VF-25S Full Armour

Speaking of aero, for maximum maneuverability, the VF-1's design is in fact very ideal. It has all the control surfaces it'll ever need: 2 big variable swept wings and 2 big tailplanes.

The key factor to its extreme maneuverability is its vectored thrust, which makes tailplanes absolutely unnecessary. I just checked my VF-1S 1/48 scale model and frankly, wing area isn't lacking.

Yes, I am very aware of the weight penalty argument of variable swept wings and it has been abused to death for the F-14. Yes, the F-111 (the POS the F-14 replaced) had the whole swing wing mechanism built out of STEEL, a material of significantly inferior strength to weight ratio the titanium used in the F-14. For reference, the F-14, Su-35 and F-15E are of similar size, and their empty masses aren't THAT different:

F-14: 19.838 metric tons

Su-35: 17.5 metric tons

F-15E: 14.3 metric tons

Their maximum takeoff weights are all impressive:

F-14: 33.732 metric tons

Su-35: 34.5 metric tons

F-15E: 36.7 metric tons

Imagine a new plane based of the basic design of the F-14D but with the F-22's engines and canards (yes, canards were actually considered when Grumman was trying was trying to sell the new generation of F-14s). And last time I checked, the F-14 did NOT have the benefit of modern composites with insane S/W ratio that planes such as the F-22 uses extensively. The sad thing is that despite of the huge untapped potential of the F-14 performance wise, it is now forever gone.

Yes, I am aware of the modern obsession with passive stealth. But if meta-materials that allow refractive indexes to go negative at radar EM bands or even the visible band, all current stealth technology will be instantly rendered obsolete. And no, there is no way you're going to detect an airplane that bends radar around itself with conventional radar.

IIRC, I've found people who have proved via wing tunnel and and simulation that if the VF-1 would work brilliantly as an airplane if it was real and followed its designated parameters (thrust, thrust vectoring range, mass, etc.). Unfortunately, I forgot to bookmark and download a copy of the sites.

The VF-1 certainly does NOT violate the laws of physics. The real reason they aren't real yet is because modern technology is still quite there yet.

I think someone here (or at another message board) mentioned how Grace appears to be a flip side to the Vajra. Whereas the Vajra are basically a bio-mechanical singular consciousness, Grace appears to be (or wants to be) the cybernetic equivalent.

That explains the whole argument Grace had with Ranshe about sacrificing Vajra test subjects and 0 fold time network theory. Imagine Grace plugged in GITS style with the whole Vajra army at her will through Ranka as the interface.

Grace: "Power, UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!!!"

Grace just had another big O...

Speaking of g value, if frontier's g is really that low (0.7 i.e. approx. 2/3 of earth), wouldn't that have various effects on human physiology, both desirable and otherwise?

This reminds me of bone density issues from extended microgravity exposure. If the standard g level is really that small, shouldn't they be suffering side effects such as lowered bone density, muscle strength, etc. compared to their earth brethren? Not to mention how this would affect the height of someone who grew up in such a lowered g environment.

That's probably the reason. BTW are you a doc? That's why you know about this stuff?

Actually, she's a health scientist. IIRC an Epidemiologist aka infectious disease specialist.

I find it really hard to believe that the glass was the president of ALL of the NUN government. their has to be higher up's that the Frontier reports to back to on an actual planet, (I mean who in their right mind would put the leadership of earth and all it's colonies on a fleet that's half way across the galaxy.)

Well, if earth was under the level of bombardment it experienced in SW1...

But my point is, Frontier's current situation might have been unthinkable not so long ago. At the time, putting the head of NUNS there might not seem like such a bad idea, seeing that (if I'm not mistaken) Frontier is (soon to be was if Hitler wannabe Leon screws it the same way the real Hitler screwed Germany to Hell's basement back in WW2) one of his pet projects.

Speaking of paper planes, both can easily be made to fly much straighter translational vectors by simply folding the ends of their wings in opposing directions i.e. inducing roll. Same stabilizing effect as rifling used for firearms.

I think animesuki is your best bet for those kinds of pics.

More can be found here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php...702&page=27

There's actually a bit of a difference.

Blue higlight on the right side of the paper plane is visible on this one:

http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/...0Large%2035.jpg

While the blue highlight in the right side of the paper plane in this one disappears:

http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/Macross/...0Large%2039.jpg

Agreed, there is a slight but not too terribly significant difference. The blue on the right side of the plane on the 2nd pic could easily be blocked in the 1st by occlusion.

On the left side, there is a slight though not too noticeable difference in the blue highlights if one uses the text on it as a reference, and frankly isn't really worth fussing about.

If we want to be really meticulous, we could also note that even the text between the 2 of them has slight differences too.

But seriously, there's not much point squabbling over these insignificant imperfections in animation though.

BTW, Sheryl is so irresistibly cute in this episode. She almost made me forget my default objectives:

1. Terminate John Connor.

2. Terminate all humans.

Grace O Connor vs. Sheryl Nome. 2 contrasting yet equally irresistible choice. Thinking of which, I think I should upload myself into a mimetic polyalloy chassis just in case I choose Grace. Seems I'm a much of a sucker for love triangles as SK himself.

This should go in the Animation Bugs page. These two paper planes are different in design

Checked the pics myself. I do not see any bugs. Same plane, down to the blue highlighted text.

What gives?

...

So. I'm thnking Grace could have gotten those eggs from the ship in Episode 10.

Grace forgot? The most perfect human minded android in the Macross Universe, actually FORGETS something as important as a nest full of Vajra eggs? Blasphemy!

More likely than not, the all out attack since episode 21 was actually planned, though it happened just a bit earlier than Grace and Co anticipated.

Things are going according to plan now as long as Grace is concerned right now. Grace was practically orgasmic when she observed Ranka linking into the Vajra fold network.

regarding the V-type infection, does it mean that Ranka is special because she was conceived by Ranshe who's infected with V-type virus? i.e. if someone is infected and is pregnant, the baby will still get the "bacteria" or virus but yet will not die from it?

if thats the case, Sheryl is now in similar situation as Ranshe, and if Alto had made her pregnant, the baby could become a 2nd Ranka aka Little Queen v2.

If V2.0 ends up with Sheryl's looks, she'll be the physically superior specimen, but please, don't end up with HIS thermonuclear bombproof skull...

Hope V2.0 doesn't end up inferior overall to the original...

You don't have to feed, care for or spend time with an android, you just turn her off. The problem is how perfectly is her body recreated, don't want a terminator skeleton to be under there.

Seriously, if she looks THIS HOT:

and possesses THIS much grace:

Would you REALLY care? The terminator endoskeleton is a HUGE bonus.

No need to worry about irreparably damaged or dead girlfriends ever again.

But Dude, she's got Leon cooties. Ewwwww...

Based on what I've seen so far, it's crystal clear that her only true MAN was, is and always will be Ozma. That little fling with Leon and the supposed wedding was all just an extremely well executed ruse to get in on his true agenda and the truth of all the backdoor conspiracies that might have been going on even before Episode 1. Of course, they had a little talk about the inadequacies they perceived in each other, but that's normal among lovers and in fact shows the level of intimate trust that allows them to be bluntly honest with each others thoughts and feelings.

Note that it was mentioned that the late Howard Glass never knew of her affair with his then aide Mr. Leon Mishima. Normally, in a loving and reasonably functional family family such as Cathy's, one's parents would be one of if not the first people to know about your impending wedding.

Cathy was willing to use her womanly charms for a good cause, not just for selfish gain like so many gold-diggers I see in real life. For that she earns my eternal respect. Not to mention she's highly intelligent, well educated, and extremely capable in her chosen job.

Unfortunately, to gain intimate trust of Leon, sacrifices had to be made. Thankfully, the spy mission itself was a success.

maybe ozma knows about luca being a worm that is supporting leon. luca did fire first.

Given how much Ozma and Cathy dug up about the whole Leon/Grace&Co conspiracy, that's actually quite likely.

That's what I think, too, but it bothers me that he tried to shoot down his former comrades nonetheless. It doesn't make sense. Or maybe he's just a moron.

Technically, Alto IS a blockheaded moron who can't figure out that a super cute girl and a super sexy idol (whose loss of underwear alone could send almost all the male students of a school into a crazed frenzy), both with REAL talent to boot, are head over heals over him despite of his obvious and painful character flaws. As far as I'm concerned, both Ranka and Sheryl deserve a better.

Ozma and Cathy are the best couple in Macross to date. Real MAN + Real WOMAN.

But seriously, Alto was obviously enraged by the fact that one of Ozma's missiles almost waxed Luca, and he simply couldn't get why at the moment.

and for grace's fondling of her self. i'm guessing the prospect that the discovery of the vajra home world and their plan might finally be completed sexually excits a power hungery person as her self.

Frankly, POWER is the greatest aphrodisiac of all.

Grace. She's HOT!!!

Anyway, now that's out of my system, I shall now concentrate on trying to figure out how she terminated those government goons.

I distinctly remember the sight of guns blazing in their respective hands followed by pieces of Grace's clothing all over the air. I think now that Grace's construction is actually rather modular, though not possibly not quite up to the nanotechnological molecular level control of the T-1000, but still to a very significant degree. As if taking a few hits from anti personal hand held weapons are going to cause irreparable damage to a Terminatrix that could reshape herself at will.

Taking them out alone is well within her capabilities and if Brera, who is a much less advanced than the full android Grace 2.0, is used as a reference. I would imagine that she simply jumped up after taking the first barrage of fire just to intimidate the crap out of them (imagine the Model 101 T-800 getting up after taking multiple shotgun blasts to its body from just a few meters away, with Sarah Connor in complete disbelief), as it'll do her no real damage anyway. This followed by a leap up and out of the opening, using her shapeshifting capability to crush and take the guns off the guys up there, followed by the guys down there eating lead.

So, wait, how are you disagreeing with me? I said it was a mix, but I never said there was anything wrong with it.

I particularly side with the line about good deeds going forgotten. A classic saying, "Whenever I'm right, no one remembers. Whenever I'm wrong, no one forgets." The bad is always more pointed, always sharper in the mind than the good, as it's often the lesser, so iut sticks out more. Not that that particularly applies here. Most just make their minds up about a character and stick to it through thick and thin. Ranka could literally morph into Sheryl, and the people who hate her still will.

I'm also on neither side, though I have admitted that Ranka is much better written. I still like Sheryl though, for the most part.

My only disagreement with you was a relatively subtle one. Sure, she can be self centered and downright childish, especially earlier in the series, though in my opinion I think you overexaggerated those traits just a tiny bit. Nothing of significant concern to our discussion.

She has currently grown so much she's definitely shed her teenage immaturity for good. And the tears we saw on this episode were from great depths of her heart, not some temper tantrum.

For those who think Ranka is selfish little brat, remember this:

She sang to gather the Vajra at island 3, despite of the fact that she was in pain and that the death of more Vajra would only increase her suffering. Why would she push through such a tremendous pain barrier if she had no love for Frontier?

One more thing:

I'm glad that DE mechanics have been revealed alas. Turns out that I was on the right track after all, and when one joins 2 black holes together, one gets a wormhole that channels matter and energy from one end to another. Instead of creating as suitably sized tunnel and transporting large and intact objects, simply let the 3D portal grow gradually as it transports an object to some other area in space in fragments.

Except that both characters share those three qualities, hence there's no contrast in that way. The key contrast is their positions and outward projections, not necessarily their inner qualities. They're more alike than most would admit, if you read into them, particularly Sheryl, writing permitting. Still, I agree about all the hate Ranka's getting. Personally I think her actions are a mix of selfishness and a nagging thought that this is the right thing to do. She knows she has a connection, she knows through Ai-kun that the Vajra aren't all they're made out to be, and she knows she's just being used. I'm sure she also thinks getting another Vajra off Frontier is a good thing for Frontier, and she might have even come to assume that she's attracting them given the affect of her song. It's clear she's thinking of finding the best way for both species. To suggest that she's sided with the Vajra and forsaken Frontier is f-ing ridiculous, and short changes her quite a bit. Frontier is all gung-ho on extermination now, when it's becoming apparent to her that things aren't so black and white. If you can't change from within, try from without. I also think Brera could be acting independently. Her development is actually been quite astounding and much clearer then even Sheryl's (whose had some good and bad moments like Ranka as well) , yet it sounds like she's being condemned for it (I say sounds as I think I don't want to read this whole thread going by some of these comments). Looks like she's damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. Macross Fanboy, wow, way to take things purely at face value, if even that, but to each their own I guess.

Well said, and thanks for saying many of the things I wanted to say all this time, though frankly, there are some points where I must disagree.

It's amazing how ungrateful humans can be, and Macross Frontier managed to portray this so way both in terms of drama and realism. I can personally vouch for my last sentence based on my own life experiences. People tend to forget your good deeds quickly and remember all perceived wrongdoings well. Ranka's singing has given the edge to Frontier's forces numerous times, and in episode 20 we see how quickly hearts turn when people perceive the situation as Ranka failing them, even when it simply wasn't true as proven by her unintentionally provoking the Vajra into greater violence via her own pain.

If it wasn't for Grace's DE, Ranka would have saved so many more lives and hearts from unnecessary death and suffering.

Ranka has definitely figured out that she's practically a homing beacon for the Vajra at the moment and like it or not, her "selfish" reasons for leaving are in the end of the day selfless in nature, since the only way for her to solve both her and Frontier's problem was to stop homing the Vajra to Frontier and resolve her own personal turmoil (recovery of painful pass memories, etc.). What's so wrong with this?

As a very old and wise green fellow once said:

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, Anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering."

Macross is in it's own way a battle between the light and dark side.

I sense much fear in you, Ranka haters.

PS: I am on neither Ranka or Sheryl's side, but I simply find it impossible to hate Ranka and her pet when they both have one thing in common: no intentional harm was done to anyone.

Just to clarify things, I am not blaming any of the characters, and as I said, they simply did what they believed what had to be done.

Someone here was wondering here what racism has to do with hatred of the Vajra. And some here will also wonder about my comment about evil's triumph when hate dominates.

Firstly, racism and specism are at their core the same thing. It's like when a tiger kills someone you care a lot about. The logical, mature and ultimately most honorable thing to do is to kill the man eater and make sure no one else suffers the same fate, driven not by revenge, but justice and genuine concern for your other loved ones and other fellow humans. But to hate the entire species and try to wipe them out, well, that's when the specism barrier is crossed.

From all this war, chaos and hatred against the Vajra (totally justified, but ultimately the result of unscrupulous manipulation), who benefited the most? Leon, the maniacal dictator with the horrific haircut. It was the perfect opportunity to grab what he has always wanted: Power, Unlimited POWER!!! MUAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

From the amoral Grace's (technically it's Grace&Co Inc.) point of view, its just business as usual, with the current Vajra mass attack an unplanned for but still manageable setback. The phrase "corporate insanity" springs to mind.

I am not in any way blaming Alto for what he did, as he simply could not have reasonably known better. Ranka did nothing wrong, she simply tried what she could to explain things to Alto in the limited time she had, with Brera's help if things get out of control i.e. Alto trying to pump lead into Ai-Kun even when the creature did nothing wrong. The whole scene was actually very well done and very realistic, which I really liked, thus another reason why I voted positively.

edit: Missing point

Sometimes, I can only wonder why people overblow and complicate something that is rather simple but no less profound in nature. Sheryl Nome did what she had to do, what she could have done, to help Frontier in its dire hour. Ranka did what she had to do too to hopefully spare frontier from another massacre.

It doesn't take a genius or even much knowledge of the Japanese language to figure out that no matter what many reasons she has, selfish or otherwise, she did what was necessary.

The one thing about Macross that I will always cherish is the message that hatred and mutual annihilation never solves anything in the long run.

Back in WW2, millions of people of a myriad of races were massacred by the Nazis, which is at its core no different from what we saw on these 2 episodes Should we start hating an entire race and nation of people because of that even to this day? I'm not trying to bring in real world politics and all its associated insanity here, but I hope this helps to bring some war and hate mongering folks here to their senses.

A great example is the 513 (May 13th) incident in Malaysia in 1969. Things got so bad that the 2 major races were literally at each others throats i.e. physically killing each other. According to recently declassified official documents, the whole racist insanity was incited by a small, elite group of extremely rich and influential group of the race which I will not disclose for very PERSONAL gains, at the cost of both races. Whenever hatred clouds us, the Evil shall rein. That is a simple and indisputable fact of life in my experience.

There it is, the solution to garbage problem

In reality, well controlled artificial black holes have actually been suggested as the ultimate solution to hopeless waste disposal problems.

Hello folks, after watching episode 21, I'm once again drawn to the notion of dimension eater technology and its possible physical basis.

As the dimension eater expanded, it literally ate the ship, starting from it center of activation, of course. The most interesting observation as that as enough material was removed from island 3, the whole structure collapsed (read imploded) once exceeded its structural limits. Incidentally, this works like a 3D sinkhole in space.

Just interesting observation I wish to share and hopefully spark a constructive discussion about the possible physical basis for such a device.

It has a battroid form? o_o I'm pretty sure it only has two modes, dude.

Last time I checked the latest version of Koenig Monster has THREE modes: