variant, 1 head laser, swing wings, two seats
3. 0C - special variant, 1 head laser, delta wings, single seat
4. D - special variant, 1 head laser, delta wings, two seats
5. S - comander variant, 2 head laser, swing wings, 1 seat

B and C are only seen as hase model kits.

VF-1 varients:

1. 1A - standard/cannon fodder varient, 1 head laser,, single seat
2. 1B - upgraded 1A, (improved avionics+ 1S head)
3. 1D - 2 head laser, two seats
4. 1J - flight lead variant, 2 head lasers, single seat
5. 1S - squadron lead, variant 4 head lasers, single seat
6. 1X - modernized VF-1 (looks like a 1A)
7. VT-1 - dedicated trainer, no head lasers, two seats
8. VE-1 - reconnaissance/AWAC variant, no head lasers, two seats
9. VEFR-1 - electronic warfare variant, no head lasers, two seats

VF-1 wins 9 to 5

So... I'm confused. May as well get the answer here: Is DYRL? considered canon, in any way, shape, or form?

Tell me this: What are you using as your transformation reference? That'd be helpful, so as to make questions like this never exist.

The VE-1 is just a modified VT-1. The only difference is the sensors embedded in it, and the AWACSFAST Pack. (Airborn Warning And Control System Fuel And Sensors Tactical Pack) The VT-1 used the T-FAST. (I may be making up names, but they serve only to fill in the role they play. So, 8... But, that still is more than the 0...

From what we've seen, it probably looks like a VF-25 but with a different back - possibly either like the V-11 MAXL and VF-0D (wings swing in, but not fully due to the seize), or like the YF-21/VF-22 (folding).

Compared to the VF-25:

Shorter nose

One-seater cockpit

Skinnier fuselage

Fixed-wing

Single-laser Head Turret

Similar engines

Same vertical stabilizers

All in all, you can tell it was the VF-25's prototype, but you can see that a lot changed. I would like to see a VF-25D, trainer, fixed-wing, or otherwise.

Does the VF-0 have the most variants? A: Cannon Fodder. D: 2-seater trainer/Radar ops. S: Commander Variant. C: Single-seater Radar ops. (Is there a B? I'm pretty sure I read about a B somewhere. Yes, I do consider the models to be canon.)

alright, so some bad news....

1) I've completely lost contact with Cristina, after her youtube account had been banned she hasn't replied to any of my emails after telling me she was very close to completion.

2) Fruitfly who is playing Claudia has become very ill and will be in the hospital for sometime....

I don't want to recast either of them seeing how they're very good at what they do : /but it's holding up production.

What do you guys think? Recast? or just hold tight?

Damn...

Well, though it's not Fruitfly's fault about her condition, you may want to recast, depending on how long she'll be out of it.

As for Cristina... If she won't answer, she's not worth the trouble. I always thought she was overrated, anyway...

In the end, I'm not qualified to make the decision, but I can't wait to see the movie in English. Flip a coin. That's what I do. Look how I turned out... Ok, maybe I just put you off of coin flips...

I'll say this: If it's going to take a week or more in the hospital, and she's got less than 65% of her lines complete, recast. If she has more than 65%, she's worth the wait.

Cristina, on the other hand, is not replying out of choice. Unless she has become ill, or has some previously decided thing she has to do, (Decided before she took on DYRL?) her role should be recast. I have respect and sympathy for those who are unable to do, due to factors outside of their own control, but I have none for those who don't put forth toward their obligations out of choice. I may have a harsh view, in comparison with yours, but, it is my own. Do what you will, Hikuro. Only you can make the decision.

Actually, other than the nose folding down 180' instead of forward 90' and the use of swing bars instead of the large "gullet", the VF-25 and VF-27's torsos do transform like the VF-19 with the upper torso going over the cockpit area which is now pointing upwards. The SV-51 on the other hand, while using similar swing bars, has the the main fuselage, cockpit and all, pointing down at an angle.

As for Ranka seeing the cockpit, if it's not a holographic cockpit, then maybe at that point, Grace and co. can tap into the superdimension fold plane that Ranka seems to have access to (same way the queen got through to her in episode 14, same way she got through to Sheryl in episode 25).

Never thought of that... It could be some sort of Fold Perception System...

My point is that the VF-27 and 25 transform more like the SV-51 than the VF-19, and share more similarities with the former. Besides that, it looks more like a SV-51 aesthetically, than a VF-19.

@Sumdumgai: I also liked the YF-24. There should be some more stuff about it...

I wouldn't say that cybernetic implants are becoming common place. Just because galaxy had lots of them doesn't mean everyone else is doing it. Galaxy is supposed to be a corporate sponsored fleet that's on the bleeding edge of technology, acting like an R&D think tank for it's corporate backers.

if anything the way things are on frontier (where cybernetics are banned) is more likely to be the norm.

also we have know idea where sheryl was born; her grandmother Mao was on the 117th, but her mother wasn't necessarily there as well (though I have a feeling she was at least on that fleet at one time.)

in any event she spent most of here life on Galaxy, though she explisitly states (I think in Star date) that she has no modifications or implants.

as for whether or not what what they use can be considered BCS; I think it is to the extent that it's a brain control system. he controls the operation of the fighter with his thoughts. the difference being instead of useing a special hemet that picks up his thoughts then transmits them over wires into the aircraft (like on the YF-21)

he has implants in his skull that pick up on brain activity (replacing the helmet itself) and send his thoughts to a wireless modem in his body that transmits to the aircraft (the same wireless modem is what lets him communicate with grace in cyberspace.)

once again the VF-27/VF-25/YF-24 DO NOT transform like the SV-51. if anything it transforms like the YF-19.

the only real similarity in terms of actual transformation is that both planes have the nose cone fold under into the front gear bays.

everything else is purely cosmetic. the feet, the Forward swept canards, the purple color and the way the wings appear to lay in battroid mode are the only real similarities, and it's not like the VF-27 and the SV-51 are the only things that have those. (well the purple color maybe.)

and the wings aren't really all that similar. they don't actually fold the same way, and they have completely different shapes. i think it's mostly the engines pods in the wings of the 27 which look the the boosters on the SV-51 that most people are drawing the similarities from.

There's like 3 dubs, though, so I may have gotten my info confused...

Galaxy was on the Frontier (Get it?)of technology, but I'm pretty sure that a 20 year old (or older) military technology would be a tiny bit old-hat, dontcha think? (In 2040, the YF-21 was tested using the BDI and BCS. They both required a neural implant. This means that by 2059, the implants would be 20 years old, at the least.) I don't think most of the other fleets have banned implants, it's just Galaxy encourages them.

We have nothing to go by for the YF-24 except its FIGHTER-ONLY schematic. It's out, off the bat.

However, the VF-25 and 27 don't transform at all like the VF-19. The Nose cone, for one, is facing directly down, instead of outward. Secondly, the torso folds in the same way as the SV-51. I can give you the wings, but even then, the 27 has fixed wings, unlike the VF-19. (Only later revisions had the fixed wing. Before that, they had VGWings.) Also, the wings fold up onto the back, not the legs. Look at the attached photos.

We agree, more or less, on the BCS. It's different, though similar.

I was saying BCS and BDI, because even with cyber brains, it's still their thoughts that are being sent as commands and they are still receiving and interpreting images, whether it be with an organic brain, a brain with cybernetic implants, or if it's a ghost in the shell.

The VF-25 also bears a great resemblance to the SV-51 as it's got the same transformation system as the VF-27 with a difference in the wings and feet. I definitely agree that Brera's VF-27 really conjures the image of Nora's SV-51.

If ever a VF-27 model was made, I'd paint on Nora's scheme, myself! XD

Eh... Somewhat what I was saying there. It uses a system based on the BCS and BDI systems. BDI is kinda iffy here, since Ranka apparently can see the effects. BCS seems to have been worked on, allowing it to be slave controlled from outside, rather than requiring a physical link to the plane, as BCS needed. (Funny how Guld's International Version voice actor went on to play Batou, eh? (He also played Ben (Kenobizaki) Dixon of Rowboat tech.)

Brera and Grace are cyborgs, so I'm not sure it could be even considered BDI/BCS anymore. Think more like the cyber brains from Ghost in the Shell.

I agree. BDI is outdated at this point, considering that more and more fleets are accepting cybernetic implantation. Galaxy is the perfect example, as most of its residents had cybernetic implants of some sort. (I can't remember about Sheryl, but... Is she even from Galaxy? I thought she was born on the 117th Research Fleet... Or maybe I'm mixing stuff up.) Look at the Ex-gear. It can slave control a VF-25 completely separate from it. (Most likely through a pre-programmed link between armor and plane, though it can be manually linked to another, as we see in MF 7, when he slaves Luca's RVF-25F.) It wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that, using software based on the BDI and BCS systems, Brera, or any cyborg pilot, can slave the controls of his plane directly to his cybernetic brain, possibly from long range.

The VFs in Frontier remind me of those in Zero. For one, the VF-0 is similar to the VF-1, which the VF-25 is similar to. Therefore the VF-0 is similar to the VF-25. The VF-27 bears a great resemblance to the SV-51. Not just in paint scheme, but transformation and wing design. (Thruster colors are also the same between the respective Valks.)

(Who agrees with me: VF-27(Brera)=SV-51(Nora)?)

well, the shots of the cockpit with the holographic image are so short that we can't say for sure if he's actually manipulating the controls.

then again, when grace if flying a 27, she's shown standing there in her normal clothing, in a sort of cyber space world thingy. so who knows.

That's my point. I can see conventional controls as the control system, but it's not the entire interface. The other part is plane-to-pilot. How does the whole crazy cockpit thing work? If it's some sort of Cybernetic implant thing, why can Ranka see it? And it looks to be similar to the screens on the flooring and side walls of the YF-19. Does it serve that purpose? It's just confusing. I think out-of-universe, it's just to look cool. In-universe, I dunno...

(Though, you can see his arms resting on the side consoles, with his hands raise somewhat. I would assume that those are the joystick and throttle.)

I think you can safely say that it's not on a BCS or using a BDI. Instead, it uses conventional controls with some sort of acid-trip display system. Its controls can be slaved to something else, similar to the VF-25/Ex-gear SCS. That explanation works for me. If only I could get my hands on a real one, and reverse-engineer it... THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!

Futuristic wi-fi and cybernetic implants? I'm actually serious that it's a wireless connection, since we see Brera controlling it from outside of the cockpit.

What about Ranka? She was all in the holographic-y cockpit (It doesn't actually look like that. It's some LSD tripped up effect portrayed in your Brian by the cockpit systems, via cybernetci implants) and she's not at all machine! Kawamori's gonna have trouble explaining this one...

And? I don't think anyone suggested that the VF-0 drains its fuel in seconds while hovering since it clearly doesn't.

It's mostly the YouTubers. They say that it wouldn't be able to, due to conventional turbines being too inefficient for the fuel supply to last that long. No, they're not MW people, but they do seem to care about the subject. (We MWs kinda obsess over the subject, knowwhatImean?)

So, how exactly does the VF-27 interface with its pilot?

Yeah, but my point is that even though they would eat more fuel, they wouldn't eat all of it in a few seconds, as is suggested by some speculationists. The VF-0 used conventional turbofans, which have been made MUCH more efficient anyway, due to the magic of O-tech, that were tuned to maximum output. It was still, nowhere near that of the VF-1, which used the first TRTs.

Radar in the head unit! We get it! (But not in the VF-1 and 0. They couldn't have had it. Just doesn't work that way.)

So, if the DYRL? Transformation Control is to be taken as canon (all the rest of Macross did), how do you choose between GERWALK and Battroid? It's the same flick of the throttle, right? I liked the SDFM one better, simply because it was simple. (If DYRL?'s a movie within the Macross mythos, how come more of it is taken as canon later on than the series?)

I just thought of something: Everyone always says that VF-0s would eat WAY too much fuel while in its non-fighter modes, since it uses conventional fueled turbines. They compare it to the AV-8 Harrier, which eats more fuel in VTOL than in conventional flight. This is a bad thing to compare it to for one reason: Overtechnology. It's pretty obvious. The technology that, when studied, led to the development of cheap, easy-to-manufactue giant robot planes, could result in more fuel efficient jet turbines, no? It makes sense... Sorry if that's off-topic. Just had to bring it up.

messing around with photoshop

Look at the left arm, very closely. IT IS FLOATING! New transformation technology? The force? Invisible Duck Tape?

You know, it should be noted that every, single VF has the nose radar facing down. The VF-19 is a possible exclusion, but even the 25 and 27's noses point down in Battroid mode.

The whole leg mechanism of the VF-1 relies on perfect timing. If it's not timed within milliseconds of the exact optimum, it could end in the loss of: A leg, an engine, the landing gear on that side, the entire plane. I think the VF-1 should be considered to be less complex than the others; it was designed first, both in real-life and in-universe. Even the VF-0 was designed later in Macross Universe. It's the same for the F-4 versus the F-14. The latter was designed after the former, and had more technological advances, as well as more complexity.

As for the whole "Pilot Safety" thing, think about it: The VF-1 had a heatshield. Yes, it was ECA. However, the VF-25, for example, has the bottom of the nose section, the nose cone (Which should be considered to be 2 pieces, due to the fact that it's round), and the frame of the plane, made of space metal, which is a form of alloy, resistant to damage, apparently. This is much better than just a heatshield and your head being protected by part of the fuselage. All that said, I'd say if you have a weapon capable of getting through ECA, it won't matter much. Something powerful enough to get through one layer would be strong enough to get through 3.

Valkyries: It all comes from somewhere.

Transformers: Where. The Hell. Did that. Come from?

This is why I like Kawamori, he's at least somewhat realistic. You know, as realistic as transforming giant robot planes go... Hell, a VF would probably be the mech to make it in real life, since it's so versatile.

Damage, Transformation, and You: Well, there's not much to say except, for one, the variable nature of VFs simply increases its ability to absorb pressure damage from an explosion shockwave: Look at Kakizaki's valkyrie. It began to basically fold up into a GERWALK when the OD Barrier overloaded. This is an example of that power. However, it also makes it easier to cripple. Battroids are slower, larger targets than Fighters. If you destroy part of a Valk, it won't be there if it transforms. If you bend something, transforming could rip said component apart. If your entire transformation system jams for whatever reason, the whole thing could be lost as it rips itself apart. The benefits must outweigh the risks, though, because we've only seen a few do this, despite the thousands of Cannon-Fodders not taking any damage like this. There are thousands, yet none of them faces this. Strange, there are only so many ways to destroy a cannon-fodder, yet that never happens.

Last night I was going through the same scenes and took some screenshots too, but you already posted them!

The thing that bothers me is the placement of the nose gear, which in the anime it usually is a bit further back, say more below the windshield than before it. It gives the VF-25 a more balanced look than in the Bandai kit. In the November issue of Hobby Japan, the Alto Custom CUSTOM shows the mod: the guy moved the nose gear a bit back and looks great IMO. After building the kit and watching the scenes, I seriously doubt that super packs can just snap onto it (the kit)...at least in fighter mode, it will just collapse, in gerwalk... can you really transform it without part-swapping? in battroid, the weight of back area will just make the model unable to stand on its own, Gundam action base will be mandatory!

I will wait and see, guess the toy engineers are working on that extra time and consuming seven-eleven frozen meals, drinking energy drinks 10 times stronger than red bull...hee hee.

It's very likely that if FAST or Full Armor packs are ever made, they will be conformal to the plane's shape, and since the VF-25's FAST Pack fits around the fuselage and is held in place by its bottom section in the anime, this could be taken advantage of, should a FAST pack be made for the model. However, you're right, only time (most of it at night) and Devoted Japanese Devs can tell...

Thanks for the review, Jarrod! Now, I've got to get $60, so I can get it upon its re-release. Grr... Money... The comparison between the VF-1 and the 25 just shows how small the Valkyrie was. Now, we've actually got variable fighters that can say they're the size of a fighter jet! Anyway, I've only ever half-finished a Bandai model, ever, but I saw the instructions online, and quickly discovered that some Zoids models are harder to build. This is a definite buy, if you like Macross Frontier, the VF-25, or Bandai. I wish I had one, now. This has gone up my wishlist, even past the Chogokins. Once again, great review!

ummm... how about this one without the flames....

and guys, thanks for the comments about the Nightmare's colors, i thought it was too dark, but that was because i was using a different PC monitor screen, but that's fixed now.

If she's off-limits, why is she all bent over in that seductive pose? Poli, your VF Girls are awesomeness. Keep it up, man!

If you ask me, it looks more like the SDF-2. More curvy and whatnot. The SDF-1 was really boxy. The SDF-2 was more badass, though. Great job, man!

schizophrenicMC, just a heads up, no pictures allowed in sigs.

If I put spoiler tags around it, will it be acceptable?