Nexx Stalker

"With the power which even the Protoculture feared, adored, and defied, to the extent of imitating its form, the Super Dimenion life form, Vajra!"

And then Ranka goes on to explain that Aim is a Vajra love song, a mating call when Vajra from other galaxies meet once in "hundreds of millions of years".

Could this be ANY more clear?

What's a Dimenion?

They may have, but they also may have simply rekindled their friendship. There really isn't exactly alot of romance between them in Plus.

We must have seen two different shows, then.

But just to annoy you, I'll add to the list of resolved Macross triangles Hibiki and Sylvie, since you like II so much . There.

Okay then, that promises to be interesting

Damn! I'm still looking for it. I have an avi of the Movie compilation but have not been able to find the reference I was looking for (yet). I may have to re-watch my original videotapes...

...talk about taking something out of context.

So it says that the Mardook created the Zentradi. I make pizza's for myself, will you claim that because of that, i make all the pizza in the world, Duke?

What Kaiba has been saying has been speculation based on the available facts, which include such statements from the creators as "The Mardook created the Zentradi", and "Mardook technology bare's a marked Zentradi design", and the topper "The Mardook have a fully functional, working Fleet Base". These points alone suggest a very high probability of the Mardook being the descendants of, or even the Protoculture themselves (Atleast, in Ingues' case).

...But thats an opinion based on the available facts.

Just like its an opinion that no matter how much they want to dismiss it, Macross II seems to be right in there with every other Macross works...even having its own page on the official site, and its Mecha (Specifically the Metal Siren) having an official designation.

Maybe if this speculative discussion is rubbing you the wrong way, you shouldn't continue voicing your 'obviously' non-importent opinion in it.

Well spoken, my friend!

Back to the speculation, by listening to the dialogue I always thought the Marduke/Ingues are what the Zentraedi calle the Supervision Army, the Macross being the Alus (a mythical Marduke lost ship) and all.

Not a mod, but a thread for this already exists

I searched for it but with the wrong selection of words. Thanks! Mods, please lock this thread.

Here you are, from ep.2. Look at the VF25's arm...

TV broadcast

Dvd version

It's good to see the are polishing the visuals of series!

PS: Strangely enough, in the M0 remaster the Shin's VF0 at the end still has leg armor attached after throwing it off in the previous shot. Well, i guess one can't have everything

I noticed this on the day it aired...

Yep, that Battle shot is so big and last for more than a few seconds, so unfortunately that error is quite evident.

Nexx and WOZ - we are So jokingly difficult to please arent we ? XD

It's a very beatiful picture, kudos to the artist. I was just being an ass

Yeah rouge Zentraedi, the Mardook ships definitely looked like something else. Remember that Zentraedi don't know how to repair or even upgrade their ships and that their designs have remained static for thousands of years. That's what made it weak, recycling that same plot device that worked in the last one for something with a completely different situation. Considering the advancements in technology, I'm sure that such an attack isn't needed anymore, I mean look at that Macross Cannon ship, that monster plus all those "advanced" VF designs are more than enough for any other ships, I can understand colony fleets, but nobody knows about the colonization programs in that parallel universe. And as Togo said as well, plot was silly and characters lame, hell, I didn't care for any of the characters in that. I had more affection for Physica in 7 than I did for Hibiki, Nexx, Ishtar, and the others' who's names escape me.

Leave any MII debate out of this thread, please.

Arigato.

Well, in the last shot on the planet, Battle 25 is again in Carrier mode... with it's main gun. Man, NUNS mechanics are fast!

Kakizaki (sad I don't know his first name)

Hayao

very nice! but where's Captain Perry and the Sagittarius squadron? XD

Or Machida?

I always got the impression that they tried to go for some sort of highly stylised look for the whole Brera/Hydra fight. It wouldn't be the first time Kawamori did something like this (Aquarion had an *entire* episode made to look ugly)... but yeah I though the result here was kinda crappy.

That being I'm not voting in the poll... it'd be like chosing between my own children. :-P Also I've only seen most of the episode once, so I'd definitly have to see the whole series a couple more time before even remotly trying to rank it with the other series....

But I digress... I'll say I just love Macross Frontier as much as the other Macross series TV or OAVs alike. It had some flaws yeah, but so did SDFM, Macross Zero, Macross Plus, Macross Zero... I'll just this was IMO everything I wanted for a new Macross series.

-Sergorn

SDF Macross has no flaws .

PS: you must hate Macross 0, you cited it twice!

I've never considered that "bad animation", more like "alternative animation"

FV

Me too. I liked it. It was strange, yes, but had an artistic feel to it.

I agree and even Frontier's attempt to up the ante felt more than a little afterthought-ish. It was clearly an attempt to broaden the scope of the series, but was done in the eleventh hour so it lost much of what it was trying to accomplish.

Digressing, I'm still holding SDF Macross over Frontier as well. It simply got more right than Frontier did. But I have to say Frontier got more right than I could have ever hoped in a modern Macross sequel. For all the fan bitching and nitpicking, Frontier was an enjoyable and exciting militaristic Macross adventure. I'd give SDFM a 10, Macross Frontier an 8 and Macross 7 a 2.

You should have given Macross 7 at least a 7.

...

Hahaha.

Well, if we reverse the situation, I cannot fathom what there would be to gain from trying to connect the two.

It'd be like trying to connect all the alternate universes of Gundam, equally fruitless. They don't fit, but they don't have to either.

Except that it fits. 7 and Plus, being completed after Macross II, were not in the plans at the time, but nothing in those series, or in Frontier, denies anything that is in Macross II. Many of Macross II ideas have been integrated into the franchise and there has been an effort (how much deliberate we may never know) of not making II incompatible with all the other series (until Kawamori decides otherwise, of course). A boy or girl discovering Macross for the first time today (without resorting or having to know about old Entertainment Bibles, magazines, etc.) could watch all Macross series one after the other and think that they all fit together and are part of a great space opera. That's all

So....you are agreeable to macross turning into a hollywood popcorn flick? That's the problem with ppl these days. They want lots of special fx, action sequences, but little to no story or plot, as long as they are entertained (i'm lookin at u Transformers). And the production houses are inclined to make more shows like these.

No, I'm not. Macross Frontier is entertaining but it is not (fortunately) a Hollywood production. In that case, we would have had 25 episodes of explosions. I simply can see that it has many faults, even if I like it.

One thing that has always amazed me is: how come DYRL is often considered superior to SDF Macross? Because of the animation or because the love for the TV series is somehow corrupted by the Robotech americanization?

Just curious.

How? See!

How did Ranshe learn it? How did Ranshe get the disease? How did Grace turn the Vajra on them?

This plot hole is the size of the Frontier fleet.

You should ask Ranka.

Seriously, a thing left unsaid is not a plothole. But most importantly, before there is a plothole there has to be a plot. Frontier simply doesn't have one. We shouldn't bother with these things, the series was incredibly fun to watch and highly entertaining and kept us eager for more for 25 (26 considering the break) amazing weeks. I think it has charm.

I agree with you, the triangle doesn't bother me either. Kinda figured no one would end up together. I don't think anyone has ended up together in a Macross story since the original. Well, ok, Shin and Sara in Zero.

Isamu and Myung, just to name two.

Someone hasn't watched Macross Zero.

Nah, the word you are searching for is "Evangelion".

I would question which definintion of the word "product" you're using. The interpretation that the series and the publications suggest to me is that the Mardook are descended from the surviving Protoculture, rather than a sub-Protoculture species (like humanity) which somehow seized control of a combined force of Zentradi and Meltrandi.

You may be right. I'll try to write down the lines of dialogue where this is mentioned as soon as I have some spare time.

What I presented was a theory that elegantly answers most of the questions about the origins of the Mardook, and is supported by a large body of evidence from official publications like Entertainment Bible 51, This is Animation Special #5, and the various B-Club Magazine articles. What you presented was an unfounded claim completely bereft of supporting evidence, a claim which falls apart when examined using common sense.

As you have stated, however, not once they clearly state that the Marduke are Protoculture.

In a dialogue of the series, on the contrary, it is clearly stated that the Marduke are a product of Protoculture.

No, they most certainly didn't. However, even if they had, I'd still be asking you to back up your claim with evidence.

Ask him to tell you the story about the SDF4, Global and Megaroad 03 (just joking, Duke )

I voted SDF Macross (even if I was tempted to vote Macross 7) because it started my addiction, so...