veffidas

I've heard Shinsen is not doing the series now.

Really? It's still listed in the ongoing projects forum (or, at least, it was yesterday).

If they don't do it, I hope SOMEONE comes out with a sub that ISN'T h.264...because, as it stands, there's no sub that I can watch.

Judging from a Shinsen-Sub forum administrator's response, it's still active - i.e. it's listed as active on the main website [link]. Though, it's probably not advisable to venture into a fansubber's home and ignore the rules as the poster who garnered the response did.

Yeah, that was the most recent version I tried when you linked it before. For some reason, I immediately get this message when I load the file: "Abnormal playback termination." Or it just crashes. ::shrug::

Ah well. At least the Gattai team was kind enough to offer up their subtitles as an .ass file separately. I downloaded that, renamed the file to that of my original raw and opened the raw in Quicktime w/ Perian...and it worked! Subtitles! YES!

I'm still looking forward to AiA's version, since they seem to encode files in a way my machine can handle, but this will do for now.

Hmm, since the PowerPC and Intel makes do seem to have different maintainers, I guess the differences do become evident. Incidentally, I made a big stink earlier about how AiA I-Z's Episode 1 (Broadcast) did not open properly with Perian (error) or MPlayer (inaccurate time bar and desync issues halfway or so through) on my machine.

Glad to see that you've got something working in the meantime.

I'm using a 1.8 GHz G5 with 2GB of RAM, and it HATES these h.264 files, whether I use VLC, Quicktime w/ Perian or MPlayer (hell, MPlayer immediately crashes when I try to load any of the Gattai files - and I tried 3 different versions of MPlayer last night). So, yeah, I think I have a problem with h.264. Any other types of video files play perfect on this machine. I spent hours researching this last night, and it certainly looks like I'm not alone in this frustration.

I unfortunately have an Intel Mac, so I can't help you out there. Though, it seems odd that MPlayer would crash as it does play fine on my machine, assuming the packaged binaries aren't functionally different. Have you tried the custom MPlayer Universal Binary found at AnimeSuki?

I too am having one heck of a time running it on anything. I've got the CCCP installed, and both regular Windows Media and the Media Player Classic return errors. I'm plum out of ideas at this point, maybe I should just wait for AiA to turn their sub out, since I know their Ep 1 worked great for me.

It's odd that errors are being returned. Is the file complete, and does the file CRC check? Additionally, if you feel comfortable with it, you may try running CCCP's Insurgent to remove any potential conflicting codec packs previously installed on the machine.

Anecdotally, I've successfully run Gattai's *.mkv for episode two on a 1.7GHz 2GB machine with no audio/video sync issues using the most recent version of CCCP.

Bleargh, I've been using cccp for 3 years and I've never been able to get this high res h264 bs to run smoothly on my 2GHz cpu. Media player classic's video is 2 seconds behind the audio and VLC is constantly alternating between smooth and choppy video Shouta, please save us (or at least me) with your superior release

Mellow Yellow, have you tried the most recent version of CCCP? Their h.264 codec has much improved since last year. I'll try running Gattai's *.mkv on a 1.7GHz mobile machine and let you know the results.

Use k-lite (comes with coreAVC) instead.

The moral win of using CCCP is that the creators specifically sought out to not infringe on any intellectual property of others which is why CoreAVC isn't packaged with CCCP. By downloading K-Lite, you're essentially pirating CoreAVC. If you must steal CoreAVC, I'd recommend using CCCP in conjuction with CoreAVC only. CCCP is specifically tuned to ensure none of the packaged codecs conflict with each other, while K-Lite is supposedly a hodgepodge of potentially incompatible codecs.

For Windows, CCCP (Combined Community Codec Pack) is considered the gold standard by most fansubbers nowadays. It prepackages Media Player Classic, which will present a familiar interface for those who've been using Windows since at least Windows 98 (before Windows Media Player went all flashy with the UI). Specifically for h.264 playback, CoreAVC is the fastest and most efficient codec available, i.e. better for machines with older processors, but is not free ($7.95) through conventional means; nonetheless, the h.264 codec provided by CCCP is often up to par. (ffdshow and Haali Media Splitter are part of CCCP package as well.)

For Mac, either MPlayer or Perian paired with Quicktime are very viable alternatives. I use MPlayer most of the time since it has quicker seek functionality, though Quicktime with Perian allows you to play with pitch and playback speed independently. A prepackaged MPlayer Universal Binary can be found at the AnimeSuki forums: How to watch fansubs with your mac.

For Linux, I imagine MPlayer is the media player of choice as well.

Hmm....then i guess its just a matter of "preference". I prefer the words to be translated literally. Any "subtlety" will have to be discerned by the viewer him/herself. As a good example, AFK's translations tend to translate stuff in a very american context which although might be the true context of a particular scene but in terms of translation not exactly accurate. Like "Kairei kudasai" into "just get lost" rather than the more accurate "just go home". And remember the Gurren Lagann Nyoron subs that included the "F***" in the WHO THE F*** DO YOU THINK I AM....oh sure...added for extra context but the f-bombs aren't exactly accurate.

You might be too constrained in your view of "kaere" (かえれ, 帰れ); it can be used to simply mean "get out." You can plug it into http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi or http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dict for reference.

The addition of the four-letter-fs is very likely not an accurate representation of the tone/context in the case(s) you've cited, and is a lack of editorial discretion and a translator overzealously injecting his own world-view opposed to attempting to objectively interpret it.

I won't argue with the Japanese speakers since they officially learnt it after all....but to me the key to understanding japanese is just picking a general english word for their words and it WILL fit all contexts. "Hurry" can be used in a "Just do it" way as well as dozens of other contexts so it should be fine as a translation to non-japanese-speaking people.

Same with "Sumimasen" for "excuse me" but more generally appropriate if you understand it as "sorry for disturbing" then it will make most sense in all contexts.

While that may be a better way of translating for learning Japanese, it can fail for fansubbing as it will miss out on subtext and tone. I'd go with a fansub that gets the proper tone across than one that simply translates for general understanding.

Yeah, but my feeling with that scene was, it reads different if you use "hurry" instead of "just do it".

Quite true, considering my tone argument. However, to me, to simply translating it as "Hurry!" would probably evoke a more pleading tone. "Just do it" is more adamant, and perhaps likely more indicative of Sheryl's controlling diva personality.

It's really dependent on how the translator views the characters. After all, I doubt the female officer who guided Sheryl to her dressing room literally said "my ass" when commenting to herself on Sheryl, but it gets the tone and point across, which is fair enough. Nothing's going to be perfect.

I agree with sketchley and Shouta; it really depends upon the context in which the word is used.

While I don't know for sure (since I'm just guessing), I'm assuming it's the scene where Sheryl is telling Alto to get his ass moving and take her up after the fall on stage. If I'm correct, while I may not have translated it exactly that way, it's still perfectly acceptable as it gets her meaning across.

I don't think you read my statements properly; I'm assuming you're not familiar with playback/testing on the Mac platform. I basically said I was against VLC and that playback with other popular/mainstream Mac media players is flawed. Something is wrong with the file, especially since the Deculture version plays fine. I've also download your release twice.

"Triangler" and "Don't Be Late" have both been transcribed at gabrielarobin.com :

Don't be Late: http://gabrielarobin.com/165/macross-f-web...-be-late-lyrics

Triangler: http://gabrielarobin.com/186/what-bout-my-...riangler-lyrics (with improvements in the comments)

However, a more serious flaw that I find with the recent AiA I-Z release, is that it doesn't seem to be properly encoded/contained.

Using a Mac, Quicktime with Perian can't open it, and MPlayer has issues seeking and representing the the full length in the time bar. I don't use VLC on either Windows or Mac OS X, and my view is that a file should work on all media players. On the other hand, the Deculture edition from AiA I-Z plays fine. It's somewhat amazing the I took that screenshot using the boradcast sub.

Oh, yeah, when it comes to Sharyl's birthmark that's get mentioned all the time... I just can't find it. I watched the concert scene once again (I thought, with so much skin that she's showing it gotta be there somewhere), but with no luck spotting it. Is there a clean shot of it, and where?

It's not a birthmark; it's a fashion statement.

Anybody noticed Sheryl has a birthmark on her left leg?

You can see it as she's floating towards the "artificial gravity" area.

I doubt it's a birthmark since it's a set of hearts.

Looks like I was correct about them hating the ED ( http://anime.yourbb2.com/macross-frontier-t56.html ):

It should be noted, that we didn't put lyrics to the ED or Insert songs because the songs themselves are goddamn incomprehensible. I can't make farting heads or tails of it and come up with some sensible lyrics. So rather than put mangled ones in, we didn't put it at all. Once we get some official lyrics, they'll probably go in, hopefully we won't have to hear them every episode like we did Planet Dance in Macross 7.

Which is why I question the reasons behind the fansubs delay.

I'll reiterate my comments made in the episode thread: http://macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?s=&a...st&p=578360.

There's a lot of work besides translation that goes into making a fansub. Just because the dialogue is the same for the most part doesn't mean it won't take just as long to release.

Read the other posts in the thread there as well; nemesis_trooper tried his/her hand at it and came back with a sobering perspective.

There's also the fact that the ED cannot be properly translated due to Kanno's trademark non-language. This can cause some groups to want to stall until there is an official transcript available. For the most part, releasing a version 2 months later isn't something fansub groups desire nor is releasing an incomplete translated episode neither.

Well, the OP seems to have been committed to text already (though not yet translated):

http://www.gabrielarobin.com/165/macross-f...-be-late-lyrics

The website has other tidbits about Macross Frontier as well, including the OST release date.

Great. Code Geass already has fansubs for their season premiere.

What the heck is going on?

Code Geass is the hot fad in Japan right now. Fansubbers generally follow the Japanese market, despite applying its own western filters - i.e. not many are going to sub a shounen-ai (gay/boys' love) series. What's popular in Japan will generally dictate what fansubbers lap up. Macross isn't very popular, especially when compared to Code Geass.

Just a thought but my thoughts are the quicker the fansub, the worse the quality hmm? Just my two cents

Not necessarily, it really depends on the team and its resources. Some fansubs do fall into the category of download, watch, and trash while others are release for "archival" purposes. A good mix of speed and quality is quite possible, though.

we all should contact the fansubbers to sub episode 1. its maybe they thought deculture edition is the same as the broadcast one. i emailed shinsen subs and you guys should do it too. lets make our voices heard.

If the group is actually dedicated enough to pick up Macross Frontier, I'd actually expect them to already know.

Not necessarily. I've translated quite a few songs, and only a couple of comics and things of that nature.

Of course, I had the lyric booklets, which made the whole enterprise MUCH simpler. I think the biggest problem with songs are if the lyrics are especially weird. I was translating Shiina Ringo, and I was constantly backtracking..."Did she really say he reflected off her LUNGS?" I would imagine that translating Yoko Kanno would have similar perils.

Currently-airing anime usually don't have lyric books available as the singles/albums usually are released later. And translating from speech and text don't amount to exactly the same thing. One could be illiterate yet be familiar with spoken dialects or vice-versa.

Regardless, I was simply attempting to point out that there are a fair number of logistics that need to be considered besides translation. For instance, due to the nature of the cuts, timing scripts need to be edited in the least. If the concert was extended with a different version of the song sung (I seem to recall a comment to that effect), it needs to be retranslated and re-timed. Some groups looks for quality raws as well, and even attempt to filter the output so that it looks better than the raw originally obtained. Encoding and muxing are also nontrivial with regards to time to release as well. A simple single pass quality-check would reasonably be the length of the episode as well.

Just because much of the material was reused from the Deculture edition doesn't mean that the fansub will come out faster.

A lot goes into a "quality" fansub besides translation. Among others there're: timing, typesetting, karaoke, and encoding/muxing.

My guess on the bottleneck for this episode? Translations of the opening and ending themes. Translating song is quite a bit more difficult than regular speech.

Ah, yes, it is in the dialogue. Well, that nullifies my argument there. I can't quite say it significantly changes my view of the rather high-speed pacing, however. Cut after cut, without time for reasonable flow, is still a little bit jarring. Maybe the DVD edit will get it right with the additions of the broadcast edit.

A DivX 6.6 version is supposedly already out. (Eh, it looks like it's the Deculture Edition.)

Mr March, I'm taking the liberty to unspoil some of your non-spoiler comments for the sake of discussion.

Overall, the gains and losses seem on par with each other. This is the nature of editing. Of course, this alternate version has to compete with Macross fans who have the Deculture Edition tattooed on the inside of their eyelids after watching it about a hundred and one times over since December. In that respect, even the Deculture Edition would fail to impress were the release dates of the two version reversed.

Ultimately, I'm glad we have both edits of Macross Frontier. Like Macross Plus, I enjoy watching both OVA and Film versions and I'll be more than happy to enjoy the two edits of MF episode 1 all the same.

I'd tend to disagree. As I said, in my first post concerning this broadcast cut, I don't have the Deculture edition impressed into memory; I even started critiquing portions that were coincident in both. So the Deculture edition definitely wasn't fresh in my mind when giving my perspective.

Conversely, I found the lack to the Ghost scene make the episode fail to explain the sudden full out attack on the enemy. It makes the Macross Frontier fleet seem like a bunch of trigger happy drones. "We can't confirm the status of one pilot? Let's throw everything we've got at 'em!"

That said, I'll still look forward to what the rest of the series is like.

With specific reference to these events, yes. However, I'd say that their flaws were probably exacerbated by the quick-paced edits from the rest of the broadcast cut.

Like I said in my initial post, the wasn't enough backstory in this cut to explain the actions of the M-Galaxy/Frontier fleet. Why were they launching an all-out attack on an enemy and threat they spent virtually no time to assess (the Deculture edition actually handles this)?

There are also a few other events that just make little sense either from the broadcast edit. The paper airplane that Alto catches just *happens* to be there, flying idly among the clouds for Alto to catch, while Alto actually throws it there himself in the Deculture edition.

As I said in my first post, they need to manage the pace better in the subsequent episodes and take the time to explain things. Otherwise, it's really going to be lacking in story and will simply be action, action, action.

The only problem I saw with the editing was the way you see Lanka changing and then showing up with a different dress at the show, not enough time to show the transition, obviously she was watching the news reel in the morning before school, and the show was later during that day, as for the guys being backstage and then going to the park, they complained that they didnt get a dressing room, so it makes sense to leave the venue and go change somewhere else, unless of course they dont mind changing infront of a bunch of strangers.

The whole sequence with Ranka getting to the concert (before meeting Alto) was wrought with bad edits. When she gets off the subway, she was overrun be everyone else getting off. And immediately after she's seen exiting the station. There simply wasn't enough time for the viewer to absorb and enjoy (and laugh at) Ranka getting stomped over. Also, once she does get into the crowded area a pops up and down for a view, she starts running off and then is immediate in a totally empty back alley with no transitioning; crowds simply don't die off like that.

Furthermore, When Alto questions "Nyan-nyan?" Ranka immediately goes into the dance; no time for her to move from being right under Alto's nose to be that far away for Alto to have a full-body view of her dance jingle - even if it was only a hop-step away (i.e. they should have animated it).

(Edit: It look's like these events played out exactly the same way in the Deculture edition. So this is moot.)

Basically, the flow of time was really screwed up in this broadcast cut. I'll need to re-watch the Deculture edition to see if it was any different, but the timing here was just too unnatural for comfort.

Also, has anyone seen Macross Compendium lately? It's going Wiki. (I had to look up Gigile's name for my last post.)

This is a review coming from someone who hasn't watched the Deculture edition since it's release.

The series OP animation sequences are pretty characteristic of today's anime OPs: a lot of characters floating in the foreground, with animation from the rest of series in the background. It doesn't feel terribly "Macross-ish" but it's indicative of today's anime presentation style. This broadcast cut, unfortunately, was unable to leave the viewer in a sense of psuedo-realism, i.e. allowing the person to distinguish time properly. As others have said, it was straight from one cut to another; there weren't enough lead-in and lead-out scenes (and time) to allow the the viewer to get comfortable with the story and seqeunces.

There wasn't enough background either; for instance, why was the fleet engaging all of its battleship so suddenly against an enemy the viewer (and possibly the U.N. Spacy fleet) knew so little about? There was no window into the reasoning and decisions made to launch the attack. It somewhat leaves you with a feeling that U.N. Spacy was like "Oh, there's something out there? Let's attack it!"

Also, concerning the experienced pilot (in Roy's colors), I really had no idea why he was aiming for the red enemy. This cut didn't leave me with the feeling that the red enemy was a Gigile or Millia worthy of special targeting. Sheryl's fall also seemed a little unnatural. I'm assuming the shock wave from the attack was what caused Alto's teammate to error from the cuts, but simply taking the animation as is made it look like the pilot himself was a dunce, crashing into Alto. So was Sheryl's fall a result of Alto coming at her or the shock wave? All in all, it just didn't seem like there was a particularly good reason for that scene to happen, save moving along the (possible love) story.

And, yes, the pacing was too fast. It left me wondering whether my media player was processing the stream faster than it should have been, and I had to view it in two different players.

All in all, I just don't think this episode allow the viewer to get comfortable with the potential upcoming story, though it did create and aura of action and suspense (not a terribly good one though). Hopefully, the subsequent episodes take things a little slower and properly set up scenes with timing and animation.

Would it be possible to have a single main thread pinned with links to each chapter's unpinned thread (possibly only also keeping the newest chapter pinned)? The numbers of pinned topics just for the manga seems to be getting a little excessive, making new topics harder to find.

Thanks for the scans.

Yes, it works for my university's mail server now. (Ironically, I was using Yahoo! as a substitute during the midterm.)

However, after initially reading the notice (and trying before orguss01's reply), it took my e-mail account 2 days to received the e-mail change notices, but switching it just now worked like a charm. Thanks.