hga

[ De Gaulle's book recommendation; thanks! ]

As to the notion of prosecution equaling conviction - I think what you mean is the idea that the accused must prove his innocence rather than the accuser proving someone guilty.

I agree with your categorization of this as out of a "police state" - and in continental Europe it's pretty much the same and it totally sucks....

Do you have continental Europe statistics?

The combined "confession" and conviction rate in Japan was 99.96% as of a decade ago, 85% are "confessions", and judges who don't convict don't get promoted.

So what you suggest is not what I mean: in Japan, if the police decide "you're it", it's all over with extremely rare exceptions. So I suspect this is intended for its audience to be an offer Alto can't refuse, and, whoa, if Ozma springs him from that mess, it's another reason for him to choose SMS. Alto does not strike me as a man you should threaten.

Thankfully - I think that the ethos of Basara and Minmey are a much stronger "common law" amongst the Macross universe than any military fiat or dictate. In fact, one of the strengths of the show is that in spite of constant war and regimentation - the civilians and the civilian way of life and culture and individuality are the greatest "weapons" mankind has.

And the Macross military do really care about the civilians; they aren't taking 10 million of them into harm's way expecting to lose. Then again, they know in their bones they live in a dangerous galaxy, no option is "safe".

Misa Hayase makes this point to Hikaru in SDF M TV over a cup of tea - and it is a very wise point that th Macross saga makes to us

Indeed. Although line military stupidity and their politics was also a strong theme---well, at least up to the time they were annihilated in SDFM TV---and I wonder what the audience will be thinking about the tension between NUNS and SMS....

NUNS would seem to have gotten complacent, they got comprehensively blitzed, I doubt a single escort vessel on the attacked side of the fleet survived and I really wonder how many pilots and VF-171s they have left. At the very least, someone seems to know only SMS has a chance against the Vajra as of now.

- Harold

Note: might as well discuss things as of episode 2 now, I strongly suspect 3 is going to have enough critical dialog it's going require subs for most of us....

[...]

Prussian Military culture was built around the fact that a famous Prussian General was victorious precisely by not following orders, taking the initiative based on his own view of the situation.

However, remember that General DeGaulle faulted this very military culture - initiative over discipline - for the Germans' utter failure in World War I. DeGaulle (writing in his "The Enemies' House Divided" while a prisoner of war), noted that German officers were vying for big, romantic victories mirroring the "initiative" shown by their precursor - and that it was so ingrained in their military culture that it made the officers take unnecessary risks in vein attempts to conform to the traditions of Prussian Military innovation over discipline.

Hmmm, I've not studied WWI history to that level. My understanding is that the Germans did not suffer an "utter failure". E.g. they came very close to taking Paris in the initial thrust, they had logistics problems and panicked about the Russian attack and shifted too much there, and after the stalemate period began, when the French army went essentially into mutiny the Germans worked out a system based on small unit individual action and necessarily initiative and were winning ... and then we Americans threw so much mass into the war it was game over, sue for peace.

BTW, how strongly do you recommend The Enemies' House Divided? I must confess my impression of De Gaulle is not at all high: most of that is from biased and second hand info, although it's strongly colored by the one thing I really admire LBJ for. He ordered his diplomat on the point to reply to De Gaulle's demand that America totally withdraw its soldiers from France with a simple question, "Does that include the ones buried in the cemeteries?" De Gualle could not muster an answer.

However, WWII at the individual and small unit level does not to my knowledge and much greater level of study strongly argue your point.

But this is also a matter of degree and scope. We're talking about an individual making a snap decision that wasn't disobeying an order (only we presume a general law that you don't grab military hardware, which is not operative in combat with a man down), not a general trying to make "big, romantic victories" and ignoring the plan. That VF-25 would have likely been destroyed in place and he and Ranka killed if he hadn't done that.

(Come to think of it, Cathy's threat was MUCH worse than I realized. This is written for a Japanese audience, and they live in a police state where prosecution equals conviction. Her real offer was "we'll throw you in prison if you don't enlist". That has implications if she pushes Alto on this....)

My point is entirely at the level of individual and small unit initiative. I.e. it's the general's job to get the units in the right places (hmmm, they rather messed that up at the end of episode 2...) while it's the small unit leaders and their men who are then responsible for doing the right thing.

And Alto did the right thing, as she implicitly acknowledges with her offer immediately after.

The point here is that Chuui is not completely to be faulted for being a bitch here.

Crap - the fact that I'm making this argument means I'm probably going to start falling in love with her too

Well, I'm in no danger of that! Misa yes (given time and character development), Ranka, yes, Cathy, no way as of yet, not even any sign.

Doesn't her official character description ding her for inflexibility? That's ... not a small thing to say, especially in "anime combat" shows (albeit Macross gets a lot of this more right than most any other anime franchise).

- Harold

3. The Misa Hayes Wanna Be is nowhere as cute as Misa, and seventeen times more stubbornly by the book evil. But maybe for people back in 1982, Misa was equally "demonic" as this lady is for me now in Macross F.

Starting her attempt at recruiting Alto with a severe and pilot career ending threat was a BIG mistake and entirely pointless before she tried the carrot (see more below). And that firmly puts her in the "demonic" category for me. I don't think this is an '82 vs '08 perception difference, Misa was a lot better about using her authority.

Then again, I read the single biggest difference between the original and Frontier is that Earth's civilization has passed through a "singularity" that almost extinguished it. That left a very deep impression, such that they're still spending tremendous resources to disperse and strengthen themselves.

So unlike poor Hikaru, a man of peace, Alto starts out with the right attitudes. He wants to be a combat pilot. He reaction to seeing his city trashed (when he's hanging out on that red roof) is anger. He naturally recoils from the horrible fate of Gilliam ... but when duty calls, when he has no reason to believe he'll do any better than a pilot good enough to be in a not yet in service fighter, he "measures" himself and does his best, which is pretty good indeed. Note his fire discipline: sure, he emptied his gun pod (not much choice) but in at least three bursts including an initial test, and he doesn't waste any rounds on empty air (except to reaction time).

Similarly, we'd expect Cathy to have an harder attitude than Misa, she was born and raised after that singularity, and she's talking to Alto after a horrible battle, one that she knows was redeemed by SMS instead of her NUNS, and I suspect she knows the terrible losses NUNS took as well. So her being hard headed and hard hearted is no surprise.

In any event, while I fell in love with Misa from day one - this girl is not easy to fall in love with. I think it's obvious though that she'll end up falling for Ranka's brother. [ Expands on this theme. ]

I'd say ... maybe. The biggest problem I see is age difference. Ozma strikes me as being in his '30s at minimum, Cathy in her '20s. This is [NOT, see below] reinforced by their ranks (by my ear, Imperial Army ranks, at 3:57 in AiA I-Z version, where I take Mikhail to initially call out to Ozma by rank, then Gilliam by rank and name):

Ozma: Taichou, "literally Team Senior, meaning Team leader" [ thanks to Shun for correction ]

Gilliam: Taii, Captain

Cathy: Chuui, Lieutenant

So it's possible, war can result in a lot of odd outcomes, especially if this one gets really dire which it shows some signs of, but I wouldn't yet say it's likely.

There's also the issue of what's going to put them in enough proximity to get together? Unless she's seconded to SMS (say, because they're the only ones who can stop the Vajra, which seems to be realized by the end of episode 2 (then again, how many NUNS pilots and planes are left???)) I don't see it.

4. Pilot Arrogance. Come on - Alto did a swell job in his Valkyrie. Those guys criticizing him for being an amateur are just jealous. [ Roy in contrast. ] Ranka's brother needs to chill out here and give Alto the benefit of the doubt.

There's one big thing that's messing with everyone's head and heart: survivor guilt. Alto acutely feels it, and I'm pretty sure Ozma is (probably all those who knew Gilliam well, but not necessarily Alto's classmates).

Also I get the strong impression Ozma wants to keep the otoko hime-sama far away from his hime, who has an entirely natural and very strong attraction to Alto post-rescue.... Ozma is doomed to fail in the next episode , but then again Alto may get knocked off his pedestal (in her eyes).

I agree with his decision not to let Alto pilot the Valkyrie into battle - but slugging him was stupid. The guy saved your sister dude. [ Roy again. ] Ranka's brother is kind of a poser. He plays Fire Bomber in his car and drives recklessly, but he also lies to his sister and slugs the guy who saved her life - and the honor of his squad. Looser.

Yes to both of the first points, but Ozma is being pulled in many different directions right then. But poser or looser? I don't read the former at all, and not the latter yet; for one thing, does Ozma feel like an officer to you all? More like a senior NCO to me, e.g. officers aren't really supposed to dispense "NCO justice" (the punch).

But ultimately that was a stupid move. SMS and NUNS are going to need all the good pilots they can get, and Alto has demonstrated that he has a bunch of things you just can't teach, or really know about a pilot until he's in combat. E.g. you'll note he lost his concentration/situational awareness only once, when the yellow Vajra blasted the roof and Alto subsequently stopped dodging and let it shoot off his VF-25's arms. He only clutched up once, when the yellow was about to fire it's energy canon---not at all bad for a "newbie". If Cathy hadn't led off with the stick and could offer a VF-25, SMS making the sale to Alto could be very hard....

[ Sheryl. ]

6. Ranka [ we agree 100% ] ... Who just happens to sing better than Sheryl Nome?!?!? Er - yeah - I don't get that part....

Why not? It's well established in general anime that idol singers (which I'm not sure Sheryl is per se) are more luck than talent. And no matter how good Sheryl is now, that doesn't mean there isn't someone else out there with more raw talent. And we know Ranka's voice (and maybe more) is very special in some plot related way.

9. The Military Siezing Alto [ Well discussed and answered. ] But I'll give the Misa Hayes Wannabe this much: at least she asked Alto the obvious question - would he like to join the military - instead of giving him a black eye for saving his sister.

Yes and no. She first threatened him with a grave injustice. When Alto made his decision to jump into the abandoned VF-25, there was nothing better to do, and he had ample reason to believe he could pilot it. Plus she violated about the most important rule that successful military cultures have (but not apparently NUNS): taking the initiative when that is the right thing is to be rewarded, especially if you succeed.

There's a story of a Prussian officer who was sacked after an exercise where he let an allied unit get "destroyed" because he was following orders to stay put. In fact, you can score how successful a military is likely to be by how far down they push responsibility and initiative; for an army it had better be down to the NCOs.

[ Look in previous postings for where Sheryl got the pics and what she's searching for. ]

In any case, if I were Alto - I'd say "screw you" to the SMS and join the regular military - and give those SMS guys a run for their money.

See above; if I were Alto a very minimal even non-verbal apology of sorts would fix up things a lot easier than how Cathy screwed up her offer. NUNS offers injustice that's senseless and substantially more dangerous, plus while Alto doesn't know the details, it probably hasn't escaped his attention that NUNS failed to stop the Vajra while SMS apparently did....

Plus now that he's flown a VF-25 in combat, how likely is he to want to go "down" to a VF-171? I thought it was pretty interesting that Ozma asked him about how it was to fly it ... and how Alto doesn't answer. Alto wants to fly for a purpose, I suspect, not just fly a hot plane per se. Especially after what he's seen and experienced, what it means to be a combat pilot is starkly real to him, and he wants to do the right thing for the right reasons.

[...] But yeah - I guess it's more realistic that if a circus acrobat asked to pilot a combat fighter during an alien invasion he would probably get punched in the nose.

Problem is, he's now WAY past being a "circus acrobat", e.g. he's got infinitely more combat experience than his classmates. He does need in-type training for the special features of the VF-25, combat group flying plus learning about the members of whatever group he ends up in.

Note the mutual communications screwup on Ozma and Alto's part when they first talk: Ozma should have asked "Where's the pilot who was in your Valkyrie?" and Alto should have realized what Ozma was asking, but the pressure of the situation makes this OK, especially since it wasn't at that moment an important thing. In fact, I take quite a few points off of Ozma for asking that once he realized Ranka was right there; fortunately Ozma got into the groove and they got in sync in short order.

Alto can't responsibly go into combat until he learns the above, but that's not what Ozma said let alone did. But I suspect Ozma will reconsider, say once they have Gilliam's VF-25 fixed but have no better pilot for it.

[ You don't want Frontier to win the Macross 7 "8 episodes of mystery monster attacks" award . ]

I like shows either way, mysterious enemies or ones we know well from the start. I haven't watched Zero yet, and couldn't force myself to watch very much of 7, so this is a nice change of pace from SDFM/DYRL, and the lower episode budget (compared to 7) forced by today's economics suggest we'll find out soon enough.

I really like the slow and subtle exposition on the Vajra we're getting.

One of my questions is just how much does anyone know about them? Frontier going into harm's way does not seem to be a surprise at all, yet everyone is at a near total loss in dealing with them.

Ozma realizes this no later than the Itano circus inside the city, but I wonder if he did before, especially since he and Gilliam were able to take out some yellows and hadn't really had a chance to fail with the reds. If the only way to deal with the reds is a CQB knife to the body or the "Ranka Defense", this is going to get very messy.

Hmmm, you know, that could be an explanation for Mikhail's sniper rifle: at short range, the way police vs. military snipers tend to work, maybe he'll be able to shoot around their outer arm/leg/whatever armor and get a hit on the vitals. The reds are very adverse to coming under fire and always position their armor between it and their body.

And speaking of tropes, congratulations to Alto for thinking things through in combat and successfully pulling off a Wronski Feint thanks to the GERWALK mode's leg thrusters; it was indeed nice to see a lot of that mode used. Too bad the yellow was tough enough to fly through N-3 or so stories of the skyscraper, but it was worth a try, and this made that sequence mecha porn to a purpose .

Congrats to the crew on this one!

Indeed; I haven't felt like this since watching the original (as Robotech) or DYRL; "Macross is back".

- Harold