Capt Christopher Donovan

I still have the (as yet unspoken) question that started me on this hunt to begin with. It's neither and both a Robotech AND a Macross question, as it involves the SAME footage of the object in question, namely the SDF-1. I had need of a good size estimate for the ship, and after perusing what material I could find online I was unsatisfied with the "official" answer being presented (1200m in length). I don't feel that it jibes with either the exterior Macross Island scenes OR the rebuilt Macross city interior scenes. Nor did I feel it jibed with certain dialogue elements, such as Fokker's statement that many parts of the ship had been closed off and "abandoned", and yet it still held 70000 people with a great deal of "wasted space" as originally presented. I was hoping to find a good debate on the topic of SDF-1 size that might give me more insight, and a better figure than the "official" one...

I was just going to go my own way when I saw this part and had to respond. 1) It's called "adaptation", and it's done all the time in tv/cinema. I think it took a great deal of creatvity to take 3 unrelated anime shows and craft them into ONE multi-generational epic that holds up pretty darn well, thank you very much. 2) "Shamelessly pilfered for reuse"? You do realize, that as a continuation of the Robotech story, it would by necessity make use of that which came before it. TNG built on TOS Trek and it's films. DS9 built on both TOS and TNG, and Voyager built on all of the above. We're they "shamelessly pilfering? Were they "fanwank"? Over and done...

So now it's not an STD, it's domestic violence to like Robotech? Sereously...you need to cut down on the caffine. I just ran this by a friend on IM, and here's what he had to say: and he's absolutely right. How many Western viewers did Robotech BRING to anime? OR Voltron? Or Battle of the Planets? The original material you so love would be to Western audiences just another "Japanese anime thing" without the recognition "Westernized" anime brought to the table. I pointed out to my friend that doesn't even take into consideration your OPINION that the original Robotech material is without merit, to which he replied:

As long as you hate Robotech. Thank you for insulting not only me, but 1000s and 1000s of other Robotech fans who don't kiss ANYONE'S ass and just want to discuss our show in the company of other anime fans...

I have repeatedly said you have the right to your own opinion. That does not prevent me from disagreeing with it, nor from calling you on being excessively rude and condescending to someone of differing opinion. Show me where I've said that. 1) I came here in part seeking that very information, which several people have been kind enough to provide, and for which I thanked them. 2) If you can explain to me why I, the Robotech "fan on the street" should bear your scorn because HG is being a strong arm, I might reconsider. Disney is notorious for being ruthless in the business office as well, should I shun all Disney properties and projects as well? People's Exhibit #3. I could as easily say that Macek (sp?) took three subpar anime shows and turned them into an interesting and powerful story that made the originals look like the writings of a two-year old. You would probably be upset with me if I did. Why should we Robotech fans NOT be upset when you make broadly overbearing slams like the above against us? I came here looking for information and hopefully some interesting and informative debate on certain issues (as something of a "gear head", I have a great interest in the "tech" in the fictional universe). The existing "pure" Robotech sites I visited were frankly bereft of traffic and even MORE bereft of content. I'd hoped that, since there is a lot of overlap on that front, I might do better here. Instead I find all mention of Robotech confined to one thread that is primarily a forum to relentlessly BASH the show, and it's producers (creatively), and it's fans. I find that sad.

None of which I deny. Yet it is the "Macross fans" that are constantly making disparaging remarks NOT about HG's business practices, but about Robotech itself, and the fans thereof (as in the post I just responded to prior to this one). Are Robotech fans supposed to STOP being fans because HG's business office is staffed by jerks and a-holes?

In your opinion, which many many Robotech fans obviously disagree with. Robotech was successfully aired in the US, and must have made money for those who aired it after all. If it were an isolated comment perhaps, but it is not. I need go no further than this very post I am responding to for more than adequate proof of that. People's Exhibit #1. People's Exhibit #2. I'm amazed at how many people treat their own opinions as undebatable fact. Both the opinion I was responding to originally, and your bald assertion as to the lack of quality in Robotech. Never claimed it was perfect. Neither is it the trash you claim it is.

Not the SAME thing, but "sisters of the same mother" as it were. Why can't one enjoy both or either as they choose without being looked upon with scorn?

My complaint was that the reference to fan involvement with production was intended to be dismissive and derrogatory and infer that said participation was a BAD thing. How about a site where fans of BOTH (since they're built in large part on the same material) can hang out TOGETHER and exchange thoughts and perspectives in a friendly and respectful way about BOTH fandoms. Robotech fans don't have 'cooties'...nor are they out to ruin your fandom of the original material. Furthermore, a few individuals notwithstanding, we don't bite.

No doubt that Memo is being harsh and strident. But many of the crits I've heard go beyond HG's business practices and appear to be aimed at the creative side and the fanbase...those are two different things. So you have no problem, for example, with comparing Robotech with the Human Papaloma Virus. That's being "fair" to the fans and creative staff because you don't like HG's business practices and the modding at RT.com... Again, I have no doubt you are correct, but that in my mind does not justify being condescending and rude towards the entire franchise and it's fanbase. It assumes nothing of the sort. It assumes that generally it's better for disparate groups to try NOT to deliberately antagonize one another. Maybe so. It certainly wouldn't hurt. But does HG's business practices make the fans and the creative staff worthy of your scorn? In your opinion, which I respect your right to hold. Maybe because it's the right thing to do, and would show you in a better light than "those horrible Robotech fans" you seem so bent on trashing? Again, crit HG, not Robotech and it's fans.

Why are you assuming they're lying? The question works both ways. As to why it took years to get done, they first tried for a full series but the distributer/networks wanted too much creative control. I thought it admirable that they made the product THEY wanted to make by fans and for fans as opposed to a watered down "commercial" version any releasing party would have foisted on them.

Personally, I think that's a shame, but it's not my board... Again, a shame, because I see value in BOTH incarnations of the material. I'm not out to convert anyone one way or the other...maybe I'm atypical in this respect. I may do just that, and see if I can get some of my questions answered "sideways"...assuming I survive the slip usage of Robotech specific terms (I couldn't tell you the Macross names of ANYTHING to save my life)...

First off, thank you Gubaba and others for answering my factual question. That said, Seto, I have to challenge your assertion that the thread is not (or at least cannot be taken) as being disrespectful to Robotech and it's fandom. You only have to go to the current page (55, IIRC) and you have Robotech being compared to the Human Papaloma Virus. In one of the early posts, criticism of Tommy, et al was made that they hired "Robotech fanboys" to write Shadow Chronicles. Other examples could be cited...they aren't hard to find. I watched the "making of" viginette on the SC dvd, and I didn't see "lies and manipulation", I saw producers, writers, a composer, et al, who loved their craft and loved their project and wanted to make it the best it could be. They were excited about the project, and it showed. And the end result I thought was a fine addition to the Robotech Saga. It isn't my position that you have to like Robotech. If you prefer the original anime serieses, great. But consider how a Robotech fan, coming across this page by accident, would feel after reading the sorts of posts presented. I came here because I was unhappy with the bredth and depth of conversation to be had over at Robotech.com and Robotechx.com. I asked for advice on another board and was told I might try here, with the caveat that I would have to put up with a certain amount of bad attitude towards Robotech. I would imagine if I asked a Robotech question (NOT rights related) in any other forum here, I'd not like the responses I'd get, based on what I've seen so far. Speaking not as just a Robotech fan, but as a fan in general, I have to say that the current apparent tone and attidue don't do credit to Marcross fandom or anime fandom in general. It's like a Trek fan dissing a newbie fan because their introduction to Trek was "Enterprise" (or God forbid, JJ's movie). A better approach I think would be: "Hey, if that's what you like, more power to you. Discuss away. But if you thought Robotech was good, have you ever seen the original Macross from Japan? I think it's even BETTER..." You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, as the saying goes. Something you should consider...but it's one man's opinion. I don't claim to speak for anyone but myself.

What, we're not going to invite TOMMY out for pie? He'd probably be worried he'd end up WEARING it. MEMO is definitely a jerk near as I can tell, but is there any reason to be so disrespectful to the Robotch fans and/or production people at HG? And just what did they do? I can't seem to find out anyting other than "they pissed BW off"...

I haven't read all 55 pages of this, so forgive me if this has been brought up and I missed it, but a question occurs to me: What does it profit BW, HG or WB NOT to make some sort of deal here vis a vis the rights to the Macross designs in question? BW's already DONE all the work. They need do nothing more than sit back and collect a check. HG (and WB) would have the ability to use the designs in any future projects, getting THOSE off the ground and making THEM money. Everyone could be making money, but instead they seem bent on arguing over who did what to whom and when...it makes no sense to me. All they need to do is cut a frakking deal and ALL sides win: BW, HG, and WB (if they stay involved) make money, and Robotech fans get more Robotech with the designs they want to see. Everyone wins and no one loses...