Tom Bateman

So, what happens now?

I imagine there will be an important meeting at Harmony Gold in the very near future.

Just as they needed permission to initiate the Kickstarter, Tommy, Steve, or Kevin didn't pull the plug on the Kickstarter on their own. They might have been prescient enough to see the futility of continuing any further, but they don't have the authority to make that call on their own. Whether it came from Team Robotech or not, the higher-ups at HG chose to end the Kickstarter immediately (this past Saturday).

This Kickstarter didn't just happen... it was the result of a lot of lobbying and advocacy on the part of Team Robotech.

Frank Agrama is many things, but he is no fool, especially when it comes to money (there's a reason he's a multimillionaire). I imagine a lot of assurances and brash confidence was used to convince Frank and others at HG that Robotech Academy Kickstarter was a can't miss opportunity, a slam dunk; ("just look at the Robotech RPG Tactics Kickstarter... they only asked for $70,000, but got $1.4 MILLION!!! We can't lose! The Robotech fanboys are going to just throw money at us! They'll say, SHUT UP AND TAKE OUR MONEY!")

This mindset explains the smug arrogance you read in Kevin's posts in the Kickstarter thread on Robotech.com and then the addition of the "Enemy Spy" level on the Kickstarter page. I think the failure of the Kickstarter must have come as a complete shock to Kevin and Tommy.

When they first started to realize that things weren't going well, there was a lot of scrambling to put the best face on things, first rolling out additional levels, and then other rewards that look like they were thought up on the fly (Robotech Academy Sweatshirts, really?) All things that were very poorly thought out, and unplanned for. Team Robotech probably assumed they would have cleared their goal in the first week, maybe two at the most. "Don't worry, Frank, just sit back and watch the money roll in..."

2,284 backers on Kickstarter is a paltry display of support. Talking about $194,574 would only matter if it was actually deposited in Harmony Gold's bank account. The end result is a project that only managed to meet 38% of its intended goal.

In comparison, Star Trek: Axanar, a fan film project, has initiated its second Kickstarter and even though it is only two weeks old, it has already surpassed Robotech Academy's grand total and nearly doubled its already met goal.

Star Trek: Axanar - 14 days (Active - 17 days left)
2,703 backers - $198,463 (Goal: $100,000)

Robotech Academy - 29 days (Canceled)
2,284 backers - $194,574 (Goal: $500,000)

I would hate to be the person whose idea this Kickstarter was...

I imagine Tommy and Kevin have prepared their list of excuses for the failure of the Kickstarter. I hope HG will see their self-serving comments for what they are.

There is no way to spin this as something good or positive. This Kickstarter has been a complete and utter catastrophe, and a humiliating embarrassment for everyone involved, including all of the actors involved, Carl Macek's memory, and even Frank Agrama himself.

The ramifications of this disaster could be very significant. The failure of this Kickstarter is not limited to just adding Robotech Academy to the already sizable junk pile of unfinished RT projects. It shows before the entire world, that Robotech, in its current state, is no longer a viable property.

Type in Robotech in Google and the fourth result is Robotech Academy. You cannot delete your failed Kickstarter, so the evidence of this failure will remain a black mark on the franchise. Any potential investor or licensee is going to see the number of backers and the amount of money pledged in this Kickstarter and will factor that into their analysis of Robotech's worth and how much they should offer to pay as a licensee.

The damage here isn't just a blow for PR and marketing, it puts Robotech's very future in serious question.

It's really sad that it's come to this. Yeah, there have been a few idiots who are ranting about Macross fans and critics ruining this campaign, but they are vastly overestimating that influence. This campaign failed because it failed to convince and inspire Robotech fans who chose to not support a project they simply did not believe in.

This show meant a lot to a lot of people, and it was the gateway into anime and Macross for many fans here on this website. Robotech deserved better, the actors deserved better, and the fans deserved better... much better.

Tommy Yune: "When we saw how well Kickstarter was doing for a lot of potential projects – fans started bugging us as well! They said, “if you throw something like this on Kickstarter, we’ll say shut up and take our money!” (laughs)"

Apparently, Robotech fans were far more discerning and cautious about what to do with their money than Tommy thought.

Tommy Yune: "This is a way for fans who are aware of who Carl Macek is, as the original producer, we can ask them, “hey, can you help make Carl Macek’s vision come true?” With their direct support, instead of designing the pilot to corporate interests, we can stay true to what all the fans want in the first place. It would be to the vision of Carl Macek, which is what we intended."

This isn't arthouse movie making. So, Tommy thinks they would make this Robotech project that was devoid of any corporate influence, but then expects a network to commit to a full series with him in charge creatively? Tommy has a lot to learn about how TV works.

I hope Kevin doesn't plan on bragging about raising nearly $200,000 because it is completely irrelevant because unless a project hits the goal it sets on Kickstarter (in this case, $500K) they don't get a dime... he might as well be talking about Monopoly money because HG gets nothing out of this whole experience...

Harmony Gold... Sunday, August 3, 2014 01:09 AM...

Kevin: "Tommy, open the f***king door!!!"

With everything that you've laid out I think this begs the question of what happens if this Kickstarter campaign totally fails? Is there a possibility that this was all an ultimatum by Frank Argama for Tommy and the others to prove whether there was still a viable interest in a new Robotech production or to produce some results (that's why they are doing this Kickstarter instead of actually investing money)?

Looking at the stats for this Sunday it looks like they aren't even going to break $2,000 for pledges today and will be lucky to get more than a dozen new backers. I honestly think that there are some shakeups coming...

What happens if the Kickstarter fails? Good question...

I think it would most depend on whose idea it was to do this Kickstarter. I can see it being an idea of doing a Kickstarter being spawned by either Kevin or Tommy. My bet is that it was Kevin, since he's been the most vocal supporter. If he was the one who convinced Frank to go with the Kickstarter, he should be would be very worried if it doesn't make its goal.

The one thing you do not do is mess with Frank's money, or make him look bad. If this Kickstarter fails, then that makes Frank and HG look bad, and it makes a serious statement to everyone in the industry that Robotech is not viable property. It would be very embarrassing, especially since they convinced Frank to appear in the video.

I'm pretty certain that they thought they would have been fully funded by now, to be less than 50% towards their goal has to be disconcerting.

One thing is for certain, they didn't pitch Frank on the Kickstarter idea with the idea that he would come in and make up the difference if they were short. I'm sure they told him that the "fanboys" would simply fork over their money and that he wouldn't have to spend a dime.

They didn't count that these Robotech "fanboys" have turned out to be a lot more selective and discerning with their money than anyone (here or at HG) has given them credit for.

I assume you didn't get in on one of those $5,000+ tiers?

I had to pass, unlike Tommy, I'm not rich; nor am I a multimillionaire, like Frank

Please start at the beginning. As former member of HG maybe you can some insight on Robotech Academy..

This Robotech Academy Kickstarter has become quite a debacle, hasn't it?

I've been gone from HG for over seven years now, so I don't have any first-hand knowledge of what is happening right now, but given my experience working with the people involved, I think I can offer a unique perspective.

I usually attend the Robotech panel at Anime Expo as an interested, albeit disillusioned fan. I'm usually not surprised by whatever news (or non-news) comes out of the panels. I find it all amusing, the same old message year after year.

However, this year, there were rumblings before the panel that something was going to go down, with that weird logo they put out the day before. I had heard rumors about a Kickstarter happening before, but I never thought they'd actually do it.

So, they now have a Kickstarter... well, that confirmed to me that Frank Agrama has chosen to not open his wallet to fund any future Robotech productions. Certainly not by himself. He hasn't done that since Shadow Chronicles, I don't really count Robotech: Love, Live, Alive because that was about as low cost a project that you can get; pocket change, really. Had RT:LLA been the blockbuster success that Kevin McKeever adamantly claims it was, wouldn't Frank simply bankroll this new project? Frank didn't make his millions by being stupid. You don't invest your money unless you expect a good return, and in this case, he clearly doesn't see it as a worthwhile investment.

I think a hard thing for Tommy, Steve, and Kevin to do is to convince fans to fund this new Robotech project when even their multimillionaire owner will not. I think that's a very hard sell.

One other thing that I noticed at the panel and through the subsequent videos is the promotion of this idea of Robotech Academy being Carl Macek's vision or dream project. I believe this is false, Carl Macek's dream was "The Sentinels", Carl was never satisfied with the video that came out, nor was he content with the novels and comics. He always felt that the story should have been properly told in an animated way. It was his grand magnum opus, he wanted to do something on the scale of DUNE. THAT was his dream, not doing some "side story" with kids. I have a hard time believing that this Robotech Academy was the project he most wanted to do.

My belief is that Robotech Academy is actually Tommy Yune's idea, first and foremost. I think Carl, who really wasn't in a position to dictate what story should be done, acquiesced to Tommy's suggestion to do things like last years RT:LLA and perhaps Robotech Academy. Both of these projects happened long after Carl's death in 2010, so how much input or involvement he had, if any, we will never know. It is now four years later, and Carl is not here to tell us, so we are left with Tommy Yune's version of events.

Of course, I was not part of whatever meetings Carl had with Harmony Gold, but my experience working with Tommy Yune makes me confident in my belief that he would NEVER surrender creative control of Robotech to anyone, certainly not Carl, who I feel he did not respect creatively. I also base this belief on having known Carl for nearly 25 years and in particular the last dinner he and I had together less than two months before he died where we had a long, lively, sometimes heated discussion about what he thought should be done with Robotech.

BTW, does anyone know what Tom Bateman has to say about all of this? According to his profile he hasn't posted on here in almost a year.

Hey Apollo Leader,

Sorry I haven't been around lately... I do lurk from time to time.

I was actually at the Robotech panel at Anime Expo (not participating in it, obviously)

I have found this entire thread to be fascinating...

Robotech Academy... hmmmmmm, where to begin?

Tom, the dub in question had an official wide release in VHS and LD in 1987. Both editions were published and distributed by Toho.

Now, about the dub made by the hong kong company. I was told by this so called Robotech fan that Greg Finley worked in the dub as Cpt Global. I contacted Mr Finley thru facebook to confirm this but his answer was that he couldnt remember. Do you happen to know if he worked on this dub?

Thanks for the info on the dub. It was only for that specific VHS and LD release. Do you have any scans of the VHS or LD covers? This release should have been limited to Japan and perhaps Hong Kong, but whatever happened beyond that was not authorized by Toho, Tatsunoko, or Big West and I doubt that any of those companies saw a dime from "Clash of the Bionoids". That was my understanding.

I haven't listened to it in years as I don't own a copy of CoB, but I am certain that Greg Finley DID NOT do any work on the DYRL dub. Nor did any other Robotech voice actor.

Please clarify. Who "made" it? What company is this you are referring to? Toho?

The company that produced the dub, it's been a while, but it was something that was done officially (the dub), but it wasn't for any official wide release, but one of the companies (in Hong Kong, I believe) was involved had some claim to it and began selling it around as "Clash of the Bionoids"; the Japanese companies did a poor job of putting a stop to it, so that's why it was around for so long.

Clash of the Bionoids was released illegally. The company that made it had no right to sell it outside of its original local release.

So...if, as a hypothetical question, I wanted to release a fansub of DYRL... I shouldn't feel too bad about it...?

No, you shouldn't. Just be sure to send me a copy of it when you finish it.

Harmony Gold's trademarks and copyrights to the name Macross would preclude any release of DYRL here without their involvement.

So unless you want to see Tommy Yune's "Worlds of Robotech - Macross: Do You Remember Love?", it's probably best left as a dead issue.

Meh... it hardly matters. The only version of the Robotech opening credits that acknowledge the real creators was the one cooked up for that 25th Anniversary party.

How it should be...

The one thing that I didn't understand is what was it that made the Earth cultists virtually psychotic in their murderous devotion.

This was never explained well as far as I know.

I think the Patriotic Knights Corps could have been portrayed much more realistically.

There has been not a single instance of anyone officially BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys.

Uh, yes, I did. Unless you don't think I was "official".

David,

We've had this conversation before... Southern Cross/Robotech Masters is the Jan Brady of Robotech. You know I love Masters and you know that I lobbied hard for Masters toys. Not with Tommy, who is useless and incompetent, but to George Sohn directly both when I was at HG and after. The truth is, the numbers to him just didn't justify the costs of developing and designing a toy. I really hate to say it, because you know I have been a strong Southern Cross supporter, but I am being honest with you.

Masters/Southern Cross would need a serious effort of support behind it, but it will never reach the popularity of Macross or Mospeada/New Generation.

Kevin is the only person who thinks his whole "Banky/BankofKev" self-given nickname is cool. He loves to talk about himself and depicts himself as the guy everyone comes to with questions. He also talks to everyone as if they were 5-years old.

His explanation for why the Light Artillery Battlepod by Toynami won't be released is because they are sitting in a container in China waiting for other stuff to fill up the container so it could then be shipped. That's why fans have to wait.

This is completely ridiculous and defies all business sense and logic.

The worldwide economic downturn that Kevin claims to be an authority on, has resulted in fewer products coming from China, but that simply means fewer ships are arriving with product.

Idle ships are NOT carrying cargo. They are sitting at anchor. The ships that are arriving from China are still full of cargo, there just aren't as many of them as there used to be.

Finished product still makes it to market, a company that produces product and lets it sit is losing money every day it sits on the dock. Maybe that's how Kevin would run a company, but I know that George Sohn does not run Toynami that way. (If the product existed, George would find a way to get it over to market.)

Even if what Kevin was saying was true about the battlepods sitting in containers, there are other ways to get that product to the United States. If they can get these Chinese comic reprints over, they can certainly get the Battlepods over... unless it's not that important to them.

To me, this is Kevin McKeever's fantasy spinmeister machine at work. His obsession with Fox News and Rupert Murdoch shows that he's well versed in making stuff up. He thinks this "creative" answer will come off as smart and knowledgeable, but it just comes of as a B.S. artist. As someone who has been through a college Global Logistics program, which focused on International Shipping, I can tell you that he does not know what he's talking about.

I wonder if they will take down the "Shipping in June 2011" notice on the pre-order page for the Light Artillery Battlepod?

To be honest, having him be picked up by a carrier along the way is one of the few parts of the movie that actually makes sense... he's not gonna get very far in a relatively slow and clunky fighter with no faster-than-light capability, unless our boy Admiral Hunter was just having a siesta just outside of lunar orbit.

Of course he would have had to link up with others to go find Admiral Hunter, but it's not something that the audience had any NEED to see.

Scott does fly off he rejoins the the Expeditionary Force near the moon. RTSC doesn't conflict with that. Scott rejoins the fleet and Ariel leaves Earth to join him.

Technically no, it doesn't conflict, but it completely negates the emotional impact of Scott saying goodbye to hsi friends and leaving Ariel at the end of "Symphony of Light"

I don't know about you, but I thought he was off to deep space to find Admiral Hunter, not just flying to the moon.

This whole thing reminds me of how the opening of ALIEN 3 completely destroyed the ending of ALIENS

That's because any profit robotech makes is automatically delegated towards the much bigger losses it has made over the years.

Yes, Shadow Chronicles was a financial success and it did very well as there was an interest in seeing ANY new Robotech after over 20 years. Just the fact that there was ANY new Robotech guaranteed a certain amount of success, no matter how good it actually was (i.e. The Phantom Menace). To keep beating your chest about that most simplistic of facts incessantly for the past four years has just gotten OLD. It's like a broken record to hear Kevin repeat this over, and over, and over, and over in front of any audience that will listen to him blather on about how healthy the Robotech franchise is, despite the tough economy. It's total bull---t.

What hasn't been mentioned by HG's marketing genius, is all the LOST revenue from any follow-ups that should have capitalized on the success of RTSC. We are talking MILLIONS of dollars that could have been made via home video, merchandising and video games.

Kevin fashions himself a master of "spin". The few people who actually attend his panels may buy it, but even the hardcore fans have mostly left Robotech for other franchises. Fond memories of a once great franchise? Yes. Hope for the future? No.

This is where Tommy, Steve and Kevin have egregiously FAILED as employees of Frank Agrama and Harmony Gold. They simply don't make HG a lot of money and they continue to fail every day. I don't even see how they justify their own paychecks, which combined are probably about $150,000 a year (just guessing). They'd better hope nobody checks.

I think about the time the robotech license degraded from cross platform console games, to cellphone games, is about when the franchise died.

No, it died pretty much when Tommy Yune was brought on board over ten years ago.

...TEN YEARS

The market has changed since then so I don't know how that would apply now, but I do remember that in the '90 (before HG came and claimed all ownership over anything Macross), several US companies including Manga Entertainment expressed interest into bringing Macross 7 there but that it didn't happened because music had to be licensed separately and cost a gazillion of bucks. I recall someone from of these company saying that to bring Macross 7, they'd need to have all US anime companies working together due to the cost.

So I don't know why Macross 7 would be different from other anime series ; perhaps there is something in the original contracts of the series - but unless the guys at Manga Entertainment&co were full of sh*t it seemed to be the case.

There is/was certainly interest in releasing Macross 7 on the part of other anime companies. Music rights and royalties are paid to the original artists/songwriters/composers through JASRAC via the company that owns the work (the licensor) and are not the responsibility of a company in America that would release the show on DVD (the licensee)

The only time something like music rights would be an issue is if it contained music from a non-JASRAC artist/songwriter/composer (as what happened with Zeta Gundam... more on that later)

I've always wondered - is it pride that's keeping the three companies from doing so? Thinking about the logic behind it:

Option A) All or any of the parties come to a compromise, they make money, just not as much as they want.

Option B) All or any of the parties hold out to get a better share, they make no money either way.

Why would you settle for option B when the end price is zero??? If you're "waiting" for a bigger payout, the product will get diluted in the market and be worth less by the time it the payout would (theoretically) happen.

As they say, it takes two to tango (or in this case, maybe three to four)

No one side is entirely at-fault and no one side is entirely blameless in this matter.

The music rights issue with Macross 7 is cost prohibitive. This is one subject that has been covered here ad nauseam over the past decade. DYRL, as we all know, is in legal limbo; no one really knows who owns what. Plus and II are essentially being kept down by the company that holds the rights to it. It's a small crime that a high quality release of Plus has yet to happen. Frontier, I would think, should not be much of an issue.

I don't believe the music rights issue is an insurmountable issue, even in regards to cost. I say that as someone who has done the research and talked to a number of friends who deal with music licenses. You would still need HG's permission to release anything with that carried name MACROSS on it. They have the international registered trademark to back them up, that may not be what people want to hear, but it's the truth; it's a matter of public record.

I was under the impression that one complication with Macross 7 was that the show uses music from various other Macross shows: Macross II, Macross Plus, DYRL, etc. Effectively would one not need to also license the music from those separate works for international distribution?

The music, as it appears in the "work", is included in any license granted to a licensee by a licensor. The only time it would be a conflict would be if the anime/foreign work contained music that was not composed/originated in Japan. This is what happened specifically with the Gundam 0083 and Zeta Gundam soundtracks (more on that later)

I was under this impression as well. For a long time, anime companies would release a "box set" containing the first volume on dvd, a wrap around box, and the soundtrack of a series. If this is what was planned for Macross 7, then perhaps the view that the soundtrack was a seperate release may have increased costs greatly, but if they were only using the series itself I can't see how it would be such a hurdle as it is said to be.

On another note, it has been stated here that Macross designs can not be used in any Robotech animation etc etc etc.....that being said does the continued sale of the Protoculture collection, which contains The Sentinels, serve as a violation due to them making money off an animated work containing Macross footage? Just curious.

Music CD rights are different from home video rights. Something separate would have to be worked out for the release of that as it would be considered a separate product outside the purview of the license for home video. This is where I could see the Macross 7 music rights could be a nightmare.

It definately would be nice to get clarification. When you look at anime titles that have scenes from a prior series, so few seem to do it well. One of the few I can think of that does it well is Gundam 0083:Stardust Memory, and it did so by using stills that were drawn in the same style of the show depicting previous battles (In the opening). It didn't actualy use the animation or shots from a previous series. I couldn't imagine HG ever wanting to use the original MAcross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada footage in anyway in any potential new project. That's probably why when people mention that the new sidequel could be LLA, I can't imagine how that can be seriously considered a good idea by HG.

Even if 0083 used animation from other Gundam series, it's all under Bandai/Sunrise. Now, theoretically, if another anime company wanted to make an anime that had a scene involving a Gundam, they would have to get permission from Bandai/Sunrise (as the copyright holder).

As the copyright holder of the 41 designs, Big West/Studio Nue would have to give permission for any of those designs to be used in any "new" animation.

As copyright holder of the Macross series, along with the international registered trademark for the "Macross" name, Tatsunoko would have to give permission for any "new" Macross series to be released internationally, outside of Japan.

Oh, you'd be shocked at what Tommy Yune thinks is a good idea.

...then again, maybe you wouldn't.

IIRC, both Zeta Gundam and Hokuto no Ken were released in North America with BGM filling in for the original songs, because the song rights were denied to the US companies. Now that may be fine for those series, where songs don't play an important part in the story, but for something like Macross 7 (or, potentially, Frontier), it would be deadly.

I am not sure about Hokuto no Ken, but the Zeta Gundam songs were based on songs composed by Neil Sedaka, he is even credited specifically on the songs. When it came time to release them in the United States, they did not want to pay the royalties associated with a release in the United States and Canada.

The Gundam 0083 composer, Mitsuo Hagita, blatantly ripped off several composers and used tracks lifted from movies like Glory, 2010, The Thing and Brainstorm. Many of the tracks were removed from the American release. It's a shame, because some of these tracks work perfectly in 0083.

I believe concerns about the music rights are overstated. There would be no hindrance to it being shown as part of the series released on DVD or shown on TV. That's inclusive in any license granted by companies in Japan. Virtually all anime has vocal music and the original production company is required to pay the artists/songwriters. Macross 7 is no different than other animes with a catalog of songs, I don't know of any case where music rights held up a release of an anime in North America.

The problem comes in releasing the music by itself on CD or other medium by itself (download, streaming, etc.); separate royalties and arrangements would have to be made to do that.

The non-release of Macross 7 is due to the fact that HG has the right to sell "Macross" products worldwide outside of Japan (via license from Tatsunoko)

The three companies involved BW, HG and TP would have to come to an agreement for that to happen.

Don't hold your breath...

A lot of truth in this thread recently.

Keith: Fastest way to shut down any robotech zealot, is to simply ask "well, if HG can use whatever they want, and release whatever they want, then why haven't they!" End of story.

Touché, sir. Touché.

Seto Kaiba: Yeah, that was exactly how Maverick_LSC reacted to having that pointed out to him, he claimed it was a remark taken out of context and tried to claim that it really meant that Carl Macek didn't want to use the iconic Macross designs. It really drives home a pattern... the most vocal Robotech fans are usually the least knowledgeable. The more you know about it, the less likely you are to actually attempt to defend it as something worthwhile.

As the organizer of Robocon 10 and someone who spent a lot of time talking with Carl about these very issues, I can assure you, Carl's comments were not taken out of context.

Sentinels designs look that way for a reason, as does RTSC for that matter.

Maverick_LSC doesn't know what he's talking about.

I think the PKC is a little too overt. They're pretty obvious and just look like a thug group of Nazi brownshirts; but maybe that was the intent.

Jessica walks out of the military headquarters and there isn't a soul around when she starts walking? Surely the press would have mobbed her. Some things remind me of Cindy Sheehan, but Jessica is far more intelligent. I also thought the PKC's humming of the FPA national anthem was weird. I know they are zealots, but I think Truniht's henchmen would be a little more subtle and insidious.

Julian Minci... I'll save comments on him for later

Kircheis is fiercely loyal to Reinhard and I get that and it's cool, but he's still a bit of a mystery to me. My question is "what is Kircheis getting out of all of this, personally?" Their relationship as kids is definitely out of some storybook, but I do like the "lifelong friends" factor in their relationship.

The next two episodes give more insight into Yang and Reinhard's characters. Yang deals with his new success and is promoted to Rear Admiral and is given an impossible new assignment. Reinhard is promoted to Grand Admiral and we see how he first met Kircheis and learn what happened to his sister Annerose

Episode 003 - "Birth of the 13th Fleet"

"Dai Jūsan Kantai Tanjō" (第十三艦隊誕生)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqThJ-LTWsU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUmyiiFN1ao

Episode 004 - "Empire’s Afterglow"

"Teikoku no Zanshō" (帝国の残照)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-X7Cbox5Fs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWxNXe8p2-U