Vic Mancini

The SV-51 is just an amazing design. Possibly Kawamori's most interesting Valk. I'm blown away by these pics. Yamato nailed it perfectly. It still looks like it could be a potential QC nightmare, but the look is flawless. Anyone know if the air brake / heat shield / turbo fan cover piece can flip up in F mode? The way the fans position in F mode with the heat shield and the lower vents, and then all re-position in B mode to double as a pseudo-backpack thruster is just genius. it would be a shame if the airbrake couldn't flip up to reveal the fans in F mode. And I'm still a little bit peeved about the non-gold canopy, but whatever. It's a small gripe on an otherwise near flawless interpretation of the 51.

Hey you're right, that is a lot better. I retract my flying sandwich statment. I still think it could be better though. This puppy needs to be flat and sleek with a smooth undercarriage.

Bah. I disagree. The 1/72 looks like a flying sandwich of legs and arms from any angle that isn't top down. I hope the 1/60 is a massive improvement over the 1/72, but it's going to be a challenge for Yamato to make something as line art accurate as their previous valks. The YF-21 uses a lot of anime magic to cram those giant legs into the leg bay and to make those arms magically fold into the side walls or wherever they go. How they're going to fit everything into a profile this thin is going to be interesting. ...Although the D-Stance did a fairly decent job.

Those final two Gerwalk mode pics are just beautiful. Can we get some close ups of Yang, (co-pilot), and how he fits in the cockpit?

How is anyone supposed to answer that? Nobody knows what method will be a 100% sure fix. If you're worried about your shoulders, (which you seem to be), and you think loosening screws will help, then go for it and hope for the best. Nobody can guarantee anything at this point. The severity of the problem hasn't even been accurately assesed, and even if it was, nobody has had enough time to properly test any of the solutions to see if they will withstand the test of time. Ask this question again in about a year.

I totally agree. A gold canopy would enhance the overall look of F and G mode so much. I really hope they do it, but I've got a feeling they won't. Maybe on the Nora release though.

Who says you can't have conflict involving mecha at a training academy? Isamu and Guld weren't exactly on the front lines either. There isn't a whole lot of difference between a training academy and a test pilot/prototype competition. IF it is about a flight academy, (and that's a big assumption given the small amount of info we have to go on), it could be a terrific foundation for mecha combat. Top Gun was about a flight academy too. I'm not saying that was a good movie, but there was plenty of drama and suspense in the dogfighting scenes even if most of those scenes were training and not actual life and death combat. I actually kind of hope the new series IS about a valkyrie flight academy. That would be pretty interesting IMO. ...Lots of potential in a story like that.

Since Roy's valk is Hikaru's valk for over half the series, I'd say it's the more iconic of the two despite the 1J being featured in bumpers. All Hikaru ever did in his 1J was get shot down anyway. I do personally like the 1J head better than the 1S, though.

It sounds like it would slip off easily when standing in B mode, too. That's too bad.

^ What he said. I've never liked the fold booster or even the FPs for the 19, so that doesn't interest me. All I'm interested in is alt color schemes. Not a fan of the Super Nova ones...I want to see some non-cannon, possibly low vis types.

I'm actually hoping for a cannon fodder, myself.

Except it's not a sub-par item. Even with mistakes, it's extraordinary. Nobody else has ever made a YF-19 even close to this good. That's why it's well worth the money to so many macross collectors. There are a lot of people on this forum trying to explain that to you and you just don't get it. Some people have different priorities and expectations for things. Some people value things more than others. Just because you feel stupid for owning flawed Yamato products does not mean everyone feels the same, and it does not make everyone stupid.

Gold canopy? It looks like it's going to be clear and it's probably too late to change now. Oh well...not a deal breaker by any means since it looks okay clear, but I think a gold canopy would be such a sweet finishing touch on those beautiful F and G modes.

Build quality is obviously a higher priority for you than it is for me. For me, aesthetics and design are top priority, and build quality is second. (Maybe that's because I'm not American?) I look at "good anything" out there that's well designed and the 1/60 19 is pretty remarkable in my eyes. The innovations that Yamato made to overcome the design obstacles they had in front of them amaze me. Apparently I contradict myself a lot on this forum, so you should probably get used to it. Let me try to explain. The crooked gunpod and tight fuselage bother me about 3%. The non-locking torso in B&G mode bothers me another 5%. The look, build, and design of the rest of the 1/60 satisfy me about 92%. That is how I am genarally happy. I guess I shouldn't speak for anyone else, but I suspect others feel similar to me judging by the comments I've read on this forum. The 1/60 YF-19 is about 92% of what I've been dreaming about since I first saw Macross Plus. It made every other rendition of the YF-19 that I used to think was cool look not cool. Even a one-of-a-kind custom Hasegawa. Is the 1/60 unnecessarily fragile? ...maybe, maybe not. I don't really know. All I know is that if the trade-off for durability is looking like the 1/72, I'd rather own something delicate and finical. So please don't call me weak and slow minded for not having the same criteria and priorities as you. And for the love of God, please relax. The last thing I want to be is a source of stress for you.

That's the only respectable mode of the 1/72 and it still looks horrible compared to the 1/60, IMHO. You may only care about battroid, but I'm pretty sure most consumers care about the other two modes. And the differences between the 1/72 F&G and the 1/60 F&G are night and day. Many forum members, (myself included), consider the 1/60 to be the most accurate representation of the 19 out there. The 1/72 has its charm but it's a joke compared to the 1/60 especially in F&G. The Bandai VF-19s don't compare either, nor does the SHE or Liquid Stone. Granted the 1/60 has a crooked gunpod and QC issues, (and believe me those do bother me), but nothing compares to it in terms of accurately representing the YF-19. It surpasses even the custom variable Hasegawas that everyone drooled over for 5 years since we first saw them in Model Graphix June 2002. That was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. The disconnect we're having is that you want to compare it to other toys because you're obviously a collector with broad tastes. And yes, other non Macross/Yamato toys might be less expensive and have better QC and durability, (I wouldn't know), but until someone makes a better YF-19 it really is "apples and oranges" for Macross-specific collectors like myself, as tired as you think that argument may be. I'm not trying to "tell you off", I'm just trying to explain how it is that a lot of us are in fact extremely satisfied with the Yamato 1/60 YF-19, and probably shouldn't be associated with a "slow-minded" connotation for it.

^ Quoted for truth. I'm actually surprised that BOB hasn't been banned for the way he talks to everyone in here.

So then stick to Bandai and SOC Gunbuster products. The thing is, you obviously collect a lot of stuff, so it's different for you. A lot of us, (myself included), only care about Macross products, and so far no other company has made anything that compares to the 1/60 YF-19. So what's the alternative? Should everyone not buy it as a form of protest and just not have a YF-19? I wish the QC was better too, but it's better than nothing. Far better. It sounds like most people who needed to have that YF-19 are pleased with their purchase. Until another company comes along and starts designing better Valks it's Yamato or nothing. That's just the way it is.

It's looking good. Still no gold canopy, though.

Wow, I'm shocked by this. Although taste is personal and you're entitled to not like it, I think using words like "insipid", "mind-numbing", and saying there are no themes/motifs, or that there is a lack of varied instrumentation, is unfair. It's a quality soundtrack that has earned a lot of critical praise, and is more appropriate to the material in many ways than the original music. I'd almost suggest downloading the soundtrack, [especially season 2], and listening to it away from a BSG context, just so you're listening to it objectively and not comparing it to the old music. But it sounds like your mind is more than made up, which is why I say almost. On a side note, it's interesting, and kind of confusing to me, that you mention Blade Runner as one of your fav soundtracks especially considering your criticisms of the new BSG music. Blade Runner a great soundtrack and I listen to it often, but I consider it a lot more ambient than melodic. It's actually one of the least melodic/thematic soundtracks I can think of, and a lot less thematic than the new BSG music, IMO.

You still aren't getting it. In fact, you're actually more confused than I originally thought. I don't know how to explain myself any more clearly than I already have. I've already answered this many times. This is exactly why he is not the epitome of being a [starving or not] artist. I feel like I've said this a hundred times, but if Basara was the epitome of an artist archetype, he wouldn't be concerned with Minmay-style culture warfare or spiritial enlightenment. He'd be writing songs for the sake of making good music. Basara's goal from the very beginning was to do more with his music than to simply make art. If you're implying that I've inaccurately recounted what I'm attributing to you, then I have to say that's the pot calling the kettle black. If that was just a general statement about others you've debated with in the past, then never mind. The problem is you're choosing to discount what I'm saying now in favor of words you think I said five or six posts ago. There has to be a reason why you're disregarding my most recent elaborations. It can't be that you're simply skimming over my posts too quickly. There's intent there. You seem to prefer holding me to something you see a possibility of fault in rather than listening to an explanation. This is probably why you're so confused about what I'm saying. I'm fine with people disagreeing with me if I'm understood, but the problem is you don't seem to want to understand me before you rebut.

No need to get worked up. Just relax and this will be a much less frustrating experience. Actually if you want to split hairs, I never said anything about protesters entering your car against your will. My analogy was simply protesters outside of a government building, as in in a public space where thier signs could not be ignored by the employees inside. You were the one who added the part about the protesters trespassing into your car. So you were actually the first one to "introduce a new premise to discount my previous comment", and your response was never directed to a "comment as written." ...which is fine by me, I never wanted to bicker about it who said what/when. I don't mind that you made your own analogy because it helped me to understand more specifically what you have a problem with in regards to Basara's actions...it's clearly the trespassing aspect for you, [speaker pods], more than it is the actual music itself, and I understand that now. Once I learned this, I brought us back on track by putting forth a new analogy that resembles the to the original events of Mac 7 more accurately. ???????????????????????????????? I am totally confused by this statement. Did I indicate somewhere that you weren't the one who introduced that idea? I was, and still am, arguing against it. But for some reason I keep failing to make you understand that I'm arguing against the artist part and not arguing against the starving part. I have not changed my position. I have only referred to Basara as an "artist" once that I can see in all the many posts I've made in this thread, and I've made many many many more statements indicating that Basara is obviously more than an artist because his music has always been about doing something bigger than to simply write songs. In fact, my very first post in this thread in response to Valkyrie Addict's comment about Basara being flawed because he doesn't change, was made because of how closely Basara resembles a spiritual revolutionary type of figure, and that change would be wrong for that type of character. "The core of Basara's character is his unwavering conviction and commitment to what he believes in. He believes he can stop wars and even literally move mountains with his music." -Vic Mancini I've been [unsuccesfully] trying to explain from the very start that Basara's music was always about doing something bigger than making art, and that Basara's conviction to his beliefs is an essential part of his character and that, IMO, if he were to change it would undermine the strength and purity of his spiritial vision. I will admit that Basara is an artist in many ways, that is obvious. I don't think I ever said he "wasn't an artist - period". What I said was that he wasn't written as an artist archetype so much as he was written as prophet/messiah archetype. His goal was not to write good songs for the sake of exploring new artistic/musical territory. His goal was always to do bigger spiritial things with his music. That's one of the things that makes his character closer to a spiritual revolutionary/leader than an artist. And you can't be the epitome of the starving artist notion if you're written more like a prophet/spiritual leader archetype than an artist archetype. Understand? I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, (see my interactions with Sketchley and NeoverseOmega). What I have a problem with is being misunderstood and having my words twisted around. I have a problem with you saying things like, "you changed your position," when I really didn't. And I have a problem with you focusing more on who created what analogy when instead of debating the topic. You keep telling me that my position is one thing when it is actually something else. I keep trying to explain myself more clearly for you to understand, but it doesn't seem to be getting through. It feels like you're more focused on manufacturing some kind of contradiction instead of actually trying to understand where I'm coming from. I will admit that I am not the greatest writer. I'm not always as clear as I can be and I may use words from time to time that might lead someone to believe that my position is different from what it actually is. But when we get to those crossroads and I try to clarify for you what my stance is and explain to you what I originally meant and why it came across a certain way, you need to listen to me instead of holding me to some not-so-ideal wording choice that I made in a previous post. This isn't a competition in who can poke the most holes in the other person's logic, (at least it's not for me.) If you want to have a discussion with me you need to be more interested in knowing what my opinions actually are than what specific words I use. And then you need to choose to agree/disagree without the hostility.

I don't know, I still can't help but disagree with this. The only reason it's not expected is because nobody knows about Anima Spiritia except for the Protodeviln. Hypothetically, if everyone knew what Anima Spiritia was, and that Anima Spiritia defeated the PD in the first place, and that Basara was the last known Anima Spiritia, then Basara would most definitely be expected to deliver. It was only the circumstances of history being lost that conflicted with everyone's expectations for Basara, not his lack of significance as a savior. Secondly, most people came around before the end of the series and recognized Basara as their only hope against the Protodeviln. Eventually they believed in Basara and had faith that he could save the universe. Doesn't that qualify him as an expected deliverer? If not, he was the closest thing they had to one. I see what you're saying. Fair enough. I totally agree because I don't think the writers intended to define anything one way or the other. I think that they intended to make the question itself a possibility without committing to any one direction. The conditions are in place so that one could validly ponder Basara's divinity and not be out of line, [just like we're doing now].

Disagree. Whether or not Basara clinically dies, I think the symbol is still present and intended. The episode is titled "The Death of Basara" after all. It would not be named that if Basara's catatonic state was not meant to be viewed with a certain degree of extra significance, and I really don't believe it would be named that simply to lead on viewers who have yet to watch the episode. It's just one of the many spiritual parallels in Mac 7 that can't be ignored, IMO. I'm not saying he's holy or divine by the definition of the term, [that's never been my position], but there is most certainly a vague reference there. He's meant to seem divine from certain perspectives. Agreed. It's all partially rationalized supernatural physics, but not so rationalized that it's completely explained by natural physics either. And that's usually what good sci-fi/spiritual stories are made of...until they go to far with it. Midichloreans for example. Usually it makes you question if there's really something going on behind the scenes or if it all just seems mystic because it's not fully understood. Messiah doesn't necessarily mean God/Christ as some of you seem to think. I've always defined the word as nothing more than a [very special] savior or liberator of slaves. Basara was most definitely a messiah by that definition. Even though Mylene was also Anima Spiritia, I think Basara was the only known person in the Galaxy with a strong enough gift to liberate the Varuata slaves, and to put a preemptive halt to the enslavement of the Mac 7 fleet, and who knows who else? ...Eventually we might all be part of the spiritia farm, right? Here's more definitions I found: Mes·si·ah 1. the promised and expected deliverer of the Jewish people. 2. Jesus Christ, regarded by Christians as fulfilling this promise and expectation. John 4:25, 26. 3. (usually lowercase) any expected deliverer. 4. (usually lowercase) a zealous leader of some cause or project. 5. (italics) an oratorio (1742) by George Frideric Handel. www.dictionary.com Basara definitely fits 3 and 4 from the above, and number 3 from the following: Mes·si·ah 1. also Mes·si·as (mĭ-sī'əs) The anticipated savior of the Jews. 2. also Messias Christianity Jesus. 3. messiah One who is anticipated as, regarded as, or professes to be a savior or liberator. I think messiah is a much more fitting label than prophet, actually. Like you just said, Basara never actually prophesizes anything. He only has a vague feeling and faith that his music can be more than just music which probably doesn't count. I just happen to think he was written much like a prohpet archetype, especially with all the symbolism, allusions, and parallels to various spiritual icons. Most definitely agree.

Hmmm... I'm sensing some hostility on your part. I'm just trying to have a civilized debate. I'm not a threat to you. Actually, I think you need to read my post again. I think you missed where I was trying to acknowlede what you're talking about: "Once I clarified that your beef had little to do with the actual music/signage, and more to do with the trespassing aspect, (intrusion into your vehicle)" -Vic Mancini Where did I claim it was the same? I said I changed it back to the original scenario by creating a new analogy that resembled the events in the anime more accurately. It's a new analogy, and it's the original scenario...original as in what was happening in the anime. Maybe I worded it badly. My mistake. I sincerely apologize. Whatever the case, do you understand now? Forget the starving. Erase it from your mind. An artist is an artist whether he's making money or not. A prophet is a prophet whether he is making money or not. Financing has nothing to do with being one or the other. You said Basara is the epitome of the starving artist notion. I'm trying to explain to you that I'm not disagreeing with the starving part, I'm disagreeing with the artist part. I'm saying he was written much more like a prophet/messiah archetype than he was written as an artist archetype. Understand? Not that it needs to be said, but I obviously disagree. I see way too many spiritual, religious, and mystical references around Basara's character to believe that they were unintentional. [Many pointed out by NeoverseOmega].

I'm not throwing in a totally different scenario, I'm throwing in the original scenario. I was confused by how you could equate singing with rape, which is why I posed the protest signage analogy. Once I clarified that your beef had little to do with the actual music/signage, and more to do with the trespassing aspect, (intrusion into your vehicle), I brought the conversation back on topic by posing a new analogy that is more directly applicable to the events in the anime rather than continuing down an avenue that will invariably get us no where. I don't understand what jobs or income have to do with anything. He could be a messiah/prophet and still have no jobs or income. Financing is irrelevant to being a prophet or artist. Maybe I'm not being clear... Forget about the starving part. What I'm trying to say is that Basara was not an artist so much as he was a spiritial motivator or revolutionary. He didn't make music for music's sake, he used music as a tool to liberate and grow spiritia. He was liberating everyone, not just the Protodeviln and a small colony of enslaved colonists. They were just the tip of the iceberg. His songs were just as much for his own people and the often war-mongering military as it was for the Protodeviln. Like NeoverseOmega said: If you buy into the logic of the Anime he's pretty selfless (after all, if he really is "spiritually enlightened" then he doesn't HAVE to know that the protodeviln will show up. He just has to believe that if they encounter anything out there while exploring space, he will be able to move it's heart) if not, well he's a delusional prick. Basara and Ray were on a mission to make everyone and anyone realize that love triumphs over war and that nothing positive comes from retaliating against an attacker with violence. Of course there was. Basara may not have known about past Anima Spiritia or the original Protodeviln conflict with the Protoculture millions of years ago, but Basara most certainly had a vague predetermination for his music and knowledge that he was different from others. Even Ray knew it. They had a plan to change the world with Basara's music from the very start. The predetermination was also present the very first time that he flew out into the middle of a Protodeviln/Varuata attack. He had absolute conviction and belief that his songs would make a significant impact on the hearts of the warring forces. It's not like his ability was an accidental discovery that randomly occurred in the middle of a battle...Basara had faith in what his music could do before hand.