Valkyrie Driver

This is truly exciting news for me. Given some of the more recent Bandai toys, I'm starting to like them. My v1 DX VF-25, and VF-19 Hi metal were a tad disapointing. Good to see that they're getting their crap together. I still want a 1/60 Yamato YF-19, because I love it, and it's available right now. I'll wait on it for now. The yammies seem to have stood the test of time, fairly well, so I'll stick to that. But this is definitely something I'll consider adding to my collection.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=36541. It's a good read.

Thanks

I know the licence is a mess, so it makes seeing this come to fruition nearly impossible. But what exactly is it about the Macross licence that makes it impossible? there's some kind of crap with Harmony gold, but I don't know the whole story. You don't have to try to explain it if y'all don't want to, just pointing me in the right direction would be fine.

But seriously, this would be fricking amazing. If we can see this in my lifetime, things would be great. When I have kids they'll get introduced to Macross, because I have SDFM and M+ on DVD, and all the other series on a HDD, and a bunch of the toys...

Thanks, I saw the Scorched Earth review. He mentioned some issues with one of the wing hinges being wonky and not cooperating. I just wondered if that was an issue with the CF version or not. I haven't purchased yet, I just wanted to make an informed buying decision. Seems like I'm going to be fine.

I've tracked down the VF-171EX Alto, a YF-19, and I've decided to go ahead and round out my collection with an SV-51. I know the SV-51 isn't as great as some of the newer toys, but I wanted to round out my M0 mini-collection (I have a VF-0A). Does the CF SV-51 have any problems I should be aware of?

Also, I'm not real impressed by the VF-25, there's too much fighter mode junk hanging off of it. I just like the cleaner looks of the VF-0/1/11/17/19/171. Though the 19 does have some fighter mode leftovers hanging out on the hips, I can deal with that, as it the Battroid mode still looks sleeker, more like a ombat machine, and less like a transformer. That's what drew me to the Macross toy line, was that the Battroids looked like mechs, and the fighters looked like fighters.

Thanks guys, I saw that issue with the CF, and decided to look elsewhere for some VF-17/171 goodness, I think I've found it and I'm happy with the price point, it's about what I expected to see, so provided there are no shipping issues I'll have my valks mid next month.

So, with my tax return this year, I plan on purchasing a couple Macross toys. I've found a yamato yf-19 that I want to purchase, and it's one that i have wanted for a good long while. The other is a VF171, but I don't know if I want that or a VF-17.

I recently heard that Yamato went out of business, and is now arcadia. All the Arcadia toys I've seen are way more than the Yamato toys that I'm used to. I've been away for a while, so I'm not up on the new players.

How is the Chogokin DX line? I have a pre-chogokin VF-25, and it's kinda floppy and not fun, so how does the chogokin line compare?

Would I be happier with the older yamato vf-17 over the chogokin vf-171? Would I be happier with the Arcadia YF-19 or the Older Yamato?

Help!?

I meant to refer my comment on drones specifically to the VF-11 drones. Drone converted fighters are rather rare these days too. We also have purpose built target drones as well.

I see your point about the lack of interior space for the VF-11 being smaller. I'm not a big fan of aircraft that have all of their weapons strictly internal. It's weapon limiting. If you need to go slick and stealthy you can, but after the first day, you need more stores than the internal bays allow. So I imagine a retrofit with internal bays on the vf-11 would be much like the F-15SE. Engine technology is always improving, so I suppose they might be able to increase the engines output without increasing the size. It might not be a full upgrade, but it would be closer to AVF specs.

That's an interesting perspective. Though, I suspect the target drones are much the same as they are in present day, old models that get a remote pilot system. I would suspect that the VF-11 drones we saw are (supposed to be) VF-11A/B's. I like the VF-11, and given it's role and size are comparable to the classic VF-1 makes it the successor to the original Valkyrie. I could imagine that even in 2050-2060 timeframe, the VF-11 might still be in production in some fleets. The VF-11 seems like the most worthwhile candidate to be brought up to AVF specs. .

It's kinda cool I guess that things are so decentralized in Macross, with each colony fleet having its own culture. Not much heed gets paid to the economics of said future, I guess I have a hard time figuring out how a decentralized economy would work. Each Colony would have it's own local economy, as well as ties to the larger economy as well, and how that affects the military budget for each fleet. I gotta wonder what the less wealthy colony fleets look like. All we ever see is the New Macross type ships, are they all similarly equipped starting out, or do they start differently? I would assume that there are short range and medium range colony missions in addition to the long range ones too right? A fleet has to have a general idea of where they're going right?

So the Aerospace National Guard of Space Georgia might still be using VF-1's?

That sounds like the master-slave control architecture from FMP!. With some minor differences, but overall the same type of arrangement. I always though it would be better for a VF to operate that way in battroid mode. In which case elite units might be like rated ALOs (Air Liason Officers).

Makes sense. I'm finding new stuff every day. I really liked the VF-19, I just wish the only toy I had of it wasn't the VF Hi-metal. When I get my tax return back, I think I'm going to finally break down and get the Yamato 1/60 YF-19, that I have been wanting for the past 3 years, just so I have a good one. After that I just want n SV-51, and My collection will be well rounded.

But that aside. I didn't realize that the Inertia Store Converter was something in universe already. So I'm gonna keep making an arse of myself with questions. Is the EX-gear something that would be incorporated into an AVF design, bringing it up to 2059 spec? if so, what exactly does the EX-gear do? Is it akin to the Master-Slave operating architecture of an Armslave (from Full Metal Panic!)? Or is it something else entirely? I always sort of wondered about that. The Armslave, and EX gear were drastically different concepts of what a Mecha was to me, having come from Battletech to Gundam, and to Macross.

Gotta admit, the only VF-1R I was familiar with was the one that showed up in the Robotech: Battlecry video game.

I have seen pictures on the internets, and entries on Sketchley's stats, that show SMS VF-19's. Where and when did those show up? I see some specialized variants but have no idea what they're for, or where they came from.

It was my impression that the VF-19 was too expensive to produce (hence going with the VF-171 in frontier), and so it was not done in large numbers (*cough* F-22 *cough* F35 *cough cough*). So where did these come from? Are they dumbed down? The VF-25 surpasses the VF-19 in performance, and I get the feeling that piloting a VF-19 pushes the limits of human ability, hence why the VF-25 has some sort of inertial damper.

That's got to be the one thing I don't like about the VF-25, is the Inertial damper system, that feels a little too far from the original concept, not to mention that variable fighters were always supposed to be based on science we actually understood (If a bit impractical).

I just replaced the arms of my VF0 with your replacement parts. Aside from the color being off, and some looseness in the bicep swivel, I have no complaints. Now if only the clamp that holds the leg bar could be replaced, my VF-0 would be full functional again. I can't get my zero to hold the gun pod extended, but then only my VF-1, VF-25, and VF-19(hi metal) will do that.

So far I'm satisfied. Good work.

So any updated design would be relegated to secondline use? In that case, assuming that the VF-1 and VF-0 were updated, and put into circulation by a colony force, what roles would you see the colony using them in? Why?

I'd probably say the VF-1 would occupy a role similar to the F-16, light(er)weight multi-role fighter, while the VF-0 would function as the F-15C/D/E. Air superiority and strike fighter.

If you constructed a VF-1 out of modern materials (c. 2040), and used contemporary construction techniques, would there be a weight savings? Same question applies to the VF-0. If so, what role would you see those fighters occupying? Or Would you re purpose the designs and improve the thrust to weight ratio, while essentially making either one a heavy battroid?

I realize this has been done a million times on the internet, and probably a thousand times on this forum. So If there is a current thread for this stop me and point me there.

Here goes...

So I'm a fan of both shows. And unlike the millions of times we've seen this, I'm not asking for a straight up who would win, that requires too many variables so I'll set some parameters first. Assume you're in the role of a Military Intelligence analyst, and you're putting together a comparative equipment profile, for a commander (This community is a rather technically minded one, so I know y'all can think this way).

1. The pilots of each machine are of similar skill and experience, and we'll assume both are not exceptional cases (i.e. not genius aces with preternatural ability). Lets assume that the pilots are professional soldiers with appropriate training and around 23-26 years of age (Angsty teens don't pilot jet fighters, not even in Japan. That's a professional soldier's job). So again we'll assume some realistic standards apply.

2. We'll assume a neutral universe. No Minovsky particle jamming, no elevated background radiation from antimatter warheads. Assume an earth class planet, with earth standard gravity, and nothing exceptional throwing off its gravity, or any debris fields orbiting the world. Just an earth class planetary system (1 planet, earth standard gravity, makeup, and atmospheric conditions, and 1 natural satellite).

3. Take all conditions into account, you have more in play than just space. Take it to atmo, and to the ground. Assume we're fighting on earth, take topography into account. Assume the landscape is contemporary, that is 21st century. Assume cities are devoid of inhabitants, to allow you to explore full damage potentials for weapons, and so you don't place any artificial constraints on efficacy (worrying about collateral damage).

4. I want technical analysis. Compare the hardware, we don't need full technical specifications. Just your analysis of those specs, to support your position. All Gundam designs must be Production designs from the Universal Century (No Gundam Wing "hero mechs", or G Gundam "Ultimate Fighter Mechs"). All Macross designs must be Production designs from the main continuity (e.g. Macross II doesn't count). No "Hero Customs" will be considered. Keep it to production types only. Limited production does count, as in the RX-79[G], and VF-19/22/25.

Now that's out of the way. Everybody ready?

Go.

I always had a problem imagining how special operations would use a variable fighter. Fighter pilots are a special breed, and it's hard to determine elite status among an already selective community. The closest real world model I can find would be the Air Commandos of the USAF 6th Special Operations Squadron. But their job is to teach foreign nations how to train and maintain an air force (Post US invasion Iraq and Afghanistan). That hardly fits in with an overt offensive group like fighter pilots. Maybe the Wild Weasels would also be a good example, taking on dangerous missions with specially equipped aircraft.

As such, would an AVF be used for such a role? I was under the Impression that the AVF was supposed to be a replacement for the mainline fighter. For Special operations (still don't know how you do covert with a transforming jet fighter) or special missions it would make sense that such a group of pilots would have any number of craft available for use to fit the mission. If a VF-1A would be the best fit for the mission parameters, then they'd use a VF-1A.

For an AVF upgrade, what sort of improvements/enhancements would you expect to see, in updating an older design? Would a VF-11 get smaller engines with equal output to make room for weapons bays? Would a VF-1 get a Pin Point Barrier System? Would there be slight adjustments to control surface geometry to account for added low-observable capability, what kind, if any, signature reduction would be added? Would an improved gun pod be in order?

Would a VF-11 upgrade (We'll call it a VF-11E Super Thunderbolt) have a VF-19 gun pod, and internal weapons bays? Would it have the PPBS? Active Stealth System?

What role would a VF-0A upgrade (VF-0E?) occupy? Would it be an air superiority fighter, or would it be an anti-ship attack craft?

What is the role of a Heavy battroid? Is it a ground combat vehicle (Battlemech or RX-79[G]Gundam)? Or is it purely a space combat role? Macross doesn't really focus on anything other than air/space combat, and doesn't really show us what the rest of warfare has become since the introduction of the Variable fighter/Destroid (I realize that in universe the destroid is all but extinct as a combat unit by 2050).

What do y'all think?

Wow, this on the Heels of hearing about a Ghost in the Shell Live action Movie. I'm Not sure how I feel about this, I didn't care for robotech since I saw macross first. Also, I skipped over RT, once I figured out where the BattleTech Unseen had originally come from, I went straight to the source. Still, could be fun to see some transforming fighter jets, minus tv trope personalities, kick alien butt. I'll reserve judgement, but I don't have high expectations.

Delta wings are also great for Atmospheric flight, lots of wing area, making it very efficient in flight, as well as incredible maneuverability.

Does a normal combat styled version of the VF-11MAXL (like the VF-19E is to the Fire Valkyrie) count as a Thunderbolt upgrade? I like delta wings in general, it reminds me of the F-16XL.

Yeah, it would count, as long as it retains more of the typical VF-11 aesthetics (i.e. no boobs or mylene style head).

I agree that the VF-11 Thunderbolt would be the most logical and likely choice for such a program, and indeed I'd love to see it. I'd like to see the F-16 re-manufactured with stealth materials in the leading edges and stealth geometry in the control surfaces, and using an enclosed weapons pod (ala F18E/F Advanced Super Hornet) to take the place of the F-35. But it's not going to happen (Hopefully we procure a low cost fighter to replace the F-16, F-20 tigershark might be back on the table).

If I were making the decision, I'd choose to revive the VF-0. Here's why, conventional layout, uses a lifting body design, It's big, plenty of room to pack in all the new AVF systems, It already incorporates some of the Passive stealth geometry, as well as being a combat proven design. Since the R&D work had been done, it cuts costs, and allows the UN Spacy to field a low cost, high performance fighter. (I also like the VF-0 because it resembles my favorite Battlemech, the Stinger, and it's the only toy I have that does so, my VF-1's are S models). The Dimensions of the VF-0 are not too dissimilar from the YF-19, which is the gold standard in AVF design.

Basically, I'm wanting to see what VF's folks want to see reimagined as AVF entries, for the purposes of this exercise, we'll assume the Year is 2038, 2 years before the Project Supernova Trials, Which eliminates some of the later entries (Y/VF-19, YF-21/VF-22, VF-25, VF-29 are already past that spec, and the VF-17 doesn't qualify since it's a special operations mech).

And give some in universe reasoning as to why you'd choose that design.

SU-37 seems to have inspired some of the VF-11.

As well the YF-23 may have provided some too

I was vaguely aware of the existence of Macross the ride. I've been away for a while, focusing on other hobbies and important things. Still catching up.