Agent ONE

Wow... That Basara cosplayer sure does look like the anime.

This sets a new world record for lame.

Not true.  A budget for a TV show is in direct correlation to how much advertising they can sell.  Never more than that, and that isn't much compared to a movie budget.  These companies are in business to make money, fans seem to forget this.

That makes perfect sense for broadcast TV. Is it true for cable as well? Do the subscription fees offset the money from advertisers?

For Cable TV its a different model (even though some DO have advertisers) but there is still the same constraint. There is a seriously limited budget. And just because a show souds "cooler" than maybe the plot of another show doesn't mean they can spend more money on one versus the other.

There is no way from a financial standpoint that ANY TV show could be produced for a higher budget than those produced today.

It's Star Wars your talking about though. Advertizers will pay out the ass for those commercial slots.

Those slots are STILL only worth so much. Just because its Star Wars doesn't mean the entire world will watch it. Even if it could it reached world record viewership for a episode type show (IE: NOT like a miniseries) it would still command a pathetic budget in comparison to movie budgets.

You speak the truth... but I'm curious about something you might know.

Are they factoring in the eventual DVD sales/licensing into the shows now? It seems pretty obvious that the DVD rights to a big franchise would be worth quite a bit and could help offset the show budgets.

I mean, they've got to be making dough off of TV DVDs if they're going to put out as many as they have lately.

I would say that you have an important factor, but keep in mind that with Tvo now, TV is worth much less on DVD. people can record it and seconds later it makes it onto a file sharing network.

Not true.  A budget for a TV show is in direct correlation to how much advertising they can sell.  Never more than that, and that isn't much compared to a movie budget.  These companies are in business to make money, fans seem to forget this.

That makes perfect sense for broadcast TV. Is it true for cable as well? Do the subscription fees offset the money from advertisers?

For Cable TV its a different model (even though some DO have advertisers) but there is still the same constraint. There is a seriously limited budget. And just because a show souds "cooler" than maybe the plot of another show doesn't mean they can spend more money on one versus the other.

There is no way from a financial standpoint that ANY TV show could be produced for a higher budget than those produced today.

It's Star Wars your talking about though. Advertizers will pay out the ass for those commercial slots.

Those slots are STILL only worth so much. Just because its Star Wars doesn't mean the entire world will watch it. Even if it could it reached world record viewership for a episode type show (IE: NOT like a miniseries) it would still command a pathetic budget in comparison to movie budgets.

Not true.  A budget for a TV show is in direct correlation to how much advertising they can sell.  Never more than that, and that isn't much compared to a movie budget.  These companies are in business to make money, fans seem to forget this.

That makes perfect sense for broadcast TV. Is it true for cable as well? Do the subscription fees offset the money from advertisers?

For Cable TV its a different model (even though some DO have advertisers) but there is still the same constraint. There is a seriously limited budget. And just because a show souds "cooler" than maybe the plot of another show doesn't mean they can spend more money on one versus the other.

There is no way from a financial standpoint that ANY TV show could be produced for a higher budget than those produced today.

Look at Airplane! sequel

Are you crazy?!? Bill Shatner in Airplane 2 was mesmerizing! No matter how bad the rest of the movie might be, it was worth it for just those scenes. . .

H

THIS from a guy who thinks Return of the Jedi sucked.

Yes Godzilla, Airplane 2 was just like all other parody sequels... All the same jokes just one more time... Lame.

Parody movies are only funny once. If a sequel is made it is usually just a rehash of all the same crap.

Just look at Austin Powers.

Only show I watch is Joey. I miss Friends...

I watch America's Next Top Model also. Did I mention the GF is a remote Nazi?

Thing doesn't work for me.

oooooooooooh.

That actually isn't that bad. I guess if I felt I could put a lot of time it would be worth it.

I play Quake 3 for free and its better than Halo.

I'd never pay a per month charge to play ANY game online.

I had an apache... I stole it from a military base just north of Escobar International Airport in outside Vice City.

Waiting for a workstation backup to finish at work before I can do anything productive. So I thought I'd find this dead horse and beat it a bit more.

The timeline and/or Lucas Suck-o-meter as measured by pointless stupid kiddie things, prat-falls, and other lame attempts at pedestrian humor. Color-coded for severity!

Green: Actually works as humor without necessarily being directed at kids. Often dialogue-driven and believable.

Orange: Funny. But seems a bit contrived and/or forced. In the end, not bad.

Red: Obviously directed at children. Kids love it. Adults squirm.

SW Episode IV: A New Hope

• R2-D2/C-3P0.
  
• Han and Luke acting all polite and/or confused as stormtroopers.
  
• Banter between Han and Leia.
  
• Banter between Han and Luke regarding Leia.
  
• Chewbacca screams at "mouse droid" then laughs.
  
• C-3P0: "Listen to them! They're dying R2! Curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough!"
  

SW Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

• Han and Leia banter/flirting: "You didn't see us alone in the south passage. She expressed her true feeling for me."
  
• Han: "Laugh it up fuzzball."
  
• C-3P0's antics (getting left behind, interrupting Han and Leia, various idiotic behavior)
  
• Yoda's harmless idiot routine while he tests Luke's patience.
  

SW Episode VI: The Return of the Jedi

• Burping toad creature eating mouse creature.
  
• Jabba knocking Threepio down.
  
• Boba Fett's accidental death at the hands of a befuddled Han.
  
• Burping Sarlaac Pit.
  
• Wicket (ewok) hitting self in head with sling.
  
• Han trying to blow out the torch with his breathe.
  
• Ewok/Chewbacca making "Tarzan" scream as they swing onto AT-ST.
  
• Ewok taking a speeder bike and diverting the guard at the bunker.
  
• Ewok celebration at the end.
  
• Ewoks in general. Thus, mangling the final 1/3 of the film.
  

SW Episode I: The Phantom Menace

• Each and every thing Jar-Jar Binks does. The sole reason he's in the film.
  
• One of the main characters is a kid. Who, incidentally, saves the day largely by accident.
  

I can't say much more about ep1 because I've only seen it twice and that was years ago. But, to me, it represents everything that went wrong with Lucas's "vision" in Jedi to the Nth degree.

SW Episode II: Attack of the Clones

• 3P0's antics during/after his head is replaced in the droid manufacturing factory. Might as well have been watching The Three Stooges.
  

Only saw this once. So I'm sure I'm missing more ham-fisted attempts at comedy and/or reaching out to kids.

Now, of course, consider that he retroactively went back and put a lot more of the "red"-type stuff from the latter three movies into the first two movies that lacked them. . . and you just might start to figure out why some people who don't like the latter three movies very much are a bit bitter about things. For the life of me, I can't understand how someone can look at all of the Star Wars movies and declare that they are equally catering to a child's sensibilities. Hell, some of the TV and trailer spots even marketed ANH as a romance!

I almost included the Indiana Jones movies in this list. But tying them into this debate requires more verbage and the arugment is less easily made via a chart. Suffice it to say that Indiana Jones goes from being a dark anti-hero with intelligent friends to being a total Daddy's boy whose idiotic friends merely surround him for moronic comic relief. And, note that these changes take place in the Indiana Jones series at the same time as the Star Wars series (After The Empire Strikes Back and Raiders of the Lost Ark). Oh, did I mention that he had a daughter at about this time?

Yes, it was incredibly anal of me to create this list. But, to be honest, I'm a bit tired of the dismissive: "They're all the same. . . They're all for kids. . .You're perceptions of them are tainted by nostalgia" line of argument that merely asserts this without backing it up. If that were true, I'd have grown up and become disappointed with all the Star Wars films, not just Jedi.

H

You make good points.

Nobody can argue that Jar-Jar exists only to please sissy little panty-waste M7 fans... But you left tons of stuff out. There was pleanty of adult dialogue in ROTJ. It was not for little kids.

Phantom Menace was mared by Jar-Jar but other than that it was just like the other 3 SW movies. And AOTC was to par with the rest.

When making comparisons the way you did you can't just pick the stuff that bothers you.

And so you know.. All the stuff that bothered you I totally agree with, I just think in comparison to the rest of the film(s) its trivial.

You SW fanboys are all retards.  Lucas can do whatever he wants to the OT... the SEditions are better. You ALL know it.

You are just looking at ways to tear down an icon because if you do it makes you smart or something... 

Just so you know, Monuments are built to artists, not critics.

Yet another well-thought-out post filled with reason, examples, and infallible logic. Thanks man. What would we do without you?

Whither away and die I suppose.

H

It wasn't a post of reason of logic... Its just my opinion, and since I am SO fukin awesome, you should bow to me and beg for my mercy.

You SW fanboys are all retards. Lucas can do whatever he wants to the OT... the SEditions are better. You ALL know it.

You are just looking at ways to tear down an icon because if you do it makes you smart or something...

Just so you know, Monuments are built to artists, not critics.

HAHAHAAAAA!

That rules.

Hells yeah... I can't wait to mail a dead cat to an MW member.

Hate to bring up an old nitpick, but why do people still post their avatars to the test forum? The board changes the name of the upload (attachments get a "post-*" prefix while avatars get "av-*" prefix) so that it would not get deleted (without admin intervention). As long as people learn to work with their restrictions (64x64 jpg/gif/swf/png/etc) I don't see a need to keep posting avatars to the test forum.

Don't forget the less then 40k for the dialup weanies.

That restriction doesn't work. WDC's new one is 116 and I think Kin's is like 300 something. I don't think it really matters though. Once its DL'd once it just reads locally.

WDC,

Awesome new avatar!

....

Mods, feel free to close it.

TRANSLATION:

I now look like a biatch to all of my peers. I am ashamed and want to jump off of a bridge. Please close this thread so I don't have to see the reminder of the fact that I am a 'panty waste' anymore.

i think it's great thta mac+ converted a robotech fan.

robotech left quite a mark on me that i'm trying to get rid of with macross. macross is so much better (though... i dont' think i'll ever imagine misa as asian, she looks so white to me) anyway... yay mac+

also, i think agent ONE's body is great. it's just... great.

Ah, obviously a man of briliance!

Ahhh... The price I pay for being beautiful AND correct all the time.

i only picked Agent One cause i know hes an avid mac 7 hater plus he always calling something or other gay.

if someone says they hate something and that its gay, you also have the choice not to reply to it. again, ignore it and it will go away. by repsonding to it your only feeding ones hate. and we all know, hate leads to fear, fear leads to anger, anger leads to suffering. or whatever the heck yoda says in epi2.

BTW, you calling him names isn't any better than him dissing mac 7.

I never use the term "gay." I think its unfair to homosexuals to use their term as an insult to something...

Besides calling M7 just simply "gay" is almost too nice.

....

*readies pack of salt* Agent One is not the only one, though he does act childish if something doesn't appeal to him.

Ahhh, come on now. Be nice. Maybe if you behave yourself I'll let you feel my muscles at the next con.

Why is it that the little girlie men always want to call me childish? It must be bicep envy. I mean seriously these sissy little girlie men are crying and whining about one thing or another and they they say I am childish?!!! HA!

You don't need to bother with one of your loser replies, you can just hear me now and remember me later.

And with that... I shall pass on this movie!!!

Me too.

Nothing but Economic Girlie men at Hasbro.

LOL, this isn't Arcadia (a place where Robotech fans take turns calling each other gay)... and you aren't a guy.

I am the least homophobic person you know.  My problems with M7 are 50% its sissiness, and 50% its lameness.

Maybe its YOU thats affraid of something.    Possibly thinking of rubbing baby oil all over my pecs and abs!?    Don't worry about it!  Its expected.  Nothing to be affraid of at all.  I am an object of desire for thousands.

Your post made ZERO sense form top to bottom.

1) What the flipping HEYULL does Arcadia have to do with your inability to stop acting M7's the epitome of "gayness" like being gay is thw orst thing int he world. (Not that the Pink Pecker Squad isn't)

2) What the bloody FLUCK does my gender have to do with me saying you are sounding really homophobic in regards to M7's "gayness"? And your over the top comments display that.

3) Your chin is bigger than Leno's (that's very unattractive to me) and your ego makes you about as attractive as a 3 foot tall naked midget with hairy cactus legs and a rubber chicken tied to his genitals screaming "SEE ME PICK UP CHICKS!!!". Confidence is one thing but the a head the size of Nebraska yet lacking balls of the same size to match with it is another.

EDIT: Don't bother using the reverse psychology approach. Shant work.

My post was a bit scatered...

I actually don't like to use the term "gay," and to tell you the truth I don't think I have used the term "gay" to describe M7. So your entire argument is kinda ungrounded.

I DID call it sissy, and it is, but "sissy" is a term that wouldn't be insutling to anyone, where as "gay" would.

If someone asks the open ended M7 question, they are going to get my answer. I hate it. I hate the thought that I could possibly be assiciated with something that lame by anyone who comes here and only hears from the M7 fans only. I must bring balance to the universe.