cheemingwan1234

I have a feeling that the Clans from BattleTech would make for better antagonists for Macross than the current Macross rogues lineup because they are humanity (and for a Macross cross, they would incorporate the children of the Protoculture such as the Windermerans into their group as well) that due to interstellar distances, lack of resources on their home worlds and isolation managed to evolve into a culture completely alien from their progenitors, making them a fresh take on the human-like aliens in fiction that Macross is fond of.

This would also play into the culture theme that Macross has as the Clans are biologically human (or Zolan, Zentraedi, etc in this cross ) but due to the cultural drift involved in interstellar colonization and slowness in travel due to the length needed to prepare for fold space travel , they evolved a culture that would be considered alien to mainstream culture in the New United Nations government such as the Clans' honor code (zellbringen, bidding down and issuing batchalls.... you get the idea ) being considered a violation of common sense by the rest of the NUNS but evolved due to the relative lack of resources in Clan space.

Moreover, it allows for the original idea of music being a tool of culture that is used to bridge cultural/communication gaps between different groups , more similar to that in Frontier and SDF Macross rather than in 7 or Delta where the music theme is used to handwave things such as Sprita or treating Vars Syndrome. Here, music would be used to bridge the gaps between the cultures of the the New United Nations Government and the Clans but military force still has to be used to stop the Clan Invasion once enough knowledge of how the Clans work is gained from them.

Okay, what weakness does the Minmei Attack has and how would you hard counter a Minmei Attack if you are a Zentraedi Main Fleet commander?

Well, if you are trained to ignore/resist the effects of such an attack....I'm pretty sure you can trace the transmission of the music to the source *and then blow it up as a viable option.

*If the enemy get into your comms,..it is possible to trace said intrusion back  to the source and then counterattack.

.....how would you organise them militarily ? I can picture while they may be placed into the air forces of a country, I think it may be an incentive to merge the air forces back into the army due to the versatility of the variable fighter allowing for easily accessable organic air cover.

Alternatively, I think that it might cause issues relating to interservice rivalry within the air force and the army as variable fighters can serve as mobile ground assault units in addition to the role of aerospace combat

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So, there are typically a couple different modes of ejection for a Valkyrie... ones using just the ejection seat itself, and one that punches the cockpit block off as a lifeboat of sorts.

On the VF-25, the orientation of the cockpit in Battroid mode puts it on the Valkyrie's back with the canopy facing outwards.  Battroid mode ejection is not described in detail, but it seems fairly likely that the ejection path is horizontal or a horizontal kick backwards through the ejected canopy and then up using the boosters in the EX-Gear.  The Sv-262 has a fairly similar orientation, so its ejection is likely similar.  (It's possible this involves explosively separating the plate holding the wings on as well.)

 

Thanks.

I can picture a system where the head is blown off by explosive bolts in battroid mode for the VF-1 before the ejection and the VF-19 using it's battroid mode egress hatch as the ejection path for the ejection seat but how does it work for a VF like the VF-25 Messiah or the SV-262hs since I can't picture how the ejection seat would fire off safely.

Speaking of which, I wonder if the Nousjadeul-Ger played a form factor in how the battroid mode of the VF-31 looks like. They share the same back mounted fold out cannon silhouette

Macross: Clan Invasion

Okay, because time to do a BattleTech: Clan Invasion in Macross since the plot bunny has been nagging at me and because I think that the Clans from BattleTech would make a suitable enemy for Macross that is familiar to us as humans in that they are mostly humans (since Macross does have human-like aliens which will be incorporated into the Clans in this cross) but due to their conditions in the worlds they call home, they have evolved morality and values that would be considered 'alien' to us and the need for music to bridge the gap in something that the average NUN citizen and a Clanner can find in common.

Story Synopsis:

In the years following Space War One, many colonization fleets left to ensure that the fate of humanity would not be dependent on a single planet. One of those colonization fleets was led by General Aleksandr Kerensky, leading the Megaroad 06 colonization fleet. Unfortunately, it was presumed lost when it encountered a fold fault in it's destination, cutting off communications with the UN government on the fleet .

Until now in the year 2067 (that's the year in which Macross Delta takes place, so yes this does butterfly away Macross Delta) when a chance encounter by a NUNS explorer ship a few months ago in what is now called Clan Space resulted in the Clans; the descendants of the Megaroad 06 fleet invading the rest of the NUNS . With Destroids, Power Armor, Battle Pods and Variable Fighters that no one in the NUNS has ever seen before, they cut a swath through the Brisingr Cluster, starting with Windermere IV which was razed by the hands of Clan Smoke Jaguar and worse, when NUNS forces tried to do the Minmei Attack (exposing them to culture through music) onto a Clan Jade Falcon force, it backfired on them when they realized too late that their Clans have their own culture and they have their own singers called Warsingers to boost the morale of their own warriors .

Only the intelligence by the Wolf's Dragoons (a former Clan scouting unit disguised as a PMC gone native) on Clan forces given to the NUNS has managed to wring out a few victories by the NUNS. However, all will change when a PMC unit known as Xaos encounters a life pod after a pyrrhic victory for the NUNS against Clan Smoke Jaguar bearing the insignia of Clan Smoke Jaguar containing a live but unconscious Warsinger and bring it in to their headquarters, the Macross Elysion.

Central Theme:

The main central theme would be cultural drift in this story. Since the Macross universe has quite slow FTL due to the need for a long time to prepare and recover from a Fold (FTL travel), it would result in a lot of cultural drift that can be aggravated by the distances involved in colonization and fold faults , resulting in completely new cultures such as those in the Clans.

In addition, the music in Macross would be involved in helping to bridge gaps between Clanners and individuals from NUN (New United Nations) space once one of our protagonists in the Macross love triangle (a Clan Warsinger) encounters NUN culture for the first time. Also, music would be used to keep morale up. Unlike Macross 7, Frontier and Delta, music is not magic and military force still has to be used as the deciding factor to stop the Clan Invasion.

Other Notes:

Mirage as main protagonist and one that the Clanner protagonist falls in love with as part of the love triangle (She's underused in Macross Delta.)

The Timber Wolf is called the Cerberus for it's New UN Spacy reporting name instead of Mad Cat unlike in Battletech because for two reasons. 1: The targeting computers for the Macross universe would try to tag the Timber Wolf as a Glaug and a Destroid Phalanx at the same time instead of Mad (Marauder) and Cat (Catapult) and GlaPha does not roll off the tongue as well as Mad Cat and 2: like the three heads of the hellhound from Greek mythology, it's fast for it's weight class, it packs a lot of firepower and armor and when something is in it's sights, it usually dies.

Include 'You dare refuse my Batchall' reference from the BattleTech cartoon.

i.e

"I am Galaxy Commander Hang Metha. We are a Galaxy from Clan Smoke Jaguar. One of our Warsingers is missing. We believe that you from the mercenary company called Xaos has the Warsinger that we mentioned. Hand her over."

"And if we refuse?"

"Identify the forces that you will bid in your defense of one of our Warsingers that you took from us."

"What's this, an auction!?" (laughter)

"Language! You dare to refuse our batchall!?"

"I'm sorry, what did you Clanners mean by a 'Batchall' ?" (more laughter)

"You have sullied our language and honours, you dezgra freebirth Zentraedi halfblood * and refused our batchall to fight honorably . We will make sure that when we eventually catch up to you, filthy Xaos mercenaries , you will beg for a fast death!"

*Galaxy Commander Hang is refering to the captain of the Macross Elysion; Captain Johnson who is also a half human-Zentreadi hybrid similar to Mirage and not Mirage herself

4 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Because unlike Fighter or even Gerwalk modes, Battroid scan turn to follow an enemy while firing much quicker, given the smaller turning radius it needs in order to do so. Additionally, in land/ surface environs, the ability to move upon that with humanoid-like ability is invaluable in combat situations, as well as use the strength in its' arm and leg actuators for combat. Battroid mode has a wide array of versatility in combat which has proven invaluable time and again.

Ah, I see. So something meant for one thing that proved useful for other things.

Battroid mode for a variable fighter was implemented to fight macronized Zentraedi in hand to hand combat, but post Space War 1 with most Zentraedi bar the occasional rouge fleet living peacefully with humanity which would not result in a need to usually fight macronized Zentraedi bar a rogue fleet, so why do variable fighters post Space War 1 have Battroid mode?

34 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Although if they were to employ realism, they could save a ton on special effects and CGI models.

Though toy sales would suffer....hehehheh 

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Essentially, yes.

There's not much point in using visual camouflage intended to defeat the human eye when VFs and battlepods do their detection, range-finding, and aiming with powerful radar, infrared, laser, LIDAR, and optical camera systems that are all far more potent and precise than the Mk.I Eyeball.

But especially in space, where any VF that doesn't have strong external light source nearby shining on it is going to be illuminated primarily by its running lights and formation lights like in this shot from Super Dimension Fortress Macross Ep6 "Daedalus Attack".  That's Hikaru's VF-1J, btw... which is gloss white with red trim.

 

Bah, the minute Roy finds out the Zentradi have liquor rations he'd go full MAKE LOVE NOT WAR.

 

Yes, Major Roy Focker was the Commander of the Air Group aboard the Macross.

Macross is a bit old-fashioned about the CAG title/position, though.  Instead of being an administrative-only position for an officer promoted out of squadron command, it's a title held by the most senior serving squadron leader among the ship's embarked squadrons as it was in World War II.  The CAG is effectively the department head for the ship's aircraft and reports directly to the captain.  The CAG doesn't command all the aircraft during operations though, that's normally handled through the various flight controllers, the forward air controllers, and so on.

 

As indicated previously, the visible differences between variants is pretty minor and profoundly unlikely to have any real implications for the survivability of a unit's commanding officer.  They're only easy to tell apart when they're standing still in Battroid mode, which they generally do not do in combat, and if you know what you're looking for.

The chain of command being what it is, even the loss of a squadron leader is more an inconvenience than a crippling blow.

The New UN Forces generally doesn't bother with dedicated command variants, because it's cheaper to have one common variant for all pilots.  The VF-1's the only main fighter that was known to have a command variant.  The 2nd Gen VF-4 and VF-5000 didn't, nor did the 3rd Gen VF-11, the 4th Gen VF-19 1st Mass Production Type (VF-19A-E), the 4th Gen VF-171, or 5th Gen VF-24.  Command variants only reliably show up in VFs intended for niche operations like special forces units (VF-17, VF-19 2nd Mass Production Type, etc.) or in the isolated case of the Macross Frontier fleet's 5th Gen main VF (VF-25), though it's not clear if they actually use the VF-25S as such or just have everyone in the NUNS operating the VF-25A/C type.  The VF-31 follows the central NUNS model of having one variant for everyone.

So, the above picture is a lot like night fighting? And okay, if the differences in heads and colour are quite minor to the point where the CDR might not be singled out unless if they know where to look at the typical engagement speeds , that what's the point of the VF-25G aka that sniper VF?

5 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Which means they could paint themselves like an ice cream truck and it wouldn't matter.

*imagines Roy, Hikaru, Kakizaki and Max all slowly trudging through space, their valks blaring some insipid ice-cream truck music*

Roy: "Come get yer free ice cream, you Zentraedi mother..."

Seriously though, in Roy's case, he was the CAG, which meant he pretty much was in charge of all the valks, correct? Or did I misfire n this?

Yes, the CAG is in charge of the planes attached inside a carrier such as the SDF-1. 

Command variants of VFs might make sense for the Windermereans due to their chivalry thing but for the UNS/NUNS or the SMS PMC , it does not as it makes officers more obvious as targets. A VF may be peanuts when it is lost, but an officer represents  a major cost in terms of investment when he/she is killed or captured.

46 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

But would it really matter in-universe? I mean, that's what happened between Roy and Ivanov in Macross Plus. They recognized each other thru the emblem in the fighter. So taking down the leader would mean disorienting the rest of the squad. Is that correct?

 

Yep. While the differences in heads would not be obvious at the speeds of a typical Macross engagement, colours should be more visible. 

While it's a common trope in anime for mechs to have custom variants for the heroes and commanders to distinguish them from the grunts, what are the in universe reasons for variable fighters having specialised variants for commanders of air groups and squadron leaders? Would'nt it make them a easier target and result in loss of specialist personnel?

And back to the topic, I wonder how the rest of the roadies loathe having to service the rest of the Sound Force VFs since their controls are so different from the factory standard.

And speaking of which, I think that General Galaxy 's SV line would be known to be a giant pain in the arse to service.

On 11/30/2020 at 11:10 PM, Marzan said:

Basara's VF-19 Excalibur Custom. I could be crew chief and roadie at the same time and service that sweet guitar control scheme.

You would hate that guitar control scheme. That thing is a pain in the butt to service because it is so different from conventional VF controls. Not to mention earning the wrath of Basara if you accidentally botch the maintenance. 

On 9/25/2020 at 11:13 PM, Mommar said:

My Grandpa was a Chief Master Sargent and retired from the Air Force in the early 70's after being an F4 specialist.  He used to RAIL against engineers who were supposedly so smart they could design some fancy flying contraption but didn't have the intelligence to figure out how to make anything accessible.

Fascinating stories about driving out into Nazi controlled North African desert to salvage parts from downed planes so they could maintain flying the P-38's doing bombing runs on Southern Italy.

To quote the designer of the PPSH SMG, "It is very easy to do complex things, but to keep things simple, that's very difficult."  I sometimes appreciate the engineering genius of Russian military hardware because they make their stuff easy to repair with easily accessible compartments.

Speaking of which and back to the topic of VF and maintaining them, I wonder if the VF-19 is loathed by crew chiefs and their ground crews. That high performance has a tendency to wear down parts faster.

Which Variable Fighter you would love to maintain and which Variable Fighter you would not like to maintain? For me, I would be happy with maintaining the VF-25 Messiah family because the linear actuators used in the design would help reduce wear and tear of the transformation mechanisms. I will loathe maintaining the SV-262 Draken III family because of the way it transforms.