Tricky

SDF:M remains to be the best in my eyes; best story, characters, everything. Frontier is a shadow of the original, and to me, this is strongly pointed out with Ranka essentially being Minmay's shadow.

I even think M7 has qualities above Frontier, although M7 relied on fan-favorite characters. If M7 was the newest installment and Frontier was the second, I'd still go with M7. Frontier's story and characters make me gag overall. I'm just glad I'm not the obsessed fan I once was.

People hate Ranka that much !?!?!?

Whats hate got to do with it?

Ranka, Brera, Grace and Vajra vaporized by main cannon fire.

Actually, Ranka did sing just because she wanted to be a singer. I'm not certain how anyone could argue otherwise.

I'd have to review the episodes again, but wasn't she influenced by Sheryl and Alto to some degree? That propped her ambitions vs Minmay who was thrown into Ms. Macross without knowing it.

When it was discovered that her song had an affect on the Vajra, she cooperated because she thought she was helping to save her friends. Quickly she realized something was wrong, but it was the encouragement of Alto and others that kept her going.

Minmay did not sing to "bring peace". She sang as part of a distraction while the Macross and Vrlitwhai's fleet launched their attack on Bodolza's flagship.

That may have been Ranka's motivation, to help her friends, but she ends up no more than a tool whenever she is flown into space and sings her song.

It could be argued that Minmay wanted to help bring an end to the war, knowing that her songs had an effect on the Zentradi after Exedole told her. Minmay was never a tool even up to then: she was doing what she did best being Ms. Macross. So she didn't come out and say she was singing for peace, but singing her songs gave a sort of peace and hope to the Macross citizens. That would seem like peace, right? Yes she was a distraction from Global and Exedole's viewpoint, I agree. And it would be perfect for Minmay not to understand military tactics, so she just did what she did best. To some degree, Ranka must know of why she's sings. She went with Mikhail and showed up singing in a sound booster valkyrie to keep the 33rd fleet from revolting. She proves to be a tool again.

So perhaps that is why the bugs developed a little resistance (in ep21) because ranka's singing lacked the true emotion needed behind it, to move them? Just speculating.. There has always been that theme in previous shows where music varies in its usefulness and the character has some self doubt that makes them lose sight of why they chose to sing in the first place. Ranka's self doubt about the reasons for singing is no different. She know she is being used as a "distraction" and that so long as she isn't 100% certain it's the "right thing to do" just singing the song without feeling will lack the energy needed to make a difference. That's my take on the whole thing.

I agree. Ranka knowing she is a distraction and basically unsure if she should sing just makes her character poorer, imo.

It wasn't really directed at you just the people who point out all the fault of ranka but conveniently never mention that those same faults are in older versions of the pampered/sheltered pop princess role in macross shows before. Where they get to a point where they forget about the larger responsibility of using the music to help the military in some way to save lives.

Yeah no problem. But Minmay sang just to sing, and if she could, bring peace too, so that's why she cooperated with Global. Ranka is a tool to weaken/repel the Vajra. That's the big difference. Ranka could be apart of a Sound Force Jamming Birds, since they too, were portrayed as tools by UNS.

Ranka isn't a spoiled brat, she is just a kid. She only gets fussy about Alto, her first love... How many of you were idiots about your first crush/relationship?

Minmay was a stuck up biatch for almost every moment after Miss Macross.

I wouldn't confuse stuck up with being self-absorbed, which is why she came off like a biatch in certain scenes.

Yep when ranka runs away from her responsibility to sing at the funeral that is no different from when minmay runs away in DYRL and hikaru chases after her to give her the lyrics that misa translated from the memory plate that she and hikaru found when stranded on earth together. Minmay says to hikaru: "why the hell should I sing those lyrics you and that lady made for me to sing?"

I challenge all ranka haters to go rewatch DYRL and tell me minmay was acting any more mature then. (and that version of minmay is the oldest one!) You then come back into this thread and tell me minmay wasn't acting selfishly because she wanted to be happy with hikaru and only sing if she had won hikaru's heart...with a straight face. Really..minmay is sooo different. Much less selfish.

Look I'm sorry ranka haters. I'm just not convinced you are using the same standards to measure her by as you did for minmay from both DYRL and SDFM.

Yeah, I'm using SDF:M standards and not DYRL which was like an encapsulated and different version of the series.

My opinion: You just go soft on minmay because ranka is newer. Minmay does the exact same thing, but you just chose to ignore this. Ranka does it, "oh that's so selfish!"

Not me. I posted my reasons why I don't like Ranka.

Of course Brera being in the way is only making things worse since he is Ranka's equivalent to Kaifun constantly following her around.

Kaifun was Minmay's manager and cousin who wanted to be with her romantically. Brera is just a bodyguard ordered to watch over Ranka by Grace.

My question to the critics:

So young minmay in SDF:M can act selfish to Kaifun her manager who she relies on to look after her. But Ranka can't be selfish and irresponsible like all teens?

My answer to them is this:

Ranka = young minmay from SDF:M

Sheryl = mature grown up minmay from DYRL

Whatever reasons ranka is seen as bad can also be levelled at previous idols in the other shows. Although I'm not a big fan of ranka or sheryl myself, I just think the critics haven't been fair given we are 21 episodes in whereas in SDF:M minmay had 36 episodes to mature and listen to Kaifun and act like a grown woman.

Ranka is basically a war orphan while Minmay lived with her aunt and uncle. But aside from the story differences, Ranka isn't the young Minmay. In that case, Minmay was young all the way until she and Kaifun broke up, then began to mature after Kaifun left. But then she just wants to be with Hikaru, something I don't see Sheryl would do. Sheryl has a huge ego too, and Minmay was never like that, even when she was famous.

Like I said in a previous post, Ranka is the anti-Minmay, but character wise, Ranka's own story makes sense. I don't like her because the writers have debased Minmay in the process when Ranka sang My Boyfriend is a Pilot in such a fashion, as well as dressing her up to be the new Minmay.

One of the reasons SDF:M is liked is partly because there is a lot of characters in it. DYRL was nice to watch but it only focused on the love triangle due to time constraints and so the enemies weren't realistic - they were converted to good guys instantaneously rather than gradually. Macross 7, went in the other extreme: took way too many episodes to get its message across. Macross frontier I think has just the right balance. We get the mech porn, the characters develop quicker, but unlike SDF:macross there isn't a huge slow period in the show to stretch it to 36 eps, or the repetition of the same thing happening over and over again like in macross 7.

A another thread could be started on what is the best series, but I just say SDF:M is also liked because of it's mature characterizations and plot. I agree with the length and message of Macross 7, but in the end and after Encore and Dynamite, I liked it just as good as SDF: M. Macross F is filled with anime cliches, shaky plot, and a majority of characters you couldn't careless about (well me anyway). The animation is awesome, however. But that's all I'll say about this unless there's a topic somewhere about it.

No she didn't. She sang because it was her dream to be a singer. Not to end war. That was global's and Exedol's idea. Geez you guys need to go back and watch SDF:M just to see how immature minmay actually was.

You misunderstood. Yes, she did sing to be a singer, to bring happiness and essentially peace to the Macross citizenry under stressful times. But she inadvertently helps to end the war in the process when Exedol and Global figure out how to use culture shock. Any immaturity in Minmay completes how good a character she was. She only remains immature in her feelings for Hikaru at the end.

Well...about Mylene, people also called her the new incarnation of Minmay. And what made Fire Bomber hit the big time? Mylene singing "My Boyfriend's a Pilot" in The Lynn Minmay Story. Hell, Mylene even recorded an entire ALBUM of Minmay songs! (I know, I know...it wasn't in the show.)

Yeah you're right. Mylene and Basara did do the Lynn Minmay Story, but at least Mylene recognized who Minmay was first. It was more of a tribute, just like the Minmay song album, which I have no problem with. But eventually Firebomber prove themselves when the producers of the Lynn Minmay Story use war footage of Basara and Mylene singing to repel the Protodevilin forces. Firebomber soon establishes itself away from Minmay, based on actual footage of themselves, and not of any movie or story. That was the point of the episode, IMO.

Ranka outright sings My Boyfriend is a Pilot in or after the Ms. Macross contest in an uncharismatic story.

So just because she knows she wants Alto, that means she has no identity of her own? I don't get it.

Yeah, pretty much. Ranka is a girl who's trying to find out who she is. If she discovers shes the Queen Vajra, she'll discover apart of who she really is.

I might get lynched for this but i humbly think that Ranka's actions hold more water and feel more matured than Minmay was. Minmay had to juggle between love, career and brother and she got confused on which to give priority to and ended up being cold to hikaru cuz she was emo.

But Hikaru was cold on her at the end because he couldn't give up fighting. (I'm recalling SDF-M btw.) Minmay was a girl swept up into her dreams. After Minmay won Ms. Macross, her ambition was to bring happiness to the people of Macross City. Part of the great thing about Minmay was her singing inadvertently turned the tide of war making her the major player in the entire history of Macross. She never really got confused, only questioned why she was singing. Hikaru was always in her mind as a friend, but that changed when he confessed his love.

Ranka is the only character since SDF-M that has had so strong comparisons to Minmay. Every other major female idol was somewhat original. Sharon Apple -- a bad computer program, but original. Mylene Jenius: just by being apart of Firebomber, along with recognizing Minmay's contribution as an individual - and also didn't sing Minmay's songs to further Firebomber's career in Macross 7. Even Sheryl, the girl with a bleak past, and made into a major idol with Grace's help. She never acts or sings like Minmay. Ranka, on the other hand, emulates Minmay's character right down to her working in a Chinese restaurant. Her backstory is different, but she's later said to be the a legend in Minmay's footsteps, stealing Minmay's songs too. Ranka is the anti-Minmay. Ranka's a tool and weapon for and against the Vajra, while Minmay sang to bring peace only.

Ranka knew she wants Alto right from the start and get go. Why does she sing? Alto. Why does she fight the Vajra? Alto. Why did she go to Galia 4? Alto.

It just goes to show how much of a cardboard-tool Ranka is, as she has no real idea of who she is. Makes perfect sense if she ends up being the Vajra Queen.

I dont like Ranka simply because the writers made subtle to strong comparisons to Lynn Minmay. Minmay was 50 times a better character. When Minmay was a bee-yotch, she wasnt irritating. That was who she was. When Ranka is irritating, it's irritating. And she sings Minmay's song! Grr... but it's still a good tune.

I hope Ranka, Brera and her Vajra friends get destroyed by Battle Frontier's main cannon.