1/1 LowViz Lurker

This is why I like to think all the anti-un is, is anyone (doesn't matter what religion you are) against the idea of a goverment that gets to control everything. Especially those who are tired of more of thier spending (lives and money) for war. I'm thinking the only way the UN is going to get everyone together is through force since most nations I bet would try to steal the tech for thier own nation (although mac 0 suggests the anti un had stumbled upon some tech first) and want to keep it for themselves to influence other nations.

If alien tech was available it would be kept secret, not made available to anyone to be shared, (look at the real world - knowledge is power) the only reasonable advantage of coming together, being fear that the aliens would come back, BUT with the sole intentions of having that power kept not to the people who are giving up thier hard work and sacrificing, as the macross townspeople did, but instead to those who already have it - ie admiral hayases, and all those hiding in the hole in the ground and whom, whether they win or lose, will *still* be in power making all the decisions despite their huge mistakes in judgment which they don't even have to take accountability for)

I'm pretty sure a large group of people just want to forget the alien ship had even crash-landed on earth to begin with so they can rebuild thier life, rather than prepare for even more destruction and loss of thier life and hard-earned dollars. Once people landed a man on the moon nobody really cared about spending that much on science and technology when you think about it, and when you consider the secrecy of the government not letting people know anything about the aliens it's hard to justfy asking the people to support something they know nothing about. (people didn't even know the vf1s were transformable robots until right on the day when the zentreadi arrived, that smacks of mistrust, nobody is given a say and no regards about the ethical uses of the technology itself)

So everything costs MONEY and that funding would need to be spent on things people think they are getting something out of (not just weapons that are more powerful), which IMO is the real reason it has to remain secret. Because they know the general populace would object. but those who do object would be "silenced" and at the receiving end of the weapons of the UN.

Heck I would be right there fighting alongside the anti-un if I didn't have any idea there was going to be giants coming to earth with the possible intention of invading. The need by the UN to create cover stories to not panic people would bite supporters of the UN in the bum in the end, because without knowing exactly what is going on, they are just being used as a sacrificial lamb. I bet it wasn't until after SW1 (when those responsible for all the civilian deaths could be rounded up) and the formation of the new UNG that people (whos own money was used to fund the projects) could start to enjoy the benefits of the technology.

The human race like the protoculture NEEDS to spread itself apart as far as it can to make sure the human race is not wiped out like the protoculture when creating weapons that backfire. (the mistake their civilisation made was to not spread apart enough, so I guess one wise person secretly helped seed earth based on foresite; possibly one step into helping fullful a zentreadi religious prophecy, the same one exedor mentions to britai)

That is because it is a human's nature to fight and compete and kill each other like the zentreadi; (it's true, we DO intnetionally kill our own people like bodolza) of which Exedor and Global are the only ones who are well aware of from history. Anti-UN is just the natural opposition to unite under single rule, so that things like the holocaust (world death all around from alien attack) at least have a limit in terms of the damage it can do to the human race. I guess the protoculture (according to macross compendium) could never agree 100% either, so they kept splitting and re-uniting based on the disputes they had over control of things just like us.

Yep that's what I want it to look like. Will that affect his arm poseability?

Hmm still deciding whether to get a vf11b fp. Are the legs as floppy as Yf21? The damn gerwalk is going to give me a heart attack if I leave it alone too long or wobble the desk.

FPs don't look too distorted when viewed from afar imo.

I suppose I can just pretend the lineart is distorted anime magic. Yeah that's it.

i mean, no way is the toy this skinny in battroid (shoulders are way far apart imo, the only negative point stopping me from wanting the current toy immediately):

Me too. I only just got back into macross (not really a hardcore fanboy yet) and I would suggest getting macross plus collection 1 and macross plus collection 2, so you can see all the scenes that weren't in the movie edition. I get the feeling that it would be a step backwards because I'm not sure if there was as many frames of smooth animation. (and the character's aren't focused on as much in the ova compared to the movie)

But if you're a completist you wouldn't want to miss the ova so you could see everything.

I also highly recommend sdf macross. For me though it was more for nostalgia at first, (because I loved the tv series) but now after watching it again I enjoy the series as if it were new. It also opens your eyes to how much difference there is to macross saga from robotech. But get DYRL first since that is awesome even by today's standards and worth rewatching if like me your memory of it was hazy. (much smoother + cooler dogfighting than tv series obviously) Mac 0 would then come later. I don't know about 7 though. Keep hearing that it isn't as good as the original.

I think the practicality of the battroid mode would be in the stability and accurcy of aiming the gunpod imo. If the pilot is floating around in gerwalk they couldn't make accurate shots at many moving targets from all angles. (think about the advantage of the batroids tv camera head, as opposed to the gerwalk pilots window - less situational awareness in close encounter environments imo) think about what happens when mechs launch close range micromissles, you could transform to battroid, shoot them all down with a rapid spray from the gunpod and hope that all th targets when exploding, set off a chain reaction that blows them all up without having to individually avoid or go through them. Battroid would be the best mode to shoot down missles since you are staying still and have the best visibility and natural motion to target many things at once. Lining up accuracte shots is a cinch when the machine isn't constantly moving around and obstructing the gunpods ability to line up shots because you just so have to be facing the targets to even begin to shoot it in other modes. Battroid mode offers a wide angle defence and works best for up-close threats or to spread as much fire into as wide an area as possible to defend against numerous smaller objects getting in the way. (I'm assuming the battroid has just transformed and is floating in mid air)

On the ground in battroid mode the pilot would have the cover of buildings in a built up area (and no fear of crashing into things) with the assurance the mech hands is kept steady enough to fine aim sensitive areas and weak points of the enemy that are just not possible in fighter and gerwalk mode because of the size of the target to aim at. Think also about stealth and the advantage of being still and not giving away your position through unecessary acitivty. (turn the machine off if you need to. Radar would be useless at certain distance)

Also tanks wouldn't be able to shoot a fast moving target, and assuming the battroid can run (I mean really run, not jog like the jogging robots we are seeing today) it would be easier to dodge fire while simultaneously shooting at the same time and performing humanlike manuevers that the more clumsy destroid just wouldn't be able to do. Doing several things at once: walking while aiming the gun, swiveling while firing; ..and at the same time moving the tv camera's head to spot movements in real time etc are all advantages of using a robot becuase it maps the motion of the human form which can do all tasks concurrently) A battroid would also have the advantage over gerwalk mode in that you could aim the gunpod in directions you aren't necessarily facing, increasing reaction speed in areas where the enemy could be hiding behind objects where gunning them down first and getting the first shot would be crucial. Strafing would also be second nature as opposed to a tank which needs to rotate its tracks first before being able to move from side to side. (simply put, tanks do not 'dodge')

I can even imagine vf1 in battroid freefalling from the sky, with wings opened up, head pointing down and shooting missiles before they even land. (a quicker form of paratrooping where they just drop from the sky quickly)

The human body is far more efficient at doing several things at once then your standard machine which moves "mechanically" and does things in steps one after another. Whereas the destroid looks like it would move slowly (like ripley's loader in aliens?) but pack better and heavier weapons, the battroid could run and if needs be, float with it's "jepack" on its back and thrusters on its feet to "skate" across the surface of the ground. (sort of like the way the Qrau is just a piece of armour or a "spacesuit" for a giant Zentreadi with massive thrust on it ) There is also the possbility of the boost jump (a really long jump with assistance from thrust) adding more maneuverability. We see zentreadi battle pods leaping in the air all the time.

There are probably instances where mapping the delicate motion of the human body and expressing that fine movment through complicated robotic movements that are seamless will add a responsiveness bonus and tax the driver/pilot less so he can begin to concentrate on more important things. When trying to control vehicles, you may need more than 1 guy to help with the controls and it's just not as intuitive as having 1 guy control the whole thing and do both tasks himself as if he *were* the mech. (no need for a "crew" when you become the thing and think as one)

All a battroid would need to do to kill a tank would be to squash it with its feet. Head lasers would just take out the lighter craft in the air which are flying around but that can't manever in built up areas without crashing into something. (unless the pilot is suicidal and assuming destroids haven't already shot it down, or other pilots in fighter mode aren't keeping them busy)

That's the advantage I see the battroid mode having, and we can all just say that alien tech brought ultra light materials. I mean really, didn't the remains of the Roswell UFO crash supposedly contain ultra light metals that almost practically floated? If the anime is sci fi it needs to have at least something to stir our imaginations and make us wonder. The closest thing we have in real life to alien tech is the possiblilty of the UFO crash at roswell and area 51 having access to real technology that is being reverse engineered. Assuming they are real things, we can assume unique things happen when alien tech is involved. (ie antigrav or gravity reduction lessening the g forces of the machines and pilots in them so they can move at amazing speeds while defying the known laws of physics ala like the ufo sightings people are getting used to seeing.)

Another advantage in being variable, (lets assume transforming was real for a second) is that even tanks take time to be transported from one location to another. Taking time means increased risk. Are they going to go anywhere if the enviroment is slopey and the terrain is uneven? They will be easy prey. Especially if the land threatens to get them bogged down. What if you are surrounded by mountainous area or even swamp? Mountains provide a natural barrier to tanks. People could place all sorts of traps for heavier, less mobile machines. But in gerwalk or battroid you could hover over the hills and uneven surface, boost-jump over minor slopes, and none of this affecting your ability to aim.

Helicopters don't seem so bad ass when you consider that battle pods could hide from them by submersing themselves underwater in the tv series. Sneaking on foot has its advantages especially if you are low in number and can't afford to be shot down by enemy anti air defenses.

Gerwalk mode? Lets just say you are stuck on 1 side of the mountain and need to pass quickly out of enemy territory... gerwalk mode would give you boost to fly across, avoiding a long journey over the mountain on foot. You could perform rescue operations in gerwalk mode that a helicopter wouldn't allow (how about having 1 arm firing a gunpod for cover fire while 1 hand is picking up important people as they are running away, as opposed to the wasted time it would take to winch them up and line your guns up with targets the old fashioned way?

I hate realism when taken to the extreme because it means people will apply only what only is known to exist of thier time period which puts limits of what is really possible instead of applying the creator's own "sci-fi rules" of the world that the characters live in and must play by for "comic book" realism. (hollywood always gets away with it unscathed, thanks to the matrix bringing over-stylised action sequences which are hard to believe) And to me, the importance of coolness supercedes the importance to stay as real as possible. For all we know, star trek type nanomachines will be a reality for us all where we swallow them as pills and they fix us up from the inside. The future is unpredictable.

Either the OT involves special ultra-light-but-super-strong materials or they've got some AG system to help defy gravity somehow or the aliens are just as backwards as us humans. I like to think the aliens are so far ahead of us that anything is possible. Concepts that don't make sense to us humans right now are merely the results of current understanding and the limits of teachings by other humans' discoveries from the past.

I just think that the Anti-UN is made up of dissedents filled with all sorts of scum of the Earth.

That would be how most scifi series would want to portray the anti un. Like in Star wars though I like to think the rebel fighters and rogues (like han solo) are more like heroes who are not afraid to fight for people too weak, scared, or mind-controlled to be able to do anything to free themselves from the power. (similar to innocent people at the hands of nazis: the people supporting them weren't so much "evil" themselves, but rather scared to go against the power and control that had them enslaved. When all that military power is misplaced and goes into the wrong hands somebody has to challenge it to give control back to the people again. Anyone trying to do this would be rebels and seen as traitors, but not to thier conscience.)

It's like in early episodes of star wars where we get hints that senator palpatine is using mind control to take away power from the various leaders through unfair means and yoda and other jedi can't sense where this evil is coming from because it is invisible. If Jar Jar bink's weak-mindedness is being preyed upon using a jedi mind trick, then people have a lot to lose and fear with the loss of power they will eventualy have when the emperor finally takes hold of the goverment and uses military might to squash any resistance to his plan for world (i mean universal) domination.

Even though the rebel fighters might look dirty and unkempt and a ragtag disorganised bunch, (actually that's what makes them cool for being like that) and we prejudge them on early appearances, (isn't han a smuggler?) rather than clean shaven, unthinking drones with no conscience like the imperial storm troopers,... ironically, they are the only ones with the guts, skill, and determination to be able to challenge the empire.

Here's a quote that best sums up why I think realistically there would be restistance to a UN world goverment and why there would be (rightfully) such strong opposition to a world controlled by a single select group whom nobody can trust to listen to the people (as opposed to themselves):

When any human court–even a de facto court like the United Nations–is the highest authority, then morality is reduced to mere power, either the power of the government or the power of the majority. If the courts and the laws define what is moral, then neither laws nor governments can ever be immoral, even in principle. Compliance is the highest good, breaking ranks the greatest evil, regardless of the issue.

I would assume most would be forced to accept a less quality lifestyle and the purpose of resistance would be to fight for all those that had a lot to lose (both in principle, and in terms of power) in some attempt to regain thier freedom and independance. If you were a superpower independant and unreliant from the rest of the world, that had nothing to lose by going against the UN, why bother following thier rules and pretending to care what other nations think about you when most of your beliefs go counter to thiers anyway? Giving up control would be the last thing you would want to do, and like star craft your interests would always come before theirs...unless you were too scared to let all the power and knowledged from alien tech bite you in the bum in future for not co-operating unwillingly.

All those who can't stand being under the one rule would then have to go underground. The truth of human and znetreadi nature is that we were born to kill each other as exedor so clearly put it, so even the UN would have major problems trying to bring peace when humans can't even bring peace to themselves. Much more realistic and deep than just saying we are at war with the usual evil baddie wearing a mask who is laughing maniacally and easier to identify. There's got to be some reason and interesting backstory to how these people came to get that way. If the protoculture made mistakes; wiping themselves out, and we were altered to be like them then there is a chance that humans would almost wipe themselves out through war too.

If Sharon Apple, like hitler or palpatine (with his mind control over vader) used her hypnotic control over the people and machines to take over the world, Terminator 3 style, the only failsafe would be the few who had not fallen sway under that power, to destroy the war machines and bring the resistance to keep the human race alive. You wouldn't get that from people who were aren't seen as stubborn and bull headed (like Isamu and Guld, who always fight against each other) because they wouldn't be persuaded as easily as most people. It's that ability to sense bullshit at the higher level that results in true freedom and independance, but most people would think that thier freedom just comes about for free without needing to fight for it, just by being politically correct and dishonest with themselves for comfort. (costing lives ala Misa's dad who endangered the unprotected world's population who were not hiding in the hole.)

So to make out that the UN is free of criticism and are the good guys (that's not to say there aren't good guys working within the UN) would be an insult to all the dead civilians that died from the UN's stupid decisions. It would be a different story if Misa's dad chose to fight a force that wasn't so large, because the losses may have been minimised, but the whole human race almost got wiped out from 1 crap decision made at the top level.

Millard makes a good point in Mac+ about how human pilots are more effective than drones because the humans may make a drastic decision (like sacrificing themselves - the "necessary evil") which can save many more lives, while a drone wil just follow orders to preseve itself. I can only assume because drones may not have human courage programmed into them or by looking at the bigger picture to protect people. Even drones can be controlled by an AI!

Whereas the UN would like us all to be "drones", follow orders, and listen to your superior, no matter how dumb the decisions they make are, and make you pretend to agree with each other even when you don't, ...there are others would like thier ability to be in control of themselves, be independant from too much control and to follow thier conscience. Nothing wrong with that. Without a few people being a little daring, Myung may have been killed and the casualties would have been far worse with the SDF1 main gain possibly aimed at civilians. (who knows?)

I always just imagine the anti-un as just being anyone who doesn't want to give up thier land, sovereignty, and soul to the central goverment. If you own a large piece of property (years of hard work to get that) and some politician redistributed that to somebody else, (stole your work) because they assumed control of absolutely everything as the world goverment, I would be mighty pissed.

Of course to the UN it would be "humanitarian" to steal what wealth you attained and redistribute it to others (the have-nots) but not without a fight from you! Just as much as people will try to stop immigrant workers stealing local workers jobs because they can't compete, so too will people; who have something to lose (with the establishment of a new world order), try and fight against a world goverment that reorganises things to how they see fit.. just so someone in power wants to increase efficiency in how things are done for the global cause, regardless of who loses out.

I don't think its about power so much as principle. As an individual, why on earth would anyone willingly give up thier freedom of choice?

It's like giving a person a choice of 10 unique flavours to taste (the world is much more interesting when split up, because of variety) and then suddenly taking that choice away and saying "this is how things wil be done, you will give up any rights you once had to a handful of powerful men who probably want to control your life to suit thier own personal agendas". All your tax is going towards a globalist agenda involving total militarisation of society whether you want one or not. (this after having just fought a global war, you would think the worlds population would be sick and tired of wanting to spend and waste more money on war)

True there are going to be honest people genuinely wanting world peace, but the opportunity (by the world's military) to grab what power and knowledge they could from the alien ship would be the primary motivating factor, (the greed) and not as idealistic people believ: to geniunely bring about an end to wars. (there is too much to gain through waging war if you are the more powerful nation - think of it like a game of starcraft )

Ok so an alien ship crashed and there was a geniune threat to the survival of humans but that doesn't mean we all have to bloody like it. Without some kind of balances and checks and accountability, people become suspicious of that much centralised power being turned against them. I doubt anyone buys the idea that politicians have the average joe's interests at heart and will not lie just to get voted into power. There is just no way you can make everyone agree with each other without using force to get them in line.

Now given that world goverment leaders would most likely control the whole military and have no reason to listen to the people based soley on the idea that they control the world, who will fight for your individual rights if you happen to disagree with what the central goverment says you must do? (obviously there will be no alternative since its a global goverment It's not like you can move to another country since it's all controlled by the same goverment.)

Now in macross the protoculture may have prepared for the possbility that thier govemment may turn into a dictatorship with the development of super zentreadi (just my opinion not saying this is fact) to watch the military in case something like this happens and in case there is "no escape" from enslavement by corruption in the system, but... as like what happens in many science experiments in science fiction stories, something goes wrong with the project and all hell breaks loose as the experiment goes out of control. The secret weapon backfires.

This is what I think the Anti-UN is.. just a bunch of people (like a few people in the protoculture who didn't trust the way the goverment was going and the decisions they were making, fearful they would use the military against dissidents) who have lost a lot of what they thought thier independance gave them (ie much better lifestyle in thier view) and now vainly trying to claw back what they've lost by fighting a world empire. Sort of like the rebel fighters in star wars who seem like a ragtag bunch of idealists in the backdrop of an empire's total rule. With rogue characters like Han Solo seeming to the empire like petty trouble makers, who really wouldn't register in any importance or threat; and really hated by the ordinary person who just wish they'd stop resisting.

Like the rebal fighters in star wars, I'm thinking the Anti-UN are sort of disorganised, but afraid enough that if they all don't band together to fight the UN (despite not all members agreeing with each other on every issue) they will forever be the slaves to these people making all the decisions for them and ordering them about. Without thier independance they lose everything (national pride mainly) so they fight to bring about as much chaos and anarchy as they can to upset the UN's effort to maintain a tight grip on thier control of everything.

There would probably be 1001 reasons to not like the UN but just based on the idea that no one can agree 100% with each other on how things should be run and who should control what, is enough of a reason for the need for an anti-un. Because the Protoculture developed weapons that were too powerful, based on the idea of one side not trusting the other, they ended up destroying themselves because of limiting themselves (thier whole race?) to being controlled by a central goverment instead of spreading thier race as far apart as posible to ensure they could increase thier chance of survival. (only a few people with foresite must have decided to make some effort to genetically alter humans in secret)

Based on distrust, a central goverment (with 2 opposing sides) would eventually split apart with the secret intention of either side to fight to the death to eliminate all those who oppose their views, resulting in eventual war. It was only a matter of time before they had decided to reunite JUST so they could deal with the Evil series, but never really wanting to join willingly through genuine heart-felt feelings of love for each other.

And just like the protoculture, the human's global goverment on earth with the different sides (formation of UN) would find a need to unite to deal with the Zentreadi threat, (just as protoculture needed to unite against the evil series threat) with many people on either side secretly unwilling to trust whatever enemies they made during the global war that was on earth, so suddenly. After all, you can't really expect worst enemies, to become best friends overnight, so what you have is this "united front to combat aliens" but underneath, you still have many people who lost lives to thier sworn enemies from the global war who still harbour that hate, wanting to bring the world back to the way it was, and also not trusting a global order because it would be like helping the enemy. I can see Anti-UN as being many things to many people but mainly as a last resort to prevent world domination by leaders the people feel they can't trust to listen to them.

The shoulder sliders are fine and I can say they are strong, but given this is my first M+ toy I have nothing to relate this to. I'd say they should be up to reasonable abuse with no sign of wear and tear though. I've tranformed it roughly about 10 times and really I don't see how these could snap off. (and this is considering that the arms that slide back and forth along this slider are quite stiff for me. Just make sure when you slide the arms to put a thumb on the front/back of the slider (depending on where you are transforming from/to) and an index finger on the arm's shoulder,.... and not just yanking the whole arm with your hand like you would as if pulling a rope! :-D

The only thing that worries me is the paint chipping on the legs of mine.

One thing I wish they included was the two little slots where the 2 gunpods sit on the leg armour piece in the mac + movie edition where you see Guld firing from in fighter mode - well, these don't open up. It would have been cool to just have covers that open up so people could see how the gunpods fire from underneath the plane when guld is firing them in fighter mode.

As it is, only half the gunpods nozzles seems exposed so it doesn't look very threatening for people who may think they are stuck covered up like that, instead of having that part of the armour open up. This is just fan nitpicking though.

Also another nitpick: not much detail on the gunpods imo. (and no dark panel lining here, like on the rest of the toy, better to do this yourself, same with putting some black lining on the edges of the extra landing gears and wheels to add definition. The landing gears look kind of plain with all that white thick paint and barely noticable detail when looking at medium distance.)

Now bring on the 1/48 yf19 yamato, you slackers

I would. I think the YF21 looks awesome in battroid mode. When you rotate the forearms so the wrist guns are rotated closer to the outer side of the wrist and the shields are guarding both arms properly it kind of makes it look bulky and strong. Even though it looks a little fat in fighter mode (from a top view mainly but good in side view) I can apreciate battroid better from the front. Even though the chicken legs are long (like the classic zentreadi pods) the wide body and weapons gear on his arms balances it out overall.

Legs are floppy so don't expect too much poseability with how legs are positioned. It still looks cool though. Paint has begun to chip on a part of the leg on mine which is worrying. Fighter and Battroid are the only modes I will leave this in.

I've always liked the idea that the battroid mode combines 2 of my fave zentreadi mechs: the skinny legs of the battlepods, and the bulky round arms of the Qrau, with the bonus addition that the mech is a variable fighter instead of a giant non-transforming 'suit' for a macronised zentreadi.

The double gunpods and "alien queen" fanhead with skinny limbs give it a unique attitude like that of wierd bipedal insect as opposed to the more humanoid mechs with the usual robot head. Avoid trying to make it look kick-ass in guardian mode though. The legs are only just thick enough to provide balance to the rest of the toy (unlike zentreadi battle pods with fat ankles/feet) and this thing needs all the weight in the centre to keep it standing in this mode. The skinny feet look ok in the anime but they don't seem too practical for a toy of this weight imo. The toy is very sturdy and there are no delicate parts though so I don;t see this thing falling apart. The main problem is getting the legs to come out and go in, in fighter mode when transforming it, since there is just barely enough space for them to fit. The first time trying to transform it, I was worried the legs wouldn't fit properly.

You got to wonder how this thing would take off vertically in gerwalk mode. It doesn't seem like it would have an easy time.

Another thing I remember is in the book it explains that the pilots have a helmet which reads their thoughts and transfers that movement to the mech. At first that sounded ridiculous since we all know there are physical controls shown in the cartoon/anime. But then after seeing mac+: Can anyone say brainwave control system? Mac + = copying mckinney!

The novels imo were good for backstory and explaining the reasons for why the Zentreadi were after Zor's ship. I particularly liked how the invid were right there at the start (Breetai's face gets injured) because it takes away the "WTF do the aliens want from us?" factor that was in the cartoon. Robotech fans had nothing during the time these came out, (I remember getting a few from a comic book store and my brother, who was only a casual fan of the series actually liked the novels better than the cartoon) so I can understand why people are so fond of these novels. The writing is pretty good, and it fills in the little details whilst not boring you. (the action is described in detail too)

You know what they should have done? Put these free on the robotech dvds as a bonus right alongside those old robotech toy ads. And along with that, scans of the robotech comics. Wasted opportunity IMO

The things I didn't like were contradictions to the cartoon. Personally instead of saying they used "thinking caps" as the controls, they should have explained that the existing controls were highly sophisticated and sensitive enough to mirror the natural motion of human pilot's body using the standard controls. This would have linked perfectly to how roy was demonstrating that with robotechnology they can perform more precise manuevers than thier older planes in the airhshow in the first episode. (an interesting discussion on rt.com about this.)

Expert pilots and amatuers would then be given the chance to perform fancy manuevers thanks to the advances that the alien tech brought (but still be room for aces like max to prove the constant factor that thier pilot skills are what make the difference in the end regardless of what tech level the tool humans are given to work with).

I think I remember reading some of these ages ago. I thought it was funny how they added in small details that weren't in the cartoon like how Khyron was addicted to the flower of life and couldn't stop smoking it. haha I wonder if they'll keep that in the official robotech story?

*Bump*

Would like to see some for yf21fp too.

Well I was thinking just as an example (I think I said it before in another thread) that with the new ninja turtles and the new he-man cartoon, and the zoids stuff essentially the same old thing: people have run out of ideas. Little kids will go with what they know. And if they never even saw a macross mech how can you sell new toys of old series? (If they see macross zero right now, not even knowing what "the macross" even is, because it hasn't been built yet, how can they get interested?)

But if a new tv series (taking place in the same timeline of the old one with retelling of events that makes sense to old jaded fans) was updated for today, they(newer non-80s fans) might watch that first, then later go to mac zero and find out what the backstory of the new tv series was all about. (like the way star wars started from ep 4 not given us any information about who these "jedi knight" people were all about, adding to the mysteriousness of the story. If you think about it if a little kid saw episodes 1 star wars before seeing episodes 4,5 and 6, it would actually *spoil* the mystery of who darth vader really was and make him less cool. As a fan you acutally reommend he see episode 4,5, & 6 of star wars FIRST before the prequel)

This way mac zero could be seen as both an ova for fans of the old macross tv series, but later on seen as an ova for new fans too. (who just got into the timeline of the series where zentreadi arrive)

They wouldn't even have to tell the new tv series in exact detail to the old one. You could introduce new characters (maybe even new mecha, alongside old ones) without upsetting the main story from the original 36 ep series in the 80s.

There is still hope that a new group of fans who have had a chance to be exposed to an official release of the original macross tv series will defect from the robotech ranks and fan support grows from there. I for one loved the fact that toys are at least being made since I had like a 10 year break from anything to do with the aging franchise. It's like the aliens series, where provided there are books, comics, toys and video games to live off of, there is a chance for new movies. The thing that keeps interest in macross is the timeless nature of the Variable fighters. It's a concept that is memorable after 20years no matter how sick the jaded collectors have gotten of the same mech being made.

I think macross plus also helped to regenerate interest because at the time, I think it was one of the coolest anime to be released. (I only recently bought these on dvd, both ova and movie versions and still love them.) They didn't need to be aimed at a mass audience imo or to compete with other scfi fi series to gain attention and "steal" fans from other series, they just had to be true to themselves and fans would just gravitate towards them based on taste.

The real problem for me is the fact that before the release of the dvd box set of the tv series I had no interest in trying to find info on macross series, the various toys that were out etc as I assumed it was a one-off thing that was dead. (I did have a short interest in gundam model kits but I'm not as much a fan of those mechs)

I think it would be cool if they just remade the whole tv series, added smooth cg aimation, and retold the story again linking everything nicely with macross zero. If you think about it, little kids of today, won't be interested in buying toys of Qrau, battle pods, destroid mechs etc if they don't even know what those things are. Maybe they could even upgrade the look of the vf1 slightly for today and relase new vf1 types. jk I would love to see celshaded macross series (in the style of zoids cartoons) with the same intensity of mac+ and mac 0 dog fights.

As long as its got: high quality,(ie won't break) high detail (accurate to real thing) and good poseability(no floppy limbs in any mode, more apreciable in long term) then I'm there. (still would love 1/48 detail though)

If they have to upsize the scale to please both the hardcore fan with wads of cash and those who have to save up then I'd say this will work out if they space releases apart. (so everyone can catch up. Still worried I will never be able to get complete collection 1/48 vf1s without paying inflated prices because the wallet can't afford it all at once and the threat of them disappearing.)

eg. those little banprestos look good (and playable) standing on top of a monitor but if they make these too small they might alienate those who want perfection and who've gotten used to 1/48 details. I think it would be safe for them to first satisfy that demand amoungst the anal fan, and then work towards the masses later.

If they take a risk but in small steps, (staggered release) while building up fans anticipation (generate the buzz that makes it a top priority on a person's toy shopping list as opposed to releasing all at once) they could survive I reckon. I had some cash ready for a toynami alpha but am holding back for other stuff (ie still want to buy koenig monster, vf11b, qrau etc) so it all depends on who they want to focus on. Make the toy perfect to please fans, and the "i'll buy the thing anyway because it's a yf19" people, and they won't have to sacrifice much. (why run the risk of pissing off either one group?)

If they could go in with the attitude of "I want to make the best version of an accurate and high detail yf19 toy for the fan and grab thier attention", then the $ will flow to them because people will limit what they buy on only the best stuff; especially if that thing is seen as a highly sought after item based on what the fans percieve and what the critics say about it.

It's like if you buy a cheap pair of shoes that fall apart easily, expect to buy more than 1 pair but be disapointed. (not really wanting it) But if you buy an expensive pair, then the percieved value to you personally will go up because you know they are dependable, (they last!) and something that you've always wanted from the beginning. (you just limit yourself to buying 1 because you are on a budget, but at least pleased with the thing you bought) Because if they could create demand based on word of mouth on the toy itself, (what fuels the demand?) people will seek it through reputation alone.

Besides little kids have small hands and love to throw stuff around. By the time they grow up, they'll have jobs and be able to afford the 1/48 once it is finally released. I heard that japan is an aging population anyway. The older crowd is the growing market.

GG: here's an interesting ufo account about the black triangle ufos:

http://www.rense.com/general57/blactri.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/tr3a.htm

^

could they be the tr3a? Forget vf1a, I want one of these.

Antigrav or gravity reduction will be the key of the future. If these are real, then I can't wait for my george jetson hovercar!

But before they can mass produce them, there will probably need to be another world war first. War and the technology that comes out of it, brings convenience that filters down to consumer products. But the conflicts must be carefully arranged so that both sides can't entirely kill each other off entirely so as to keep them competing and raising the bar.

GreenGuy: That stuff relates to the alien theory that an earlier poster joking refered the hurricanes to, with the belief aliens might have something to do with it on page 1. My theory is I think its weather modification technology causing the hurricanes to herd people from thier land ie HAARP (read the cuttingedge articles to understand)

Stuff about aliens, UFO/govt cover up etc was generic response to the thread not pointed at a particular post. The sighting of alien-looking craft are explained here. They are secret weapons which helps explain the appearance of strange sightings of the mysterious craft, lights etc. Reffering also to a macross joke about pilots being needed to fight the aliens ID4-style hehe (the gist of the articles and what I was pointing out is that the triangular craft are not necessarily alien, although there may be the possibility humans reverse engineered alien technology like in macross, and from the ufo roswell crash in 1947 which the goverment denies)

we already have a gas shortages, so that means i can't find any gas because of Frances and we still have alot of people without power.

There'll also be shortages of water in the future:

http://www.rense.com/general57/ou.htm

Doomsday is coming. All the chaos is being controlled. The UN is targeting the US to create a more 'sustainable' world. I wouldn't be surprised if underground cities were to be built.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2.../6/183147.shtml

there will be huge mass destruction attacks in the future in america. My own personal opinion is that 2012 or 2013 will be thier scheduled date to bring in the new world order. (The UN already want to change the calendar over to a mayan one, replacing the gregorian calendar) They have to time it just right.

As for aliens? We may need future test pilots. You can download a flight sim for USAF Ultra Top Secret TR-3B.

http://www.rense.com/general38/ulrta.htm

TR-3B Antigravity

Physics Explained:

http://www.rense.com/general30/yrb3.htm

Physics Analysis Of TR-3B:

http://www.rense.com/general5/trb.htm

Was One Of The Mexican

UFOs Of US Origin?:

http://www.rense.com/general53/wsa.htm

UFO Triangles...

Theirs or Ours?

Answer: BOTH

http://www.rense.com/ufo/triangUS.htm

The TR-3B vehicle's outer coating is reactive to electrical stimulation and can change color, reflectiveness, and radar absorptiveness, thus making the vehicle look like a small aircraft or a flying cylinder--or even tricking radar receivers into falsely detecting a variety of aircraft, no aircraft, or several aircraft at various locations.

The mass of the circular accelerator, and all mass within the accelerator, such as the crew capsule and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by almost 90%. This causes the effect of making a vehicle extremely light and able to outperform and outmaneuver any craft yet constructed--except, of course, those UFOs we did not build. The TR-3 is a reconnaissance platform with an indefinite loiter time. "Indefinite" because it uses a nuclear reactor for power.

 

Many sightings of triangular UFOs are not alien vehicles but the ultra top secret TR-3B. The NSA, NRO, CIA, and USAF have been playing a shell game with aircraft nomenclature - creating the TR-3, modified to the TR-3A, the TR-3B, and the Teir 2, 3, and 4, with suffixes like 'Plus' or 'Minus' added on to further confuse the fact that each of these designators is a different aircraft and not the same aerospace vehicle. A TR-3B is as different from a Teir 3B as a banana is from a grape. Some of these vehicles are manned and others are unmanned.

 

The TR-3B's propulsion is provided by three multimode thrusters mounted at each bottom corner of the triangular platform. The TR-3 is a sub-Mach 9 vehicle until it reaches altitudes above l00,000 feet--then God knows how fast it can go!

Human Engineered Flying

Triangles - Many Names,

Hidden Programs:

http://www.rense.com/ufo3/humantringl.htm

Remarkable Evidence

Of Secret Black

Budget Technology:

http://www.rense.com/ufo/secretfouche.htm

The TR-3Bs were stored in a hanger built into a side of a

mountain near DARC. The Nellis Range covers more than 3.5 million

acres. One operational TR-3B is now stationed in Scotland, another in

Diego Garcia, and the other TR-3B is at Papoose. To my knowledge there

are only 3 of the 600 feet Operational Models. I believe there were

only two or three 200 feet prototypes built.

The Top Secret SR-75 far exceeds the classified military speed and

altitude records set by the old SR-71, which could fly at a still

classified Mach 3.3 and reach a ceiling of 85 thousand feet.

 

The SR-75 attained altitudes of over 120,000 feet and speeds exceeding

Mach-5, or 5 times the speed of sound. That's over 3300 miles per

hour. From take-off to landing, the stealthy 75 can make the round trip

from central Nevada to Northeast Russia and back in under 3 hours.

 

It's 162 feet long and has a wing span of 98 feet. The belly of the

vehicle stands 10 feet off the ground.

 

It carries a crew of 3 - a pilot, a reconnaissance officer, and a

launch control officer, who doubles as the electronics warfare officer.

 

Two methane and LOx fueled, high bypass turbo-ramjet (combined cycle)

engines are housed under each wing, and the bays run some 40 feet under

the wings, terminating at the trailing edge of the wing.

 

The explosive Pulsed Detonation Wave Engines that push the huge SR-75

to speeds above Mach 5, are now reported to be pushing Mach 7, or 4500

miles per hour, with the latest engine modifications.

 

Although this plane has been sighted on numerous occasions, has been

picked up on military radar, and the pulse detonation wave contrail it

leaves behind it has been seen, the Air Force vehemently denies its

existence.

 

* * SLIDE 64: Radar operator

 

The 2 large engine bay inlets located under each wing of the awesome

black SR-75 mother ship, hang down 7 feet from the underside of the

wing and are twelve feet wide. You could drive a Volkswagen Beetle into

one of the engine exhausts.

 

The SR-71, and 75, and the daughter ship, the SR-74, were all built by

the Lockheed Advanced Development Company, commonly known as the

Lockheed

"Skunk-Works."

 

The SR-74 Scramp is the daughter ship and rides piggyback on the huge

SR-75 until take off. Scramp is from Scram-jet and rocket propulsion.

Scram-jet means a supersonic combustion ram jet.

 

Jerald witnessed the flight of the big black Air Force SR-75 carrying

the little unmanned SR-74 while inside Area 51. It was sitting

piggy-back on its upper raised platform on top of the SR-75 Penetrator.

 

I heard talk about the 75 as far back as the late 70s while at Groom,

and I have 2 additional friends who have seen it at Groom.

 

Remember, the SR-74 Scramp can't take off from the ground. It can only

launch from the SR-75 mother ship at an altitude above 100,000 feet,

and then it can attain orbital altitudes of well over 800 thousand feet

or 151 miles.

 

The Air Force uses the Scramp to launch small, highly classified,

ferret satellites for the National Security Agency. It can launch at

least two 1000 pound satellites measuring 6 feet by 5 feet. The Scramp

is roughly the equivalent size and weight of a F-16 fighter. It can

easily attain speeds of Mach 15, or a little less than 10 thousand

miles per hour.

A friend said, he would never forget the sight of the alien looking

TR-3B based at Papoose. The pitch black, triangular shaped TR-3B was

rarely mentioned - and then, only in hushed whispers - at the Groom

Lake facility where the government will go to any lengths to protect

this technology. The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000

atmospheres at a temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin and accelerated to

50,000 rpm to create a super-conductive plasma with the resulting

gravity disruption.

 

The MFD generates a magnetic vortex field, which disrupts or

neutralizes the effects of gravity on mass within proximity, by 89

percent. Do not misunderstand. This is not antigravity. Anti-gravity

provides a repulsive force that can be used for propulsion.

 

The MFD creates a disruption of the Earth's gravitational field upon

the mass within the circular accelerator.

 

The mass of the circular accelerator and all mass within the

accelerator, such as the crew capsule, avionics, MFD systems, fuels,

crew environmental systems, and the nuclear reactor, are reduced by 89%.

 

This causes the effect of making the vehicle extremely light and able

to outperform and outmaneuver any craft yet constructed-except, of

course, those UFOs we did not build.

 

The TR-3B is a high altitude, stealth, reconnaissance platform with an

indefinite loiter time. Once you get it up there at speed, it doesn't

take much propulsion to maintain altitude.

 

At Groom Lake their have been whispered rumors of a new element that

acts as a catalyst to the plasma.

 

With the vehicle mass reduced by 89%, the craft can travel at Mach 9,

vertically or horizontally. My sources say the performance is limited

only the stresses that the human pilots can endure. Which is a lot,

really, considering along with the 89% reduction in mass, the G forces

are also reduced by 89%.

 

The crew of the TR-3B should be able to comfortable take up to 40Gs.

Weird Close-Up UFO

Events In New Jersey -

Sightings Increasing:

http://www.rense.com/ufo/weirdevents.htm

heh well there are some good articles about weather control through HAARP here:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/weather.cfm

now here's a scary thought: perhaps you are being herded off your own land for the NWO?

I'd definately buy a 1/48. Then after they release that, they can do the 1/72. (well in my dream world)

Logic being start from easier to harder challenges...If everyone buys the 1/48 and no one buys the 1/72 it will prove sacrifices were unecessary because fans will be too impressed by the brilliance of 1/48 to care for the 1/72.

skull: hehe, as if! nah none of the above. Just thought it would be a nice theme to mock the new robotech shadow force and jack archer thing. I like that ninja in the avatar merely because he was my fave character in samurai showdown/spirits. Plus I've always liked the idea of an all black mech just merely because it looks cool. (I think I had a custom painted vf1 model that looked like that in the 80s)

Shame that HG stole your idea wolf. Maybe you should get them to put your name on the credits. Although if that series turns out craptastic you probably wouldn't want to be associated with it as to avoid embarrassment.

pic of a zentreadi ship lifting cloak

It would look cooler black and unmarked. Like it was designed to hide the identity of the people who use them. Kind of looks evil.

They could say that these are special-use MIB-type vf1s (like the silent black unmarked helicopters haha) whos identity is kept secret and who nobody knows about. They were given special engines which are completely silent and run on technology nobody has been allowed to see before (with only 3 ever made and all destroyed in the zentreadi attack on earth). Yeah thats it. The shadow goverment just does not officially ackowledge thier existence, and these are designed only for specially trained pilots who can penetrate deep into enemy territory without being seen and for assasinations of key anti-un leaders. Equipped with countless prototype superspy gadgets (miniturised version of self repairing biomorphic armor, predator/ghost-in-the-shell-style optic camo/invisibility, Xray to penetrate and see through walls, motion tracking device to sense movements when deep underground, experimental AI system to take control when pilot is unconscious or dead etc)

If only they could fit these into the story. Maybe fit one in like the 'jack archer' thing but for macross. jk

Bastards!

So the question remains: Do they make them crap on purpose because they know collectors won't open the box?

I would be willing to pay high price for one that isn't going to fall apart and actually lasts, so I wish they could make high quality toys. Why don't they just do that? I'm going to save my money until all the problems are fixed, IF they are fixed.

I think by buying a faulty product you make it easier for them to continue profiting from neglect, and reward evil. It will make it harder in the long run for everyone else. What you want to acheive is to help destroy thier chance of profiting, being that they are the only ones making this toy and have leverage over the loyal fanbase. Normally competition between 2 competing companies rewards the consumers because your money will go to the competitor who is doing a better job, in the same thing; which then forces the other company to try harder to survive. But because they have full control, and being the only ones with legios toys, the only way to get what you want is to boycott imo. Once they know people are actually going to stop paying, they will put 200% more effort into pleasing you.

Don't let them blackmail you into thinking there'll never be another line of toys if you hold off purchase as a result of them failing to achieve the standard you expect, since they are probably making money on dvds/games and what not. It's all about will power, since it is only worth as much as the consumer thinks it is. But meh, fans will be fans. And that's why people with casual level of loyalty will suffer.

If this was just a case of them rushing the product (which I hope) then I would be patient enough to hold back in anticipation for future improvements they will make. But if this is an ongoing thing where the level stays about the same, it's not really worth the risk (unless prices sink right down and shops show some balls by resufsing to stock the item if price remains what it is )

If people could politely email thier negative feedback and give intelligent reasons for why they think the toy sucks ass, it might help them to improve and they could take this as constructive criticism. But we can only hope the reason they suck so much is because thier skill isnt up to the task and they were too ambitious and inexperienced; ...as opposed to: them "deliberately not caring" because they simply want to save money with cheap material in order to "maximise profits" through the exploitation of fan desperation.

Thier reputation stinks yet fans continue to pay them, instead of trying to starve the beast. Why? Because the abuser knows you'll keep coming back for more bitch slappings.

Try this place:

http://www.animeskyscraper.com/torrent.html

(requires bit torrent to start downloading. Better to use bit tornado client though)

And the evil singing hologram/black blox on wheels was defeated

heh Yeah but she cheated by using "manchurian-candidate"-style mind control to hypnotise and control. You'll note the theme of the holohgraphic character's evil 'third eye' in the holograms to stun the people and control them, reading thier thoughts and shaping themselves to what the person wants to control. One breed of song was destructive, (a song of death which corrupts, controls and manipulates) the other non-destructive. (love songs) For all we know it may not have even been music which was responsible but let's asume it was. (as I said the people looked like they were in some form of drug induced hypnotic state at the sharon apple concert)

Hypnotism is real. Here's some info on mind control and the SSS spectrum:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/mindcontrol.html

more on patent : http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...RS=PN/5,159,703

This is what I theorise how a computer could take control of the crew, by first hypnotising, programming instructions into thier subconscious which would later be triggered and unlocked without them being conscious of it, sparking a multiple personality and then carrying out the plans. (like the way sleeper assasins are mind conditioned)

Myung mentions how much she hated her songs and the blackbox. Were they really her songs if they didn't come from the heart though? She gave up her real singing career a long time ago.

Same thing happened with minmay, towards the end Hikaru and Misa ask her why she sings? It's not for the fans, and to be famous, (she was trying to escape attention) not for herself? Then who? I like to think she was singing for her soul and the emotions people also feel in her lyrics, the melody, etc were the awakening of people who had felt/or wanted to feel those things she was singing about. They wanted to share it. But she can't really express them in her music if she isn't motivated by what she is truly feeling. It would be fake. She would sense that herself once she lost the feeling to sing.

Given that the zentreadi are all clones, and essentially mind-conditioned to be killing machines, whose only intructions are to destroy, destroy, destroy - they had no soul. Minmays music gave them one.(or awakened something that was always lying dormant in thier earlier culture)

Some religious people who are against cloning might like to explain this by saying that cloning humans results in merely a human 'shell', a physical body, in that it wasn't given a spirit since it was not made by God (through the union of 2 people in love) so the clones lacks a soul. (there is a theme in the street fighter games where the main villain is part of a secret society called shadlaw and he purposely clones bodies for his demonic spirit to inhabit. A clone without a god-given spirit is an empty vessel free for a demon spirit to possess/control. This is what I think happens when other-dimensional beings possess people, because in order for it to be possible, you have to allow your own soul to leave its body to let 'them/it' in. )

Therefore given that the creation of a soul is when 2 people join together, you could say answer the question of: "what it means to be human?" with the answer... love. It's the hidden ingredient that gives meaning to life. If minmay has no passion in her music, what good will it do to motivate soldiers and remind them of what they are protecting? It would be hypocritical. The love song is the central theme and reminder.

In fifth element the hidden ingredient after applying the 4 other elements (wind, earth, fire, water etc) was love.

Ghost in the Shell? Answers the questions of whether machines have souls even after giving up all of thier physical body. The main character is unfeeling, mechanical and is searching to be human again - she falls in love with another machine! Proving there is a soul in the shell.

Matrix Trilogy? The hidden ingredient missing from previous Neo's was that they all lacked love. The architect could not understand what it was in all previous neos that resulted in his world being destroyed, because he himself only thinks logically and lacks emotion and passion in his work (he is merely a robot thinking in mathematical terms) which ultimately makes the matrix destroy itself after a time.

But with love, (the oracle may have arranged for trinity to fall in love with neo this time) the current version of neo is able to prevent the destruction by demonstrating. The lesson however is love may not last forever (and the french guy is an example of what could happen when it goes sour over a long time) and this is why the architect continues to be remain cautiously skeptical of the future at the end. But it DOES end the war with the machines nonetheless. Because Neo (a techno jesus) did not die for himself, but for everyone.

If you take the matrix example, apply it to macross, minmay is the same at the end where she has to shed her innocence and be honest with herself. Does she love Hikaru, or is she just yearning for the past and for someone to protect her whenever she feels vulnerable? Hikaru protected her many times. (it may have been romantic but things change and now he wants to protect everyone)

Love was fleeting and Hikaru moved on, focusing on a new goal. Protecting culture for everyone. (this is similar to the way jedi knights are forbidden to fall in love with only a particular person, but rather an idea: to love everyone. In the end love saved the day, ending the war) Now that is the same with minmay, she had to remain aware of her music for other people but find her passion again. Hikaru fights for the same reason minmay sings. Without her singing there is no hope to end wars altogether. This is the reason kyle had to leave so she could gather her thoughts and mature into a woman to see the effect her music has to others.

You'll see a similar maturing of Hikaru throughout the series: he doesn't love the war, he doesn't continue being a soldier just to impress a girl anymore; or even because he loves flying, he gives up all those romantic boyish dreams, for reality and becomes a man by serving a greater purpose for the benefit of the people. There is really no time to mope around because its life or death.

Now here's the key difference between evil music and good music: The reference to satan's dolls is equivalent to mindcontrolled puppets. With minmay's singing, the zentreadi were being UN-conditioned/de-programmed to kill rather than conditioned/programmed to love. (love was something that was always there in nature until the protoculture perverted it through genetic engineering and mind conditioning). Music then, just returned them back to thier nature. (like the way Darthvader had to be returned back to his good old self. Luke wasn't perverting truth the way the emperor was. We all though Darth vader was cool and cold all along. But he's a normal guy who was perverted and seduced through manipulation.)

As for the emulators: The music the emulators used was more akin to mindcontrol than awakening feelings and emotions that were naturally within people. The good guys just want people to forget destructive forms of behavior, and focus on productive, 'creative' ones. As necessary as they were for defence, the war-like leaders of both sides (adimaral hayes, Bodolza) had to die because all they wanted was to control and manipulate people rather than look at peacful solutions. Why? They are scared! Demons feed on fear and it is the reason yoda warns about "fear" in star wars. "fear leads to anger, anger to hate" etc

Now whereas music is the medium, the *intentions* of the person singing the music can change the effect it will have. The emulator music was for purely destructive purposes, while the minmay 'attack' music was for motivation, and *reminding* people what they have back on earth to protect. (probably girlfriends, family, other loved ones.) Remember Minmay's music wasn't intentioned from the beginning to brainwash the aliens and for distraction - only for liftng people's spirits. You'll see this whole "protection" wording used a lot in macross plus. The two rivals promise to protect myung from danger because they both love her which stems from 'weak' emotions, but this protection thinking keeps civilisation going.

In nature birds protect thier young and aren't afraid to attack you if you go near thier eggs even if they are afraid to die, wheres snakes and reptiles have no problem eating thier young. One is unselfish preservation of the many at the expense of the few, the other is selfish survival benefiting only the elite. I would say that the leaders who order thier lower ranks to go and destroy! destroy! destroy! (and even destroying thier own guys to to breed more fear), are categorised in the latter reptillian group, while the ones who are "afraid to fight, but prepared and ready to fight when danger threatens thier loved ones", fall into the former category. The end result may be the same: survive! But the intentions of the former are more noble. A person willing to fight to defend others is far more dangerous to thier enemy than a person saving thier own skin, which is why the love song theme is central.

This is why I liked the characters in macross because of that element of realism which explores the grey areas in the main characters alot more. You CAN tell the difference between the good guys and bad by getting a view of the whole spectrum and what the characters are all about. The aliens aren't black and white either, they are not blanket evil since they are just reflections of ourselves on a bigger scale. Its not just a case of 2 armies killing each other for gain.