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5 hours ago, NightmarePlus said:

I take it that the Fold Quartz they have on Windermere wouldn't cut it for what the 29 requires?

So... that much isn't completely clear.

We know that Windermere IV has a large amount of fold quartz that they were very frustrated about New UN Government restrictions on the mining and trading of, but the quality and quantity requirements for the YF-29's Fold Wave System are pretty obscene.  We're talking four 1,000ct (200g) pieces of ultra-high purity fold quartz.  If fold quartz has density similar to actual quartz, those 1,000ct (200g) crystals would have to be at least 5.25cm across (for comparison's sake, a golf ball is 4.27cm across).

The SV-262 Draken III incorporates a Fold Reheat system based on some of the same principles as the Fold Wave System, but entirely devoted to improving engine output.  The Hs command type is noted to have a more capable version of the Fold Reheat system that uses special larger fold quartz obtained from the Windermere royal family, so they might be able to get in the ballpark at the very least.  

 

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

Could be the ultra economy version..🤔

That's called the VF-31 Siegfried.

 

 

27 minutes ago, DewPoint said:

Maybe not relevant to the conversation, but 1 carat is 200mg. So a 1000 carat fold quartz weighs 200 grams.

4 minutes ago, twich said:

That is actually quite small, so all 4 of the fold quartz necessary for the YF-29 to be at full power is less than a kilogram in weight. 2.2lbs=1kg. So The necklace that Hayate wears is probably half of the requirement of the system, I guess it is just a matter of the purity.

The size would depend on the density of fold quartz.

Mind you, we're told in the YF-29's official writeups that fold quartz of the appropriate size and purity is vanishingly rare stuff.  So much so that in Macross Frontier the only known source was Vajra semi-queen and queen forms.  Even on planets with extensive Protoculture ruins, crystals of that type are extremely hard to come by and worth a fortune.  

Even a fold quartz crystal the size of a golf ball is absolutely gargantuan compared to the size of the crystals we saw in most of Macross Frontier.  The fold quartz earrings that Sheryl Nome had, based on the dimensions of the official cosplay accessory, are lozenge-cut stones approximately 2.6cm by 0.9cm.  An adult Vajra soldier form has one of those crystals in its entire body, and they're only just pure enough to use in something like an inertia store converter or a dimensional warhead.

The fold quartz crystal in Hayate's keepsake pendant is quite a bit larger than any other fold quartz crystal we've seen directly, that much is true.  It's probably not at usable level of purity, though, given that the gaiden manga Macross Delta Gaiden: White Knight of the Black Wing shows the pendant came from a street vendor (the young Theo and Xao Jussila) selling touristy knickknacks in a farming village near the New UN Spacy garrison.  They offer several pendants of the same design to Keith, Bogue, Roid, and their mentor Morris in the manga's fourth chapter.  The Windermereans were well aware of the value of fold quartz at the time, so it seems unlikely that a renowned merchant family like the Jussilas was selling fold quartz crystals that were individually worth a king's ransom for pocket change in the form of tacky costume jewelry.  Xaos isn't exactly lacking for experts either, so you would think someone would've examined it and told him how much it was worth.  Especially once his resonance with Freyja started causing health problems.

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On 7/13/2021 at 11:02 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

So... that much isn't completely clear.

We know that Windermere IV has a large amount of fold quartz that they were very frustrated about New UN Government restrictions on the mining and trading of, but the quality and quantity requirements for the YF-29's Fold Wave System are pretty obscene.  We're talking four 1,000ct (200g) pieces of ultra-high purity fold quartz.  If fold quartz has density similar to actual quartz, those 1,000ct (200g) crystals would have to be at least 5.25cm across (for comparison's sake, a golf ball is 4.27cm across).

The SV-262 Draken III incorporates a Fold Reheat system based on some of the same principles as the Fold Wave System, but entirely devoted to improving engine output.  The Hs command type is noted to have a more capable version of the Fold Reheat system that uses special larger fold quartz obtained from the Windermere royal family, so they might be able to get in the ballpark at the very least.  

 

That's called the VF-31 Siegfried.

 

 

The size would depend on the density of fold quartz.

Mind you, we're told in the YF-29's official writeups that fold quartz of the appropriate size and purity is vanishingly rare stuff.  So much so that in Macross Frontier the only known source was Vajra semi-queen and queen forms.  Even on planets with extensive Protoculture ruins, crystals of that type are extremely hard to come by and worth a fortune.  

Even a fold quartz crystal the size of a golf ball is absolutely gargantuan compared to the size of the crystals we saw in most of Macross Frontier.  The fold quartz earrings that Sheryl Nome had, based on the dimensions of the official cosplay accessory, are lozenge-cut stones approximately 2.6cm by 0.9cm.  An adult Vajra soldier form has one of those crystals in its entire body, and they're only just pure enough to use in something like an inertia store converter or a dimensional warhead.

The fold quartz crystal in Hayate's keepsake pendant is quite a bit larger than any other fold quartz crystal we've seen directly, that much is true.  It's probably not at usable level of purity, though, given that the gaiden manga Macross Delta Gaiden: White Knight of the Black Wing shows the pendant came from a street vendor (the young Theo and Xao Jussila) selling touristy knickknacks in a farming village near the New UN Spacy garrison.  They offer several pendants of the same design to Keith, Bogue, Roid, and their mentor Morris in the manga's fourth chapter.  The Windermereans were well aware of the value of fold quartz at the time, so it seems unlikely that a renowned merchant family like the Jussilas was selling fold quartz crystals that were individually worth a king's ransom for pocket change in the form of tacky costume jewelry.  Xaos isn't exactly lacking for experts either, so you would think someone would've examined it and told him how much it was worth.  Especially once his resonance with Freyja started causing health problems.

That raises a question in my mind: did the Protoculture civilization particularly prize fold quartz of that purity, or were they advanced enough to make their own at a specific quality and quantity? Not sure, but since you mentioned previously that Protoculture seemed to worship the Vajra, they may not have been.

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15 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

That raises a question in my mind: did the Protoculture civilization particularly prize fold quartz of that purity, or were they advanced enough to make their own at a specific quality and quantity? Not sure, but since you mentioned previously that Protoculture seemed to worship the Vajra, they may not have been.

It seems a safe bet the Protoculture developed a means to synthesize fold quartz at the requisite level of purity for a given application.  Humanity's noted to be researching that very topic, and they're millennia behind where the Protoculture were technologically.  (Esp. if the foundations of the Protoculture ruins in the Brisingr cluster are what they appear to be... planet-spanning networks of fold quartz "tendrils".)

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10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It seems a safe bet the Protoculture developed a means to synthesize fold quartz at the requisite level of purity for a given application.  Humanity's noted to be researching that very topic, and they're millennia behind where the Protoculture were technologically.  (Esp. if the foundations of the Protoculture ruins in the Brisingr cluster are what they appear to be... planet-spanning networks of fold quartz "tendrils".)

So it's entirely possible then that there may be an as to undiscovered facility remaining from the Protoculture that was capable of making it? I wonder if that's part of the reason for the continued exploration (aside from colonization, of course)?

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6 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

So it's entirely possible then that there may be an as to undiscovered facility remaining from the Protoculture that was capable of making it? I wonder if that's part of the reason for the continued exploration (aside from colonization, of course)?

It kind of makes you wonder if there is some facility somewhere that does just that sort of thing.....a factory satellite that makes fold quartz.  Or, a factory satellite that makes the ship that the windamearans (sp?) found the Sigur......hashtehshitz.  

Twich

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2 hours ago, twich said:

It kind of makes you wonder if there is some facility somewhere that does just that sort of thing.....a factory satellite that makes fold quartz.  Or, a factory satellite that makes the ship that the windamearans (sp?) found the Sigur......hashtehshitz.  

Twich

It might be the same factory that makes all those guns we see in films and TV that never run out of ammo. :p

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So, another 262-Hs? Interesting, though I guess it means no needing to make up the Ba head and wing sculpt if they make it a toy.

As to the mystery valkyrie, I'm seeing some SV- lineage there (in the battroid appearance), as well as VF-27 and YF-29?

Definitely an interesting shape, and I'm guessing some VF-4 lineage in the transformation.

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35 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Definitely an interesting shape, and I'm guessing some VF-4 lineage in the transformation.

Now now don't give Bandai idea for a DX VF-4A. :rolleyes:

 

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On 7/20/2021 at 1:34 PM, no3Ljm said:

Now now don't give Bandai idea for a DX VF-4A. :rolleyes:

Give me ALL the VF-4!!!

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On 7/19/2021 at 7:05 PM, pengbuzz said:

So it's entirely possible then that there may be an as to undiscovered facility remaining from the Protoculture that was capable of making it? I wonder if that's part of the reason for the continued exploration (aside from colonization, of course)?

On 7/20/2021 at 3:53 AM, pengbuzz said:

It might be the same factory that makes all those guns we see in films and TV that never run out of ammo. :p

Possibly.  Or it may have been something they perfected until after their civilization's collapse given that a lot of their fold quartz-rich ruins and relics are out on the edge of the galaxy where their final enclaves were before they went extinct.

(and hey, we do know that they had the technology to violate conservation of matter at one point...)

 

On 7/20/2021 at 2:34 PM, no3Ljm said:

Now now don't give Bandai idea for a DX VF-4A. :rolleyes:

... I'm going to assume the "n't" there at the end of "do" is a typo.  That is the only possible explanation I could think of for it.

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5 minutes ago, deathzealot said:

What the heck did I just watch?? I also agree why in the world are they holding weapons? Is Walkure going to need to be using weapons in the movie??

I'm down for it, if Walkure go after Bogue with harisen or at least a squeaky mallet every time he opens his mouth to say something stupid or sexist.

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7 hours ago, Bolt said:

Cool. But why are they holding weapons? It looks silly.

 

2 hours ago, deathzealot said:

What the heck did I just watch?? I also agree why in the world are they holding weapons? Is Walkure going to need to be using weapons in the movie??

 To handle critics? :P

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Its been a while since I watched Delta, but werent they given some form of combat training, they are still employees of a PMC right?

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9 hours ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

Its been a while since I watched Delta, but werent they given some form of combat training, they are still employees of a PMC right?

Combat Training, yes, weapon training, no. In fact they were in combat situations plenty of times and never used a weapon at all. The closest being their own drones which they used as weapons a few times using them to knock infantry shooters out. Then there was Kaname's claws during their stealth mission to Voldore. I think of Walkure Kaname is the only one who does have some Weapon Training as she was asked that during her flashback to her interview. This was thanks to her home planet being a constant battlefield.

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This right here is EXACTLY how I want Walkure to deal with Bogue every time he opens his mouth.

 

 

17 hours ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

Its been a while since I watched Delta, but werent they given some form of combat training, they are still employees of a PMC right?

Not as such.  You see, Xaos is an interstellar conglomerate which controls a bunch of different subsidiary companies in different industries.

Walkure's members are employees of Xaos's performing arts division, a talent management agency owned and controlled by the parent Xaos corporation.

Delta Flight's members, and practically all of the other Xaos employees we see in the series, are employees of Xaos's private military contractor division.

The Tactical Sound Units are a joint venture between those two very different Xaos subsidiary companies, with Delta Flight acting as a de facto bodyguard detail to Walkure when it's engaged in Var suppression activities.

Kaname mentions she had some self-defense training when she was a child, but I don't recall the series ever actually showing or stating that Walkure's members receive any kind of hand-to-hand or weapons training.  They don't seem to even get any kind of training to acclimatize them to battlefield operations either, given that practically all of Walkure's early operations were a string of massive public failures when the group did little besides scream, cower, and flee once the fighting started... which, in all fairness, is kind of the expected outcome if you throw untrained civilians into live combat.  The only training we see them do is some basic, vaguely military-esque PT (jogging in the rain while dragging a tire), an unconvincing bit of what I assume is survival training (eating canned food in the woods while wearing parkas), and parachute training.

 

 

5 hours ago, Bolt said:

Still wondering who the 6th is..cyber drone pilot? 😜

Probably.

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So I was deep diving around the trailers and the new pics of the 31AX, and have a few theories/things I noticed. I apologize if this is all stuff mentioned in other threads, I didnt have time to comb pages and pages on every thread, and this seemed the most universally relevant for the new movie 😛 
*The new fighter (And the poster who suggested the idea that 'DE-124 Siren' may be the name of the new plane has an interesting idea there, and I quite like it) has an intriguing transformation with LOTS of panels, and from what I can tell the turret section behind the head, and the small wings on either side in Battroid are the bottom of the fighter, which means (I believe) that during transformation the cockpit/head slides back up the centre-line of the fighter as the legs swing down. So in fighter mode its kind of lying on its back. As I type this I realize just how hard to describe this is in text. 😛 ) I also agree with the idea many have had that its a drone fighter of some kind, with our new girl flying it.
*Several shots in the trailers show Hayate and Mirage in 31AXs fighting the 'Siren' and the YF-29 as ewll as the Black and Yellow Ghost fighter. This leads me to a couple of theories. I believe that the new girl is a second clone, similar to Mikumo, created by the Spacy. I think the central conflict of this film will pit Xaos and Windermere AGAINST the Spacy. 
*We see shots of the 31's flying with the Aerial Knights; promo materials have mentioned the film starts with the signing of a peace treaty between Xaos/Brisngr Cluster and Windermere, so Im thinking maybe this happens here. I suspect the first attack by Spacy forces will come at this ceremony and lead to several of the elements we see later on in the course of the trailer. 
*The second trailer shows an old priest dude with a staff on Windermere who I think looks like Keith. He has calcification showing his aging. I think Keith will have 'retired' as the Head Knight of the Windermerian forces, and Bogue will be in charge now. The pictures of the red 262 we have seen have Bogues Wing symbols on it. That said, the 31AX with Green and Delta 6 Markings also has a Red Windermere Knights logo on the back, so maybe we'll see him in both? 
*New shots of Hayates 31AX toy  show the name 'Parmenides' who was a greek philosopher and the founder of Metaphysics. Which is pretty cool, but probably in this case its the name of the new ship that the 31AXs launch from. As many have noted, it looks very Zentran in nature. Beats me what THAT means! :D 

How much of all that is true i dont know, but its fun to speculate :) 

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in both the series and the movie, Keith is dead, so he "retired" before the events of this movie.  Mayhap Master Hermann is now the White Knight and Bogue is his second, if you look at the Red SV-262Hs Draken III, it has 3 little ticks coming off the wing symbol, Keiths' SV-262Hs Draken III had just one.  Fighting the UN Spacy is at least possible, I do not think that anyone in Xaos or WIndermere really likes the New UN Spacy, but I find it stretching things that Xaos would be in open warfare with them, but having the New UN Spacy present would be a more plausible explanation as to why there is a YF/VF-29 present.

Twich

Edited by twich
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On 4/29/2021 at 4:38 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Nope.  Absolutely not.  Wouldn't dream of it.  OK. :p

The only noteworthy bit is that this new VF is apparently called the "Parmenides"... an odd choice, since Parmenides was a Greek philosopher whose fragmentary surviving work is best known for dictums like "Nothing comes from nothing" and ruminations like the distinction between objective and subjective experience.  T

I've been thinking about this one since I ran into his name being used on a VF; been doing some thinking on that.

Parmenides had a few views that the makers of this fighter could have seized upon:

1) That Parmenides believed there was a difference between appearance and reality, and that we were mistaken about "the everyday perception of the real world".

2) That he postulated "the void" could not exist, since it was nothing and nothing cannot exist.

3) That (as you previously mentioned), something cannot come from nothing.

Being that this is Macross, to attach that name onto a VF tells me that there is something about this particular VF variant that either:

1) Appears differently than it actually is;

2) Has a weapon/ feature that functions somehow based upon a theory that there is something in space and it uses it in some way to either power said weapon/ feature or employ it somehow using it;

3) Prevents craft/ vessels from folding/ interferes with anything using a fold system (fold reheat, fold carbon, etc.), i.e. "something cannot come from nothing" (a craft coming out of fold would be "coming from nothing" in one sense).

Those are my guesses; I'm probably way off the mark here, but given the use of this name, i did a little digging around (yes, Wikipedia was involved as well as Pepsi :D).

Edited by pengbuzz
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The marking for Parmenides is in the place on the tailfin that shows the home carrier for the aircraft.  It has already been discussed that this might be the name of the new ship that Delta Flight is stationed on, meaning something could have happened to the Aether, or maybe the Macross 1/2 got replaced with the Macross 9 3/4, and this is the name of one of its carrier "arms".

Twich

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5 minutes ago, twich said:

The marking for Parmenides is in the place on the tailfin that shows the home carrier for the aircraft.  It has already been discussed that this might be the name of the new ship that Delta Flight is stationed on, meaning something could have happened to the Aether, or maybe the Macross 1/2 got replaced with the Macross 9 3/4, and this is the name of one of its carrier "arms".

Twich

Understood; just wanted to postulate a few possibilities I was thinking of in the meantime.

Could also be the proprietor of the fast-food restaurant aboard the parent ship. :p

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Greek Food.....Yummmm! Do they have Gyros and falafel in the Brisingr Cluster?  Do they even have sheep/lamb?   Sorry, guess I am really hungry here at work right now....

Twich 

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2 hours ago, Scream Man said:

*Several shots in the trailers show Hayate and Mirage in 31AXs fighting the 'Siren' and the YF-29 as ewll as the Black and Yellow Ghost fighter.

The YF-29's in Hayate's colors and the drone has Xaos markings, so I think you may be misinterpreting those shots...

 

2 hours ago, Scream Man said:

This leads me to a couple of theories. I believe that the new girl is a second clone, similar to Mikumo, created by the Spacy. I think the central conflict of this film will pit Xaos and Windermere AGAINST the Spacy. 

Yeah, I pointed out there's some leading remarks made back in the TV series about Lady M's experiments in creating an Ultimate Weapon based on her research into the military potential of song, in which it's mentioned that she's rumored to be toying with approaching it both with cybernetics and genetic engineering/cloning.

 

2 hours ago, Scream Man said:

*The second trailer shows an old priest dude with a staff on Windermere who I think looks like Keith. He has calcification showing his aging. I think Keith will have 'retired' as the Head Knight of the Windermerian forces, and Bogue will be in charge now. The pictures of the red 262 we have seen have Bogues Wing symbols on it. That said, the 31AX with Green and Delta 6 Markings also has a Red Windermere Knights logo on the back, so maybe we'll see him in both? 

Keith, as others have pointed out, is quite busy being a corpse.

It's possible the priest is a relative of Roid's, as his family were shrine keepers.

 

53 minutes ago, twich said:

Mayhap Master Hermann is now the White Knight and Bogue is his second, if you look at the Red SV-262Hs Draken III, it has 3 little ticks coming off the wing symbol, Keiths' SV-262Hs Draken III had just one.

Hermann Kroos is, as far as we know, the most senior surviving Aerial Knight... but he's probably too old to take up the mantle of the White Knight.

The markings on the red Sv-262Hs are consistent with Bogue's markings.

 

53 minutes ago, twich said:

Fighting the UN Spacy is at least possible, I do not think that anyone in Xaos or WIndermere really likes the New UN Spacy, but I find it stretching things that Xaos would be in open warfare with them, but having the New UN Spacy present would be a more plausible explanation as to why there is a YF/VF-29 present.

Xaos is a bush-league PMC that failed to defeat the Aerial Knights, who are so bush league they literally had no actual combat experience at the start of the war... there's no way either of them would last five minutes against the New UN Forces.

It's been said the enemy in the movie is a new one, so presumably they are in fact new.

 

4 minutes ago, twich said:

The marking for Parmenides is in the place on the tailfin that shows the home carrier for the aircraft.

Or the home airbase... and it's worth remembering Xaos's unit terminology is Air Force-inspired.

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8 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Could also be the proprietor of the fast-food restaurant aboard the parent ship. :p

Or maybe they gave up being a PMC and became a pizza delivery service like they kept joking about Messer doing in the Blu-ray extras.

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and maybe the new thermometer looking mission pack, is, in fact, a new pizza topping anointment device, so that Delta Flight can plook down their favorite pizza toppings on their enemies and competing PMC's everywhere.

Twich

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1 minute ago, twich said:

and maybe the new thermometer looking mission pack, is, in fact, a new pizza topping anointment device, so that Delta Flight can plook down their favorite pizza toppings on their enemies and competing PMC's everywhere.

Twich

Or it's an actual thermometer designed to measure the pizza's optimum temperature for delivery.

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8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The YF-29's in Hayate's colors and the drone has Xaos markings, so I think you may be misinterpreting those shots...

 

I have started rewatching the first Delta movie coz I apparently forgot Keith died, which seems like an important thing to have forgotten 
(Im actually enjoying it more than I did the first time round, though Im only halfway through)

As to this question: This is pretty clearly Hayates VF-31AX in Combat with the Blue 29. Hayate hits the Asteroid and transforms; You can see the new pack and shoulders. He is being fired upon, the shots land behind him as he dodges. Then in Pic 3 you can see the 29 pass over his fighter, before flying past as he leaps up in Pic 4, transforming into fighter mode to go the other way. 

 

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Edited by Scream Man
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As to the Drone fighter; You might be right. It does have Delta 6 markings, and yet is clearly in combat with CHuck, Mirage and i THINK Hayate, though its hard to tell. Which could mean that either the drone is taken over... or the Green Delta 6 31AX we see and its pilot go rogue (Or go Bogue 😛 ) or get infected by Var. 

Speculation is fun :) 

 

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