Master Dex

I stand corrected there. I honestly was not aware of those things about the 29 and 30. This makes me realize I definitely need to play Macross 30.

That reason for the 17 makes a lot more sense. Also explains why Basara never had issues with it (except for defolding too close to planets). They did clearly work out the kinks with the 17 though as it used fold boosters easier later.

A question is bugging me since Episode 6.

The VF-31 can fold on its own. (The VF-1 can't, as far as I understand, but the VF-1 in Delta is just a training mecha).

So, when Mirage was being cornered, why could she not just fold away?

We don't know for sure if the 31 has the built in fold booster the YF-29 and YF-30 had actually.. they've never been shown to fold on their own.

Also no, the VF-1 certainly couldn't, in fact no VF before the YF-29 could without an outboard fold booster. The first time we saw a fold booster in use was with the YF-19 in M+ (though it was still treated like a new technology in Macross 7 when Diamond Force used them... and it was even more stressful on the pilots there whilst not on Isamu strangely).

There's a mention in the novelization of Macross 30 that the YF classification was a calculated and technically-inappropriate move on SMS Uroboros' part, meant to allow them to defer their legal obligation to disclose the aircraft's specs to the federal New UN Government. They did it to keep their experimental tech under wraps for as long as possible.

(In a reverse of that same situation, the federal New UN Forces consider the Macross Galaxy VF-27 to officially be YF-27 because its specs were not disclosed as required by law.)

Gotta love them sly maneuvers.

I don't suppose there is any translation of that novelization. I'd love to play the game but my biggest issue is not being able to follow the story. I know it is a long shot that the novelization has a full translation, but it can't hurt to ask. (I know there is a good guide to the game from someone on this site as well, so I at least have that option.)

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, but are the VF-31s being used by Chaos under a similar situation to what the VF-25s were in Frontier, where they were being tested out by SMS before mass adoption? I also find it interesting that the VF-31 which is based of the VF-30 developed by SMS is currently only shown to be in the hands of a different civilian contracter, unless another party developed it.

SMS didn't develope anything. The YF-30 was probably made by Shinsei based on design lineage. LAI involvement is possible too, not sure if that has been revealed. Chaos likely contracts with Shinsei or whoever made the VF-31 to get theirs. SMS cut a deal to get their 25s from Shinsei and LAI by offering the data to Frontier NUNS as an early adoption thing.

The 31 seems more purpose built so I doubt it is meant to become a general use VF like 25 was implied to be for Frontier.

I think it IS the main VF of the NUNS, just that rollout is kind of slow because, y'know, galactic distances and all. By Delta's time, I'm sure most of the "main" galaxy is using 25As, and Delta happens to take place in the boondocks, so to speak, hence the 171s.

It took me a while to figure out why the 19 wasn't the main fighter. I kept telling myself it was just Frontier that choose to use 171s for cost and the proper NUNS used it. I understand now that just isn't the case. VF-19 became a special ops unit like the 17 was. The 171 made a better general purpose VF to replace the aging VF-11.

VF-25 was developed for Frontier with LAI help based on the YF-24 though. There is no reason to think NUNS is going to use the 25 everywhere unless the data from SMS really made them love it. For a general purpose 5th generation fighter a VF-24 that is not as specialized as the 25 seems more likely, if at all.

More interestingly, it seems SMS operates more than just 25s since an updated VF-19 that can probably keep up with modern VFs was being flown by Isamu for SMS (Isamu finally found a job that let him fly with less red tape, so appropriate).

Hmm... So the people with highest fold receptor levels in the universe are Basara and Mikumo?

(Given that Basara is alive by Delta era, but unless he was killed or "left this world" in some way, he should be alive. He is not from Windermere and aged 43).

Well, presumably. I am admittedly just making conjecture. Only SK could confirm that.

As for him surviving attacks from Protodeviln, yeah that did happen I'm sure. Not quite the same as surviving a Macross canon blast which is what I was specifically denying had happened. Basara's music actively weakened the Protodeviln so to me, he may also have weakened the effects of their attacks too. Yes that is a pretty big assumption but it fits the narrative so I'll go with it until told otherwise.

I think it was meant to just be something she overheard, either from someone in the Spacey or at Chaos.

Eh no not really. No one has quite been presented with his innate musical skill, let alone that he was an expert pilot that even Max complimented (though of course with the caveat that he was still better, cause duh). Besides, his status as anima spiritia implies he was unique. Not super by any means (he'd never think of himself that way) but still noteworthy.

Still stand by that no one stopped a cannon blast with music. I'd need a specific reference to believe I forgot such a thing.

This talk does make me consider a rewatch though... I recently watched the movie again. Dynamite 7 is also classic.

Face it they turned one of the greatest anime franchises into a comedic series featuring cute girlie girls. It can still be fun to watch (like this episode) but the Macross you remember is gone.

I fully disagree with this assessment. I mean it is not like Macross hasn't had levity before (even in the original series, granted it was downplayed a lot). Macross 7 was way more lighthearted but still had some pretty dark moments. To me Delta if anything is so far the perfect balance of all the best elements of the last 3 series. Got Frontier's political intrigue and high tech, there is elements of the original series' consequences of war in just the last episode (plus the fact that everything is world built based on SDFM), and it has the lighter toned fun music of M7, with a little more of the effects from Frontier's music (even if it loses the Kanno awesomeness).

Delta may just be the most Macross a modern day Macross series could be.

Also let's not forget... SDFM was originally planned to be a parody of mecha shows. It wasn't ultimately, but that is part of its roots.

Actually Frontier and Delta did that for me.

Taking the time to explain how fold song worked made it easier to swallow than just having to blindly accept that music and song magically could stop a Quantum cannon blast or speaker packs with ACTUAL speakers worked in space. Add to that the incessant repeating of the same 2 songs for nearly half of the show (the songs weren't bad, just too much of a good thing makes it awful!).

Well let's be fair, no one ever stopped a Macross cannon blast with a song, and they never used speakers in space. If you watch Macross 7 goes to impressive lengths to show how they recognize sound doesn't exist in space. The Sound Force valks only open proper speakers in atmosphere, in space they need to fire speaker pods. Later the sound boosters are used to amplify and project song energy, which Frontier and Delta have now more properly defined as being a fold wave resonance and the sound boosters were basically amplifiers of that. Basara clearly had a super high fold receptor level (how it measures against the likes of other artists is not clear, but I'd be willing to bet by his actions his is still the highest yet seen).

I know your examples likely were not meant to be direct, but that is a misconception of the show I see enough that is worth calling out cause it persists the negative view of it. As for the overuse of Fire Bomber's track lists... well that is entirely true. There was enough songs in the discography to avoid that, but they only stuck to the hits for some reason. Mind you, I'll always love Totsugeki Love Heart.

Things like this are why I like the idea that Mylene might be Lady M because that connection would be awesome and help validate M7 more. Also I needed to say more about Delta so I didn't get too far off topic, lol.

I want to see KumoKumo try to go against Basara (BasaBasa? NekkiNekki?) in a sing off to see who can get Gepelnitch to sing along with them.

Dammit, now I have Gepelnitch singing "Kiss kiss, feel love" in my head.

Basara will turn it into an epic duet and get Gepelwhatshisname singing even faster. Mountains will finally move, Mylene will be annoyed, and Galactic peace will be achieved.

Bombaa!

IIRC, SDFM got an extra 10 eps due to fan demand for more of the show. ironically without it, we wouldn't have the Emigration Project that has dominated subsequent series until Delta.

I am glad you are able to be keep your perspective on M7. I've seen some on these boards go all Trump supporter over the show...

That's true, I wasn't really talking about why it did, more just why only 10. It's still a pretty rare thing to see.

I actually like M7, lol. I didn't think I would when I first tried to watch it but then I fell in love with Fire Bomber plus more Max Jenius is always good (can you tell who my favorite franchise character is?). That being said I'm very pragmatic and even though I ended up being a fan I fully recognize the failings of the show and how silly it can be compared to the original's war story and Frontier's politics and high tech action.

Macross 7 definitely lightened me up to the power of song aspect in the franchise though; such that I am way more open to what Delta is doing than some people are.

Bomba for life!

Well, they are technically using the real-world definition of "quantum". The real definition, meaning "the minimum amount of a physical entity involved in an interaction". SF fans usually associate the term with zero point energy, which is the lowest energy state in a quantum mechanical system.

In Macross, the term "heavy quantum" refers to a special type of matter which is produced (and used) in various overtechnology devices that employ the unique physics of super dimension space in their operation.¹ The physics of its creation aren't explained, but heavy quantum is apparently produced using a crystalline super-dimension resonator made of fold quartz or - much more commonly - its low-purity synthetic equivalent known as fold carbon. What makes it so useful is that it exists in both real space and super dimension space simultaneously, and that 99% or more of its absolutely stonking impossible mass is on the part that's situated in super dimension space. Its mass is so unthinkably huge that, in sufficient quantities, its gravity will cause it to collapse in on itself and begin a fusion reaction if drawn fully into real space. The super heavy quantum produced using fold quartz has SO MUCH mass that, if drawn fully into realspace using a fold resonance, its gravity will be so intense that everything caught in its pull will be destroyed before its gravity summarily ejects it from the material universe and it ends up in super dimension space.

It's manipulation of that incredible mass that makes it so useful. It's used in tiny quantities to provide gravitational compression of fuel in thermonuclear reaction systems and in reaction warheads, it's used for spatial manipulation like gravity control and fold-based systems like fold communications or drives, the various forms of heavy quantum beam weaponry either fire it neat or let it fuse and "fire" it by funneling the resulting explosion toward the enemy, etc.

1. Thermonuclear reaction systems, dimensional energy conversion systems, gravity inertia control systems, fold systems, reaction weapons, and dimensional weapons for starters.

That's pretty cool. Still unobtanium at best, but I guess not entirely handwavium either. I say that reluctantly because the description almost sounds like it could pass for an explanation of dark matter which today is still baffling scientists. Massive gravitational interactions by something that is not physically there (as far as we can tell), hints of higher dimensional stuff? One could guess that heavy quantum, via super dimension space, is merely just the way this story chose to explain dark matter (and likely dark energy by extension but that is a bigger conversation). Things like that are one reason that while Macross isn't a hard sci-fi it still manages to take things a step beyond the handwaviums of other soft sci-fi, including Star Trek.

I'd go on but this isn't a discussion thread. I'd be happy to hear and discuss it more though via another topic or PMs though if you like.

I'm assuming it is a 2 cour anime like Frontier which would give it anywhere from 24 to 26 episodes. SDF Macross was originally a 2 cour but was extended by 10 episodes which is a bit unusual (likely only due to budget reasons that it didn't get more, not that it needed more really). Macross 7 is a notable difference in that it was a 4 cour anime which meant they planned for it to be well liked enough to manage up to 50 episodes. The show's black sheep status aside, that was clearly a correct prediction.

Typically, and mind you I am no expert on this at all, Anime that have a reasonable chance for success get a 2 cour broadcast and if they do really well they'll maybe get a sequel series (which to Americans would be analogous to a second season, Japan doesn't typically use the same methodology there). This is true of 1 cour shows too though. A recent example might be Aldnoah Zero which was clearly written to be 26 episodes but they split it up into 1 cour arcs that aired independently but under the same title. That is not too typical, but it worked for the story. I see a lot of stand alone anime shows though that are only 1 cour, or roughly 12 to 13 episodes. That tells me those productions were considered good enough to make but not expected to be popular enough for larger broadcasts.

Macross is huge enough to get at least 24 episodes in a given series by now. However I don't know if it is enough for them to want to risk budgeting a full 4 cour 50ish episode show again. Realistically, 24 - 26 is a good episode count for a self-contained story. 50 episode shows tend to resort to filler episodes and story padding just to make up the episode count (and Macross 7 is not innocent of that).

Admittedly this question is more aimed at Seto since he has the technical info on hand, but concerning the talk of all that... can you explain more about what heavy quantum actually is? I know what the word quantum means in the real world and it sounds like in Macross it refers to a substance, and since the show rarely talks about any of this... I could use a primer I think.

Actually, given how they function, I'd argue that storing weapons which use heavy quanta would be exceedingly safe. Heavy quanta is like the C4 of overtechnology warhead materials. It only goes off under very specific conditions that make accidental detonation almost impossible. Without the resonance fold effect to collapse its extradimensional mass into realspace, it's inert and basically harmless. You could shoot the warhead, set it on fire, drop it off a building, and be assured that it would not go off as long as the resonator was unpowered. In many ways, it's arguably a safer weapon to store than the regular missiles used by fighters and warships.

That can be considered true of even modern nuclear weapons, as when unarmed the most danger they pose is the fact they have a certain amount of radioactive material inside them... which is typically never exposed. Unless armed it is actually pretty hard to make a nuclear warhead detonate (because the process to cause it is pretty specific). Arming said weapons is also pretty difficult, which is done on purpose so accidents don't happen. That being said C4, like Seto used, is a better example for stability probably (due to the aforementioned radioactive material).

I think he means the all the green 262s piloted by Bogue and the rest of the knights are all the same. He wasn't referring to Keith's Hs model which is of course noticeably different.

if it the shoulder boom, how to fire it in cruiser mode? isn't it gonna blast the bridge?

Could say that about SDF-1 in attacker mode but it managed.

I'm still calling shoulder boom cannons ala Macross class.

They are dangerously close to overplaying the same songs like M7 did...

Ikenai Borderline? They've only played it in episode 1 and 2 (and both times were actually the same instance of the song, it just got split between them). So really it only played once in 6 episodes so far. By comparison Love, Halation the War, and the song from episode 3 have been played twice each (the latter appeared again in episode 4 right before the Aerial Knights stole the show with their battroids).

In any case I think Kawamori actually said the plan is to try to introduce a new song at least once every couple episodes if not more to keep things fresh.

One thing that's been bothering me, how do they get the planes onto the angled side decks?

They rose up from within that way. Each deck has elevators to the inner hangers I'm sure since it is designed to split like that for space travel.

I still think she got it from the destroyed VF-31A, off-screen. It literally appears out of nowhere from one scene to the next.

PS---Lady M? I currently vote Mylene. Who else who would have the interest/pull to create "Sound Force 2.0"? (and have an M-name)

Mylene also worked with Jamming Birds once, which is the earliest 'proper' Tactical Sound Unit (even though it was kind of a failure, but it is pretty much impossible to outshine Sound Force).

No harm done, lol. It is my duty to question such things when I see them though.

vf31s_projectorpod.jpg

Aerodynamically speaking, it would be better to launch with the pod closed, with the long side facing the wind. Talk about creating launch drag!

You mean the wind and drag... in space? Where they were in that episode? Where super parts are typically used cause they cause too much drag to be useful in atmosphere?

Always fascinating to see where ideas are drawn from.

I completed work on a vector of the Windemere crest and had some fun using it. I updated my desktop wallpaper and my phone wallpaper too.

Any chance you could send me that wallpaper?