Elektrix

I still want a Mylene only version of Light the the Light.

I just finished my annual rewatch of Macross 7, and this was the first time I noticed that the Mylene version of Light the Light isn't on any of the Macross 7 albums (for some reason on this rewatch I noticed a few other Macross 7 songs I somehow never really noticed - the most egregious being Kimi no Todoke, a song that is used quite frequently near the end, but for whatever reason I think I kept on assuming it was just another Mylene song like Pillow Dream or something).

I'm assuming at this point in time though, will just have to live with the various song versions that haven't been released not coming out.

From http://www.gabrielarobin.com/mainsite/gr.html

We'll probably never get anything more than this lol

Wow, very cool. I check that site regularly but missed that I guess. Either way, good to know it's no longer some secret we're supposed to ignore.

And isn't it nice to be able to say that definitively...?

Wait, I might have missed something, but did she finally acknowledge that Gabriela Robin is an alias for herself?

I think this is definitely one of those subjects that is going to depend on personal tastes, etc.

I will say her work on Macross Plus was excellent (and it's what introduced me to her music; and I've seen a number of people mention that the music for Macross Plus was what really made them take notice of soundtracks in general), and it has some of my favorite works of hers; Wanna Be An Angel, Santi-U, After in the Dark/Torch Song, Information High, Voices. I also love the orchestral stuff - especially the National Anthem of Macross.

But I think I'd take issue with the notion that it is specifically special in the sense that it is varying and unique, which seems to be a large part of your point. I guess arguably some of her soundtrack work has been a bit less varied (I guess I would point to Turn A Gundam as a soundtrack that has a lot of music of the same general style, or maybe Darker Than Black). But I don't think I'd say that Macross Plus is the epitome of a soundtrack representing variety and uniqueness - I think I'd probably have to point to Cowboy Bebop and/or Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex.

I would say, to be fair, that it's hard to compare..... the Macross Plus soundtrack represents the music needed for 4 half-hour OVA episodes and a movie version of the OVA's. By comparison, the musical output for Cowboy Bebop (a 26 episode series with a heavy emphasis on music, as well as a completely new movie with a full soundtrack's worth of additional music) or Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex (representing 52 episodes and the Solid State Society movie) was much larger.

So yes, I think Macross Plus is some of her best work, but do I think it is uniquely brilliant compared to her other works? No.

But really, I'm not sure it matters. I have a hard time getting into the realm of trying to rank which soundtrack is best - all of them have their unique qualities, and also their own individual strengths.

-Elektrix

I've been one of the staunch holdouts here on MW who has loathed MacrossF for all its fanboy pandering. That much is no secret. But on a whim (or out of morbid curiosity, I don't know which), I "procured" a copy of the soundtrack...and man, did it make me sit up and take notice! The musical scores are honestly right up there with anything John Williams ever did. Now before anyone scoffs at my comparison, here's why I say this...

A great musical score is supposed to illicit an emotional response from the listener, evoking mental images of the action going on in the movie the score is overlayed on. When I watched the series the first time through, I largely didn't pay much attention to the background music because so much visual "eyecandy" was going on onscreen. I'm not talking about anything Ranka or Sheryl performed, but the background incidental music. Scores such as "The Target" or "Zero Hour" are absolutely incredible works of music! "The Target" paints mental images of epic dogfights in space, and even seems to have a similar cadence to Williams' "Imperial Attack" from SW Episode IV. "Zero Hour", to me, is an awesome piece because it was the music playing during the Quarter's captain's speech prior to the final battle. This particular score could have even been used in the original TV series or DYRL just prior to their respective final battles...at least in my opinion. It has an energy to it that invokes images of flight crews preparing for the worst yet carrying on with a heroic spirit.

I am amazed at how well-done the entire musical score for MacrossF was done. The soundtrack has more of a motion picture sound to it rather than a weekly TV series. Color me impressed...and a tad surprised.

I'm not really sure why it would come as a surprise that Yoko Kanno would turn out an excellent orchestral soundtrack, given her past work (Turn A Gundam, Macross Plus, even some of the orchestral and incidental stuff for Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne, etc.).

I don't see anything in there that could be the sort of news we're looking for.

"<!-- Citizens of the universe, please listen to our final songs! -->" seems fairly Macross-specific.

Isn't three CDs fairly common for TV shows...?

Just depends on the amount of music composed for a show. Cowboy Bebop got three main OST CD's (plus a 4th for the movie), as did Escaflowne, while I think Aquarion only had two. Sometimes it is longer shows that have more material (all the Gits: SAC stuff, Turn A Gundam, etc.). And I think Wolf's Rain only had two OST's as well.

I guess the question with Macross F would be how much material is left to make up a third OST.

-Elektrix

Btw, I've got to say, loved the finale, and seemed to wrap things up pretty well.

When I first heard Macross F would only be 25 episodes, I was kind of disappointed, hoping for a Gundamesque 50-episode series at least. But having seen the finale now, I'm pretty satisfied with it. I wouldn't mind a Dynamite 7-like follow-up OVA series (I'm assuming the movie will in fact be more of a compilation movie, or at least a retelling if it is more than that).

Are we just going to ignore his line of dialog in episode 24, where he says, "Soon... Soon I'll be able to meet you"?

Certainly that line can't be ignored when combined with what he said about how boundaries of both time and space would disappear or something like that. Seems like he probably might have in fact hoped to meet her, and i think the look on his face in this episode is just him realizing it wasn't going to happen.

Bah, that's because Alto poor piloting skill, look at Gamlin, he took a CF VF-11 and he beat the crap out of Varauta.

Yeah, but he's Top Gamlin; not exactly fair to compare him to anyone.

yeah but minmay songs are still light years better then the mylene jenius stuff.

LOVE WILL SAVE YOUR HEART

Yumewo e-gaku, ma-asu-guna hitomi-tashiyo

LOVE WILL SAVE THIS WORLD

Itsuka ki-ito, hikari wa-mieru-hazu

I think Mylene had her share of beautiful songs...... Pillow Dream, Sweet Fantasy particularly stand out IMO.

-Elektrix

Considering the amount of filler episodes they could easily re-edit and package the entire series as 3 hour movie for next summer.

Which episodes would you classify as "filler" episodes? Macross F has actually struck me as relatively filler-free compared to some series.

As it is though, I don't think a show has to be filler-heavy to be condensed into a 2-3 hour movie.

I support a Ranka victory.

I'm just saying, it's probably not going to be Sheryl.

This whole Macross has been about giving homages to what has gone before, and then turning it on its head.

Ranka is behind heading into the home stretch, that means one thing.

Victory.

Isn't she "behind" in the same way Minmei was around this point, when it was becoming clear that there was more going on with Hikaru and Misa?

-Elektrix

I'm working on a little photoshop project for myself and considering I do not understand nor read japanese kanji to read the production credits For Macross Frontier and since there is no english version of the Macross Frontier website the following I need for the credits are for:

Planning, Created By (Shoji Kawamori of course) Series supervisor:, Character design:, Mechanical Designers, Music, Director of Photography:, Chief Mechanical Designers animation designers:, Editor:, Sound Design:, Production Cooperation:, Executive producers:, Producers:, Director:, Produced by: (MBS I already know and some other studio) I would be appreciative if anyone could translate the info I need.

You can find some credits in English here: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encycloped...ime.php?id=8586

Ummm, there's only like 2 years separating Ranka and Alto..... she's 15, Alto is 17. Sheryl is also 17.

Ranka is the exact same age, 15, as Minmay was.

Hikaru was 16, compared to 17 for Alto. Hardly a significant difference.

The most "illegal" relationship would seemingly then be Hikaru (16) and Misa (19), if you wanted to get technical.

The potential sexual chemistry between Basara (21) and Mylene (14) was much weirder (although of course there wasn't anything to that really). Hell, Gamlin (19) and the more clear sexual tension between him and Mylene was weirder.

It's not like they're trying to pair her up with Ozma.

And frankly, there hardly seems to be a sexual relationship between Alto and Ranka. Clearly she's got a crush on him, and both probably enjoyed their kiss, but he definitely seems to treat her more like a little sister than anything.

Not sure what exactly is "lolicon" about a 17 year old and a 15 year old, or why you think this is particularly new (again, only a year's difference between Alto and Hikaru, and that relationship was back in the 80's).

And as far as the "sexualization" of young girls, this is hardly a new thing, either in anime or around the world. The French, the Americans, etc. all have plenty of examples in art, literature, etc. of sexualizing young girls.

I mean, think of where the "Lolita" term comes from, after all.

Ultimately, I don't see that they're trying to "pair her up" with Alto any more than they were trying to "pair Minmay up with Hikaru" - which is to say, it seems like Ranka clearly has a crush on Alto (a 15 year old with a crush on a 17 year old? And as 17 year old who might be tempted by that 15 year old? God, you're right, that NEVER happens in real life.), but the direction of the show seems to indicate Alto is more destined to end up with Sheryl Nome (who happens to be the same age as him).

The idea that this is somehow "new" to anime is pretty silly though; go back to Kimagure Orange Road back in the 80's........ Madoka was, I believe, about 16 years old, and was incredibly sexualized (she was modeled after Phoebe Cates for crying out loud) and that show had plenty of sexual artwork of her. Granted, she was not typically "lolicon" considering she looked more like a woman, but still, if you're going to focus on sexualizing of underage girls, she obviously fits the bill. And of course Hikaru was only 14 (or at least 2 years younger than Kyosuke and Madoka.... always been fuzzy on the timelines).

-Elektrix

when ranka and alto are in her room, Ranka mentions that there is no one around, she than backtracks because what she said may have sounded wrong

the subtitles come out like this"I trust you Alto(who would **** this alien abortion green haired ugly peice of **** anyway)(twi: this must be a suzu comment ;3 )"

Did gg edit that out or something and re-release it? I just downloaded it and watched it a half hour ago, and I only saw the "I trust you Alto" line, nothing in parentheses.

Huh?

Most of the people who worked on Macross were big Gundam FANS, but I bleieve that's as far as the connection goes...

Itano might be more of a direct connection (although nothing to do with story, of course).

What exactly was Alto going to do when he got into his VF-25 that would have been of any consequences? There were two Zentraedi factions in a standoff with reflex weaponry and Alto was going to do something about that in his lone VF-25? Do the new Q-Raus suck that bad where Alto could have super roboted them all?

I'm not sure if you're criticizing Alto himself here or the internal story logic. If your criticism is that Alto was acting rashly, and couldn't have actually accomplished something, fair enough - but is it in his character to just sit there and not try and do something, even if the odds are dramatically against him?

And as it is, Alto seemed to have a pretty good sense of what was going on there; he could see that many of the Zentraedi were already practically hypnotized by Ranka, and he also could have figured out that he might only have to worry about the leader at that point.

And of course, it's not like it would have been "Alto vs. everybody" even in the worst case scenario; the other Zentraedi would have also still probably been able to continue fighting if necessary.

But again, I'm not sure what the criticism is of this particular story element; it seems to fit into Alto's character that he would try and do something regardless, and as the story was set up, he seemed to have a fair shot of accomplishing something anyway - which, of course, he did, since he did only ultimately have to fight one Zentraedi, not the whole group. I mean, you're asking a question as if it's hypothetical, but we saw exactly what he was going to do and what he did in the episode; it's not like it's some mystery.

I'm thinking perhaps the question is, what was Alto planning on doing escaping before Ranka showed him (which he of course wouldn't have counted on); but again, this goes back to what we know about Alto's character. He wasn't going to just sit there and wait to be killed as a hostage, or let Sheryl or anyone else be killed; what was he going to do? Who knows? But I've seen plenty of military POW-type movies where someone escapes and tries to accomplish something rather than wait for the inevitable; I don't think the fact that Alto might not have been able to actually accomplish anything is necessarily a justification to criticize his choices, or the internal story logic, since it seems pretty consistent to me.

And again though, I'd go back to my previous point in that case; even if Ranka hadn't shown up, it wouldn't have been Alto by himself; he would have still been able to fight alongside one side. Given some of the other incredible things we've seen Macross ace pilots do, I don't find it that questionable. And hell, even within the logic of Macross F, we've seen him go solo against a Vajra, seen him go solo again to rescue Luca, etc.

Frankly, even if Ranka hadn't shown up to take care of most of the Zentraedi, I wouldn't have put anything past Alto.

-Elektrix

Man, have consideration for those who have not seen Dr Who yet. (I know its been more than 12 hours, but we're not talking about Macross.) I think the cliffhanger for Frontier was actually better than the Who one as there was ABSOLUTELY NO WAY anybody could have seen that coming.

Taksraven

Yeah, the one thing about the Who cliffhanger is that unless they have managed to somehow keep one of the biggest secrets around, the general assumption is that there will be some sort of trick or something so that it resolves itself without any long-term changes (the series and the episode have plenty of things they can use to resolve it). But as cliffhangers go, it's still pretty huge.

The Macross F cliffhanger is arguably bigger (that is, we can assume it isn't going to have a copout resolution like "It's a mirage" or something).

Either way, I'm just glad both series air next week; I couldn't take these two cliffhangers if I had to wait months for the resolution (I'm looking at you BSG).

OK, between Macross F and the latest Dr. Who episode that aired today, I'm going into massive-cliffhanger overload. Next week can't come soon enough.

I was catching up on some of the older posts on this board and I wanted to toss in my 2 cents. Earlier this month there was debate about sampling or copying from other pieces of work or artists. Yoko Kanno is a wonderful composer and producer. She knows what she is doing. If there was a chance of copying or sampling, she would need to contact the current rights holders for permission to use it in her work.

Case in point the composer for Macross Zero: Tracks VF-0 and Sky Shine clearly incorporate parts lifted out of the Rocketeer and Starship Troopers. Its only 3 to 4 seconds worth, but clearly borrowed from James Horner and Basil Poledouris, with their permission.

I made a post about this way back when the Zero OST Vol. 1 was released.

Now to the other reason I am writing today. When has the Lion song been heard? Is it going to be replacing Triangular as the theme? The listing for the Lion preorder lists it as the Macross F theme.

Every one of the Frontier CD's has been beyond my expectation and I hope they continue to be this way.

Are you serious, the composer for Macross Zero specifically requested and got permission from those composers? It's cool there was that contact, but it seems unnecessary to me (although I guess it's a professional courtesy).

Honestly, I don't see why people make such a big deal of it. There's a very very long musical tradition of even the great composers quoting themes from other composers/etc. I think it's always been seen for what it is; invoking another theme, just as quoting a famous line in a piece of literature has the same effect.

I think it only ever becomes problematic on music when it is plagiarism, trying to pass something off as an original composition (which musical quoting really doesn't do since you're inherently quoting a well-known theme).

-Elektrix

I was wondering what your definition of "full ripoff" is? Because if it fully copied from one of the themes melody-wise or arrangement-wise from the themes of PotC, I can't seem to find it. Perhaps you can point me which piece sounds so much like it?

This is the closest piece I could find in PotC that resembles Big Boys (by the way, it's by Klaus Badelt, not Hans Zimmer):

http://www.imeem.com/anhkiet29/music/03WZI..._and_elizabeth/

Big Boys has been changed enough to not be a plagiarism, so I don't know why it would be a "full ripoff". It's just an oh-so familiar and mainstream theme that Kanno decided to be influenced from (unlike in other soundtracks where she really copied both melody and arrangement)

Yeah, that's the one (Will & Elizabeth), although I was pretty sure there's another arrangement of that theme in at least one of the PotC soundtracks that sounds more directly like Big Boys. The one in the example you gave doesn't sound quite as much like it as some other bits of music from the movies (I'm not really up on the soundtracks so I can't quote it exactly).

I'd be fully willing to admit that "Big Boys" is probably more accurately described as something that is at least clearly riffing on that theme, and not really ripping it off. But I think the ultimate effect on the listener though is that it instantly recalls that theme.

I wouldn't have normally brought up the word "ripoff" except in response to Diagoro saying that the bit of the "Right Stuff" theme in "The Target" is something he would classify in the ripoff category, while I thought that was more closely an example of musical quoting (in the same way that Bill Conti himself more heavily "quoted" themes from Holst's "The Planets" in "The Right Stuff" soundtrack.

-Elektrix

There's something I didn't quite get in this episode.... at the beginning we see Ranka sending a mail to Alto, talking about his birthday and stuff.

And the next scene he says to Nana he hasn't heard from Ranka.

Huh ?

-Sergorn

I don't think she actually sent it - she is writing it, but then when her manager comes to get her I get the impression she turned the phone off without sending the message she was writing.

The other possibility was that Alto didn't check his messages, but Ranka's later voice mail she leaves seems to indicate she hadn't communicated anything to him prior, so she must not have sent it.

-Elektrix

Yeah, that was bothering me too -- it sounds so familiar, but I just can't place it! The orchestrations sound very similar David Arnold's Independence Day, but the melody isn't the same. There is one part around the 1:05 mark where the melody reminds me of Disney's Beauty and the Beast (the "tales as old as time, songs as old as rhyme" part), but it isn't really a ripoff or homage. Dang, just can't place it...

As for the use of The Right Stuff theme, I earlier classified that in ripoff territory...

As for everybody else's recommendation, I'll have to try and get Brain Powerd's OST then -- I thought Escaflowne was her greatest ever, but never watched Brain Powerd.

Yeah, I don't know what it is - hopefully someone will recognize it. It's going to be driving me nuts otherwise.

Regarding the Right Stuff theme, it seems less egregious to me - I don't know that I'd put it in ripoff territory, as it does come across much more as musical quoting. Also, given how Conti similarly used elements from Holst's Jupiter and Mars in the Right Stuff soundtrack, it seems like other composers should get a fair shot at his work too....

And either way, the part she quotes is distinctive but the more I listen to it the more I realize it isn't used that much (it's just such a powerful theme that it sticks in your mind).

The only one that really comes across as a full "ripoff" to me is "Big Boys" which much more directly uses themes from the Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack. It seems like something more than just quoting.

And yeah, definitely check out the Brain Powerd OST's - no need really to see the anime unless you're a Tomino completest. I think it really is true that BrainPowerd was like his testing ground or something for what he would end up doing much more successfully with Turn A Gundam.

Not sure if you mentioned whether you had the Turn A Gundam OST's but those are also definitely well worth it - some of YK's most beautiful music IMO. Same with the Arjuna soundtracks too actually.

Thanks for the translations!

Someone leaving Galaxy? I wonder who it is... If it's Alto, then it would have been, "popular actor/actress who was leaving for the Galaxy"?

The song already existed before she got to Frontier, so presumably it's not about Alto.