wolfx

I went to sleep yesterday before seeing your response, and Junior did a better response than I probably would have. If by this point you can´t be convinced, then it is because internally you already have decided that you don´t want to be convinced. And I am a bit tired to engage in fruitless internet discussion, because nothing ever, *ever* comes of it but more going around in circles.

And to the people who deny that Sheryl and Alto slept together, a.) V-Type disease isn´t AIDS, so it could as well be that you need more than sexual contact to transmit it... Sheryl would know, as she saw detailed medical reports on it from Lucas hands; and b.) There is a serum against it, if it is in the early stages.

I also believe that Sheryl and Alto slept together, partly because I want it to have happened, but mostly because the hints were there. But, again with the "Some people need big flashy neon lights". Subtletly is a lost art, it seems.

Remember WTF-1. There's no subtlety in Macross with Kawamori on the helm.

And did you just came up with that "need more than sexual contact to transmit it... "? Where the heck did they mention that? It clearly said it spread through bodily fluids and sex is like one of the prime ways of exchange of bodily fluids.

Well if you can sleep better thinking they slept together, go ahead and think what you wanna. I personally don't want the shipper wars to continue on this board. Its getting stupid.

Perhaps that should read "There's no way Sheryl will have unprotected sex with Alto".

Presumably they still have condoms in 2059, or perhaps by then the technology exists for the more secure 'pin-point-barrier-doms' (PPBD).

Graham

That made my day.

I noticed this on the day it aired...

The sniper rifle ended up behind the left shoulder, attached to the armor, so it didn't magically disappear.

Interesting. Looks like it was stored on the left wing's missile hardpoints (assuming it has hardpoints...or maybe its the fastpack ones)

I think I'd go with the reference to DYRL. Misa somehow was able to decipher the notes and lyrics and then even know the song was a commercial one. There's a vague mysticism about songs in Macross. I already mentioned a Japanese term, haragei (acting from the belly), which means "comunication without words or gestures", that is, emotional comunication. From the emotions put in the song, one can learn what was a song about, even if the song was not even heard. It's highly poetic, although it doesn't make sense

FV

Actually for DYRL?, the music box melody was all they had. So they written the lyrics in.

And sometimes, the melody can tell you what its trying to convey, and in this case they somehow deciphered it to be an old Zentraedi love song. Well it certainly didn't sound like a war song.

junior please stop speculating that Sheryl had sex with Alto because Sheryl is aware of her condition.

V-type is transmitted by blood and fluids. Sheryl is careful about that.

Well done.

Its obvious that the majority of the fandom are sheryl shippers and majority means they tend to attract more ppl who are blind to everything else except cases that support their shipped object.

In this case i support Redwolf. There's no way Sheryl will have sex with Alto since she was so concious of her disease and not even wanting Alto to come near her bleeding finger what more her intimate parts. Get a grip, junior.

If you've watched enough harem anime with harem ends, you'll know this is the classic harem end formula. Undecided guy will always want to hold all eggs in his basket, some girls seem close to winning him but in the end, no particular girl succeeds (though the childhood friend always comes close) and they all love him and share him with the other parties with a "Makeinai" speech at the end.

Besides if you ask Kawamori, i'm sure he'll give you some strange cryptic answer.....like questions about Ranka's hair.

Yup, the gunship of Frontier and the gunpod of Quarter were both destroyed by the same shot.

Actually no. Quarter's cannon grazed the macross cannon and they let go of the cannon. Frontier's gunship more or less took a direct hit but was damaged rather than completely destroyed. After landing on Vajra homeplanet (which i would like to now call Planet Frontier for ease) their cannons are still intact and has abit of damaged look to it.

Unless of course its a blooper.

So is Luca = Luke or Jesus?

To me it seemed like he just allowed the A.I to take over the controls for the Ghosts whereas before it was subservient to its master. Prior to Judah, the Ghosts will maneuver itself but target acquisition and "commands" probably need to be issued by Luca. With Judah System, the Ghosts get full autonomy like the X-9s. In fact i think the phrase Luca says when releasing them (something about releasing yokes?) is a bible verse.

Angeloni is such a stereotypical Catholic name after all.

Well they never said that Sheryl was Mao's grand-daughter either... It's safe to assume she is though. Not eveything need to be "spit out" to be true.

Its quite clear Sheryl is Mao's grandaughter....no one can deny it. Its on screen for chrissakes.

And not everything needs to be spit out to be true? Where were you during WTF-1?

Geez. I was coming to post that. Ever since the first teaser of Macross Frontier (with the blonde Cathy ), I thought there was to be some connexion between the Vajra and the Bird Humain in some way because there seemed to be some similarities. I was right.

You must have missed the part where they explained than the Bird Human was essentially the Protoculture mimicking the Vajra. It might seem an off hand comment... but that sounds quite important to me, and it certainly have some implications regarding the importance of the Vajra in the Macross universe as a whole.

-Sergorn

They never said that the bird human was protoculture. All we see are flashbacks of the AFOS but i can see why you're drawing this conclusion.

Other than Dr. Mao and the ear rings...i failed to see the connections though.

I've never considered that "bad animation", more like "alternative animation"

FV

Me too. I liked it. It was strange, yes, but had an artistic feel to it.

Since when Macross became "artsy fartsy" ?

I'm sure its just bad animation. There's no reason at all for it to be stylised. Apart from ep 10, there's the infamous panty chasing episode too.

I hope for a continuation.

maybe a few months or years from the last ep. And Alto is now in a relation with some other guy/girl just to piss off the fans and end the 'shipping wars. that would be so funny...

He'll be with Bobby!

I can dig that. Successfull Troll is successfull, or something.

Interesting and informative, but I think you missed my point. I'm not talking at all about the show or Kawamori's techniques. I'm simply lamenting the fact that this forum, which usually rises above stupidity like 4chan-isms, has completely been overrun by "Kawamori trolling" at every corner. No matter what people's opinions of the show are, I wish they could discuss them in a way that doesn't just spout out tired and annoying internet memes like "Kawamori trolling."

Well he WAS trolling....and Code Geass IS a trainwreck....a pretty one sure but still a trainwreck. A meme's longevity is supported by the accuracy of what its describing after all.

Yeah, I 'd expect much better from the forum who invented the "Holy Floating head" & "Kawamori smoking a bong" isms....

i'm lol-ing. That made my day.

Quick sidenote, even the rt.comers are at a full state of praise for this series, and sobbing over what they were given for their sequal.

I don't go there but I wonder what kinda discussions do they have comparing Frontier to .....*cringe*..... Shadow Chronicles.

Because someone (Grace) was emitting a D-pulse burst. It wasn't the Global. At the start of the episode, the Zentradi ship also goes blank when hit by the same D-pulse burst.

Ah ok thanks. It was because of this D-pulse thing that they lost communications with Frontier as well and was unaware of the DE until Alto and Michel returned with the whole vajra fleet.

Does it really matter how exactly? Led them with foldwaves perhaps? What good does knowing that do? Knowing is better than not knowing, admittedly, but I think you're again making something into a much bigger deal than it really is.

Ermmm...yes? Or is the idea of "plot hole" hard for some ppl here to comprehend? The discussion is healthy since we're trying to see if certain parts of the show were explained or not.

(though i'm not speaking for this case since there were communications between Galia 4 and Frontier up to a certain point and that's how the Vajra knew where the Frontier was)

But how? There seems to be a big chunk of information missing here.

Probably when grace uploaded herself back to Frontier....they used that as the direction hostilities are coming from. Grace did say let the fold communications guide them back to Frontier.

Speaking of Gallia 4, was it ever explained why Alto's plane malfunctioned near the Global?

Now after watching the subs, it was more or less an Enderverse explanation for the Vajra. Great job. Only difference now is that its confirmed that the vajra are a collective hive mind, not 1 intelligent queen that contols all vajra.

The Vajra do not understand individualism and thus do not understand the need for communications as well as death can be bad for individuals. Imagine trying to have a conversation with the hairs on another person's head....the vajra probably thought this way when trying to "talk" to humans.

But the vajra DO have feelings despite their alien mindset and wish not to harm the humans once they understood them.

Alto throws off his gunpod (sniper or normal...can't tell) before firing off all his missiles with hands empty. He transforms into fighter mode, and goes face to face with Grace, the sniper gun reappears in his hand.

As for the Konig Monster...hard to say .....the machine guns being fired from the arms in battroid mode are on the opposite side from the missile launchers in destroid mode, so even if damaged i suppose it can still fire the machine guns.

Luca's slave ships were "inhibited" before.... (Luca states something about the yokes being gone now...)

If you might have noticed, his Ghosts are named after the 12 apostles and Judah(also known as Judas...i checked wiki ) is one of them. You probably can try to fan-wank a theory on how "the traitor" relates to the Ghosts....but the system means the Ghosts were allowed self-autonomy without commands from Luca so they are similar to the X-9 in Macross Plus. So i guess its assumed the very short clip of them going off on their own was to counter the V-9s.

I feel pretty certain after watching the sub that Grace's other collaborators were likely completely obliterated. The mystery of what Galaxy was though still intrigues me. There were obviously human-types around, so did they get blown up with the rest of Galaxy?

That was implied.....assuming they still needed a physical body and have not ascended omni-presence through the fold network.

Does it really matter to Kawamori who Alto chooses? Probably not. I think the key statement made in this episode and the previous one is that humans can't walk alone, no matter who or what they choose.

Well said. And after all Alto says they are both his wings.

The only nagging fear I have is "What happened to Kanaria?" I didn't see her in the final pan/shot of the crew from the Quarter. I hope this gets addressed in the movie release. (I'd like to see an OVA kind of like the Gundam Wing treatment where we got more ending scenes to bring closure to more characters.)

Hey she's there right next to Wilder. Breathe easy now, soldier.

Died in episode 14. But, although not shown, I think each Vajra battleship could have some type of queen inside.

Commander/queen yeah. The fold network after all is in a hierachical structure, with the "super queen" being at the top of it. The rest of the queens are sub-nodes and by killing one off, the connection to the smaller vajra is lost temporarily thus the confusion in the ranks until the root node takes control again either directly or through another sub-node.

Because at the time Ranka was still in Frontier. I told you, develoments happen.

FV

So if Ranka was still on Frontier, her original plan will be to use Ranka and Leon on Battle Frontier instead of using Battle Galaxy? That's probably true. She probably did not anticipate Brera throwing out his tracer (whatever that is) and running off with Ranka and neither did she anticipate Sheryl's recovery and ability for fold waves.

Ah yes, but that doesn't explain how she turned the Vajra against the humans. In one flashback, Brera seems to imply that Ranka caused the attack.

Are you talking about Gallia 4 , Ep 25 or generally since the beginning of Macross Frontier?

Cuz if you're talking about Gallia 4, the vajra knew her actions (which i assume is the experimenting and parsing) were hostile and thus retaliated. Grace didn't control the vajra. She was preempted by them.

Ep 25, as Final Vegeta said, she was able to interpret the Vajra fold network and by use of the queen control them.

If generally, Grace manipulated them to attack Frontier through some unexplained means. Probably Like putting up vajra nests in Frontier's routes or something. Sorta like dropping proximity mines in space.

About Cinderella's Horn, it looks like it's what Sheryl was doing. We saw in a previous episode a technician preparing the bridge for that, the same bridge where Sheryl performed.

But Grace was setting it up with the tech. Was expecting some sabotage to happen like the anti-grav failing and Sheryl going splat after she says "Watashi No Uta Kikke".

So erm...why did Grace set it up...i thought it was a build up to something sinister but meh...never happened.

Someone recorded the transformation process.

Thanks! But crap i think one of the decals got stuck to his left thumb while he was transforming it!

Or is it paint?

If its a retelling, it will go down the route of DYRL?. Snip off all development for all characters and rely on tv series for their background development. Use them as plot devices that die for dramatic effect. By the time the movie starts, Frontier fleet is already a veteran against the Vajra attacks when they discover that their reaction missiles have little effect. Gallia 4 will be on it. Hydra arc won't be. Michel and Klan are cameos and might die. Epic final battle with more mecha pr0n.

I agree with you, the triangle doesn't bother me either. Kinda figured no one would end up together. I don't think anyone has ended up together in a Macross story since the original. Well, ok, Shin and Sara in Zero.

Since i'm too used to harem anime (urgh...i shouldn't be) i don't really mind the triangle unresolved too. But I am more annoyed by the shipper wars especially the sheryl ones who insist alto has made his choice Sheryl....when its obvious he hasn't.