Pat Payne
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Posts posted by Pat Payne
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The only real complaint is this... Ms. Rial, (pause for breath)
IT'S PRONOUNCED MAH-CROSS, DAMMIT, NOT MUH-CROSS!!! Thank you.
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I'm more concerned with having a version that won't potentially crack a part, so I'm picking it up regardless. The only real question at this point I have is whether ADV will leave "sempai" in the subtitles, as only funimation & animeigo so far have left such things in their subtitles.
I'm pretty certain they will. If they left it in the dub, they're probably not gonna change it for the subs.
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Did I hear the VA for Hikaru say "sempai"? "Sempai"????
For the love of....Why are they mixing Engrish in there...[snippy snip...
] Really, they don't need to mix in the Japanese. I'd rather he say "sempai" than try to translate an essentially untranslatable-in-one-word concept.
I won't say Mari has a lisp, but her pronounciation on some words is kinda slurred. But I'll leave Mari alone since she learned English fairly later in life and some mis-pronounciation is expected.Actually, after listening to the dub snippets a few times, I think she holds her own pretty well in the English dub. She doesn't actually mispronounce or slur words so much as she does have an accent that influences how the words sound, and that comes from a childhood spent speaking a totally different language (just as der Governator's thick Oesterreichische accent makes words like "California" come out "Kahleefoania"). Naturally, words heavy in R and L sounds are the major problem there for Mari. But otherwise, she's exceedingly competent in the language (outside of a couple of slight sentence pacing issues, again due to Japanese being her native language).
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I may have to rethink my position on "pudknocker," given this definition from the Urban Dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/[/url]] 1. pudknocker link send redefine 9 up, 1 downA person (usually male) who is pretentious and arrogant, but lacks any real skill or ability. Most often used by military pilots. Around here, we got two kinds of pilots: the hotdogs who get all the hot planes, and then you got your pudknockers who dream of flying the hot planes. So, what are you two pudknockers gonna have?
Source: eyeheartboobs, May 15, 2004
Apparently, the word means "cockup artist, but who thinks he's the cock of the walk." George Lucas circa Episode One would qualify as a pudknocker in that definition.
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2) Hikaru - goes in-and-out from being acceptable to being to pipsqueak-ish. I think it fits though for that portion of the series so I'll not be too critical yet. NOTE - At times he sounds EXACTLY like Eddy Fuhrlong (sp?) from Terminator 2.
I think he sounds exactly like Matthew Broderick from "the Producers."
3) Minmay - Yeah, Mari's great and Reba West sucks but Mari's English sure doesn't help the flow of the dialogue. So far I think she's more of a problem than Hikaru but everyone is right, it makes sense that Minmay would have an accent so I can live with it.Actually, the more I hear it, the problem isn't her english per se (she is fluent, if with a thick accent), it's just with the fact that Japanese and English are so vastly different that someone who's been brought up in one from childhood will necessarily struggle with just the pacing and inflection of sentences. That's why I said they could have given her a little coaching to clear that up. But I'm willing to cut her some slack, because she is otherwise great in the role and since she's Mari Iijima.
4) Who calls Roy "lame?" Is that Claudia? If Claudia calls him lame i'm okay with it... if it's Misa I think its... well, lame.It is Claudia who calls him "lame."
5) PUDKNOCKER? Now my Hong Kong subs may be admittedly bad but I'm pretty sure PUDKNOCKER was never supposed to be in the script. Why not just "idiot?" Hell, why not "Dumbass" What the heck is PUDKNOCKER?Someone being cute, I'd guess. Hopefully, they'll change that, they should have time if they haven't started authoring yet.
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Minmay sounds great, and why wouldnt she considering it's Mari and all. Hikaru isn't too bad, a little higher pitch than I would prefer, but he is supposed to be 16 after all.
Mari's sounds pretty good, although there are times you can tell that she's struggling a little with the language -- they should have given her just a bit more coaching on English sentence inflection to make her lines sound a bit more natural. Other than that, she does a great job. (I would have given Yocchan an accent as well, though, to make it more believable that they're relatives, since Mari's accent is pretty pronounced.) I actually like Hikaru's dub voice for the most part, although we certainly could have done without the "frickin" when he discovers the battroid mode. Roy's, I'm blowing hot and cold on. He sounds like a bad ass, but is overdoing it a lot. They really should have gotten (if possible) they guy who played Spike Seigel in Cowboy Bebop. And, I hope that "pudknocker" business was an alternate take they thought was funny.
And Tiffany Grant as Misa was OK, although I kept thinking of Chidori from FMP every time she talked. As long as she keeps the acting on that level, though, I think it might grow on me (won't replace Mika Doi, though
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Sorry, about that, Waters, I misread your post.
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I also cast a vote for Virgin Road. The animation was execrable in it, and it was a key episode that shouldn't have been farmed out to AnimeFiend and Star Poo. It could have been so much better than it was. I can't, for instance, watch the knife fight between Max and Millia without cringing. Anyone who has seen how people fight with knives either on TV or in real life (I claim the former, not the latter) know that it's asinine to fence with them like they were epees. They also needed a few more beats to set up Millia falling in love with Max rather than making it a deus ex machina "Oh, I can't kill you , so I'll sleep with you" sort of thing.
Kung Fu Dandy was pretty bad, but it was a less important episode than Virgin Road. Max and Millia's wedding directly set up the events that led to Love Drifts Away.
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How ADV would proceeed to handle it is anyone's guess
If current practice from ADV of their current licenceses are any indication, then they will probably explore a way to bring more Big West licenced stuff from Japan, but we have to consider that Toy "we make crappie versions" nami might have a licence that might extend beyond HG's ability to market any Macross related stuff with any other company. So in other words, even if HG goes the way of disco music, Toynami's current licence might be carried over to ADV.
Regards...
Perhaps, although if the license issuer goes out of business, doesn't that mean that the license becomes null and void as the issuing party no longer exists? For instance, let's say I were to obtain a license for "Wacky Weeble Wacer" or something from Japan. I license another company to make toys for the program. then either I or the original Japanese company went under, there would be no company to back up the validity of the license. So Toynami may be holding a worthless piece of paper, and it would be up to ADV to decide whether they want to issue a new and valid license to them.
ANd it's looking right now like HG may or may not be involved in the thing. If I read that synopsis right, that Agrama basically pulled the same schtick that got Randy Cunningham in trouble. It has overtones of buying political influence, which means that Agrama's troubles are only beginning (as are Berlusconi's if they can prove that there was a quid-pro-quo in the arrangement). But as for HG as a whole, they'd probably have to prove (and INAL, so any legal minds out there, feel free to correct me) that the company either was involved or stood to benefit, and even then it's a hard road to hoe, as they could possibly cut Agrama loose to twist in the wind so as to protect Harmony Gold.
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Interesting news about HG
"Corriere della Sera reported on Thursday that prosecutors had this week frozen some 100 million euros in Swiss accounts of one of the accused, producer Farouk Agama, in the largest international seizure to date by Italian authorities".
According to the main media outlets in Italy that have been covering this high profile case since early this year, this Farouk Agrama is also known as "Frank" Agrama, head of Harmony Gold, mentioned by the Corriere newsaper as "produttore cinematografico californiano di origine egiziana Farouk 'Frank' Agrama" ("Californian movie producer of egyptian origin Farouk 'Frank' Agrama").
Agrama is also referred to by this daily as "'socio occulto' di Silvio Berlusconi" ("Berlusconi's 'hidden partner'").
I can't see the article, and the only other one on Google News isn't coming up either. What did Agrama do in connection with Berlusconi? And will it be enough to give them the commuppance trhey deserve for shady (but ultimately legit) business practices with regards to Macross and other properties?
Further, if HG goes into recivership or collapses over the charges against Agrama (assuming they're sufficiently bad such as trying to subvert the Italian Government), how would this help or hinder the rumored sale of HG to ADV? And whither the Macross license?
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IIRC, most actors do negotiate for a cut of the DVD/home video sales. That, for instance, was one of the factors that held up the DVD release of the TV series M*A*S*H, as Alan Alda and a couple of the other stars of the series kept the release tied up because they wanted a a larger share of royalties (especially Alda, who was star, writer, director and producer for the show later on in its run). Royalties are a big part of continuing income for an artist, and is why copyrights are such a third rail today.
I wouldn't be surprised if ADV gave Mari a sweetheart deal themselves just so they could haver her back in the role of Minmay. And as she's had 20-some-odd years now of experience in show business on both sides of the Pacific, she's most likely gotten a fair amount of business acumen or retained a good agent who has that business acumen.
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I wonder if they are going to fold this into any of the other characters?. The crew of the Macross is supposed to be Multi-National after all.
While I wouldn't want them to overdo it, it would be nice to see at least Global done that way. I hate to use the R word here, but I think they did a pretty good job with his accent in Robotech.He is supposed to be Eastern European after all.
Actually, Global's more Mediterranean (Italian) than Eastern European and if they can pull it off right (giving him a nice subdued Italian accent -- if they make him sound like either Don Corleone or [worse] Nikita Khruschev, they're gonna hear from me) it would add a lot to the program. In the same way, if they make the other characters sound subtly multinational (give Max a slight Austrian accent, or Kakizaki and Misa slight Japanese accents, if possible) it could add to the richness of the dub. But it's too easy to be overdone as well making it sound ludicrous.
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Sometimes its hard to know who certain people are in dub projects. Many go by other names to either make the industry look bigger, or so fans wouldn't haunt them and tell them they suck or their wonderful and stalk 'em.
I've got alot of friends who are in the official Voice Acting industry and they say sometimes companies recommend you change your name around or completely to throw off others so they can't go "THAT PERSON SUCKS!" And start boycotting the anime.
Not only that, but since VA jobs are (or were) usually non-union, if the person is a member of SAG or AFTRA, they often do the jobs under an assumed name to avoid flak from the union.
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And that's coming from someone who didn't know original Macross art from Tommy Yune.........interesting..........very interesting.
[meekly] My lawyers won't let me talk about that anymore...[/meekly]
Although in my defense, have you ever heard Oliver attempt to play Lupin III? Nothing's inherently wrong with ADV's dub cast. Personally, I just prefer some other casts, such as the Cowboy Bebop cast. The acting on the ADV dubs I've heard seems to be a little "over-perky" at times and a little unnatural. But nothing horribly bad.
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Over on AoD, ADV has announced the remaining English cast for Macross and surprise, surprise, it's mostly ADV regulars like Hillary Haag, Monica Rial, Chris Ayres and Chris Patton. I'm not a big fan of ADV's dub casts, but at least it ain't Tony "I can't act my way out of a wet paper sack" Oliver.
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If they can do it, more power to them. But I don;t know that it's fesable seeingg as how BW and HG have been oil and water for so long.
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As for the Imperial Japanese winning. I would disagree. Japan was too stretched for troops to take and hold Hawaii. The USN subs would strangle the supply route. Even if the ENTIRE navy was sunk at Pearl Harbour, by 1944 US industry would still have churned out a fleet which will dwarf whatever the IJN has. And of course there was still the A-Bomb by 1945.
That's why I qualified it all to heck and gone in my original post. IF the Japanese could protect the lengthy supply lines to Hawaii, they may have won a local battle in taking Hawaii, and therefore perhaps lengthening the war by perhaps anywhere between six months and two years. Roosevelt may also have been forced by Congress to drop the "Germany First" strategy in such a scenario, as there would be little but what was left of the US Pacific Fleet between the Japanese and the mainland. However, they would still have, as you mentioned, no chance of winning in an invasion of the mainland United States. It would have been like the German invasion of Russia (without the brutal winter and even more brutal Stalin), where we could draw on a massive amount of people, aready armed in many cases who could be formed up to repel the Japanese.
At no point in my post did I say that Imperial Japan had a chance of winning the war. Even Yamamoto realized before Pearl Harbor that the war would ultimately be lost when he told the High Command (IIRC) that he would be able to cut loose for six months or a year at most. After that, he said, there were no guarantees. (What is popularly and erroneously described as his boast to dictate terms in the White House was actually a warning to the Japanese leadership that they could not win the war without doing that, at a massive cost to Japan's military. Also, Yamamoto never said the quote about awakening a sleeping giant and filling him with a terrible resolve.)
What Japan hoped to do was influence US policy -- Pearl Harbor was, ultimately, the result of a massive trade dispute. Japan needed raw materials to continue expanding in Asia, and their major supplier of feul oil, aircraft aluminum and other supplies was the United States. We cut off those supplies in protest of Japan's actions in China (primarily the Nanjing Massacre and the later invasion of French-held Indochina) an action which drove Japan to desperation. Japan was given an ultimatum: Evacuate Indochina and China, and sales would resume. Prime Minister/War Minister Hideki Tojo wanted his cake and the ability to eat it as well. The plan behind Pearl Harbor, then, was twofold -- First, it was to give the Japanese time to launch a blitzkreig across Asia and take as much area into the "East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere" before America and Britain regrouped and tried to retaliate (in their wildest dreams, the Japanese hoped that the sheer amount of territory they had conquered would give us and the Brits pause). Second, the Japanese misread us -- at that time, the United States military was very small, and not yet war ready (We would not enter into planned offensive operations until the late spring of 1942, by which time men and materiel were finally coming into good numbers and good quality -- our first operations in Europe wouldn't happen 'till November, 1942.). The Japanese perhaps hoped that a good swift kick would get the isolationists and the Willkie/Lindbergh/America First (no war, no how) crowd to ramp up their actions in Congress and elsewhere and make a negotiated settlement with at least Japan, giving them a free hand in Asia. Obviously, it was as successful as Crassus' invasion of Parthia.
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While the Iowas spent 90% of their time shooting down planes and escorting carriers, they certainly weren't designed for that.
They were specifically designed to counter the Yamato class, and little more. Speed was increased over the South Dakota class mainly to keep up with the faster Japanese BB's, as Japan had been rebuilding many of their BB's and had already surpassed the North Carolinas in speed and tied the South Dakotas.
You might be right about that, David. But it always stuck in my mind that they were designed with the carrier-support role in mind as well. I may have just overplayed HOW much.
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Interesting, I wonder if they ever credited Yamato with any kills. The pity of it was that they never tried to actually take Pearl on December 7th.
That was never the mission, and may have been beyond the ken of the Japanese at that point in the war. Remember, you have to look at Pearl in the wider context of the war. On December 7, not only did the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor (to knock out the US Pacific Fleet in the hopes of, if not bringing them to a negotiated settlement, at least giving the Japanese six months to a year of a free hand to consolidate their position), but they also attacked the Philippines, Wake Island, Singapore, Burma, Hong Kong, Malaysia, and were on their way to attacking Indonesia. The attack on Pearl was just one front in a wider breakout offensive by Japan on and around December 7.
And, speaking as an American, I'm darn glad they didn't try to take Pearl on December 7. It would have been an unmitigated disaster for us, as we were already reeling from the near destruction of great swathes of the fleet, and a similar destruction among the Army Air Forces installations. Although the troops in Hawaii would have put up a credible fight, and though there were still fighting ships available, the example of the Philippines seems to indicate that the Japanese, given a good assault force and enough security of their supply lines (which was the real probelm for them -- Hawaii is a good distance from Japan and the main Japanese supply bases and areas of operation, meaning a perilous sea journey for supplies that would have had to have gone to the operation, particularly if they had to pass by Midway, still in US hands) could have caused serious problems, and perhaps even defeated the garrison in Hawaii. Breifly put, On December 7, 1941, we were flat footed. In fact, in the actual event, about the only thing that saved Pearl Harbor NAS from a third wave and an even worse pasting (the third wave was to center on the fuel depots and repair yards) was that Adm. Nagumo had no idea where the US carrier force was (they had been sent out on manuvers days before December 7) and feared they were looking for him.
They make a few interesting points, of course, a mano e mano fight like that one would've never occurred. By the time the U.S. rolled out the Jersey class BB, the U.S. Pacific fleet (i.e. the U.S. Navy) was a carrier oriented force. Before the battleships ever got into range of one another, the airplanes on both sides would've taken over.Even before then, the handwriting was on the wall for the battleships. in 1941, the battles of Tarento and the fight against the Bismarck (both times in which the Brits used the old "Swordfish" torpedo bombers to devastate Axis warships) had already put the idea that the battleship ruled the waves to bed. The Japanese were odd in that while they helped drive that lesson home at Pearl Harbor, they still prepared for the "decisive surface battle" -- one last battleship-to-battleship confrontation for the control of the Pacific. We did our best not to oblige them, and due to the battleship fleet pretty much being sunk at Pearl, had a clean slate to develop new tactics centering on avation.
In a way, that's why Yamato had to die -- she was already on the cusp of being obsolete as soon as she was commissioned in 1941. She was built for a battle that would no longer happen. The Iowa class were built for a different purpose -- their mission was to give gunfire support to land operations and to serve as a floating flak tower for the carriers. The Yamato, on the other hand, was built to engage surface ships in battle.
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Preordered on Amazon day before yesterday -- got two copies: One for me and one for my little brother.
And Lurker -- I'm of the opinion that they probably won't try to dub the songs, although if they do, at least they have the writer of "Cinderella" handy to help them out with it
Macross TV Dub
in Movies and TV Series
Posted
For me, the best dub (barring the celebrity-laden Ghibli/Disney/Tokuma ones) I've heard was Cowboy Bebop. The absolute worst was pretty much any dub job from AnimEigo (they are a great studio, but their icehouse and dub studios suck.) And although I've only heard a few clips of the Macross dub, I'm still sticking by my belief that it is not an irredeemably bad dub. With a few reservations, I'm actually getting used to it.