Fit For Natalie

Its also a reasonable explanation to why he had that face in the first place - aside from the current Armadaverse versions of Jetfire, most TFs don't have the VF-1S's distinctly smooth and relatively featurless head with the single visor strip.

Someone did posted the DW Jetfire pics which pay homage to G1 Valk Jetfire like almost 2 years ago. Is this a newer design? (Edit: Duh it is)

Regardless, its cool! I'd buy the toy in a heartbeat if they ever made one.

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I believe Don's G1 Jetfire was just his detailed version of the G1 Skyfire cartoon model, and he also designed another Jetfire in the War Within series with was more futuristic, alien, yet somewhat based on the newer Valks in leg design.

So yeah, this is an all-new design

Those two panels of Stormbringer were more interesting than the last 15 years of TF animated cartoons combined. 

I wish we'd get more TF comic-based toys.  Hopefully the Titanium series will last a while.

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Which is interesting to me given the mood and dialogue is most consistant with the structure they have in Beast Wars. The military lingo, the BW phrases which is now part of general TF lexicon ect.

Walky noted that among the toy-like details on that Jetfire is the 'hinge gap' on the grey part (in front of his head) that looks like an airbrake - TF toys tend to have such a gap in hinged parts that have a metal pin. I assume its to relieve stress on the plastic.

Another thing is the gaps in the chest and the way the shoulders are articulated.

Myself, I noticed there's a distinct line running down the middle of his big rifle, suggesting its actually two rifles combined, like the Gundam Wing Zero Custom.

Regardless or whether its a toy or not, its design is quite interesting. Aside from the obvious Super Valkyrie homage, elements of his body seem to be based on Armada Jetfire, specifically the way his shoulders and legs are rounded off (at least on the cover)

A close up of his normal mode face (I like how big and powerful Afterburner looks there)

Near full view of Jetfire battle mode - oddly enough from this angle his lower torso looks like it was based on a Gundam.

Read about the Transformers: Stormbringer comic here, with more pics. I should note I uploaded the above pics onto my own picspace - so I don't waste Newsarama's bandwith

Heh, I work as an enigneer myself and no where on our jobsite with the somewhat 20 different constuction vehicles that we have (Cat, Case, Komatsu, Gradall etc.) is there any vehicle that looks as remotely hideous as that.  I'm all for it being painted in construction like colors... if that's what it came out to look like that is.  I think a little more detail work could have gone a long way. 

Besides he's actually a cement mixer, which isn't really a construction vehicle per se.  We use three different cement mixing companys at our jobsite and each has their own unique designs and colors correspondent to the company and none of them are painted like construction vechicles; Gray, Green and White.  If you think about it, he could have really wound up being any color no matter what vehicle he is, but i just feel this was a let down compared to the potential i saw him having as a new and unique mold.

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I hate the fact he has the stupid sideways fist, where the fist is in the wrong orientation to the elbow joint.

I quite like this Jetfire design. Its been *SUGGESTED* that, even though artist Don Figueroa designs his TF characters to transform logically, this picture seems more 'toy-like' in design than usual... so it *MIGHT* be a glimpse at Classics Jetfire.

Last time I checked construction vehicles were generally painted in bright colours, such as this orange

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20060501.html

http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20060502.html

Ahh okay.

I think it looks like the movie Judge Dread Lawmaster gun myself

Does Megatron comes bundled with Time Crisis? 

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Oh wow... they both look like a crappy gun. Do you really think Hasbro bothered to copy the crappy Time Crisis gun?

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Welcome to 'America has too many real guns and people can get shot or arrested for waving around a fake real-looking gun'. You should have heard the guy over at the GI Joe forums who was assembling a bootleg G1 Megatron he had just bought from the flea market, while sitting in his car. Until he saw a guy in a car opposite to him reach under his seat for a real gun.

Assuming Hasbro wasn't forced to change the colours already - make a real looking gun and by US LAW they'd have to make it bright orange.

I think Prime's gun turns into the trucker's spoiler-thing. The spoiler those types of trucks have on their roofs.

Very bad photocopied pictures of the upcoming Transformers: Classics Optimus Prime and Megatron. Classics will replace Cybertron as the mainline in October or so.

Megatron is a gun, Prime is a truck. It looks like Prime has a rub symbol on his shoulder/side of truck.

Well, those missiles were only ever used in robot mode (and only a few times on the show). As I recall Starscream rarely, if ever, used missiles in fighter mode.

Those turbines wouldn't be in use in robot mode, anyway.

It should be noted some of the bots on that list have non-speaking roles. Bumblebee is said to be mute.

To all the self-proclaimed 'hardcore G1 fans', 'true transformers fans' and movie fanatics who have popped up since the movie was announced and have been slagging off modern transformers recently because the new stuff is alledgedly nothing like the 'real transformers':

HA HA.

I hope so, because if it comes down to it, I'd prefer bigger, TF-like hands with limited articulation than smaller ones that have better finger movement.

... that sounds dirty.

Okay okay fair enough

Here's one good thing about Takara having to make MP Starscream with US toy safety laws in mind - it will be alot sturdier than the collector-minded 1:48 Valks, I'll wager.

I hope Starscream's hands aren't as girly looking as what I've seen from the 1:48s though.

But when you say: "they live on an alien planet and they are alien vehicles" it opens up the possibilty that the vehicles are just there for half assed reasons and the toy designers can make up any excuse. Example: if the aliens can fight in humanoid form, what advantage would there be in turning into another object? There wouldn't be. So now we don't have to put as much thought into the complexity of the transformation because we don't have to make an alt mode accurate to any real life thing.

Vehicle modes on Cybertron served a purpose. They were not 'half-assed reasons' they 'made up'.

1. Practicality: Alt modes have the advantage of allowing the robots to travel faster (either on the ground or in flight) than they can in robot mode. Some alt modes have more armour, some alt modes have more firepower than their robot modes, but have the disadvantage of the lack of dexterity the robot mode provides.

And certain alt modes have functions and features that would not be possible, too cumbersome or unwieldly in robot mode.

2. Disguise: In the cartoon, on Cybertron the robots still utilised larger non-transforming transportation. Disguise allowed the Autobots to make hit-and-run attacks on the unsuspecting Decepticons.

Alien looking vehicles are pefectly reasonable on alien worlds. On Velocitron the robots whole culture is based upon racing, so they are primarily designed for speed. On Gigantion the robots build cities, so they are designed as construction vehicles and excavators.

In the cartoon (or was it the comic?) it made sense the computer (teletran 1?) thought cars were the 'alien' lifeforms so creating robots that look like 'aliens' as a disguise, was a beneficial trick. Not only could you take advantage of what that the machine's purpose was (example the constucticons are acutally useful as construction vehicles and are seen being used) but natives would not get suspicious. The good guy robots could then go to any planet to hide from the decepticons (note how the autobots are like a resistance that has to go underground?) and fight both 1. with the advantages of being machines that can get work done efficiently, and 2. without those people giving clues to enemy where they are. (becuase they are disguised amongst common objects in that world. Making it easier to stay hidden. Although in the cartoon this rarely happened, as a toy it works when people see it and don't realise that the toy is a robot in disguise - the alternators really do look like ordinary car models on the outside.)

I believe you just made my point for me, but on Earth.

The Autobots were for the most part, civilians - engineers, scientists, labourers, archivists. Optimus Prime himself was originally the archivist Optronix in the Dreamwave War Within comic.

For me the diguise element (and the fact that they were machines) was what made it cool. You can have a transforming "alien tree", or a transforming "alien" monster, but where is the usefulness in that as a toy which transforms to look like an object another person sees as a disguise and is actually fooled by it? You'd want to transform into something that can be used and stuff. (that doesn't mean the insides have to be functional parts and mimmick the real thing, but that on the outside at least you will not be seen to attract attention or give away your position to an enemy)

Erm, you do realise Transformers was not set wholly on Earth, right?

This is why I didn't like Beast wars. I don't mind beasts amoungst the machines to break up the team and introduce some variety, but not as a "theme" (like everyone is a beast). The dinobots were mainly cool because dinosaurs are a "cool" animal and deadly real life animals, than because kids necessarily think robots are better as beasts rather than vehicles/machines. You look at Grimlock as a dumb dinosaur with no intelligence becuase he is like this big dumb animal. If grimlock is a car that personality of a Giant imposing T-Rex is lost. You don't look at grimlock in car mode as this "big dumb animal" who goes into a rage and gets out of control and won't listen to commands when he is turned into a machine. So It's not that I'm against beasts if thought has also gone into the characters and thier personality as well.

The G1 cartoon origin for the Dinobots is non-canon nowadays. Grimlock was kind of a tank-like vehicle on Cybertron, and is portrayed as an intelligent military commander who simply says little, with a speech pattern suggesting low intelligence, even thoigh he isn't. The other Dinobots (or Dynobots are they were called on Cybertron) had varying intelligence, though Sludge really is stupid.

I'm also not saying that as a tv series the story of beast wars was not good, or that the toyline itself was poor quality, but that the concept of prime as a truck IMO is more appealing to me than prime as an ape. Mainly because I like the idea that a robot transforms into something cool or "useful". (like jetfighters are cool cuz they would fly in the air, a construction vehicle can be used, a cassette can be used to record for spy purposes, a gun can be held to actually shoot people, cars can be used to actually drive to a place with little fuss etc)

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Well its a good thing then that Optimus Primal is not Optimus Prime. Optimus is an affectionate nickname given to him by his crew.

That pretty much sums up my own feelings.  The writing on Beast Wars was better than most TF series, but the fact the characters were transformers really seemed inconsequential to me, almost pointless.  Why did they really even need to transform into anything, especially animals?  The world they were in just seemed so lifeless and void of anything that wasn't a Predacon or a Maximal that there seemed to be little reason for any kind of alt mode, kind of like how there seems to be little reason for any alt modes on Cybertron.   

I'll never argue that G1 is better than Beasts or demand TRUKK not MUNKKY!, because different people like different things.  In my opinion, beast Transformers and vehicle Transformers are apples and oranges.  People like what they like and it's nice to have variety to appeal to different tastes.  On a whole the newer 'random sci-fi vehicle' designs haven't appealed much to me, but there are some that I really enjoy (GF Prime, the upocming WWI Prime) so I'm glad that aspect of Transformers is there, too.  There's plenty of room for all sorts with this franchise.

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After the Great War, with the rarity of energon and energy supplies, the Cybertronians began a process of cultural and technological revolution where they shrank their bodies down to (roughly) humanoid size, which far lower power consumption than in the previous G1-type bodies, and could supplement that with consumption of food. BW Megatron refers to the old robotd as 'archiac energon guzzlers', referencing the fact they wasted their energy.

Beast Wars is set 300 years after the end of G1. The robots, for the most part, transformed into Cybertronian vehicles with an animalistic bent to them. Eg, Lio Convoy is portrayed in the new Beast Wars comic as having a Liger Zero type vehicle mode.

When a Predacon rogue named Megatron stole the Golden Disc from Cybertron and made off with a small band of supports, the Maximal survey ship Axalon, commanded by 'Optimus' Primal was ordered to intercept. Both ships transwarped into orbit of a primative planet rich with energon deposits. The Maximals and Predacons blasted each other out of the sky and crash landed.

It was soon discovered that there was so much energon that their bodies could not withstand the energy build up without requiring an alt mode that would be immune, so they scanned local animals who seemed unaffected by the energon. By this time Cybertronian technology had advanced to such a stage that the melding of organic material and robotics was nothing unusual. The beast modes also had special abilities unique that gave them advantages (and disadvantages) over the robot modes.

And that's why they have beast modes. Of course, by the end of the first season the Vok had detonated most of the Energon on Earth, or turned them into stable cubes, so it was moot.

Frankly, I'm surprised by you guys - you give all sorts of reasons why realistic alt modes are so useful on Earth, but then completely disregard the same usefulness those alt modes, but with an alien asthetic as they should, would have back on their homeworld. Is it because they don't look like Earth vehicles that you find it so unbelievable? That's a rather narrow view.

-FFN

Well, Transformers G1 died because it was just a fad that was losing steam - remember, back then it was just a another toyline that already had sucess for for 3 years. Its natural for kids to grow up and move onto Nintendo or other newer, hipper fads, and as such, the line begins to falter and lose popularity.

The realism is king explanation doesn't really explain why Beast Wars, Armada, Energon were sucessful, given they're not the most 'realistic' looking lines.

Many of the old-school established fandom were all 'G1 fans' too, because that was all they had. But for the most part, they eventually embraced Beast Wars and appreciated what came after, too.

I prefer realism because they are supposed to be in disguise.  All the Cybertron/GF stuff is too futuristic and weird for me.  I think a real world design can take plenty of imagination to make a good bot form.  Gobots showed a real lack of imagination in transforming to robots but TFs I think has usually done a good job where they don't look too much like cars standing up on end.

My problem with non-real designs is that they tend to look too goofy in their alt mode.  Then they don't look much better in their robot mode. 

I think the movie era transformers are some of the worst: Hot Rod, Blurr, Kup.  I don't know how they were actually designed but it seems like they made the robot form first and then shoehorned them into random looking futuristic vehicles.  In my opinion that takes less imagination than shoe-horning it into a real world vehicle.

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Re: Cybertron

You're kidding right? That line has a large number of based on real world vehicles/passably real vehicles - probably the highest number of the last 5 years - yet maintains a balance with Cybertronian/alien vehicles.

Hell, You're lucky to get fairly realistic vehicles at all given the majority of the series is set on other planets.

TFs are designed alt mode first. Then they try and figure out how to make a robot out of it. Rarely, have they designed a robot first, alt mode second unless it was for a special version of an established design, like Masterpiece Convoy.

One problem I have with realism for realism's sake is that it stifles creativity on the design side of things.

Which is more of a challenge? Creating a non-real world design that's recognisable as a type of vehicle or basing it upon something that already exists? It is not cheating - if anything, its a different challenge.

Realism has the challenge of turning an established design (or a composite of several real designs) into a good-looking robot with an interesting transformation, yet maintain its realistic design.

Fake designs have the same robot and transformation challenges, but has a challenge of creating something futuristic (either outlandishishly high tech, alien or something possibly from the real near future) that is at the same time identifiyable as a type or class of vehicle.

There's also the chance that an outlandish design may inspire something in the real world. Eg, an outlandish looking concept car may be used for inspiration for a more conservatively designed real car. Or hell, over time, that 'outlandish' design may seem less and less strange over time.

Granted, many fake designs wouldn't work well in Earth-based settings. I guess what I am saying is non-real designs add flavour to Transformers, a line that would otherwise be filled with similar-looking cars, trucks and planes.

Oh, Classics will have a new Grimlock, and I'm looking forward to that *thumbs up*

I'm guessing the stabilators simply fold up and lay next to the v.stabs---nowhere else for them to go.  I really should go to TFW2005 and make a "basic parts of the F-15" post, as we get 50 people calling the same part 50 different wrong terms, confusing everyone...

What I really want to see are the missile launchers, as opposed to the cannons.  I hope the robot-mode cannons aren't the only option to put under the wings in fighter mode.

PS--Fit For Natalie---I've heard nothing about the Hasbro Classics SS being an F-15.  Is that confirmed or just a good guess?  I was highly unimpressed with Astrotrain, and frankly don't expect the new line's jets to resemble real ones any more than G1 Hot Rod resembles a real car.

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According to the control art that came with THS02 G1 Convoy, his cluster bombs (drop tank looking things) are an option. Starscream only really carried those two payloads that magically changed depending on his modes

Classics Starscream, as a highly detailed F-15 was shown on a slide at Hasbro's Panel during Botcon 2005. His robot mode was similar to this, a detailed cartoon model-style robot mode with long laser cannons. No pics are available as pics aren't allowed during the panel.

As for Astrotrain, well, that's the problem with Triple Changers - most normal TF and normal japanese transforming mecha usually deal with only two true forms, or in the case of the Valkyries Gerwalk, a half-assed middle form. I'm sorry, but from a Transformers perspective, it's true - Gerwalk isn't really much of a third form. Or second form depending on the order you view.

True Triple Changers have to sacrifice one form's realism for the sake of the others. In G1, it was the robot mode, and to a lesser extent, the shuttle mode. In Classics Astro, its the bullet train mode. I'm quite impressed that they managed to do it at all given the inherent engineering difficulties.

Frankly, I'm not a fan of real-world realism for realism's sake in Transformers. Realism is nice, but depending upon it shows a lack of imagination, and a lack of a sense of fun. Imagination is what drives the sucess of Transformers.

-FFN

I'm impressed with how the flaps on the wing fold away so the wings have the angular, pointed shape in robot mode (like on the cartoon and various comic art); the intakes tilt forward, again a cartoon model reference.

I wonder where the rear stabilisers go, though.

yeah, the three Starscream toys shown in that article are Takara's Reissue Collection Starscream, Robotmasters Starscream, and World's Smallest Transformers Starscream. The actual Masterpiece Starscream toy hasn't been seen yet.

We're going to be hearing that all day at non-TF boards or TF boards with less-informed members - that the line art looks great but the toys look like crap

Well, they could do it if they wanted to. Its a colour scheme, and I don't think you can trademark a colour scheme. Hell, Hasbro used the Max DYRL colours for their Armada Powerlinx Jetfire repaint.

As long as they don't call it something like 'VF-1S Super Valkyrie Jetfire Special' (Jetfire the name is still trademarked by Hasbro and Takara) or use the Autobot symbol, I think they'd be okay.

There will be two F-15 Starscream toys out this year at roughly the same time, then. This Masterpiece Starscream in September for Japan, and Hasbro's Classics Starscream (deluxe class) in October-ish in the US.

To be fair though, they weren't out to make an exact scale replica of a real-world F-15, they were making a half-way between what they could get on a real F-15 and a Starscream seeker F-15.

No, this is the first official photo. Walmart uses Hasbro's official stock photos (usually the same photos destined for packaging) for their website.

1. Design asthetic is that of a Hasbro-Takara designed Transformer. Happy Well's Road Bots, while they steal the basic Alt designs or outright steal the toolings and rework them (in the case of their Ford GT bootleg), have robot mode style and detailing that is more 'generic robot'.

2. Decepticon symbol - bootleg toys usually avoid having the actual Autobot and Decepticon symbols, since those symbols are trademarked.

3. Rumble homage - no point in a bootleg having a homage to something from a brand name that they are somewhat distancing themselves from to avoid lawsuit.

Several times now Walmart have been among the first to put up new Hasbro stock photos. Repaint Vector Prime uncovered on the same day at Walmart was our first glimpse of the repaint.

Yeah, according to Amenbo he supervised the design. Judging from the control art we've seen, this will hopefully be alot better than his efforts on THS G1 Convoy.

Vague info on MP Starscream