Vic Mancini

Why so many of the VF-1? The size of them all is identical.

You only need one VF-1 to show it's size relative to the others.

And I agree, get the other Valks on there. SV-51 too!

SDF-1 is easy to remember,

Boosh! Nice example.

I rest my case.

The VF-1 appears in Macross Frontier, looking the same as it does in all of the original Macross productions. So no, the VF-1 has not been retroactively redesigned as a chronological result of the more aerodynamic appearance of the VF-0 in a prequel series.

Oh.

See that I didn't know. I'm saving Macross Frontier so I can watch it all at once.

Never mind then.

Probably because I'm used to hearing/reading YF//VF, two letter designations sounds right, and three letter sounds off.

Just curious...

Do the real world designations for the YF-22 and YF-23 sound off to you? ...Since most real world in service fighters use a single letter designation and you're used to hearing one letter? Ie: F-18, F-22, etc... ?

Plus two letter is easier to remember, as there's one less thing to not forget.

So why weren't things shortened to one letter then, when the series was being created?

If remembering letters was actually a concern they could have shortened it to a one letter designation and just called it a V-1 Valkyrie instead of a VF-1 Valkyrie. I don't think remembering a lot of letters was the reason.

If two letters is better than three, then surely one letter is better than two.

I don't buy this "less letters sounds better" argument.

Because having three letters doesn't sound as good as two

What? Since when?

All kinds of auto manufacturers use 3 letter designations for their car and motorcycle models, and it's a highly competative business where every brand and marketing edge is calculated and exploited. I've never heard of any trends indicating three letter designations being passed over for two letter designations just to avoid the third letter . Does that mean one letter is better than two, then? Why not just Y-19 and Y-21 then? Or are two letter designations the magic number?

For some reason your answer annoys me.

YVF sounds better to me, and more importantly makes more sense.

Just copying real world prototype fighter designations.

To this day, I still don't know why they didn't call them the YVF-19 and YVF-21.

That would make a lot more sense than just YF-19 and YF-21.

I'm just wondering if the VF-0 implies something of a visual retcon for the VF-1 like DRYL is (in the Zero case not officially no doubt), or if everything is explained away as the VF-0 being a testbed, and only some features made it into the production version.

I vote retcon.

I'm sure if Kawamori could go back and re-do SDF Macross, (Lucas style), he'd have more modern looking valks replacing the old VF-1 design complete with cool features like retina tracking sensors wired to the Battroid head lasers. I think we're supposed to assume that it's being implied that the VF-1 had a lot of cool tricks and features that we were never shown in the anime because it was designed in the 80s.

You know... it might complicate the mechanism a bit, but why can't the tails fold in with a combination of rotating and sliding? If the tails had a double joint to first cant inwards and then rotate and slide in, you can fit a much larger tail than with a simple pivot.

This is just a quick test, and maybe not worthwhile since it's already in development.. but if the outer bulged panels of the legs are kept thick enough, and the tails have enough room to slide in... well, I think this is a plenty decent option for a large tail. I did shrink it some, but this tail is roughly 90% of the overall size of the one in the lineart posted earlier.

That's impressive!

Here's another idea...

And once the fin is folded down into place, it would be on a hinge that can rotate forward/backward so that the leading and trailing edges of the fin can line up parallel to the top and bottom edges of the lower leg.

I think there are lots of ways to do this without resorting to a tiny tail fin.

The fins fold/flip forward into the leg, not down/back. The pivot point is at the middle or rear of the base of the fin. (Yamato's first toy was wrong in that regard)

Big thing to consider--the FINS ARE CANTED OUTWARDS. Sharply. They can't fold straight down into the leg. When retracted, they must angle across, crossing from the outside of the leg to the inside. Yet still not get in the way of the gear bay inside the leg.

The fins do not sit just barely inside the outer edge of the leg, between the side of the gear bay wall and the outer wall of the leg. They fit angled, above the gear bay.

Bad rough drawing showing fins extended and retracted, and how they have to avoid the gear bay. Also, most valk toys have the gear bay taking up about 90% of the space inside the legs, so it's much worse than what I drew.

I've fiddled with photoshopping various VF-11 fin shapes into the legs, with different pivot points as well as sliding--none work that I could find. As I said--you can't use the entire interior of the legs because of the landing gear, and the fin must go in at an angle. It's a 3D problem, a simple side-view won't account for the angling of the fin or the bay inside the leg.

I assumed the fins would angle 90 degrees straight up before sliding into the legs, and only angle outwards after being extended fully. That way they'd stay against the inside wall of the leg and leave the rest for gear.

And would it matter how the fins get inside the legs? Does the transformation process have to be perfect? It's not like the VF-1 and VF-0 use the Yamato swing bar in the anime transformation.

Edit...or have flip out style hands, for that matter.

A link posted just a few posts up

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q222/cd...ineart-0001.jpg

shows the side view.

Doesn't really seem like it could fold into it at that size, especially considering the thing has landing gears that occupy the same (or some of the same) space.

Oh snap, you're right. I didn't see that. Hmmm...

The fins, and their relationship to the lower legs, looks different in that line art than the line art I put the arrows in.

Never the less...if that 1/60 CAD art is legit, then the tail fins look unnecessarily small to me.

I can't find a direct side view of the line art to measure the width of the tail fins and the height of the engines, but it looks like the line art would work to me...(barely).

Assuming the fins hing at the green dot, and maybe even slide up into the leg, the actual length (blue arrow) of the fins shouldn't matter much. In theory they could be as long as the entire lower leg. It's the width (red arrow) of the fins that needs to be smaller than the height of the legs to fit. And it looks like it is, so I don't know why the length of the fins looks so unnecessarily small in the line art we're seeing.

They look really unnecessarily small in this supposed CAD.

Not sure about the B-1B Lancer reference, But the comparison of the F-22 Raptor & the YF-24 do resemble each other in some aspects.

Similar wings. Similar wing roots (just sort of backwards). Long fuselage.

Mainly it's the long/thin wings. You don't see wide/thin wing spans like that on most modern fighter jets.

The shape of the VF-25 just doesn't say "air superiority fighter" to me, personally. It looks more like a high speed bomber. I'm only bringing it up because the VF-24 does say "air superiority fighter" to me.

Something is wrong with the chart. The 21 should be bigger than the 0.

Or am I crazy?

IIRC, SK has stated that his VF designs for MF won't be based on real world fighter concepts or something like that. Hence why swing-wings in the case of the VF-25 is the "IN" thing again.

Never the less...

One resembles the most modern fighter in our world today and the other resembles a high speed bomber from the 80s....ouch!

For the lovers of metal and technical/fast/aggressive music,

the best two albums I've heard in a long time:

Kezia and Fortress by Protest the Hero

Ok, I know this might have been questioned in the technology thread, but CHRIST its a new valk! A while back I remember watching ep.15 of frontier and had taken great note of the conversation grace had with "THESE VOICES", I saw the YF-24 outlines and it being the prototype for the vf-25, now this valk looks like a hybrid between the yf-21 and the yf-19, or the vf-11. I figured something like this was already talked about or received its proper attention And I am bouncing off the walls seeing that Mac + is still being processed and remembered by its designs. My question is WELL WE SEE IT IN ACTION IN THE LAST 2 EPISODES.

I don't keep up with the threads that this was already mentioned in, so thanks for posting this. I like the look of the 24 more than the 25. The wings actually look like they belong to a fighter, where as the overall shape of the 25 reminds me more of a lanky B-1 bomber than a modern fighter jet.

Just FYI, but far larger, $75-$125 diecast models usually don't have that. (moving stabs are an exception---they also happen unintentionally due to design) I doubt they'd show up in little plastic ones.

Well whatever. I'm just casting my vote. If working gear and canopies are going to drive the price up to those levels, then count me out. But I wouldn't be interested unless the gear and canopies worked.

I also want to stress that I'd only be interested in the wishlist features if the durability was there. If it's between wings with flimsy ailerons that fall off, and regular wings without control surfaces, I'll go the durability route every time. But I definitely want my working gear, canopies, air brakes, thrust vectoring, and some FP and ordinance options.

Give me a bunch of different ways to pose this fighter, and I'd be interested.

I want to be able to do everything from a runway pose with the canopy open and all the ordinance laid out on the runway for display, to a mid-flight cobra maneuver fully loaded with heavy ordinance and the thrust vector planes tilted back in the proper position, and every type of airplane pose in between.

If they were cheap enough, I'd buy a bunch. Moving swing-wings please. No need for working canopies IMHO---what could you see?

It's not so much about "what you could see", (which still should be something at that scale), it's about posing. I want the option of being able to pose my fighter in a closed canopy flight position on a stand, or pose it in a pre-flight runway style position with the canopy open.

If these things aren't going to transform, and they aren't going to have moving arms and legs, then they better have a lot of other moving and/ore attachable parts, or it's just a statue.

Must haves for me: (otherwise put me down as NO)

- Moving wings (for fighters like the YF-19, VF-11, and VF-0 which have variable geometry wings.)

- Working landing gear

- Working canopies

Wishlist:

- Moving thrust vectoring surfaces

- Moving control surfaces (air brakes, maybe flaps, canards, ailerons if not too flimsy, etc...

- Moving gun turrets (like the rear-facing defensive head cannon of the YF-19, which probably should move on two axis.)

- Opening missile bays (if not too small)

- Intake covers for space flight

- Maybe some maintenance hatches that can be removed to show internal mechanisms

- FPs, Ghost Boosters, Fold Boosters, and whatever else should come with the fighter

- A sh!t load of external ordinance, (even for fighters like the 19 and 21 that were designed to store missiles internally).

- Removable pilot figure

If GN-U fighters had some or all of the above features, they might actually be pretty dang cool, because you could pose them in a wide variety of positions. Take off, landing, pre-flight, dynamic flight poses like barrel rolls and cobras, fully loaded to the hilt with weapons or lightly armed with just a gun pod, high speed mode, FPs on/off...etc...etc...

Guys,

If Yamato were to make a non-transforming Fighter mode GN-U toy, how many of you would buy it?

I've been extremely impressed by the scupt, quality and materials of the GN-U Macross Plus battroids and I'd love to see a GN-U fighter mode as well, that being my favorite mode.

I think a GN-U fighter in scale with the battroids would by the perfect size for play and display.

So assuming the following points, how many of you would be interested?

• Would come with a display stand.
• Would come with detachable landing gear to allow it to be posed either wheels down or flying with wheels up.
• Canopy would be clear, with a pilot figure inside, but may not open.
• Cost would be comparable to or slightly cheaper than GN-U battroids.
• Would use the same materials and have same high stand of finishing as GN-U battroids.
• Wings would move.
• Foot thrusters would also likely move (to simulate thrust vectoring).

While the 1/200 VFC are nice, I'd prefer GN-U size and quality.

Graham

Why detachable gear and non opening canopy?

If we're talking about a F-mode only GN-U, with no moving joints for limbs, I'd want as many moving parts as I can get in other areas. That would include working landing gear, movable thrust vectoring, opening/closing canopy, removable pilot, and maybe even moving flaps, canards, various control surfaces, retracting/moving/swiveling guns, opening missile bays, working intake covers, etc.... I might be interested.

Count me in the group of customers who would prefer G-mode.

Gerwalk FTW.

I disagree with the popular opinion that Isamu was a much better pilot than Guld or that the YF-21 was a far superior aircraft than the YF-19.

As I've discussed in other mac+ related threads, there is evidence to suggest that the Omega team was losing ground to the Alpha team and the 19 was pulling ahead in the testing. If the cause of this was simply Isamu being so much better than Guld in natural talent that it circumvented the technological superiority of the YF-21, then UN Spacey would clearly see that the 21 was still the superior aircraft deserving of the military contract even though it was falling behind in the testing. That was never indicated in the anime. The anime just showed the 19 winning.

Just because something is more cutting edge in a technological sense doesn't necessarily mean it performs better. Sometimes traditional technology works best and cutting edge experimental interfaces don't yield the increase in results that you'd expect.

Every time I manage to convince myself I don't want to/need to be a completionist I catch a glimpse of a Weathered Roy and start craving one. It's like quitting smoking.

The logical side of my brain tells me that I am a fool to pay $600 for a Weathered Roy. And my money would be best spent with someone like jung to weather it up for me. It will look 10 times better than the Yamato version, but it just won't be the "actual" exclusive. Why that gets under my skin I don't know.

Well, as others have said, what ever makes you happy in life....

Go for it.

Probably shouldn't post a pic of my wife up here then.

Post it!

(kidding)

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No really....post it.

This auction is for a VF-1S Weathered and an autographed card by one of the voice actors.

feeBay Link

Item number in case the link doesn't work 110279435042

The price is already getting up to where my cutoff is (well maybe cutoff isn’t the best word for it, who am I kidding? I want one!), the shipping is $60 too. Does that seem high from Japan? He also only has a feedback score of three. It looks like he bought one item and sold two, one of the two sold was another Weathered Roy. I’m usually pretty free wheelin’ when it comes to getting stuff off of eBay and I have never been screwed but for some reason my Spidey Senses are tingling a little bit on this one. Something about the look of the auction is poking at me and I don’t know what it is.

I know it’s expensive, and that is partially why I am a little nervous. But adding a feedback score of 3 and the funny feeling I am getting are making me sway toward passing on this one.

If it were in the States and even as high as $550-600 shipped I would probably go for it.

What do you guys think?

Thanks

sqidd

What do I think? No offense, but if you've got money to burn on stuff like this and you race sport bikes all summer, then what I think is I'd like to trade lives with you for about a year or so.

Are you interested in a weathered Roy as an investment? Are you a completionist? Or do you just want a weathered Roy? I personally don't even think the weathering job looks that great. So unless you're buying it because you want to own it as a valuable/limited collector's item, I'd suggest using your money to commission a skilled Macross World member to weather a regular Roy valk for you. I'd rather give my money to a skilled artist and recieve a one of a kind custom, than give my money to someone who does nothing except mark-up the price to desperate collectors for a factory-weathered item on an ebay auction. That's my 2 cents.

Does video form count?

YF-19 for me. Mac+ is my fav series and the 19 is the most iconic valk for me.

...even though I like the YF-21 and the SV-51 better in some ways, I'd still choose the 19 if I could only have one.