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A Discussion - Buying Multiple Pre-Orders To Sell To Pay For Units Being Kept


sqidd
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1 hour ago, HardlyNever said:

We can see the current stock-count in the API at various sites.  It is an interesting discussion in itself, and how they are different. but it seems like HLJ and AmiAmi have around 100-200 (like you said).

NY, of course, plays a different game were they seem to never have their stock go down, because they do the thing where they secure it from other vendors/sources, at a mark-up.

Basically all those places have per-customer limits of 1 or 2, so you'd have to send a wave of bots all at once (with different accounts ofc), and all try to get in and secure more orders.

Yep, basically it doesn't seem like a viable thing unless you are developing a bot for personal use. The Chinese market is not only botting but also lining up in person to snatch up all the stock. The NY numbers should be about the same as far as available units for their initial preorder discount. I came up with the number as an estimate based on order numbers for earliest to last known sucessful orders.

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1 hour ago, Slave IV said:

Yep, basically it doesn't seem like a viable thing unless you are developing a bot for personal use. The Chinese market is not only botting but also lining up in person to snatch up all the stock. The NY numbers should be about the same as far as available units for their initial preorder discount. I came up with the number as an estimate based on order numbers for earliest to last known sucessful orders.

The people who really seem to have this bot thing figured out are the ones who go after high-end sneakers. Someone posted this story in the 1/48 DX thread during PO Madness for the Hikaru 1S: https://www.highsnobiety.com/2016/04/27/sneaker-bots-how-do-they-work/.

The talk about latency due to geographic distance (which is true) reminds me of front-running and high frequency trading on the stock market. It's a fascinating rabbit hole to go down. The best and most accessible explanation of it that I've come across in recent years is the "Magic Shoebox" episode of Michael Lewis' podcast "Against the Rules": https://atrpodcast.com/episodes/the-magic-shoebox-s1!33643.

If bot-runners in China ever start operating like high frequency traders on Wall Street, we're screwed....

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1 hour ago, Anasazi37 said:

The people who really seem to have this bot thing figured out are the ones who go after high-end sneakers. Someone posted this story in the 1/48 DX thread during PO Madness for the Hikaru 1S: https://www.highsnobiety.com/2016/04/27/sneaker-bots-how-do-they-work/.

The talk about latency due to geographic distance (which is true) reminds me of front-running and high frequency trading on the stock market. It's a fascinating rabbit hole to go down. The best and most accessible explanation of it that I've come across in recent years is the "Magic Shoebox" episode of Michael Lewis' podcast "Against the Rules": https://atrpodcast.com/episodes/the-magic-shoebox-s1!33643.

If bot-runners in China ever start operating like high frequency traders on Wall Street, we're screwed....

Good info, I’ll have to check it out sometime. China is in full on capitalistic mode right now so once their population mostly gets the same kind of buying power we have in the US, everyone is screwed one way or another if things stay as they are now. Just look at what this population has done to the world and multiply that times 6-7, lol!

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4 hours ago, Anasazi37 said:

The people who really seem to have this bot thing figured out are the ones who go after high-end sneakers. Someone posted this story in the 1/48 DX thread during PO Madness for the Hikaru 1S: https://www.highsnobiety.com/2016/04/27/sneaker-bots-how-do-they-work/.

The talk about latency due to geographic distance (which is true) reminds me of front-running and high frequency trading on the stock market. It's a fascinating rabbit hole to go down. The best and most accessible explanation of it that I've come across in recent years is the "Magic Shoebox" episode of Michael Lewis' podcast "Against the Rules": https://atrpodcast.com/episodes/the-magic-shoebox-s1!33643.

If bot-runners in China ever start operating like high frequency traders on Wall Street, we're screwed....

Interesting indeed. Another rabbit hole to go down is state sponsored hacking. Very interesting stuff. The book Countdown To Zero Day is fantastic. There is a documentary too, but it's not nearly as good as the book is.

https://www.amazon.com/Countdown-Zero-Day-Stuxnet-Digital/dp/0770436196/ref=sr_1_1?crid=25NW784M07MWP&keywords=zero+day+book&qid=1567396311&s=gateway&sprefix=zero+day%2Caps%2C162&sr=8-1

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Honestly I sometimes buy 2 or more Valkyrie of each to keep one and sell the rest later.  Is there a problem with that?  Well you will get negative opinions from some people but it really doesn't matter in the long run because you know what they say about opinions, "a-holes are like opions everyone has one".

On a serious note, I did purchase 2x each 2000 Valkyrie 1/55 reissues and I did that so I could have one set for "free" later on.  You wouldn't believe how much those valks sold for, especially the Max and Millia unopened and as-advertised.  I also had one fresh VF-1J that was not only mint/unopened but it was still in its original shipping bubble pack from whoever imported it probably Spidey Jerusalem, not sure if I purchased any from anyone other than him.  It's basically business and it isn't illegal. Immoral or unethical?  Not really.  It isn't like we are keeping anyone from purchasing toys when we aren't insiders and we are purchasing through the same exact channels everyone else has access to.

We only wish we had direct access to the manufacturers so we could make more profit, but the majority of us don't.

Anyway good discussion and feel free to flame me and whatnot, it won't make any difference :)  What's done is done.  I own 20x VE-1 and VT-1 Bandai Hi-Metal R, an "opinion" isn't going to make a dent in that at all lol.

Actually come to think of it I just remembered by looking at this VF-1D that I own 10 of those.

Edited by rocketblast
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When it comes to things that are available at release, like Arcadia stuff and most HMR I have no issue with it.

However, when it's stuff like the DX VF-1, which is between difficult and impossible to get a pre-order for, or at release, then you're actively competing with people who want one for their personal collections.

So, it really depends on the figure and how easy it is to get one.

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10 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

When it comes to things that are available at release, like Arcadia stuff and most HMR I have no issue with it.

However, when it's stuff like the DX VF-1, which is between difficult and impossible to get a pre-order for, or at release, then you're actively competing with people who want one for their personal collections.

So, it really depends on the figure and how easy it is to get one.

That's where I have decided to draw my "moral line in the sand". I'll get a couple of Arcadia and HMR type extras and if later down the road they go up in value I'll sell a few for the going rate (I got six VF-0D's for example). As far as the DX's go from what I'm hearing that's a self solving problem. I probably won't be able to get in on the pre orders anyway. I'm going to be the one paying over retail because other companies/people snapped them up. If I do manage to get a pre order in I'll get as many as I can. If I sell some of them, I sell them at cost. I don't mind paying it forward. 

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I do try and secure at least 2 of the DX VF-1, but for both Max and Hikaru 1S I only managed 1 each. The second is just in case I need to return one due to defects, and if both are good I was planning to sell at-cost to a forum member.

Still might manage to get a second on release, but I’m not super hopeful on the Hikaru.

Managed 3 of the Hikaru 1J, but 2 are mine and one was for a friend.

Edited by Sanity is Optional
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10 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

Basically we need to abolish the bourgeois institution of speculation, seize the means of toy production and insure equitable distribution of Valkyries to all based on need.  

I was thinking something more like ThunderDome.

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3 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Honestly, scalpers are not really hurting anyone with Arcadia toys.

Now when it comes to Bandai figures, on the other hand...

Here here. If by any chance you didn't PO an Arcadia and have to pay marked up toy, I would say it is your fault. No one, again, no one should have any trouble preordering Arcadia stuff. 

 

 

Ohh Bandai. Let us not even start how they manage their toy lines

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5 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

 

Now when it comes to Bandai figures, on the other hand...

I don't actually blame/judge people that are scalping DX stuff. It's not something that fits with my personal ethics, but I certainly don't see it as wrong or inherently amoral. It's free market Capitalism. In my opinion people that get really bent out of shape over scalpers (not annoyed with them, really hate them) need to decide if they're a Capitalist or not. You don't get to call yourself a Capitalist and then pick and choose when that system works or doesn't work for you.

Capitalism is the worst for of economy, except all of the others that have been tried" 

-I ripped a Winston Churchill quote off for this 

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So long as you're not buying up limited items, preventing others from buying them at normal prices, I have no problem with scalping to buy more WHEN the demand goes up.  For instance, if you wanted to buy 20 Yamato VF-11B's when HLJ was trying to get rid of them under $200 and sell them later for $500, no problem with that.  That's smart business.  One could have done the same with the Arcadia VF-0S that HLJ had on sale for a couple months.

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1 hour ago, CeramicDragon said:

You

Explain to me in detail how I'm a scalper. Here is a hint. Actually read all of my posts first.

Two saying come to mind when I read your post. Two sayings I use as guild lines on how I talk on the internet:

-People can be anyone they want to be on the internet. It's too bad most people decide to be a........

-Never say anything on the internet that you wouldn't say to someone if they were standing in front of you.

Edited by sqidd
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11 hours ago, sqidd said:

I don't actually blame/judge people that are scalping DX stuff. It's not something that fits with my personal ethics, but I certainly don't see it as wrong or inherently amoral. It's free market Capitalism. In my opinion people that get really bent out of shape over scalpers (not annoyed with them, really hate them) need to decide if they're a Capitalist or not. You don't get to call yourself a Capitalist and then pick and choose when that system works or doesn't work for you.

Capitalism is the worst for of economy, except all of the others that have been tried" 

-I ripped a Winston Churchill quote off for this 

No such thing as nuance huh?

There are plenty of things about capitalism that are inherently bad, greed and what people are willing to do to one another do in the pursuit of more come to mind. I mean, just look at the income gap between the truly wealthy and those that can barely afford to live.

Do I enjoy the benefits of living in today's capitalist society? Yes, absolutely.

Are there things about said society that are amazing? Yes, absolutely. 

Are there things about said society that are just plain ugly? Yes, absolutely. 

4 hours ago, sqidd said:

Explain to me in detail how I'm a scalper. Here is a hint. Actually read all of my posts first.

Two saying come to mind when I read your post. Two sayings I use as guild lines on how I talk on the internet:

-People can be anyone they want to be on the internet. It's too bad most people decide to be a........

-Never say anything on the internet that you wouldn't say to someone if they were standing in front of you.

To be honest, I can easily see how a person could draw that conclusion based on the things that you post. And I read waaaay more than I post. 

That doesn't mean that you will, or will not do a "thing", just that I could see how someone could draw the conclusion. I'm sure one or two here and there have formed opinions about me, right or wrong there's no skin off of my nose.

But you opened up the conversation, don't be mad at folks for forming an opinion. No need to go full-on "say it to my face" to make your point. :lol:

-b.

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21 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Honestly, scalpers are not really hurting anyone with Arcadia toys.

Now when it comes to Bandai figures, on the other hand...

I tend to disagree on the basis that no Bandai valk is rare.  I emailed back and forth with a guy a few years back and he pretty much explained the entire thing.  Without going into too much detail, there are people out there that buy all of 1 item on ebay and keep buying it til the price gets artificially inflated.  This guy in particular did that with all the ""rare"" (not rare at all!) 1/55 valkyries and he was hoarding dozens of them, only to later on sell them all back on ebay because his wife wanted him to make room in his home office.

It all comes down to supply and demand.  If there is little supply and high demand, then the price goes up.  We learned this what in the 7th grade?

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8 hours ago, sqidd said:

Explain to me in detail how I'm a scalper. Here is a hint. Actually read all of my posts first.

Two saying come to mind when I read your post. Two sayings I use as guild lines on how I talk on the internet:

-People can be anyone they want to be on the internet. It's too bad most people decide to be a........

-Never say anything on the internet that you wouldn't say to someone if they were standing in front of you.

I'm a scalper.  Doesn't bother me one single bit.  I even stated that before on here and a few other things and got banned.  That doesn't bother me either.  LOL.  It surely did not affect my collection or my capability to purchase more Macross stuff.

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4 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

No such thing as nuance huh?

There are plenty of things about capitalism that are inherently bad, greed and what people are willing to do to one another do in the pursuit of more come to mind. I mean, just look at the income gap between the truly wealthy and those that can barely afford to live.

Do I enjoy the benefits of living in today's capitalist society? Yes, absolutely.

Are there things about said society that are amazing? Yes, absolutely. 

Are there things about said society that are just plain ugly? Yes, absolutely. 

To be honest, I can easily see how a person could draw that conclusion based on the things that you post. And I read waaaay more than I post. 

That doesn't mean that you will, or will not do a "thing", just that I could see how someone could draw the conclusion. I'm sure one or two here and there have formed opinions about me, right or wrong there's no skin off of my nose.

But you opened up the conversation, don't be mad at folks for forming an opinion. No need to go full-on "say it to my face" to make your point. :lol:

-b.

So... does that mean I can count you in for the glorious revolution, Commrad?

__tashkent_kantai_collection_drawn_by_rabochicken__sample-60f060fb6c381051cf39d4d4da37c3c8.thumb.jpg.92cd1fe32aeaa0b3d75b3c8690eb4f31.jpg

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9 hours ago, sqidd said:

Explain to me in detail how I'm a scalper. Here is a hint. Actually read all of my posts first.

Two saying come to mind when I read your post. Two sayings I use as guild lines on how I talk on the internet:

-People can be anyone they want to be on the internet. It's too bad most people decide to be a........

-Never say anything on the internet that you wouldn't say to someone if they were standing in front of you.

 

You started this thread. You taking away preorders from people who really want the item. That is scalping! Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck!

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I have to admit.. I am kind of surprised people make money selling Macross toys.

Granted, I have not sold that many valkyries.

But I think for the most part, I have generally sold at lower prices than what I originally paid. 

(sigh)  The problems of being a poor student with limited storage space (/sigh)

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17 minutes ago, rocketblast said:

I'm a scalper.  Doesn't bother me one single bit.  I even stated that before on here and a few other things and got banned.  That doesn't bother me either.  LOL.  It surely did not affect my collection or my capability to purchase more Macross stuff.

LOL at admitting in a public post that you're using a second account to circumvent a ban. :lol:

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45 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

So... does that mean I can count you in for the glorious revolution, Commrad?

__tashkent_kantai_collection_drawn_by_rabochicken__sample-60f060fb6c381051cf39d4d4da37c3c8.thumb.jpg.92cd1fe32aeaa0b3d75b3c8690eb4f31.jpg

If I can't dance, I don't want to be in your revolution!

- Emma Goldman

Which strangely, seems to be the conclusion that I think our Zentran and Meltran cousins came too when they met up with us.

Now where do I line up to get my rationed 1/60 VF-31, eh?

Edited by Mazinger
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FYI, It's not bots doing the split second purchases, it's running the purchasing page on script only. It's how a lot of the F5 sales get instantly sold out.
This is a big issue with the products sold in Asian markets. 3A had a huge problem with it, holiday sales would be sold out in less than a minute.

The Script users would have the page loaded, and checkout completed before your main page ever loaded
I suspect the same thing is happening here. Bot's can't change the connection speed and site server hang ups.
running with out site images... well there almost no serve lag time.
They tried to combat it by only allowing verified emails and lowering amounts per customer, but the shop owners would just have multiple instances open.

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52 minutes ago, anime52k8 said:

So... does that mean I can count you in for the glorious revolution, Commrad?

Ha! For you sure, although I'm more anti-greedy POS than anything else. :D

43 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

Anyone who wants this item can preorder it themselves. 

That's the thing, with regards to many Bandai items you really can't. Don't forget that there are a lot of collectors that have limited disposable income for something like this. And it's one thing to be simply priced out of the market, it's another when something that should be affordable, isn't, because of scalping.

7 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

The ire should be directed towards Bandai for producing so few units and making everyone beg like a circus seal to get one. 

Indeed, but me thinks there is enough ire to go around. Bandai for their seemingly asinine go-to-market strategy and those that only buy up product with the expressed purpose of gouging those that actually want said product.

Many scalpers in the truest sense of the word really could care less about Macross or Gundam, they just buy the coveted items to sell at a mark-up.

 

 

 

 

This is supposed to be a fun hobby right? I just want to enjoy my toys without having to pay double the manufacturer's asking price.

-b.

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11 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Ha! For you sure, although I'm more anti-greedy POS than anything else. :D

That's the thing, with regards to many Bandai items you really can't. Don't forget that there are a lot of collectors that have limited disposable income for something like this. And it's one thing to be simply priced out of the market, it's another when something that should be affordable, isn't, because of scalping.

Indeed, but me thinks there is enough ire to go around. Bandai for their seemingly asinine go-to-market strategy and those that only buy up product with the expressed purpose of gouging those that actually want said product.

Many scalpers in the truest sense of the word really could care less about Macross or Gundam, they just buy the coveted items to sell at a mark-up.

 

 

 

 

This is supposed to be a fun hobby right? I just want to enjoy my toys without having to pay double the manufacturer's asking price.

-b.

This thread wasn't about Bandai and when the op learned about Bandai regular releases, he said he wouldn't try the same thing on those.

I totally agree that this is supposed to be a fun hobby. I never pay double msrp because to me, it is also a game of what you can find or get yourself. If I miss out, I miss out, NBD. Just like this morning with the SDCC Boba Fett figure. I got the SDCC Hulk but misssed Fett. You win some, you lose some. They are just toys and I got plenty to go around.

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