elrdf

It's the same guy. Many animation framing companies recommend that lab. Give him a call and ask, he knows a lot about the anime cels from the 80's and how they were made. You can send a piece from your collection to him to evaluate. The man gives lectures around the world teaching on art preservation and restoration. 

wow, yea I guess it's worth it if it's 1-200 dollars which I think that's his price range for some really key pieces. I want to have some cels separated from backgrounds that are stuck. He said to send them in to check them out to see what can be done.

https://www.srlabs.com/

Ron Stark, he's been doing it for over 40 years VERY informative. I learned a lot from him. 

Thanks for the advice guys, what about sending it to this pro that does the preservation? He said the inspection is free but most times all pieces need to be treated and acid removed from the paper with some type of calcium treatment.

 I agree and that definitely makes sense that’s what that professional guy told me that everyone would be doing it if it was a process that worked however I don’t think people would like to have their art pieces in resin even if it did work.  I guess I can ask the company if this process will illuminate hydrolysis.  It’s really a shame because you can preserve  Nice piece and it can maybe last for 10 or 20 years or so and then start deteriorating from within possibly but I wonder how much life these cels/ back rounds currently have being in their mid-30s ..  if they last another 50 years or so that would be pretty cool but who knows .. I guess really the best way to preserve them if they’re framed is to make sure that the celluloids   Have ample space between them and the background as well as being in a room that is not really hot or humid   And keeping it away from sunlight. 

I'm still stuck on the idea of sealing art. I spoke with apparently the most professional animation art preservation dude around and he said it's a bad idea because if it deteriorates in the resin there is no turning back.. I think that the art can be preserved perfectly and last MANY more years in resin. Aside form discoloration being exposed to light it should be good. This company has a resin specifically made for sealing art and has UV protection as well. They suggested the art be sealed first to prevent any gases from being emitted from the background causing bubbles. I still strongly feel that it could be a good idea if done by a professional. There should be groups or resin experts that can do it. From what this animation  preservation guy told me is that everyday is like playing with fire not having the cels/backgrounds treated and deacidified for they were not made to last at all. The backgrounds are not acid free paper and the paint from the cels emit a gas that will destroy all of it. I wonder how long they can last... I like to keep my key cels framed but in areas that are dark in the room, not directly in front of sunlight/artificial light. Thoughts? Sorry for bringing this up again I just keep thinking about it.

https://www.artresin.com/blogs/artresin/should-i-seal-my-artwork-before-i-resin

"Thanks for contacting us

Yes!! You certainly can use ArtResin over your pieces! Now I would suggest using a pre-sealant on them prior to applying the resin. Many papers and sometimes inks can off-gas and create bubbles in the resin as it cures. By creating this barrier with your pre-sealant it will help to prevent this from happening. We do not favor any one sealant but I might suggest reaching out to your local craft store to see if they recommend one that will work well with your art.

Here is our most recent blog on sealing your art, it should also be of help: 
https://www.artresin.com/blogs/artresin/should-i-seal-my-artwork-before-i-resin

Our FAQ has a wealth of knowledge to help you get started: www.artresin.com/faq 

As always we suggest doing a trial run on a non masterpiece to be sure you will have to results you desire.
"

 When I get on my computer later tonight I’ll verify if it  was used on the show or not 

10 minutes ago, slide said:

Resins also tend to get hot as the chemical reactions take place... 

 I wonder how hot and if it’s enough to damage the piece unless something could be put over the background prior to the resin being poured over it to prevent the heat from damaging it there must be a way to preserve this art permanently sunlight can’t damage it but you can get some type of “sunglasses“ they can go over like shades and that’s your  leisure you can remove it to look at the art  there must be a way to be able to display it without it deteriorating ...

12 minutes ago, Fortress_Maximus said:

@MacrossManiac:  I would not encase any artwork in resin mainly because it is still subject to light.  The light will still deteriorate the contents encased in resin.  Also, I do not want to handle artwork as fragile as cels, so using resin is not a good match for me.  But hey try it if you feel it might work, but I'd recommend using a low to medium grade artwork first.

On a related note for those of you interested, here is a research paper conducted by the American Institute for Conservation of Historic and Artistic Works.
http://resources.conservation-us.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2015/03/osg021-11.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2iCPSL_jYlwrFDDgJM0u3R-BRICuNypnHf6K-86t887ZmQ6OjEMsBJPCQ

osg021-11.pdf 750.94 kB · 0 downloads

 You are right about the light factor maybe there could be an extra coat of some type of protection but I feel that if the background and the  Cel  weather slightly separated in different layers with in the resin or  stuck together it would  preserve it for such a long time like a very thin block of resin .  It would definitely need to be tried on cheaper pieces just to experiment with it .   It is just so frustrating that framing it is not really good and shortens the life of the art but the question is is some of these pieces still look really good even with vinegar syndrome after 36 years or so so I wonder how much longer they have before they completely disintegrate ..

22 minutes ago, Fortress_Maximus said:

@jvmacross: My educated guess this was a tester cel, however, the details give me reason to doubt the origin.  MW user SAVE is a huge Macross II fan.  He might know more about that particular image. 

 

@elrdf: Unfortunately, owning original artworks be it animation cels, drawings, and/or paintings inherently poses risks.  The sad reality is the medium used for each of these artworks were never created to last and are exceptionally fragile.  With the rare exception of post production and limited edition creations, production artwork (especially cels circa 1980s) are in advanced stages of breaking down.  So before you even attempt to buy artwork it is already degrading.  Many production cels already have traceline fading (aka browning), stuck dougas, vinegar syndrome, or a combination of issues before collectors ever attempt to buy it. 

 

From a conservation perspective there are few techniques available to slow deterioration, but certainly no proven and consistent methods to reverse the common types of damage to artwork.  There are academic white papers written on this topic, but it basically boils down to accepting the art works are rapidly breaking down before you buy it.  Original artworks are best preserved unframed, undisplayed, and stored in climate controlled environments, if your goal to extend the longevity.  If you insist on displaying artwork, accept doing so accelerates the deterioration process and be prepared to eventually pay a high amount to attempt to professionally restore.  Good luck.

 Thanks for the information hey I just had this crazy idea !! What if you could seal the  Cel and background in resin!!!?!?!  It would be preserved like forever you can have a matte finish to the resin or a glass you will never have to worry about it deteriorating ever !!

 Or like you see animal specimens or flowers that are in solid resin cubes they would last forever !! Any thoughts on that? 

I spoke with a professional art restorator/conservator and we were discussing framing cels with backgrounds. He said that these Macross cels/drawings and backgrounds need to be deacidified with some type of calcium treatment or something like that. He said the paper that the backgrounds were on were not acid free. Also, he said acid free portfolio album's backing matte etc is not acid free. It is made acid free but once it touches the air the acid from the water in the air attaches to it so it's not truly acid free. I found all of this info to be very interesting cause I like to frame some good cels instead of keeping them in a dark storage room.

Obviously not to be in any direct light but I assumed that just UV protection acrylic glass and separate between the multi-layered cels and background by a few mm would suffice. He said it doesn't.. It just really sucks that you have to worry about this stuff. He also mentioned that if the lines in the cel are turning brown that it's a sign that the cel is started to disintegrate. The treatment for each background and drawing to make it essentially acid free is around $80-120 a piece. I wonder how long these will last without getting to the "oh crap" stage. Most of every cel, background, drawing that I have seem to be in beautiful immaculate condition aside from the black lines turning brown on the cel. Cels stuck to backgrounds he said is a big big issue and it can deteriorate completely in a short period of time. I know this has been discussed many times, however, I feel like this is some new important information that I never knew ( or some of it) .Any thoughts?

I'd like to stop the discussion about me reselling cels, quit dogging me and that's it. Whenever I post a new cel someone almost immediately has a comment to say or refer to me as a "dirty scalper" etc.. I LOVE Macross and collecting the cels. I happen to resell/trade them from time to time that's it period.

1 hour ago, zard said:

Wait lets take a moment to really understand this... so you are buying up Macross art from Japan, and then deliberately flipping them?  And you are delusional enough to believe what you are doing is a "service" for people outside of Japan?  Unbelievable.  You are absolutely NOT creating any service or helping people outside of Japan by hoarding and selling off your scraps.  What you are doing is inflating prices and then scalping! 

So how on earth does this "benefit" other collectors?  Do you fail to understand you are the direct cause of the current inflated prices and why other collectors got outbid?  When you bid insane prices for artworks you DO NOT raise the value of other artwork existing in collections.  All you do is price out other interested buyers. 

More importantly why are you actively buying up everything in sight, just to sell them off at double and triple the final selling price?!  This practice is the definition of scalping! 

If you really want to allow other collectors the opportunity to buy at "decent prices", how about allowing other collectors the opportunity to bid without your involvement?  You got 20+ auctions in ebay right now and many of them were bought recently and relisted for significant markups.  You are doing exactly what UTHJ and silverdrago are doing and it is disgusting. 

Please stop lying that you are helping others, the only person you are helping is yourself. 

 

Dude, whatever if I don't buy, 100% other ebay scalpers will like urbanthj. I have seen it then relisted quickly at a MUCH higher price. A lot of them I keep as well, they probably don't. I don't do it really to help others but in a way it really is beneficial like I said a cel that will sell for 30 I resell for 120 for example I'd be lucky to break even. Why? The proxy bidding fees, shipping, ebay sellers fees and shipping to the buyer what do ya make a few bux? Now that same 30 dollar cel if bought by a japanese scalper would sell it maybe for 300 and not incur a lot of the additional fees PLUS charge you shipping..

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

Too bad you didn't snatch it up so we could all get the opportunity to buy it from you at double the price....I mean at least that would have been better than what UTHJ would have tried to scalp it for right? 

Exactly!! Hahaha., jk. Nothing wrong with buying, keeping some and selling the rest, what I do is beneficial at the end of the day. Gettin cels out of Japan and people outside of japan can buy at decent prices. No need to exlpain myself to anyone anyways. I am a huge Macross fan and love collecting nice cels, selling some too.

This one sold for over 23k a while back. Wow.

https://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auction/item/itemInfoEn.html?index=266361

I just hold on to some and sell the rest, in a way like i said it's beneficial. people outside of japan can have the opportunity to buy some cels,  In some cases I make some money back on expensive cels that I bought, it raises the value of everyone's cels here and the scalpers that are charging an arm and a leg it drives them away from the Macross cels.

6 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

I am pretty sure we both are...does that count? 

Although a very nice cel....it is just not as iconic as the recent Max VF-1A cel...

Still....these cels seem to sell higher on Mandarake all the time....who knows what that Max cel would have fetched on Mandarake...

 

The Max cel didn't have the background though, it was just the cel. I also wonder, I mean you can easily verify the authenticity of the cels on YJ as you can with Mandarake. I seriously wonder who is paying so much. The last Mandarake auction had Douga selling for such high prices. I'm thinking it was one person that was bidding on all of them. The storyboard for the last episode sold for over $6,000.00.

I am collecting. I did purchase many cels recently and am keeping the ones that I like. Some of the cheaper ones sold I decided to buy and resell, if not me uTHJ and others will list them at astronomical prices.  Actually, a majority of the cels after they have been sold and I get almost exactly what I paid for them. for example, a cel that I paid 50 for with all expenses of getting it here I'm at 80+ if I resell for 120-150 after ebay expenses and shipping I break even or make a few bux so it's actually beneficial. A cel that I'd sell for 200, UTHJ or silverdrago would list for 400 or so. Also, when they sell for higher prices your cels values will go up as well. 

7 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Is it me or did he jack up the price on it?  Thought it was listed at around 800 USD?

I still have some cash to burn 

 

No he jacked it up. It was at like $795.00 I think initially. so much for just a split second shot but a cool ass cel. Sucks that it's not from TV.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yup.

Thanks! It's funny I just mentioned that there are never any SDF cels and this one popped up, just sucks that it's not a TV cel.

Does anyone know where this is from?

Aaahhh I see.  I was looking at that episode and skip through that part to fast just recently.  Thank you so much for pointing that out !

1 minute ago, Mokman said:

Its not a TV cel.  Take a close look at the Macross.  I has the ARMD carriers on the arms instead of the Daedalus and Prometheus.  The quality of the artwork also seems to be much better than anything that was in the original TV series.

 Exactly that’s what I noticed but I’m not sure where it’s from though.

1 hour ago, tekering said:

You mean this one?

It's from Macross II... and it's sold.

 That one was massive...

9 minutes ago, Mokman said:

No this one.  But that one was very nice.  The asking price was something like $2k wasn't?

 I don’t think this one is from Macross 7z it also not from DYRL it Tv.