Kronnang Dunn

I think he means that Leon's informant was hinting at the Hydra during their discussion.

Maybe Leon asked the agent/Grace for that little "favor" and to "take care of her"... (godamned gangsters!)

On that note though, I wonder if they aren't going to play mixup with the next episode.. Wasn't it Hikaru who missed Minmay's birthday? While it'd be easy for them to do that again, I kind of hope they mix it around some... like, maybe have Ranka missing a birthday due to work.. I kinda doubt it, but it sure would be a different twist.

Btw, the stone that Leon got tossed to him by... hmmm... (is tempted to call him Neo).. anyway, it didn't look at all like the earring, it looked like a rough cut shard, not at all polished. The jewels in the earrings were perfectly smooth. Now, it might be that the shard is all that's left of the earring, and was recovered.. but I seriously doubt it, given what was left of that vajra carrier.

First... Next episode

Second, I believe the "agent" (I bet is Grace) was asking Leon for Super Dimension Resonance Crystals (not her words) in exchange of giving him information on the Vajra and the VF-27... The agent gave the sample to Leon to show him what she wanted...

Why would the agent ask for more crystals? I bet they are used in both the VF-27 and the Vajra... (Perhaps as powersource).

Btw... Did Alto got his hair cut short in this episode? I just couldn't notice it, hehe...

DOH!!!!

Does that mean this thread is gonna be closed?

ep 14 - Mothers lullaby

Mother's lullaby keeps the secret in the memory of Ranca

What is the truth that the memory points to?

And, what's the relation between Vajra and Brera and Ranka?

People with better grasp of the languages please correct me if i'm wrong

Wow... Finally we will know what's the story behind "Aimo" and why only Brera and Ranka know it...

Thanks... Will edit the Macross Frontier Wiki page A.S.A.P....

Or that, so far as we've seen, humanity is actually the most peaceful race in the galaxy? I find it highly ironic that the AFOS was threatening to wipe out humanity for being too warlike when human culture ends up being the thing that can convince the warlike Zentraedi to stop fighting.

Hehehe... Give me a break. Global wars, Reaction Weapons... and u call humanity peaceful? We have culture but we are warlike. In fact... I believe the whole point of Frontier is that humanity is heading the same end the Protoculture met eons ago...

Check the analogy...

Protoculture => Extinct due to its creations, the Zentradi...

Humanity => Extinct due to its creations, the Vajra...

After seeing episode 10, I rewatched Zero and picked up the ff. tidbits from the Mayan creation legend.

Then, the bird human came down and cut its own head off.

The blood that poured from his neck became a female, Rooy Waka.

Rooy Kanu and Rooy Waka joined together and gave birth to many children.

After giving birth to their children, Rooy Waka left and returned home to the stars, which was far across the ocean.

"My dear wife, please come back to me."

The bird human replied and said,

"My dear husband Rooy Kanu... The day I come back will be when the destiny of the stars crumble.

It is the day the song of destruction will echo into the world."

The second half of the legend where Rooy Waka (the female formed from the blood of the Bird Human) leaves for the stars intrigues me.

Sara clearly "left for the stars" at the end of Zero. The question now is whether that bit about returning when "the destiny of the stars crumble" and the "day when the song of destruction will echo into the world," has any relation to Frontier?

Now onto a less "grand" topic, concerning Brera's past. I have a feeling that if Ozma does die as many have speculated, it'll be after he meets Brera and figures out who he is but before he is able to tell Ranka.

I noticed something...

Rooy KANu

Rooy WaKA

And also there's a relation with the purple crystal thingy, IIRC AFOS didn't have those crystals.

Actually the AFOS (Artifact From Outer Space... NOT APHOS) had a purple crystaline substance in its "torso" structure that looked like it was made of Super Dimensional Resonance Crystal a lot... (remember the spiral where its blood poured from... hell, the whole thing was purple!).

Possible, but taking such a long time to reverse engineer it? Possible but not likely.....

Taksraven

Likely, since Mao must have become a Doc lots of years after the events of Zero (she was 11 then) and resources must have been very very scarce at the end of Space War I. Bet Vajra development must have started 15 to 20 years later at least.

Btw... Check this out. Is from the 2008 version of the Macross Official Chronology...

2022

M3 Episode 4 Black Celebration

Invasion of the Secret Relics Base

The Dancing Skull special forces team destroy an abandoned UN Forces biological weapons research base at the site of Protoculture ruins on the planet New Asia, after the base is deemed a biohazard.

That's a whole 14 years after the AFOS incident...

No, she was turn into axlotl tank and NUNS use it to produce Vajra and their ships

Hehehe... Sheryl and Ranka must be Gholas of Sara and Mao then... LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!!!!

Well, lets all look at what's been shown to us so far. There's an obvious connection with the events of Zero and Frontier now.

1. Sheryl shares the same last name as Mao and Sara. (Sara and Sheryl don't sound too dissimilar either).

2. Ozma's mention of Ranka being fated to play the part of Dr. Mao.

3. The Vajra's similar reaction to the Bird-Human's when Ranka and Sara would sing.

4. The interest in Sheryl's ear ring and the way it seemed to play the song when Alto was in trouble and the reaction of rocks on the Mayan island when Sara would sing (This is a bit of a stretch, but still note worthy).

Moving onto Brera and Grace:

5. The Galaxy fleet was known for it's advanced technology and Brera is a cyborg.

6. Grace has implants and is seen spying on a defense meeting.

Safe conclusions we can make as of now are that there's a definitive relation between Ranka and Mao, even possibly down to inheriting the mayan priestess' abilities. Her song activating a dormant Vajra and Sara stirring the sunken Bird-Human is a very strong correlation. Also of note is that Mao became a doctor between Zero and when Ozma met her. With the Bird-Human's blood being transferred into her own it's likely she became involved in protoculture development and research... maybe even creating the Vajra?

There's a connection between Galaxy and the Vajra that they don't want to be known, so much as to send spies to its sister fleet. I highly doubt it's a revival of the anti-UN forces with how the world joined together and stopped fighting as Zentradi began attacks. Brera's likely Ranka's sibling who's been kept alive with cybernetics. Was he the person in the ship we see in the flash back being destroyed by the Vajra?

As of now, I think it's likely that Ranka is a descendent of Mao, child or even grand child (she is 1/4 Zentradi). Mao moved to Galaxy to continue her studies on Protoculture and created a "clone" of herself or possibly her sister, named it Sheryl, to continue studies on Bird-Human prototypes. Remember the reactions the Bird-Human had when Sara would sing, they would need to raise another singer. This leads to the creation of the Vajra, which get out of hand and wreck havoc on everything. Galaxy has to keep their dirty little secret quiet and dispatches Brera and Grace to keep this info out of Frontier's hands, since Frontier is one of the leading ships farthest out into the center of the Galaxy.

/end Wall of text.

Like Palpatine would say... "Goood...!!!!"

Hmm, well, that's one juicy theory shot down. If there had been a second race involved it would explain the wildly different technologies of the Zentradi, Vajra and the birdman.

There's also always the possibility that is just ONE race... The Protoculture. The differences between those creations is due to the different stage of development the Protoculture technology had when each one was made. The Zentradi were first... The Birdman much much later. The Vajra come from the Birdman...

If the protoculture is not involved in this story I will be very very disappointed.

Actually they are... but not directly.

Check this out... Is from the 2001 Macross M3 game for the Sega Dreamcast...

- Features Regult, Glaug, Tomahawk, Defender, Phalanx, Gnerl, four new variable craft (VF-9, VF-14, VF-3000, Variable Graug) and entirely new concept mecha (U.N. insectoid bioweapons developed from Protoculture genetic technology and Zentradi final weapon with two different combining mecha modes depending on ending) -

This clearly shows that U.N. Spacy/N.U.N.S. has been developing more and more advanced weapons to counter the possibility of more Zentradi or even Supervision Army attacks since Space War I. As desperate as they are, I hardly doubt they cared for the destructive capability of their creations. The Vajra are a result of that weapon development and research...

I bet the Large Red Vajra's Spirals are genetically coded in it... proof of a relation to the APHOS... A creation of the Protoculture.

Since the APHOS blood was used for a transfusion on Dr. Mao during Macross Zero, the Vajra must have been developed from her blood!!!!

Now... How come a girl like Mao becomes interested in bioweapons research and stuff and ends up a Doctor? Well... I believe she and the rest of the Mayans went to South Ataria Island and lived in Macross City (and so on). She must have experienced first hand the destruction of Space War I. Maybe after it she decided to contribute to the development of bioweapons to counter Zentradi or remaining Supervision Army forces...

If the Vajra are the result of a human attempt at backwards engineering the APHOS, they may also be a deliberate result/security measure instituted by the Protoculture. An "if you try to copy our tech to closely, it'll turn around & bite you" type deal.

Yes... Totally possible. I bet the Large Red Vajra's Spirals are genetically coded in it... proof of a relation to the AFOS/Bird Human...

Since the AFOS/Bird Human blood was used for a transfusion on Dr. Mao during Macross Zero, the Vajra must have been developed from her blood!!!!

none of them are a threat to anyone anymore.

Yep... They

...

Btw...

I've been wondering... Is the skull in Ozma's S.M.S. Skull Squadron Logo an Ox? It doesn't look like one to me...

I'd have to doublecheck, but iirc you can see it glowing in episode 9.

Of course, Alto has Brera's arms pinned so Brera is unable to use it.

Cant't wait to see Brera use it to cut Vajra to pieces with it.

Btw... did anybody here noticed how Brera also has a similar small blade concealed on his right forearm? He used it to cut the Griphon/Hydra in half in episode 10...

I just noticed in one of the Newtype magazine scans from the News thread that Brera also has a helmet. Maybe he puts the helmet on when entering the VF-27 and then he connects/interfaces with the VF-27 control system through VR imaging. Maybe that's why the cockpit seems so big and funky colored at the end of episode 7...

My theory is the Vajra are bio weapons bred through genetic cloning of the AFOS(Birdman). Cave drawings in episode 8 seem to show some connection with the Vajra and the AFOS. Vajra came out of control so they clone Sara Nome to attempt to control them like she controlled the birdman long ago. Sheryl was the product of the cloning but it seems her songs do not have any apparent effect on the Vajra so they just orchestrate her rise to stardom so they can study her more with Grace watching over her. Would be a blow to Sheryl if her popularity was made up right? Ranka on the other hand seems to have a true connection to the Vajra and coincidentally Dr. Mao as Ozma pu it; "Is it fate that you have the role of Dr. Mao?" Perhaps Ranka is the one with pure Mayan blood? The little green thing is a baby Vajra I tell ya!

Yes yes yes... This is one of the most probable theories so far.

Btw... Apparently the UNS also experimented with insectoid biomecha... Check this out!!!

"- Features Regult, Glaug, Tomahawk, Defender, Phalanx, Gnerl, four new variable craft (VF-9, VF-14, VF-3000, Variable Graug) and entirely new concept mecha (U.N. insectoid bioweapons developed from Protoculture genetic technology and Zentradi final weapon with two different combining mecha modes depending on ending) -"

Is from the Macross Compendium M3 Game Entry...

The game was released in 2001 for the Dreamcast...

Perhaps Kawamori took the whole Vajra concept from here? Maybe he kind of merged it with the Birdman stuff from Macross Zero...

Argh, it got Quarter...quarter and the Pixie will became Ranka backup vocal....(fainted....)

KAWAII!!!!!

Cyborg by its very nature means a person with mechanical parts.

...like Brera's arm...

Grace being Mao has crossed my mind before. Brera as Ranka's brother is also an interesting thought.

My theory is the Vajra are bio weapons bred through genetic cloning of the AFOS(Birdman). Cave drawings in episode 8 seem to show some connection with the Vajra and the AFOS. Vajra came out of control so they clone Sara Nome to attempt to control them like she controlled the birdman long ago. Sheryl was the product of the cloning but it seems her songs do not have any apparent effect on the Vajra so they just orchestrate her rise to stardom so they can study her more with Grace watching over her. Would be a blow to Sheryl if her popularity was made up right? Ranka on the other hand seems to have a true connection to the Vajra and coincidentally Dr. Mao as Ozma pu it; "Is it fate that you have the role of Dr. Mao?" Perhaps Ranka is the one with pure Mayan blood? The little green thing is a baby Vajra I tell ya!

Yes... I agree with all of this. It kinda fits with all that has happened so far. Ranka will be the big thing in the end...

maybe sheryl's songs didn't affect the vajra because they were commercialized

Yep... No soul on those...

"Aaaaaimo Aaaaaimo....".

That doesn't really answer my question. So they had an army for conquest, granted, that's a partial answer. But who were they conquesting? If you get my meaning? The only race of note humanity has run into is Zentradi, who have had in the past HUGE numbers in men and material (and still do, though arritition means that the fleets aren't what they were).

The Zentradi were created as Proxy warriors. Since their fleets were huge and they only knew fighting, is probable most species they came into contact and refused to surrender to the Protoculture were simply wiped out by them... exterminated... extinct... finito. Is a very very big Galaxy, so the possibilities are endless.

According to the Compendium after 2012 there are still 3 million Zentradi ships scattered across the Galaxy. However, the UN government of allied Humans and Zentradi are the reigning hegemony in near-Earth galactic space until the events of Macross Frontier.

So far the only sentient alien species other than Zentradi that has been found by the Earthlings are the Zolans (from the Macross 7 OVA)... They are humanoid and could have been created by the Protoculture too.

Presumably, they to fight something other than each other in order to exist in the first place. But, do we know who these foes were? That's my question.

I suspect the Vajra in this, because they are somewhat removed from all other examples of protoculture artefacts, save the Bird Human in M0, and that's flat-out odd in the first place.

If you watched Macross Zero there was a spiral symbol in many Protoculture artifacts. The Red Large Vajra has those symbols on its armor too...

The characteristics of the Vajra are too advanced and waaay above any type of technology the Zentradi had. If you analize the Zentradi mecha/ships designs they are pretty basic and simple in design. The Vajra on the other hand are a result of much more advanced technologies that merge mechatronics and genetic engineering.

If the Vajra are indeed product of the Protoculture they must have been developed many many years after the Zentradi were created...

Now another point to my assertion that Sheryl, Brera and Ranka are siblings, is that Brera is blond like Sheryl, yet has the same colored eyes as Ranka.

Brera is a cyborg. His eyes are artificial (just like Grace's). Hell... he may even be bald for all we know...

Ranka and Sheryl have different blood types according to the Macross Compendium. Sheryl has "Alpha" blood (Mayan). Ranka has "Oz" blood (Zentradi type).

I wouldn't be surprised if Grace ends up being a cyborg Dr. Mao Nome in the end...

Which sorta goes back to my point about the Zentradi being built to destroy the Vajra. Why were the Zendradi made in the first place? What treatened the protoculture? As is that threat still around? Is that the Vajra? You don't just bring billions of war machines into existance for no reason.

That's something which has been bothering me for a while, I'm hoping Frontier will give me some answers on this.

Well, if you read the Official Chronology, the Protoculture developed the Zentradi 100 years after they started space colonization and they used them to expand their sphere of influence.

- PC 2500s

The mass production of giant biological weapons for proxy warfare, "Zentradi," is begun. The "Zentradi" contribute greatly to the expansion of the Protoculture's sphere of influence.[PC 2600s] -

The PC possesed a Stellar Republic that dominated the whole galaxy, so no wonder they needed those massive armies of giants. Is a big galaxy, u know?

So basically they just created the Zentradi for conquering/controlling the galaxy...

Master Dex

Me too It just really links well with the fictional tech. The glow doesn't really bother me. It could be excess energy bleeding out of the weapon. More likely, it's just an effect to make the knife appear more deadly. Like you said, it's likely overpowered in order to cut through similarly powered energy converting armor.

More and more I'm convinced the knife/blade in both the VF-25 and VF-27 have an energy shield... That's why they glow and why they are placed on the shield... Time will tell...

-Second, it seems that like the YV-21/VF-22, the intakes form part of the chest in battroid and not the legs.

-There's a bit of text down there with the words VF-22, anyone care to translate?

Doesn't surprise me at all, since both the VF-22 and the VF-27 were developed by General Galaxy...

Btw, check the shoulders in these 2 mechas...

As posted by somebody else in the news thread, I believe that the VF-27 is intended as a capital ship/fighter interceptor mecha, while the VF-25 is more of a multipurpose fighter... The VF-27 is incredibly fast and (as revealed in episode 10) not even a human in ex-gear can survive its speed. It must be VR controlled by distance or manned by cyborgs (Brera?) or both (cyborg inside controlling it through VR imaging). As powerful as it is, it seemed to have a pretty rough time in close combat though...

I can't wait to see Luca hack into one of these things!!!!

Looks like it does transform just like the 25 - the arms are even the same shape. I can't figure out where those big shoulders are coming from, though...

From here...

Compare...

Take this a step further. That "Supervision Army" that has always been talked about, what if the Vajra are that army? That is a long shot, to be honest, but it gives something for the Zentraedi to fight on a galactic level. That solution can give a reason for the downfall of the Protoculture, who are now caught in a titanic war that they cannot control and are rapidly being killed off because of it.

Actually according to the Official Chronology of Macross developed by Studio Nue/Big West/Kawamori/etc. the Supervision Army was composed of brainwashed Protoculture and Zentradi. They had mecha and ships similar to those of the Zentradi. The Protodeviln were the true masters/creators of the Supervision Army. However, there's always the possibility that the Vajra could have been also developed by the Supervision Army Protoculture since they had advanced technology...

a better (and last) look at Yuu-chan before she turned into lunch.

I already mentioned that according to the preview posted in the news thread, she got hurt during the accident (perhaps the other car ppl too)... The Griphon/Hydra caused them to crash, but it didn't eat them...

Btw.. What a great episode...!!!

So Grace O' Connor wants the SDR crystals in exchange of information. She's pulling Leon Mishima's strings... Maybe Leon isn't the bad guy most ppl believe. I remember the first time I saw SDF Macross I always thought Exsedol Formo and Vrilthwai Kridanik looked like really nasty bad guys... and u all know how they ended up in the series. Maybe the same thing will happen to Leon...

Grace maybe the really baddie here... or just someone who is working both sides for some personal agenda... ooh so many possibilities... what a good plot!

A piece from me, hehe... I made it in a rush, so plz don't be hard on me, hehehe...

I already posted it in the Klan thread... (Sadly it got locked up due to some pretty graphic fan art)...

Will post the colored versions later...

Poor Yuu-chan, did she got eaten by the Hydra?

Nope, but apparently she got hurt pretty bad when her car crashed because of the Griffon/Hydra...

Just saw the Chihiro sub, and I'm having a hard time figuring out the connection between the Hydra (a creature that lives only on Eden) and the Vajra and that we'd soon see the "true terror" of the Vajra.

Unless, those who have been positing that the Vajra were created by a corporation (General Galaxy?) are correct. Then perhaps they altered the Hydra into the glowing eyed freak that we saw, and it was attracted to Ranka for the same reasons that the Vajra are attracted to her (whatever they may be).

It also looks like those who thought the corporation were experimenting on those crystals might be correct, if what they want from exchange from Leon is their research into crystal technology (or more crystals; was hard to figure out what s/he meant).

Anyways, the Hydra's now dead thanks to Brera, but I wonder what the purple-haired man-chick meant by the "true terror" of the Hydra.

Perhaps the true terror is the V-Type infection? That's what caused the Hydra/Griphon to attack... Maybe the Vajra are attacking because they are infected by it and they spread the infection wherever they go... The infection must have been engineered in the Research fleet... Or by some corporate faction (Galaxy? A Nano Virus? Grey Goo scenario?)...

This fate thing is what make me buy the theory of Mao is actually Ranka's mother, an probably sheryl's too

we do not know if Mao were on the research fleet attacked by the Bajura but Ozma and Ranka were there

How Mao Survives the Zentraedi holocaust... She received blood from the Bird Man, I guess she ends living in laboratories being a study subjetc for a long time before she becomes a docter herself

I believe Sheryl Nome is Dr. Mao Nome's daughter... Since according to the Macross Compendium she has a strange blood type called "alpha", which must be the Mayan/Birdhuman type. Ranka Lee on the other hand has an "Oz" bloodtype, which is a Zentradi type... So I hardly believe she and Mao Nome are related...

However, there's the possibility that Ranka was part of Dr. Mao's experiments and Ozma was ordered to take care of her by Dr. Mao... (This could explain the "fate" thing...).

I decline to speculate, being more of the WAFO (Watch And Find Out) school, so I just wanted to say this:

Kronnang Dunn, I ADORE your avatar!

"...Deculture..."

Thanks Gubaba...

Btw... I believe that Dr. Mao is Sheryl's mom and she gave her the Super Dimension Resonance Crystal earrings... She must have been like 45 years old when Sheryl was born. Dr. Mao must have been part of the 117th Research Fleet... That's why Ozma knows her... (and judging by Ozma's grim expression when he talked about her perhaps the experiments she made are what attracted the Vajra or she was captured/killed by them).

Sheryl's blood type according to the Macross Compendium is a strange type called "Alpha"... Could this be the Birdman/Mayan blood? There's a very strong possibility she inherited it from her mother Dr. Mao Nome...

However... Ranka and Brera are another story... Is probable they are both related (That's why they both know Aimo)... But Brera is now a cyborg and only has vague memories of his sister.

Ranka can't be related to Sheryl since according to the Macross Compendium her blood type is "Oz"... a zentran blood type... She must have a Super Dimension Resonance Crystal inside her... That's what causes her belly "glow"...

I also believe that Sheryl and Ranka were part of some experiment of Dr. Mao Nome to find the Birdman (with her sister on it)... But it attracted the Vajra instead. Maybe after the attack on the 117th, 2 different corporate factions got one part of the experiment each. The faction of Bilrer got Ranka (that's why Ozma's been babysitting her) and Grace's faction got Sheryl.... Bilrer's faction established on Frontier, while Grace's was on Galaxy. Each one wants to harness the power of controlling the Vajra. That's why they are competing and blocking each other... Who is controlling the Vajra? Perhaps what was left of the Birdman after it was nuked in Macross Zero (Thus... Shin and Sara are dead... Or maybe they fused with it...)...

Robocop was more machine than man, but he was a good guy!

However, since this is Macross, Brera's probably somewhere in between. As in, he's just an ass. A well-meaning one (re: saves Ranka's life), but an ass all the same.

When Brera appeared Ranka said "Onichan" shortly afterwards... Could he be what remains of her real brother?

And again... a Super Dimension Resonance Crystal was shown... Grace in disguise gave it to Leon...

When I think about it, Macross Universe is large, I mean the Protodevlin were the only ones from another galaxy that humans encountered

The Protodeviln were Super Zentradi developed by a Protoculture faction during the Protoculture Stellar Republic's Schism Wars and technically they were from THIS galaxy. They became possesed by beings from other dimension.

...

Back to Episode 10 discussion...

I'm not sure what the Vajra are. My original thought was they were some sort defense system left behind by the Protoculture, but now I am uncertain.

I'll quote myself on the Galaxy:

The Galaxy is a privately funded fleet. I think whoever first came up with the Aliens analogy is right, the Galaxy sees the Vajra and potential weapons technology (or actual, the -27 has an internal fold device and that, well, not sure what to call it... super dimension gun... just like the lobsters).

The Galaxy has its own agenda. Brera and the -27's are a part of it, I am sure. I am not sure that Grace is part of it, however. Lots of intrigue here, I would say that not everyone is on the side we may think they are. And then we have Dick Vilrer, not even sure where he fits in yet.

Keep in mind the classic Macross formulas. Alto will have to choose between Sheryl and Ranka, and the Frontier will join forces with either the Galaxy or the Vajra to defeat their common foe.

Here's a theory: Maybe the VF-27 people realize that the Varja have a relationship to the Protoculture and have deduced that there must be a planet housing Protoculture somewhere. They are trying to track, hunt, and manipulate the Varja in hopes of revealing the last Protoculture colony and the doubltess nirvana of technology that would exist there. The other theory would be the VF-27 created a Varja queen as an attempted weapon and that queen then flew off and has been amassing an army. Now the VF-27 folk want to wipe out the Varja on their own before it is realized what they unleashed on the galaxy.

Those are very good theories!!!