Sundown
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Posts posted by Sundown
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The word "Oriental" should only be used for things like salad dressing and architecture, not people
Unless your salad dressing is made of people...
"Soylen dressing is PEOPLE!!!"
Man, I am so retarded.
*Cackles inanely*
I actually appreciated that.
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Phalanx, I think a lot of us are still confused here.
Can you explain why the VF-0 isn't close enough to what you're looking for? If you look at it, it's basically a VF-1 with a surface overhaul. What about it disqualifies it to you as a "VF-1 redesign", when pretty much any VF-1 redesign incorporating modern aesthetics would look extremely similar to the VF-0?
Even the VF-1SOL you pointed out earlier looks a lot more like a VF-0 than a VF-1. So, again, what makes the VF-0 not good enough? If you could explain that, maybe folks could understand what exactly you mean by a "redesigned VF-1". Because every time you describe it, it sounds to me and everyone here like you're exactly describing a VF-0, as far as looks are concerned, except for one little numerical difference in their designations.
Do you want an "unofficial Kawamori VF-1 redesign" so you can imagine that that's how it really looks like in your personal version and vision of Macross, where in that version, the "boxy" VF-1 never existed?
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Actually, it's more akin to comparing a decent sushi dinner that some just don't have a taste for with a good prime rib that's unfortunately served with a pretty revolting creamed spinach.
Reba = spinach.
I'm like a shark! I just gotta...
Okay, I'll quit. Apparently only one other person here reads Penny Arcade.
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I mean since I was born in 1987 and the F-14 rolled out in 1970/1971, the designed had a "seemingly" smooth body to it's airframe. like around the main body, where opposed the VF-1's mainbody area , the leading edges above the air intakes are boxy and pointy compared to the F-14's leading edges. Just look at a picture of an F-14 and you can see the distinct features.
Okay, thought your main problem with the VF-1 was that it was shaped too much like an 80's fighter, with two distinct semi-rectangular intakes.
If not, then I assume by boxy you're talking about the upper fuselage/battroid chestplate. Well, for what it's worth, those "boxy" edges really became more pronounced in DYRL. In the original TV series, and some of the box art for models based on the TV designs, those edges are actually rounded out, along with those little vents on them that are above the intakes. Kawamori made them boxy later, and it's just an artistic liberty he took in his own update to the design. I don't think that feature makes the VF-1 look dated as much as the fact that it resembles an F-14 rather than a F-22.
And "boxy" isnt' really a good indicator of design era. The Superhornet is actually heck of a lot boxier than the original F/A-18. Just take a look at its intakes. But it's a newer and more modern design.
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Oh thanx Mowe, I forgot that some of the people on this forum might be asian, and I was thinking too selfish. I apologize to all of you asians iwith the utmost sincerity if you were offended by my post.
The issue some might have with what you've said isn't because you're being selfish. It's because your statements about Asian countries and their sentiments are wholly inaccurate. They would actually be delighted if Japan would waste extra effort and resources building planes that look like they belong in cartoons rather than concentrate on building aircraft that are cheap, functional, and efficient.
Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be. The Japanese government, military, and their aeronautic engineers would likely be the first to agree.
But Sundown when you say that anime artists are artists not engineers to aircraft companies doesn't that mean that they still are eligble to be a aeronautical designers? Because SK knows alot about airplanes intimately since he was a child and knows all technical details about airplanes as well. I think Japanese aerospace companies should hire SK to be an aeronautical designer since he knows all of the technical aspects of aircraft.Err. SK does not know "all the technical aspects of aircraft." That would make him an aeronautical engineer, which is what he actually dropped out of doing presumably from a lack of interest. It also suggests that there was still more for Kawamori to learn before he quit. As great an artist as Kawamori is, you're giving him much more credit than he's due, and you're giving engineers much less credit than they deserve.
It's same thing with getting a job as a personal painter where if somebody notices your outstanding painting talent and your artworks as well, that person would want to hire you as their personal painter since you have the skills, talent and understanding of the field to get the job done.Actually, it's more like hiring Jim Lee, a comic artist, to perform cosmetic surgery on you because you need a nosejob. Jim Lee was a medical school student who dropped out to pursue a career as a comic artist. He's considered amongst the best, and as a result of his schooling, has a great sense of anatomy in addition to knowing what makes people look good. But he simply does not have the skill and technical knowledge needed to perform cosmetic surgery.
And likewise, Kawamori doesn't have the knowhow needed in order to design real, efficient, functional aircraft that maximize performance over aesthetics.
I'm like a shark! I just gotta... keep making analogies!
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Yes!! Why didn't they do this scheme instead?
It fits the Low-Vis 2, it fits the CF, and it's even canon!
ARrrgh.
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Sundown I know you think that it's best for SK to remake M+ and M7 in order to make them look as if they fit their appropriate time periods but I like those Valk designs the way they are because they already look futuristic to begin with.
Actually, I don't think SK should do much of anything with the M+ design. I'm happy with them as they are, although I do wish they had more style commonalities with stuff from SDF.
IMO they fit their timelines perfectly and Sundown, when you say "based' on today's designs, theres a difference. "Based" in this case means that these designs look exactly identical to the original. Unless you meant to say "inspired" since SK admits that most of his valk designs were inspired by the looks of the original aircraft in today's world.Err. The VF-1 is "inspired" or "based on" the F-14, the foremost fighter of its day in the 80's, just as the YF-21 is inspired by the real YF-23 and the VF-17 is based on the F-117.
In fact, both of these "futuristic" designs bear much closer resemblance to their modern day inspirations than the VF-1 does to the F-14. Like JB0 says, they don't look futuristic. They look modern. They look as futuristic as the F-14 did in the 80's, and they'll be out of date the exact same way, unless design aesthetics somehow stagnate in the next three decades.
The only difference between them is that you didn't grow up with the F-14, so to you, it's "old", and that it is no longer a bleeding edge design. But the YF-21 and VF-17 will be just as dated in 20 years and just as out of place for something designed in the 2030's. Of course, at that time you'll think they're fine and should be left well enough alone, while someone much younger demands an update because stealthy facets and offset angles were sooo 1990's.
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Mari's Songs, great. Fun, catchy, and it's not Reba. Yes, it's a little dated, but all pop gets dated.
The Macross soundtrack? Parts of it really don't work for me... especially the main theme. To me, it's too corny and 70's-80's Japanese-y, which to me, dates really quickly and is hard on the ears of someone used to Western music unless you've grown up with it. It just doesn't fit my musical aesthetics of less is more, and uses a whole lot of notes in a short period of time as a main motif. I admit that I got more used to the theme over time, but whem I'm honest with myself, it still sounds kinda hokey.
Yes, I actually like much of the Robotech soundtrack better. Of course, I grew up with it, but there are some themes that really work that I was dissapointed wasn't in Macross. The RT Zentradi theme is a lot more ominous and brooding to me than the almost obnoxious WAAA WAAA WAAA! that's played when the Zentradi come out of space fold in Macross.
Ditto JsARCLIGHT's opinion. The symphonic stuff is great, the j-pop is lousy.I guess I'm of the exact opposite opinion of both of ya. The main theme and its related symphonic pieces manage to date in a way I don't think orchestral pieces should. But most of the rest is pretty good or at least serviceable since I don't notice it most times.
I don't think it's just Robotech's nostalgia and my fear of change that makes me like parts of its soundtrack more. I prefer Macross in almost every other aspect except the characters don't speak my native language (no, I know about the new dub-- IMO it's inadequate), I actually like RT Roy, and throaty Max was hard getting used to since there isn't a pretty-boy-with-booming-voice archetype in Western culture.
I know some folks think the Macross theme fits perfectly, but I know when I watched it, I wasn't expecting high-tech fighter robots and unscrutable aliens fighting to slightly hokey, Japanese folk-accented music from the 80's. I know, I know. What else could I have expected?
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Fly by wire and fly by computer are used to make airframes that are only semi-airworthy or difficult to control flyable. But these airframes are unstable as a result of extra functionality they offer-- better maneuverability, stealth capabilities, high angles of attack, etc. These are actually useful features. But fly by wire is not used to make anime fans happy simply because it can. "Looks like such and such out of this anime" is not an actual useful functionality.
It might be surprising, but anime fans are not the customers aeronautic engineers of military aircraft generallly cater to. They cater to governments and militaries, who care primarily about economy, speed, maintainability, and how well their aircraft kills people and breaks things. Any part of the design that doesn't actually help one of these areas is generally something they're not going to spend time and money on.
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If you wanna be serious about this, then SK needs to remake Macross Plus, DYRL, and Macross 7, because all of the Valkyries in those series look as if they were made today or in the the late 20th century, instead of in the 2030's.
None of the Macross valkyries look like they fit their timeframes, because all of them are based on today's designs, even though they're supposed to be from the future.
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Just don't let it get shorted to Yaoi.
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You're not going to effectively sell your comic to the average young audience if you have (COMIC SPOILERS)the Hulk talking about how Thor beating him up makes him horny and how he's gonna turn Giantman's skull into a toilet, Pym slugging his wife, then spraying her with bug spray, Captain America showing off the good, bad, and ugly sides of being overly patriotic and jingoistic, Wasp flashing her enemies, and Giantman's 10 yards wide naked buttocks. Okay, you might REALLY be able to sell your comics to the adolescents if you do most of that, but some self-righteous person will get in a tiff about it.
Most of that panders specifically to adolescents, and younger audiences are in for a surprise if Marvel is actually using a kiddified UA cartoon to sell young kids comics. And heh, you don't have to be self-righteous to find at least some of the above annoying. I might be getting to be an old stick-in-the-mud, but it's still refreshing to read something that doesn't need much of that to tell a good story. And it's a little frustrating to see certain heroines and female characters cheapen and turn into skanks with powers over the years.
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The question is, what type of trees could survive the thin atmosphere and radiation of a planet that has such a weak gravity.
Wait, didn't the VF-0 have some form of armor? I forgot if it was stationary or managed to hover.
They were fighting on Endor.
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Wouldn't. This. Be. The. VF-0?
*head explodes*
Or even the VF-2 for that matter.
Just think of either as a redesigned, improved, updated VF-1. Because that's exactly what they *are*.
For what it's worth, the VF-0 as I understand it, isn't exactly a VF-1 predecessor or prototype. It seems to be concurrently designed with the VF-1, maybe even started a bit after (not sure about this) as a testbed prototype for new technologies. And in continuity, the VF-0 was operational in limited numbers even before the VF-1 was mass produced.
Again, what confuses me is why in a redesign, you require it to be named after a design that you don't like in the first place. Especially when something close to what you want already exists in the form of the VF-0 and 2. Unless you're talking about a redesign that's altogether new, something like a VF-1, but without some of the more extreme changes made in the VF-0. I wouldn't mind seeing that either.
But it's not going to be a VF-1. Maybe a VF-1 Prime, or a Kawamori sanctioned VF-2, but not a VF-1.
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Anyway, I owe you guys a teaser, so here's another page from the same book. Enjoy.
Nice stuff. Except you included the womanizing Fett scene from SE Jedi. So now I must stab you.
*stabitty stab*
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The best comics I read were Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Batman The Killing Joke, Watchmen, and Rising Stars. Thor[/b].
Ya ever take a look at Batman:Year One? It's more Miller. I'd just finished it and think I might have enjoyed it more than Dark Knight Returns. It's pretty much Batman Begins, and a few of the jokes and moments from Begins are straight out of Year One. I have to say that I really dug Year One's art, maybe even more than Miller's own evocative but rough artwork.
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Aeronautic engineers rarely design something based on a design that wasn't designed by an aeronautic engineer. And an aeronautic engineer's primary concern is how well something flies, rather than getting something that looks neat but doesn't actually fly well to fly. Ie, designing planes to look like one out of a particular anime serves no one except anime fanboys, and that's really not their job or business.
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But JB, if you say that SK made the VF-0 as a redesign of the VF-1, why is it's model VF-0? If you ask me I found that confusing. But it seems that some of you guys still don't understand my demand. Like I said several posts before that all I want is an UNOFFICIAL redesign of the VF-1. nothing more and nothing less.
Because we don't understand why a design, that for all intents and purposes is pretty close to what you want, has to be actually be designated "VF-1" for you to be satisfied. If it's so you can somehow erase the actual VF-1 from your preferred private continuity, and so you can pretend it never existed, that's not gonna happen. =P
And the VF-0 is a VF-0 because it's designed for a prequel, and because Kawamori doesn't want to eliminate the VF-1 from continuity like you seem to hope he would. But outside of Macross continuity, in this very real world, it's Kawamori's redesign and update of the VF-1.
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OK JB0 If you say so, I gotta respect your opinion and I still haven't got anybody on this board to agree with me! Not even one person. But like I've been saying before the VF-1 still doesn't look futuristic to me. fart, for that matter ,saying that the VF-1 looks better than a futuristic redesined one is like saying that a 1970 chevy camaro looks better than a 1998 version.
I'm guessing that's because to you, "more futuristic" automatically looks better, and newer is automatically better than anything before it. Not everyone agrees, and there are folks who dig classic cars over their modern incarnations.
Some of us still feel that the VF-1 is the best designed fighter, artistically, proportionally and aesthetically, and that smoothing out curves in the name of "making something futuristic" doesn't automatically make it look better. None of Kawamori's designs are more simple and more elegant, and it's still the most pleasing design in all three modes. I personally like the YF-21, but the VF-1 beats it by a long shot in my opinion.
That VF-1SOL looks like a VF-1 or VF-0 with more junk stuck on it, and not in a good way. If you want an example of an updated VF-1 that doesn't look poop, then take a look at the VF-2's from Macross II. But to ask the original to be redesigned, even if it is an anachronisitic design for the timeline, is, well, kind of silly. Because if we follow that line of thought, *every* valk in Macross is anachronistic and should be redesigned eventually. Even the futuristic YF-19 and YF-22 are based upon real life designs from over a decade ago. There's no way a variable fighter designed in 2030-something would resemble either the X-29 or Northrop YF-23. Nor would it resemble the F-117. And the VF-11 looks less sleek than even the F-22. If you have a problem with aesthetics fitting the timeline, don't just pick on the VF-1. Pick on all of them.
But my guess is that the VF-1 looks the most out of place only because modern design conventions have passed its aesthetics by, and because we now have a better idea what something designed in 2009 would look like. But if Kawamori were to redesign the VF-1 to look modern enough to your liking, he'd end up having to redesign all the Valkyries to be that much more advanced looking over the original. I say Kawamori should just design new fighters and leave the original well enough alone. I wouldn't mind seeing a VF-1++ or something to that effect, but I don't want yet another redesign overriding the original's place in the Macross storyline.
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I don't believe that the story relies on the omission of the facts you speak of, its just that the movie would not be true to the original material or experiences if it injected something that was out of its scope. It is not an omission in any conscious thought of the director or screenwriter in my opinion, rather a detail that does not fit into the narrative. If one were to write a 2 hour movie about WW2, I doubt anyone could fit in all the details and miscellanea of such epic scale covering politics, suffering, technology, battle tactics, and etc etc. So people write stories that cover what they can cover. In this case, fitting in political commentary (even disguised as townpeople talk) would probably not flow well.
Yeah, I concede that part of the reason for omission might be because it's trying to be faithful to the adaptation. I had thought that it was a totally original work written recently. I'm curious now about reading the novel for myself, if there's a translated version. But like I said, the transition to animation itself inherently wears at the faithfulness, and the two probably would read/view very differently, at least to me.
I'd guess I'd disagree about injected commentary not flowing. And German filmmakers seem to be able to offer a love story, show German suffering and point out German responsibility all in one movie, artistically even. In fact, they just did. =)
Anybody Thinks That Sk Needs To Redesign The Vf-1?
in Movies and TV Series
Posted
So you want a "redesigned VF-1" that's more extreme in bits, but in other ways retains some VF-1 features that the VF-0 doesn't. And it looks like you don't like Kawamori's new design aesthetics. If you wan't him to redesign the VF-1, you're going to get a VF-0, or something like it, or he might just stare at you flabberghasted and say, "I thought I just did." Pretty much whatever it is you want, you'll have to do it yourself.