Fit For Natalie

I know speak of canon is mute, but if Optimus & Megatron are brothers (as mentioned in the first), then wouldn't that make Megatron a "Prime." And if Megatron was a "Prime," wouldn't he be on equal terms with "The Fallen." Why did we need "The Fallen" again? Unicron would have worked, hell, anything else would have worked, but as it stood, where the hell was this guy in the first movie?

The Optimus Prime and Megatron being brothers is only canon in some divergent continuities of the movie, apparently. The reference of their familiaral relationship was clearer in the video games and other supporting 2007 fiction, but it was left deliberately ambiguous in the movie itself. Roberto Orci said after the movie (shortly before writing a treatment for Revenge of the Fallen) that it was up to us to interpret what "brother" meant, and obviously, in light of ROTF, it is now meant to refer to a Cybertronian brotherhood in nationality, rather than a family relationship.

As for The Fallen, he's a big bad for the comics, though an unknown one as far as 99.9% of viewers are concerned, and perhaps obscure to even 90% of people who consider themselves Transformers fans. I prefer to see it as a pretty decent writer shout-out to hardcore fans for them to even *consider* using The Fallen.

Why did they have a Tekkaman Blade "Radam" style base on the moon?

That was actually the crashed remains of the Nemesis, possibly on one of Saturn's moons (hence the ringed planet. According to the comics, it was the ship used by the Fallen and the bulk of Decepticon forces to try and find the last solar harvester. I suppose the movie can interperet it as a ship used by the Decepticons to escape the death of Cybertron.

Why was Dr. Claw in this movie? Would it have been that hard to add some synth to Sioundwave's voice?

Frank Welker has previously stated that he didn't like what they did to his Soundwave voice (which is essentially Dr Claw) on the G1 cartoon. It's entirely possible he asked Bay to leave his voice alone and Bay agreed.

Adding the human shaped deceptacon also add's a whole can of worms I don't think should have gone into here.

Eh, Pretenders have been around since the 80s. So long as not every (small) Decepticon has that ability, it's fine.

Yeah, that's another thing that didn't get explained, and actually The Fallen's ability to Trans-warp (or space bridge) isn't ever explained as far as I know. Jetfire's ability is explained in the prequal comics. He is one of the seekers who were created by the Allspark with transwarp abilities that allowed them to traverse the galaxy in search of energy sources.

The Fallen has always had magical powers from his time as one of the first thirteen Transformers. That force-pull/lift power was like his force crush from the War Within comics, as was his ability to create dimensional portals. As far as Hasbro is concerned (and they will be the last word once Bay and Paramount get tired of Transformers), The Fallen in this movie is exactly the same guy from the comics, being a multiversial singularity.

What did they name the Audi? You know the one, it was sliced in half by Sideswipe at the beginning of the film.

I was kinda disappointed about Sideswipe, I was hoping to see a red Lamborghini Countach.

Assuming you're talking about the 1970s-80s car, the Countach is a bit rubbish now, though.

Among some of the craziness the movie has attracted, I found this lol tidbit from the entry of Judith Witwicky. Can anyone confirm this?

From Bay's blog

Hey dude, visit TFWiki.net, that's the real Transformers wiki, where staff and all the major contributors left for. We wrote 99% of what's currently on the rotting corpse that is Transformers Wikia

*advertisement* We have almost 2000 articles more than they do, and of greater quality, if I may say so

True, it's a business. But in my field we have to look at everything as a art scholar or academic viewpoint, to get the maximun out of the artists involved. Lets look at Batman. It's Batman, it's a franschise, originally made for kids like Transformers, and it's a business. Yet Nolan managed to turn it into a quality, mature storytelling and as art in the film sense, without any of the lame comical features in Transformers.

I mean "Serious Business" as in the sarcastic internet term. "Serious Business" as in taking something not so serious, such as a hobby, too seriously.

Something you should always consider about Transformers is until very recently, toys came first in Transformers, and then fiction was written around them. Transformers is unashamedly commercial, since pretty much all of its fiction exists to sell toys or to promote the brand. Essentially in Hasbro's viewpoint, the movies are there for massive brand awareness that most other toylines from other competitors cannot hope to match. It's to prove that they have the franchises and the characters to take the fight to big guns such as Batman and Spider-Man, and at least with Transformers, they've proven that.

WOW.....20% on Rotten Tomatoes. I think I'm gonna pass.

I don't see how there can be ANY redeeming qualities in this one.

It ain't that bad. Frankly, the critics are out with knives for Bay personally. I don't like Bay much, but I think the criticism over ROTF is getting really ridiculous.

And what was the point of the undercover ice cream truck mode?! Pointless! It shows that the Transformers can upgrade to better vehicles as that one did later on but choose not to?!

Because it's funny, amusing and makes for one of the greatest vehicle modes in Transformers, ever. Hasbro pretty much said they made it because it such an off-the-wall concept.

Most unnecessary scene/humor was everything up to and involving the Smithsonian bathroom.

That had the longest sustained laughter at the IMAX press screening I was at.

There is one factor which can come across as Michael Bay’s belief of his nation’s superiority.

And it is a perfectly reasonable belief in the circumstances of a war with giant alien robots. Last I checked, the United States has the largest and most technologically advanced Air Force and Navy in the world, and are possibly the only nation who can actually field a

.

This movie is no art. It’s just eye candy entertainment for males that don’t want to think too much while digging in pop corn. I really do wish that such franchises were given to directors like Cameron, Nolan, Jackson or Scott, cause they take charge of the films, not the marketing producers chasing deadlines.

Those directors think fairly highly of themselves, so they would not have anything to do with this franchise. Transformers is a toy franchise, and for that reason Bay didn't want to do the movie at first place.

Transformers has been for the most part popcorn entertainment. It's silly, it's fun, it's not meant to be taken very seriously. Looking for 'art' in Transformers suggests you are looking at the franchise in completely the wrong way. I don't mean Transformers shouldn't have quality, mature storytelling, what I mean is you're looking at Transformers from a viewpoint of a art scholar or academic, which is quite comical given it's Transformers.

Transformers = Serious Business indeed.

Now, the PROBLEM isn't an in-universe one. It's an IRL one. They AREN'T appealing from our perspective(though apparently mainstream America is quite happy with them. Not the first time I've considered mainstream America a bunch of morons.).

Hey, that's uncalled for.

I love this film. As much as I am a Transformers fan, I am an even more passionate Star Trek fan (though not of the Klingonese-spouting nerd variety). I have never felt so satisfied in having my faith in a movie rewarded.

I am also particularly enjoying the fact it has received consistently good reviews (96% on Rotten Tomatoes with 209 positive out of 218 reviews, last I checked), and shows that despite what critics of Transformers say, Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman can actually write.

I LAUGH IN YOUR FACE, TREKKIE NERDS WHO PREDICTED DOOM

One I won't accept this as a Yesterday's Enterprise scenario with a wiped out timeline.

I chalk it up as a A Mirror Darkly scenario where Spock and the Romulans were flung to another reality's past.

I think it was clearly said the original timeline of Trek (if you can call it as such given how many times Star Trek stories have messed around with time travel) still exists, but this is a new tangent of Star Trek continuity coexisting alongside it.

I can't help but notice some inconsistencies. Like Pike saying the Federation is an armada etc. It struck me as the writer did not do research.

I think that's a pretty reasonable way to say "we got a whole load of ships". Like it or not, Starfleet's mission is also of defense of their worlds, so it's equally a military organisation as it is a science and exploratory body.

Another is suddenly everyone knows that Romulans and Vulcan's were related. The Romulans were still a mystery in the early and mid 23rd century. Second contact between the Federation and the Romulan Empire occured a hundred years after the Romulan War. The Enterprise were involved with this. Also the Federation has a Neutralzone with the Klingon Empire?! The Federation and the Kilingons did not have a Neutralzone till the Organians forced on them a peace treaty. The Enterprise again was involved in it.

When Nero's ship entered this timeline and destroyed the Kelvin, it changed the course of history, so MAYBE the Romulans established contact with the rest of the galaxy far sooner than in the original timeline.

Yeah, one of the great unknowns of Auto-Bop is just what that building the Decepticons had constructed was supposed to be.

From TFWiki.net's article for Auto-Bop:

It is never established within the episode itself just what the Decepticons are trying to accomplish with their hypnotize-people-to-construct-a-building plot. However, according to the official Sunbow synopsis included in Metrodome's DVD release: "... the boys and the Autobots pursue Starscream to the skyscraper—a new Decepticon headquarters being constructed by the hypnotized patrons from Dancitron." Oh. Well then.

Even sadder when Eric Siebenaler unveiled some of his original design sketches, showing the walking tank mode...for an ultra sized Galvatron, which was later abandoned when Galvatron was switched to a deluxe.

Had it been an ultra like originally planned, I have a feeling that the transformation wouldn't have been a PITA, and that the robot mode would look a TON better.

I doubt it was Eric Siebenaler who answered that, since he's in charge of Animated and doesn't design any Universe toys. You probably mean Bill Rawley.

can you point me to those designs?

Here you go:

OK so that got my attention.

WTF was that little thing the size of a Grasshopper

I think he is called "The Doctor".

It's most likely an Insecticon. The Decepticon referred to as "The Doctor" (name most likely Scalpel) is a larger, spider-looking creature. His toy transforms into a microscope.

*Shortly after the destruction of SOCCENT Qatar and during the Sec Def's speech at the Pentagon, we see two medical Blackhawks flying in the desert. Are these US Army Blackhawks or USAF Pave Hawks? My DVD is not clear enough to see any service markings besides the red cross.

*Why does the medical UH-1 seen after Scorponok's attack on Captain Lennox's ranger team have the USAF roundel and have "ARMY" marked on the side? Do I classify it as a USAF or US Army craft? It appears to be painted half green (well, some dark colour) and white.

So, anybody have any idea about this?

I was going to ask about the differences between the physical Raptors and the CGI Raptors as well.

Yep - that's how it works in the USA. But in Poland, where I am, Hasbro has regional distributors which bring the stuff in from Germany, which is where Transformers come in from China when they are sent to Europe (at least for the Continent as far as I can tell. Don't know about the UK). The regional distributors then push it on to us retailers. The regional distributors are not Hasbro per se, of course, which is kind of a shame since they don't know what the frak they are importing and have the business sense of lemmings.

But I digress.

If Wreck Gar continues to be a no show, I'm going to have to break down and get that stupid Nuclear Atomic Lugnuts that BBTS wants me to buy if I want Wreck Gar

Pete

Ahh, I apologise for assuming, since the American way is apparently also the same way down here in AU.

I don't have the TF DVD, so I can't reference the scenes you are talking about, but unless they marked things very oddly for the movie I think these are the answers:

The medical blackhawks are going to be Army. Pave Hawks will have obvious sensors on the nose and a conspicuous refueling probe.

UH-1 will be army as well. I don't know what a "US Army" roundel is...all US forces use the same national markings.

As a general rule, if you see a helicopter, it doesn't belong to the Air Force. They use Pave Hawks and Pave Lows for special operations, but that's about it.

Oops. Here are some caps I took of the helos I was wondering about

As for the movie people marking things weirdly, besides Blackout's fictitious 4500X tail number, they left military hardware alone.

Here's the USAF article I just wrote, if anybody is interested. It's TF specific so I don't bother going into detail about equipment, though I provided Wikipedia links for those who are interested in learning more.

I'm about to give up hope on my local Hasbro distributor ever having them in any time this century.

Pete

I know..I think my only hope checking Hasbro's online store everyday until it pops up unless I can stand letting some Evilbay seller get his pound of flesh.

From what I understand, Hasbro isn't actually responsible for distribution. Once the items arrive on US shores, they are almost immediately sent from the ships to the distribution centers for the retail chains that ordered them. From there, it's more truck rides to various regional warehouses, which is all controlled by the retailers, not Hasbro. After that, the schedule for taking product from those warehouses and putting it on shelves is dictated by each chain's inventory system.

Hey guys, I need some help. I'm writing an article on the USAF for the TF Wiki, and since I'm not terribly knowledgeable on helicopters or the service branches, I've come here for help about the aircraft seen in the 2007 Transformers movie (shot in 2006)

*Shortly after the destruction of SOCCENT Qatar and during the Sec Def's speech at the Pentagon, we see two medical Blackhawks flying in the desert. Are these US Army Blackhawks or USAF Pave Hawks? My DVD is not clear enough to see any service markings besides the red cross.

*Why does the medical UH-1 seen after Scorponok's attack on Captain Lennox's ranger team have the USAF roundel and have "ARMY" marked on the side? Do I classify it as a USAF or US Army craft? It appears to be painted half green (well, some dark colour) and white.

I was going to ask about the Blackhawks seen in Mission City, but fortunately they managed to get a shot of the helicopter's tail where it says "United States Army".

Well, from my point of view, Transformers couldn't qualify as anime because it generally didn't have any strong female characters who were also unimaginably hot. Carly was technically blonde and technically beautiful - but her character template (both looks and behavior) was so generic as to make her boring.

Marisa Fairborne might count, but the only time we got to see some skin was when she was hit by that ray thing that made her revert to being a baby.

In fact, the only truly gorgeous girl we saw anywhere in Transformers was in issue 62 of the Marvel comics - Miss Fatale looked the part. But again - bit player.

No chicks: no anime.

Pete

When Japan got their hands on Transformers, they made some unfortunate changes to the American-created female characters. Carly in the G1 cartoon was depicted as a brilliant, strong-willed teenage MIT graduate who had the magical ability to use alien computer systems without instruction or prior knowledge. Plus she raced cars towards Decepticons - hardcore. She later became an ambassador for Earth in the post-Decepticon defeat.

When Carly appeared in the Japanese Headmasters, she became a damsel in distress housewife who made coffee and worried about the men. Similarly, Arcee went from a warrior to a secretary office lady.

From my understanding, "anime" in Japan just means "cartoons", but it may be necessary in this case to define "anime" as "Japanese-produced cartoons".

G1 Seasons 1-3 and the movie were not anime, since they were American productions. That is, all of the creative stuff such as the writing, the direction, the designs were done in America.

Headmasters, Masterforce, Zone, Japanese Beast Wars, Car Robots, Unicron Trilogy are anime because they had mostly Japanese production staff and were created mainly for Japanese consumption, and in the case of Galaxy Force/Cybertron, sometimes total disregard for what is supposedly a jointly-produced series that was to be aired in Hasbro's markets as well.

I mean, the Hansen family in Galaxy Force/Cybertron, a white American, European-descended family in Boulder, Colorado for some reason lived in a Japanese house with sliding paper doors. Not only that, these supposedly American characters bowed to strangers and elders, Japanese-style. What?

Is Overcast an F-15 in this panel from Alliance issue 3? His toy was a redeco of Movie Dreadwing, that MiG-29-looking plane with the stubby legs.

I will throw out my Classics Galvatron right now if it meant I could have an Ultra.

Hey, a note to Hasbro, if anyone from the company reads this... people are more willing to shell out for Ultras if they're awesome characters like Galvatron than minibots like Powerglide.

What's funny is, according to what the TakaraTomy Henkei designers said, apparently both Hasbro and TakaraTomy wanted Powerglide to be big because he was an A-10.

I just actually noticed the cane thing, and I am just engorged with nerd rage at this point... that's the stupidest thing I've ever seen! How can anyone stand behind this bastardization of everything us transfans loved?

Don't be so melodramatic.

Looking at Leader Jetfire, and TF1 Starscream, not to mention nearly every other Tf with an aircraft alt, I have to wonder why Takara can't, or won't, design a kibble-less aircraft Transformer, but they can make damn near any land vehicle with no or nearly no kibble. Kawamori has spoiled me when it comes to transforming aircraft. I was hoping for a really well done SR-71, even in the movie aesthetic. I should have known better to raise my expectations.

I dig the shape of Jetfire's legs, but, on the whole and like 95% of the movie figures, I don't like it. The only movie figs I intend to buy are Leader Prime, Starscream (much improved over the original, but the hands sticking out the back in alt really stand out), and Sideswipe.

From what I understand of Transformers design, they usually take a vehicle and then figure out a vague transformation of the vehicle into the robot look that they want. They are under no obligation to stay true to the proportions of the real-world equivalent vehicle, or even use all the vehicle mode parts to form sections of the robot mode (hence times when roof chests and hoods are faked).

A theory I have is that since the Transformers are characters, and not just mecha, they prefer to keep the robot mode true to their vision of the character's look, personality and symbolism at the compromise of the aircraft modes. Traditionally, TFs are "big and tough". From what I've seen of Japanese transforming fighter-mecha, they are comparatively lithe and slender.

Then there's also toy safety. TFs that are designed to represent flying characters are tested extra-rigourously with the knowledge that kids will most likely fly the toy and throw it around.

Some of the Takara designers on the current lines worked on the old GaoGaiGar toys, so it's possible that the combo itself is a reference to GaoGaiGar.

I've found homages to other Brave figures in the Classics line too, like Classics Jetfire, resembles a gestalt component of one Braves robot, forgot the name though. The repaint, Treadbolt looks like another Braves robot too.

Hasbro designers look to past Takara robot lines for inspiration, too. Hence Cybertron Prime's various combinations.

I wonder if it's anything that can be remedied by Fans Project or some fan run company to make parts to make the noncombining Constructicons combine. It's still a major screw-up on the part of Hasbro who should have known better.

I kind of doubt it. Hasbro's reasoning (if you read between the PR-polished Q&A answers) is that basically the individual toys would have been unable to transform into the combined mode parts and stably support the weight and size of the Devastator design, not without significantly compromising the design of the individual robot and vehicle modes (hence the non-transforming limbs and things essentially being bricks). Now, if the robot modes were G1-like bricks in the first place, maybe they could have transformed, but they aren't.

So NO comments on Leader Jetfire? I want a "perfect sideview" before deciding. Still, I was hoping for frankly near-Masterpiece when it comes to "lack of robot kibble in jet mode". There seems to be a lot more than there should, mainly due to GIMMICKS.

Nothing wrong with gimmicks, unless they are obnoxious like 2007 Movie Starscream's rotating launchers.

Just feels like a totally different design team did these toys.

I think they're all pretty much the same designers. Last I heard Bill Rawley's team were moved to the ROTF line after they completed work on Universe, while Eric Siebenaler (lead designer of Animated) has also done some toys. Alex Kabulsky at TakaraTomy, whose work has been admired by in the main TF thread here, worked on the 2007 movie line, has worked on Universe and Animated, so no doubt he worked on the ROTF line and whatever else Hasbro has planned.

And you forgot Leader Prime. He's pretty damn accurate in terms of Transformation.

Demolishor-Scavenger thing is either a bizarro mistake by Hasbro or a bizarro homage to Scavenger for a character who has a totally different name.

And man, some of you guys are taking things A BIT TOO SERIOUS BUSINESS

Now you're being silly.

Good point David.

I mean - I got to thinking about some of the Chogokin I have from Yamato or Bandai who are not perfect transformation; who are partsformers - like Getter Robo and Groxier X and my upcoming Dangaurd Ace...I'm sure there are plenty such examples to go around....

But - a) these things were super robots designed 30 years ago, b) their alt modes are "fantasy" and c) we've seen SHE take on a number of such super robots making Perfect Transformation getter robo and the like with various results...

Hasbro had a clean slate. I remember Aron Archer once saying - about a year ago - that Hasbro was not generally doing gestalts because they are really hard to design.

I remember thinking "huh? What? What's that supposed to mean. I mean - abstracting from the gazillion gestalts in G1 - Predaking being an OUTSTANDING example (albeit the design was, I believe, not originally Hasbro's) - Hasbro have designed some fine gestalts - Tripredicus and the Maximal gestalt are two VERY GOOD examples. Car Robots also featured two WONDERFUL Gestalts - The train one was really great, and the Construction machines one was very good too. The trains individual robot modes were kind of lanky, but the combined mode was really a sight to behold. One of the best TFs around. Conversely - the Build Team had great individual modes - a tad weaker combined mode - but good nonetheless.

Energon did indeed have ugly and stupid gestalts - what with the copycat limbs and no real hands...

But...

I think there must have been some kind of internal revolution in Hasbro's offices - perhaps also in Takara (which did after all merge with Tomy).

I think that the old design team must have left, gone on to greater things - whatever - and it seems almost as if Hasbro outsourced the Movie toy designs to some people in a third rate bootleg factory - the DESIGNS - not the construction - but the designs.

I mean -when freaking non-transformable kiddie Power Devastator looks better than the 100 dollar "super toy of 2009" - you know there's trouble.

Clearly there is still talent working at Hasbro. Animated - both the show, the design and the toys are A+ stuff. A tad on the floppy/cheap feeling plastic side compared to past lines - but still top notch. VERY good poseability and in many way revolutionary poseability - "dynamic cartoonish" poseability I'd say - with knees being able often to move side to side and joints in places you would not normally expect them.

But the movie line - this is some kind of joke. I mean - could this also be the result of holywood designers creating the projects for these? I remember Michael Bay in the DVD edition of the movie where he talks about how the design team was working on Prime and some Japanese guy started screaming "this is an insult to the Japanese people!" and Bay was like "fine - you do Prime" -- and he did...

Now I suddenly think: dag - maybe they really did have a bunch of holywood designers with no feel or sense of G1 doing these and ONE Japanese dude who knew what was happening and at least saved Optimus Prime from looking like a train wreck (and Optimus Prime is the only TF in the movie franchise who actually looks like his G1 counterpart for the most part and has a GOOD TOY)... I dunno...

I just...I can't understand why they are dropping the ball like this. There must be something causing them to FAIL on the movie line...

what could it be?

I'm almost getting the feeling that they're being like: "well - we know the movie is going to sell LOTS of toys. So let's just produce whatever without thinking about it and get it out there and sell it" - I guess that's ok, if it helps finance Animated, Henkei and similar projects in the future... still - it's a bit of a shame...

Pete

Most of the designers from the past 7 or so years are still at Hasbro. Eric Siebenaler (Animated lead designer) designed some ROTF toys, though he didn't say which ones. Apparently the entire Universe team was move over to ROTF.

Calm down man. Besides Devastator, the rest of the ROTF line is fine. In fact, thus it's better than the 2007 movie line.

So, anybody like the F-35 guy, Breakaway? The fact his face is inside his cockpit amuses me.

PS---biggest dissapointment? It seems there are prominent movie characters who I've never heard of, or are MINOR G1 etc characters. Mudflap (WTF?) and Skids? Where's Tracks/Sunstreaker/Hound/Wheeljack/Bluestreak/Prowl/Gears/Cliffjumper?

You seem to be confusing this movie continuity with G1

Do we know what Transformers are going to be in this movie? I remember when the first one came out we had a list of what bots where going to be in it. L'd love to here who'll be in this one.

I agree that the trailer looked cool, not to keen on the unicyle bot though either.

Chris

Based upon confirmations, leaked toys, on-set sightings and rumours...

Autobots

Optimus Prime

Bumblebee

Ironhide

Ratchet

Jolt (Chevy Volt)

Sideswipe (Centennial Corvette)

Arcee (three bikes that seem to have individual modes that combine into Arcee)

"Skids" and "Mudflap" (Chevy Spark and Trax twins)

Possibility: Springer as an Osprey and Wheelie (RC car, rumoured)

Decepticons

Megatron

Starscream

Soundwave

Ravage

Audi R8 bot (rumoured to be Barricade)

Jetfire

Constructicons (one of whom you saw in the tv spot trailer)

A Decepticon Pretender

???

The Fallen (IDW confirmed this before Paramount had apparently okayed for them to do so, and so the interviews where they mentioned him were subsequently censored)

Yes, I know that is all we are likely to get from Bruckheimer and Bay, but I still think that a great opportunity was missed, especially with the budget they had.

Taksraven

Jerry Bruckheimer had nothing to do with this movie.

Regarding the budget, from what I heard, $150 mil is considered to be relatively low budget for an effects-driven film. ILM must have cut a deal given this was a Dreamworks Spielberg-backed film, and indeed, what we saw in terms of robot CG was most likely all that they could afford.

and my favorite, why would they/anybody need the glasses if they could track the allspark's energy signal in the 1st place?

Starscream didn't have the glasses, but he found Megs. and Megs knows where the allspark is since he's been in cold storage right next to it.

what are the glasses for again? oh right. it ties in the badly written teenager lead. ok, so this one has an excuse

Banachek: President Hoover had the dam built around it. Four football fields thick of concrete, a perfect way to hide its energy from being detected by anyone or any alien species on the outside.

Starscream didn't magically divine the location of Megatron and the All Spark. Right after Banachek's exposition, Frenzy finds the All Spark and contacts Starscream. The Cube was never moved. Megatron tracked it as it fell on Earth, and himself crashed into the Artic circle. Megatron inscribed the coordinates of the Cube onto the glasses when he was briefly reactivated by Archibald Witwicky.

New pics of Bumblebee with Sam

http://www.the-arker.com/bbs2/dispbbs.asp?...ar=1&page=1

Newer pics of Starscream's box

http://www.the-arker.com/bbs2/dispbbs.asp?...=330&page=1

Grabbed a Universe Cyclonus today.

...

Am I the only person incredibly disappointed... because the first step in the instructions is to fold up the nosecone and reveal the head?

It's probably due to watching way too much Voltron, but it just seems wrong for the head to not be at the end of the transformation.

And WTF? He only has a gun hole in his right hand. That's just strange any way you slice it.

Try hooking Nightstick to Cyclonus' either of his wrists when his fist is folded into his arm. It's an undocumented feature Hasbro did in references to the Japanese Headmasters series, though Cyclonus was never a Targetmaster in that show.

Finally found TF Universe Legends Bumblebee, Brawn, & Beachcomber today ... nice.

Check your local Meijer for the latest and most likely final wave of Universe Legends - Cosmos, Warpath, Rodimus and Wheelie.