Andor (Star Wars: Andor) - Disney+

[pengbuzz]

On 5/8/2023 at 12:07 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's not exactly riveting TV, but it was character development for a character who turned out to actually have a not insignificant role in the story. It helped clarify what drove Syril Karn to be the starcharse he is and why he's so desperate to regain his lost status.

IMO it makes him a more believable character than if he were just some jack booted idiot. His desire for power and control comes from having had very little power or control over his life when he was still living with his parents. Mundane evil can be far more creepy and unsettling than the kind of Saturday morning cartoon show villains that normally populate the Star Wars universe in the form of the Sith Lords.

In other words: they come from somewhere, and there's a reason why they're the way they are.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

In other words: they come from somewhere, and there's a reason why they're the way they are.

It's the reason Andor is hands down my favorite of the Disney+ Star Wars releases.

Many of the characters are normal people going about their workaday lives until they become inextricably caught-up in the business of the growing rebel movement.  These are the people who got involved in the struggle because it took something from them personally and we not only get to see what that was, we get to see what the normal life they lost was like too.  It makes the galaxy feel a lot bigger and more lived-in than stories like The Mandalorian, Obi-Wan Kenobi, or The Book of Boba Fett that only visit a handful of familiar places or just focus on the "exciting" locales full of colorful rogues and ne'er-do-wells.  It serves to remind the audience that the galaxy isn't just where the war happens... people live there.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Seto Kaiba

[Dynaman]

One of the best shown parts is how the rebellion gets a foothold, Empires and dictatorships almost always end up falling due to the back stabbing that goes along with them - and the Empire as shown in Andor is that on steroids.  All the Imperials are more interested in growing their own little kingdom then doing the job with the exception of the one female imperial, maybe...

[pengbuzz]

9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's the reason Andor is hands down my favorite of the Disney+ Star Wars releases.

Many of the characters are normal people going about their workaday lives until they become inextricably caught-up in the business of the growing rebel movement.  These are the people who got involved in the struggle because it took something from them personally and we not only get to see what that was, we get to see what the normal life they lost was like too.  It makes the galaxy feel a lot bigger and more lived-in than stories like The Mandalorian, Obi-Wan Kenobi, or The Book of Boba Fett that only visit a handful of familiar places or just focus on the "exciting" locales full of colorful rogues and ne'er-do-wells.  It serves to remind the audience that the galaxy isn't just where the war happens... people live there.

They live there, and the effects of that war ripple (and in many cases outright tear viciously) through their lives. We also see the cruelty and coldness of an Empire that doesn't care about those they govern, as well as the damage and harm they cause in the manipulation and maneuvering that those in power engage in to attain and maintain their little "kingdoms". This is another reason I think it's wise not to engage too much of the "alien cultures" in this series a s much as possible: so that people can relate to the story and have a personal interest in it.

[Roy Focker]

After facing criticism Gilroy has ceased all of his producing duties of Andor.

[Mog]

Need to clarify that this is due to the current writers’ strike.

He stated that he would cease all writing-related duties.  Got hit with criticism and then decided to cease all non-writing duties as well.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, Roy Focker said:

After facing criticism Gilroy has ceased all of his producing duties of Andor.

56 minutes ago, Mog said:

Need to clarify that this is due to the current writers’ strike.

He stated that he would cease all writing-related duties.  Got hit with criticism and then decided to cease all non-writing duties as well.

Yeah...context.
Tony Gilroy is both Executive Producer (i.e. showrunner) and writer for this series. Due to the strike, productions have all but stopped worked (either in solidarity with the WGA or due work being unable to progress due to writing changes).

[Seto Kaiba]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/andor-tony-gilroy-scabbing-accusations-strike-1235483978/

For extra clarity.  

Tony Gilroy's caught in the middle because he has contractually obligated non-writing duties as a producer and he asserts he's stopped all writing contributions, but the WGA is rightly pointing out that the script is only really finished when the show's in the can thanks to the thousand-and-one minor edits, refinements, and changes in stage direction that get made in production.  So they see Gilroy's attempt to balance his duties as a writer on strike and a producer as crossing the picket line and Disney using those contracts to try to compel writers working in other capacities to perform actions prohibited during a strike.  Gilroy has, in response to that argument, agreed to suspend his work as a producer as well in solidarity with the rest of the WGA.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Seto Kaiba

[Duke Togo]

I both support his actions and worry about what this means for the show.

[Roy Focker]

29 minutes ago, Duke Togo said:

I both support his actions and worry about what this means for the show.

It means they'll either use a less capable producer and we'll have to hope for the best or the show will be put on hold. Disney might even decide just do a Bat Girl and just can the show entirely.

[frankell05]

Disney is taking advantage of the economy and lack of general work available in the entertainment industry at the moment to try to force writers and everyone else into more shitty deals that make life miserable for everyone working on the film industry. they are putting targeted ads on facebook to make vulnerable industry workers hate the writers to take away their support. Gilroy choosing to step away from all work is commendable. Makes me like the dude even more than I already did, and I really love that mofo. 

[Mog]

And if Disney does try to move forward without Gilroy, it’ll probably blow up in their face. . . which is something they don’t need with Star Wars slipping and stumbling the way it’s been.

[sh9000]

I'd watch a Patterson cut.

[Seto Kaiba]

Last available news is that, like House of the Dragon and Lord of the Rings: the Rings of Power, Andor is moving ahead with production of its second season during the strike.

Presumably since the scripts are "done", Disney is feeling somewhat more confident than they ordinarily would be if they had to conclude the story using non-union writers.  Disney's reportedly been sending notice to its writer-producers that the WGA strike does not excuse them from their contractual obligations in non-writing capacities and attempting to order them back to work.

It seems that once again the studios and the WGA are staring each other down waiting to see who blinks first... and with the undeserved confidence so many people have in new tech like generative AI, I kind of expect this to drag out a while.

[Mog]

In other words, greed makes companies be a-holes.

[TangledThorns]

46 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Last available news is that, like House of the Dragon and Lord of the Rings: the Rings of Power, Andor is moving ahead with production of its second season during the strike.

Presumably since the scripts are "done", Disney is feeling somewhat more confident than they ordinarily would be if they had to conclude the story using non-union writers.  Disney's reportedly been sending notice to its writer-producers that the WGA strike does not excuse them from their contractual obligations in non-writing capacities and attempting to order them back to work.

It seems that once again the studios and the WGA are staring each other down waiting to see who blinks first... and with the undeserved confidence so many people have in new tech like generative AI, I kind of expect this to drag out a while.

It can go badly just like last time, especially for the writers themselves. Ended up making for a good South Park episode tho!

 

 

 

[azrael]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Last available news is that, like House of the Dragon and Lord of the Rings: the Rings of Power, Andor is moving ahead with production of its second season during the strike.

House of the Dragon S2 scripts were done before May 1. However, if they have to do reshoots, this will delay things if they need to rewrite dialog. 
LotR: Rings of Power is moving forward with non-dialog shoots and with what they have already written. The EPs are also part of the writing team so they are not participating on any level of production. It sounds like they prepared for this eventuality so they prepped as much as they could. Again, same problem if they want to do reshoots.

Andor  is in the same boat as the other 2. They are continuing production with what they got. But it sounds like they are maybe just a little more behind the other 2 shows just due to scheduling so 🤷‍♂️

While shows can continue in some sense, the Directors and Producers union contracts expire on June 30th, 2023. Whatever is not done by then may come to a grinding halt in 2 months.

[Big s]

I have a feeling that this writers strike won’t last too long. It may put a few short delays on some shows and films, but there are still many that were already near finished that just needed things like vfx or sound. And there are some that already have the script done, and if reshoots with rewrites are needed those may just happen after the strike is finished. 
I think the place where production is really affected by this is with things like late night comedy, especially with so much going on and they can’t do their take on what’s happening. But to be honest I really don’t watch much of that anyway 

[sh9000]

I doubt that Disney will continue season 2 without Gilroy.

[Duke Togo]

Andor has been Emmy nominated for outstanding drama series. As it should be

[Seto Kaiba]

Glad to hear it. If any Star Wars series deserves an Emmy, it's Andor.

[sh9000]

Well deserved.

Edited July 12, 2023 by sh9000

[TangledThorns]

1 hour ago, Duke Togo said:

Andor has been Emmy nominated for outstanding drama series. As it should be

 

25 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Glad to hear it. If any Star Wars series deserves an Emmy, it's Andor.

 

+1 Best new series I watched all of last year.

[Tking22]

Such a shame Andor got such low viewership, Obi-Wan and Book of Boba seemed to have really scared a lot of people away. I get it, comparing Andor, a character that died in a spin-off movie, to god damn Boba Fett and Obi-Wan, it seemed the bigger names would've delivered on the bigger better series but nope, complete opposite, that's absolutely crazy that's the reality of the situation. 

[Big s]

34 minutes ago, Tking22 said:

Such a shame Andor got such low viewership, Obi-Wan and Book of Boba seemed to have really scared a lot of people away. I get it, comparing Andor, a character that died in a spin-off movie, to god damn Boba Fett and Obi-Wan, it seemed the bigger names would've delivered on the bigger better series but nope, complete opposite, that's absolutely crazy that's the reality of the situation. 

It had an unfortunate stink around it from the previous shows, but it also got bad word of mouth due to the bad first two episodes. It’s hard for a show to pick up an audience that gave up before the show started getting good in the third one.

[Seto Kaiba]

50 minutes ago, Tking22 said:

Such a shame Andor got such low viewership, Obi-Wan and Book of Boba seemed to have really scared a lot of people away. I get it, comparing Andor, a character that died in a spin-off movie, to god damn Boba Fett and Obi-Wan, it seemed the bigger names would've delivered on the bigger better series but nope, complete opposite, that's absolutely crazy that's the reality of the situation. 

Yeah, it's a shame that Andor did not get the love it deserve when it first debuted.

It had to work a lot harder for what it got too, since it's the only Disney+ Star Wars series that's running on the strength of its narrative rather than the sheer quantity of fan service it delivers. As a casual viewer, shows like The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett have little or nothing to offer because they require their viewer to be invested in the expanded universe mythos of the Mandalorian people and of Boba Fett in particular. If you don't have that background then you're left wondering why they based two entire shows on a guy who has maybe 30 words of actual dialogue and is basically just a less inept stormtrooper. Obi-Wan isn't a lot different in that regard, since it's clearly counting on fans being very excited to see Ewan McGregor return to the role of Obi-Wan Kenobi in order to compensate for a plot that could best be described as unnecessary. Andor was able to do so much more with its story than any of the other shows because it's not wrapped up in established lore and instead is focusing on building a compelling narrative around new characters.

I am so so glad that it's been nominated for an Emmy. Not just because it's richly deserved, but because I hope it'll set the series up as an example of how to tell a compelling Star Wars story without having to lean so heavily on pre-existing characters and events.

[Mog]

Little annoyed that Stellan Skarsgård didn’t get a nom for his portrayal of Luthen.

[Dynaman]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As a casual viewer, shows like The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett have little or nothing to offer because they require their viewer to be invested in the expanded universe mythos of the Mandalorian people and of Boba Fett in particular.

Nope.  My wife and I have zippo knowledge of the Expanded universe and love The Mandalorian (Bobba Fett's show not so much).

[mechaninac]

7 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Nope.  My wife and I have zippo knowledge of the Expanded universe and love The Mandalorian (Bobba Fett's show not so much).

The Mandalorian, seasons 1 and 2 at any rate, harkens back to old westerns; that's what made it good, if not all that original, so it is easy to appreciate because it feels like old-school SW.  Unfortunately, season 3 became infected with a lot of the same drivel and poor writing that ruined, depending on your point of view, Obi Wan and BoBF... they better wise up, or the drop in viewership will only get worse.  Out of all the Disney Star Wars live action series, Andor is the only one consistently well written... it's almost as if Andor was produced by an entirely different studio, so it is a damn shame it got hamstrung by the garbage before it.

[Big s]

I don’t think that Mando was too hard to get into. I’ve never watched the cg clone wars or other cg starwars shows, mostly because the style was too ugly for me to look at. But even though things may be hinted at, it doesn’t seem to matter at least for the first couple seasons. I still haven’t seen the third one, all the talk kinda turned me away from it, but I sort of liked the show when it was more episode by episode rather than trying to be a connective story.
Disney rarely has good writing that can handle a long narrative. 
Andor had a terrible first couple episodes, but the writers got better as the show went on, even if there were still things to nitpick here and there and way too much cereal.

[technoblue]

I think the problem with Boba Fett is that the story lost track of its main character. There was so much potential to have Boba resurface and wrestle control of the Hutt’s former territories on Tatooine. To make the show focus on discovering who Boba was post Sarlac, and show his upward climb within the Tatooine underground.

We even got the beginning of that story with that whole bit with the sand people. Alas, instead of going up from there, we got another vehicle to plant the seeds for Dave Filoni’s expanded live action characters.

But don’t get me wrong. I enjoyed seeing that fan service. It’s a conflicted joy, though, because I also understand how it did rob the spotlight from Boba and his crew. It’s unfortunate in hindsight when I think about it.

The Mandalorian, in comparison, has a story that shows more of an organic evolution of its main characters and that makes the fan service in this show more palatable to me. Mando is just some random bounty hunter in the beginning, and his purpose beyond that was in retrieving stolen beskar with a deep-seated loyalty to his culvert. After a bounty put him face-to-face with Grogu, he gained a new mission. And after he completed that mission he discovered a new purpose when he decided to become Grogu’s guardian. Like Big S notes above, it was easy to get into.

The parts with the other Mandalorians that come later in the show—even though it is more Filoni fan service—doesn’t feel as out of place to me. It will be interesting if we see Mando and Grogu continue with their aid to bring a unified Manadalore back into Star Wars canon. It will also be interesting to see if the dark saber is reforged or if its story is finally at an end. If the creative team is able to wrap up the fan service-y hooks, I am quite curious to see what new things they might add to Mando’s story

Edited July 13, 2023 by technoblue

[Bolt]

I'm in total agreement with you @technoblue .

And I'm rooting for another great season of Andor. By far the most under appreciated of the SW shows. While being amongst the best. 

[Mog]

The biggest problem with BOBF was they nerfed the character.  Even when compared to the Boba that showed up in Mandalorian, Boba in his own series was just too soft.

They never should have went with the kinder, gentler daimyo idea.

Have him want to change things and do things a little different.  But make him a dude you think twice about crossing.

It’s why I’m nervous about Disney taking Marvel’s Daredevil and Kingpin and softening them up compared to their portrayals in the Netflix series.

Back to Andor though, Luthen’s been a breath of fresh air for Star Wars.  Here’s a guy who does very questionable things, knows he’s doing questionable/immoral things, but convinces himself he’s doing it all for “the cause.”

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, Mog said:

The biggest problem with BOBF was they nerfed the character.  Even when compared to the Boba that showed up in Mandalorian, Boba in his own series was just too soft.

They never should have went with the kinder, gentler daimyo idea.

Yeah. I agree for the most part. After what happened to the sand people tribe that took him in, I was waiting for Boba to unleash a fury on the civilized parts of Tatooine. It might have been an interesting way to grow the character, but it was left in the realm of what could have been.

1 hour ago, Mog said:

Back to Andor though, Luthen’s been a breath of fresh air for Star Wars.  Here’s a guy who does very questionable things, knows he’s doing questionable/immoral things, but convinces himself he’s doing it all for “the cause.”

Luthen and his young protégé at the antique shop very much seem like an end justifies the means duo, with Luthen more willing to ride the line and risk safety and protocol.

Where Andor is the unwilling protagonist who finds himself tripping into certain situations, Luthen has full agency but is also characterised as the antihero. I like how Skarsgård plays the character grey so that it’s difficult at times to tell if his allegiances are true.

[Mog]

I don’t mind the idea of Boba wanting to better the lives of fellow bounty hunters and the lives of his underlings.

BUT there’s a way to do it without looking weak.  Shoot a kneecap of the mayor’s admin. guy, as a “warning” for all the obvious disrespect.  When he hires those Vespa kids, make it that he’s paying off their debt and that they now owe him and have to work for him.  Or else.