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3 hours ago, sqidd said:

Oddly, 3.33 didn't seem like it was as much of a mystery to me. It seemed more like watching your standard action movie than the previous two. Not a lot to trip you up aside from the "half 4th impact" actual impact thing. That said, I'm still lost on who was trying to accomplish what. And what was what. Can someone answer these questions for me?

-Was this entire thing about aliens or actual "religious"/magical events?

really its about allegory and metaphor for the human experience and how we have to grow and mature as a person rather than cling to the impermanent desires of youth. but as far as the actual plot goes, idk. I'd go with metaphysical since everything without concrete explanation seems to be chocked up to the product of a recurring time loop created by the evas and their pilots.

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-Are Angles aliens?

not directly. in the show they were the products of beings created by aliens, but so were humans. in the rebuild films, it's anyones guess where they come from; it's never really addressed.

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-Was SEELE made up of humans or aliens?

In rebuild SEELE are most likely humans, though they are beings who gave up their physical forms for immortality so that they could guide the development of humanity.

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-What was SEELE's goal? Human Instrumantality? Basically everyone shares a consciousness? Why was this their goal?

SEELE's goal is still instrumentality, but in the rebuild it's changed from what it was in the show. now it's about ending all life on earth so that all souls will return to the chamber of Guf so that they can be reborn in immortal perfect bodies (basically EVAs). they want this because they see it as the only way to further human evolution.

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-Was Gendo's goal different from SEELE?

yep. Gendo's exact plan is kinda nebulous but it's seems to be him casting aside his own humanity, obtaining godhood and merging with Yui as some sort of singular perfect being and frakk everyone else.

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After some reading last night it seems I missed an after credits scene in 2.22 where I think it was Kaworu stopped the 4th Impact by spearing Unit 01?

Was Asuka a engineered super solider right from the beginning or only after she was pieced back together?

Kaworu stopped third impact using the Spear of Cassius on the awakened Unit-01

 

based on what we see in 3.0+1.0 she was always that way. She was engineered from birth and raised to be the perfect EVA pilot by NERVs European branch. The Asuka we see throughout the films is the one that survived of the dozens created as part of this program.

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3 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

really its about allegory and metaphor for the human experience and how we have to grow and mature as a person rather than cling to the impermanent desires of youth. but as far as the actual plot goes, idk. I'd go with metaphysical since everything without concrete explanation seems to be chocked up to the product of a recurring time loop created by the evas and their pilots.

not directly. in the show they were the products of beings created by aliens, but so were humans. in the rebuild films, it's anyones guess where they come from; it's never really addressed.

In rebuild SEELE are most likely humans, though they are beings who gave up their physical forms for immortality so that they could guide the development of humanity.

SEELE's goal is still instrumentality, but in the rebuild it's changed from what it was in the show. now it's about ending all life on earth so that all souls will return to the chamber of Guf so that they can be reborn in immortal perfect bodies (basically EVAs). they want this because they see it as the only way to further human evolution.

yep. Gendo's exact plan is kinda nebulous but it's seems to be him casting aside his own humanity, obtaining godhood and merging with Yui as some sort of singular perfect being and frakk everyone else.

Kaworu stopped third impact using the Spear of Cassius on the awakened Unit-01

 

based on what we see in 3.0+1.0 she was always that way. She was engineered from birth and raised to be the perfect EVA pilot by NERVs European branch. The Asuka we see throughout the films is the one that survived of the dozens created as part of this program.

Much appreciated sir!:hi:

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12 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

I've never understood where people got the idea that Toji's sister is Unit 03's soul in the series. she's implied to be alive both before and after unit 03's tenure in the show. It makes more sense and is more consistent for it to be his dead mom.

I'm not sure where you're getting this from. Mari isn't a clone, she just hasn't aged because of contact with evas, same as Asuka after the time skip. as for Asuka being a clone, I wouldn't say she's the same as Rei. Rei is a hybrid of Yui and lilith where as Asuka is an engineered super soldier made specifically to pilot EVA.

It's a pretty clear series of events.

-Toji & his sister live with their father

- Toji's sister is badly injured

- Ritsuko tags Toji as the next Marfuk candidate.

- The offer to Toji includes care for his sister internally at Nerv.

- Eva cores have been exclusively female.

- The core being a close female relative increases sync ratio significantly (unless the pilot is an Angel or equal, such as Rei, Kowaru & whatever Mari counts as).

- No other female relatives of Toji are mentioned.

While it's possible they had his mom's soul on ice the whole time the lack of his sister being injured & Asuka piloting Unit 4 in 2.22 point to otherwise.

When I say Mari & Asuka are clones I mean of themselves  "The curse of Eva" is vague at best, with nothing pointing to simply piloting being a cause of impacting biology. Far more likely Ritsuko "put" Asuka back together with an enhanced body and her original soul. Mari is the bigger mystery, but her familiarity with the Ikari's implies her manga back story. Her acuity with Eva's implies angel like enhancement.

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9 hours ago, sqidd said:

Oddly, 3.33 didn't seem like it was as much of a mystery to me. It seemed more like watching your standard action movie than the previous two. Not a lot to trip you up aside from the "half 4th impact" actual impact thing. That said, I'm still lost on who was trying to accomplish what. And what was what. Can someone answer these questions for me?

-Was this entire thing about aliens or actual "religious"/magical events?

-Are Angles aliens?

-Was SEELE made up of humans or aliens?

-What was SEELE's goal? Human Instrumantality? Basically everyone shares a consciousness? Why was this their goal?

-Was Gendo's goal different from SEELE?

 

After some reading last night it seems I missed an after credits scene in 2.22 where I think it was Kaworu stopped the 4th Impact by spearing Unit 01?

Was Asuka a engineered super solider right from the beginning or only after she was pieced back together?

 

Thanks for you input guys!:hi:

 

I gotta say I absolutely loved Unit 13 (not more than Unit 01 though). There just happens to be a PO for the re-issue of the RAH version going on right now. I PO'd it last night. No flippin idea where i'm going to display it with the spears though. They're about 30" long!:lol:

evangelion-3-0-rah-action-figure-eva-uni

1: Alien colonization project, bio-superscience.

2: Aliens in that they're from space, not aliens in that they're part of the same species humans are derived from. Angel (Adam) + human (Lilim - children of Lilith) = God (Being capable of traveling through space and splitting up into angels/humans once finding a suitable planet).

3: Seele is a human clandestine agency that believes final evolution for the species is combining everyone into godform and chilling on the planet forever.

4: Gendo is a man who wants to fullfill his wife's wishes by making a new god to go out into space and colonize a new planet and ensure the survival of the species. They achieve this by using Seele's resources but using them for their own agenda.

4B: Once Gendo realizes Yui's plan involves abandoning him, he alters the plan a bit to tag along with her by replacing Adam with hinself. Spoilers, this does not work out.

4C: Yui leaves it up to Shinji whether life on Earth turns into the single existence Seele desires or remains individual.

5: Asuka was a normal human pilot that is changed after her death in the movie version (2.0)

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3 hours ago, Keith said:

It's a pretty clear series of events.

 

...what? This is the first I've ever heard this idea posited... or that it could be Toji's mom. The first sounds more farfetched than the second, but I'm fairly skeptical of both.

It's canonically stated (in "supplemental" material... sigh...) that Evas require souls - specifically the souls of the pilots' mothers - but that statement of canon is often at odds with the events of the show itself. Or at least, it causes... friction. Of the 13 known Eva units, only 2 - Unit 01 and Unit 02 - are known to have their pilots' mothers' souls inside them. In 02's case, it only has part of her soul (for a time, at least), leading to her psychosis and eventual suicide (after which it might have absorbed the rest of it???). 00's soul is unknown; apparently the prevailing theory points to Rei I, though I've seen both Naoko Akagi and none posited. Aside from those three, the show and supporting material says nothing at all about whose soul reside in which Eva Unit.

If anything, I lean towards the "soul" of Unit 03 being no one at all. Once it comes into contact with Bardiel, the Angel simply puppets it, even more easily than Kaworu puppets Unit 02 in episode 24. I always got the feeling that the characters of the show don't even really know that an Eva HAS to have a soul to synchronize with someone. Or if they do, they aren't able to comprehend anything more than that. The what, but not the why or how. Yui Ikari might be the one exception, and even then I'm not sure.

3 hours ago, Keith said:

When I say Mari & Asuka are clones I mean of themselves  "The curse of Eva" is vague at best, with nothing pointing to simply piloting being a cause of impacting biology.

 

"The curse of Eva" is nothing more than an excuse to keep the pilots young and marketable while fast-forwarding the setting 25(?) years, but I didn't see any reason to not take it on its face. Piloting an Eva has caused the pilots to become ageless. Sure, alright.

3.0 Mari and Asuka are the same as 1.0 Mari and Asuka as 2.0 Mari and Asuka. Who Mari is beyond that... eh, I don't really know and I don't really care.

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3 hours ago, kajnrig said:

...what? This is the first I've ever heard this idea posited... or that it could be Toji's mom. The first sounds more farfetched than the second, but I'm fairly skeptical of both.

It's canonically stated (in "supplemental" material... sigh...) that Evas require souls - specifically the souls of the pilots' mothers - but that statement of canon is often at odds with the events of the show itself. Or at least, it causes... friction. Of the 13 known Eva units, only 2 - Unit 01 and Unit 02 - are known to have their pilots' mothers' souls inside them. In 02's case, it only has part of her soul (for a time, at least), leading to her psychosis and eventual suicide (after which it might have absorbed the rest of it???). 00's soul is unknown; apparently the prevailing theory points to Rei I, though I've seen both Naoko Akagi and none posited. Aside from those three, the show and supporting material says nothing at all about whose soul reside in which Eva Unit.

If anything, I lean towards the "soul" of Unit 03 being no one at all. Once it comes into contact with Bardiel, the Angel simply puppets it, even more easily than Kaworu puppets Unit 02 in episode 24. I always got the feeling that the characters of the show don't even really know that an Eva HAS to have a soul to synchronize with someone. Or if they do, they aren't able to comprehend anything more than that. The what, but not the why or how. Yui Ikari might be the one exception, and even then I'm not sure.

 

"The curse of Eva" is nothing more than an excuse to keep the pilots young and marketable while fast-forwarding the setting 25(?) years, but I didn't see any reason to not take it on its face. Piloting an Eva has caused the pilots to become ageless. Sure, alright.

3.0 Mari and Asuka are the same as 1.0 Mari and Asuka as 2.0 Mari and Asuka. Who Mari is beyond that... eh, I don't really know and I don't really care.

- Unit-00's soul is/was Rei. The specifics of how Lilith's soul is split/fractured/dubbed isn't specifically gone into, but the overall precedent for it is the existence of the dummy plug system.

The rage during 00's first psync test lean's toward the soul being Rei-I. The vision Rei has of herself during the later sync test proves overall that it's a "Rei," and the discussion with herself she has during 00's corruption as well as the personality shift in Rei-III points to a rejoining of I & II into III.

- Naoko was never in an Eva, she was split into all 3 MAGI, this is pretty plainly stated. Ritsuko has no connection to 00, but has various confrontations with her mother in MAGI form.

- Eva series 5 - 13 are all Kowaru/dummy plug based, so it's likely the souls are also Adam based.

- Which takes us back to Unit-04. It was originally being prepped for the U.S., and at that point didn't have a core. It was infected/corrupted mid flight, but there's no indication that the Angel actually took control/possession until after sync activation. Recall again that Ritsuko explicitly states that Toji's selection was directly tied to a core being readily available to prep for him. This isn't a difficult mystery to solve.

The "only" instance of an Eva functioning without a soul was conditional When Kowaru took control of 02 he was able to do so because like Asuka, her mother"s soul retreated inward. For that time Kowaru himself served as the Eva's soul, and you'll note he wasn't actually in the plug.

Eva's and Angels alike "do not" function without souls. The proof there is both the Adam embryo (in Gendo's hand) and the Lilith giant in Terminal Dogma. Gendo, Yui, Fuyutsuki,Naoko, Ritsuko, Keel, Mari & Kowaru are all overtly shown to be aware that souls are a requirement for Eva's to function & be synced with. It's only Misato & below that are oblivious to it.

- No one said 1.0 & 2.0 Asuka & Mari weren't the same, the question lies with Mari's existence in general, as well as Asuka's state in 3.0. I personally find Mari's mystery to be fun, especially since she's one of the rare series characters that doesn't have a "Nadia" or "Gunbuster" parallel. That just leaves her manga epilogue appearance as a clue, which is completely out of place unless viewed as a prologue to her Rebuild presence. I'm hoping 3.0+1.0 sheds any kind of light on her origin.

20210721_223248.jpg.5139d9a3bfd6c5f0dc4273957d5df482.jpg

I honestly don't see what your aversion is to the Toji's sister thing. It's perfectly in-line with the events of the series, and the general atrocities Ritsuko & Gendo commit. It's a good thing I didn't get into the whole "Kowaru's body is probably cloned from Gendo" thing.

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10 hours ago, tekering said:

That's got nothing to do with Evangelion.  He's describing the premise of Westworld season 3. 😎

I know silly.;) I just thought it was funny that his conspiracy rant sorta matched up with Evangelion for a bit there.:lol:

Alex Jones is a wacko. I can't take him for more than about 2min.

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So this is 6ft tall?

It's a good thing I don't have FU money. I'd get this along with a 6' tall Alien, Terminator and Predator for my home theater.

fnx245_03.jpg

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8 hours ago, Keith said:

- Unit-00's soul is/was Rei. The specifics of how Lilith's soul is split/fractured/dubbed isn't specifically gone into, but the overall precedent for it is the existence of the dummy plug system.

The rage during 00's first psync test lean's toward the soul being Rei-I. The vision Rei has of herself during the later sync test proves overall that it's a "Rei," and the discussion with herself she has during 00's corruption as well as the personality shift in Rei-III points to a rejoining of I & II into III.

EDIT: Accidentally submitted prematurely. Wop wop. Working on it.

EDIT 2: Well, computer accidentally shut off mid-edit, so you get the CliffNotes response, sorry.

 

Right, I read that bit of EvaGeeks, and it's compelling evidence, but again, the lack of an explicit statement within the "text" of the show itself, plus all the other vagueries of the show, leads me to leave it, and the idea of souls being needed at all, and specifically the souls of the pilots' mothers, in the gray zone of authenticity.

I do like the idea, though, don't get me wrong.

8 hours ago, Keith said:

- Naoko was never in an Eva, she was split into all 3 MAGI, this is pretty plainly stated. Ritsuko has no connection to 00, but has various confrontations with her mother in MAGI form.

A couple responses:

1) I never took the MAGI setup to mean that her actual soul had been partitioned into the three MAGI supercomputers, simply that their behavior had been patterned after aspects of herself. A Dummy System of their own, so to speak.

2) I mentioned the ineptness with which Nerv handles the esoteric technologies it uses above to reinforce the idea that they didn't (before Yui, and maybe for some time after) fully know that a soul had to be present inside an Eva, and still currently don't know how exactly to go about putting one in there. The only other experiment we know of that tried to replicate Unit 01's assimilation of Yui was Unit 02's assimilation of Kyoko, and that was something of a failure. Only part of her soul was assimilated into the Eva, leading to her psychosis and eventual suicide... perhaps whereupon the rest of her soul joined in? If Unit 00 assimilated either Naoko or Rei I's soul, I assumed it did so passively, ie it was going to suck in the soul of any person who died in its vicinity, and Naoko/Rei I sufficed. If part of Rei's soul is inside Eva 00, it begs the question: Why? Why would Nerv, assuming they know that a soul is required and how and etc., not only put her soul in there, but put a fraction of her soul in there? And if they did so and it worked, why wouldn't they just do that for the rest of them? Yes, there's talk about better sync ratio and whatnot, but... the Double Rei Pilot-Soul System works. It's proof of concept that you DON'T need a pilot's mother's soul inside their Eva in order to sync with it. The fact that Rei and Shinji are able to swap Evas and sync with different "mothers" also kind of says as much...

8 hours ago, Keith said:

- Eva series 5 - 13 are all Kowaru/dummy plug based, so it's likely the souls are also Adam based.

The fact that you have to qualify that statement with "likely" reinforces my point. It's canon that Evas need their pilots' mothers' souls inside them, but that canon is often enough abused that I feel comfortable disregarding it entirely. The only Evas for whom it is vitally important that they have their pilots' mothers' souls inside them are Unit 01 and, to a lesser extent, Unit 02.

8 hours ago, Keith said:

- Which takes us back to Unit-04.

Unit 03, but I take your meaning. (Unit 04 is the one blown up in Nevada(?) during the experimental S2 engine installation.)

8 hours ago, Keith said:

Recall again that Ritsuko explicitly states that Toji's selection was directly tied to a core being readily available to prep for him. This isn't a difficult mystery to solve.

Fair point. I imagine the language is... vague... about it, but all the same.

8 hours ago, Keith said:

The "only" instance of an Eva functioning without a soul was conditional When Kowaru took control of 02 he was able to do so because like Asuka, her mother"s soul retreated inward. For that time Kowaru himself served as the Eva's soul, and you'll note he wasn't actually in the plug.

Unit 02 still has a soul, so it's not functioning without one. Kaworu is able to "synchronize" with that soul, receded into itself as it is, and pilot the Eva. I think he says something like "If there were no soul, I could be absorbed into it," indicating to me that the presence of a soul is stopping him from simply becoming the Eva a la Bardiel.

8 hours ago, Keith said:

- No one said 1.0 & 2.0 Asuka & Mari weren't the same, the question lies with Mari's existence in general, as well as Asuka's state in 3.0. I personally find Mari's mystery to be fun, especially since she's one of the rare series characters that doesn't have a "Nadia" or "Gunbuster" parallel. That just leaves her manga epilogue appearance as a clue, which is completely out of place unless viewed as a prologue to her Rebuild presence. I'm hoping 3.0+1.0 sheds any kind of light on her origin.

Mari's appearance in the manga I just took to be Sadamoto liking the design and wanting to use it in a fun, unexpected way. It wasn't made with the intent of tying back any more strongly to the Rebuilds. But, of course, fans being fans and people being people, they wanted there to be connections so they damn well made there be connections! and now we have... whatever we have in 3.0 and 4.0.

Or maybe it was intentional. It did come out after the first two Rebuilds, after all. Maybe it was a hint of things to come. Regardless, I just... don't care? about Mari as a character. I don't care much about the Rebuilds in general. I'm sure 4.0 will be good. Maybe it will make sense of the nonsense that was 3.0. Maybe not. Maybe we'll finally get a reason to care about Mari other than being another fanservice vehicle.

Regarding Asuka, I don't remember any part of 3.0 implying that she's a clone a la Rei, which you claimed it did.

8 hours ago, Keith said:

I honestly don't see what your aversion is to the Toji's sister thing.

I've just never heard it, is all, and it seems rather tenuous and farfetched. Or well, maybe not the latter so much, but certainly the former.

Edited by kajnrig
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8 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

F:Nex EVANGELION UNIT 1 (Human Scale PVC Figure 234cm)
January 2022
Y3003000 (Yup. You read that right again. :lol: )
https://fnex.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=124

fnx245_01.jpg

 

Yah...the only reason I'm not preordering this one is because it isn't the superior design from the TV show. LOL!! That detail on the head is as mind-blowing as the price tag. The inside of the mouth looks incredible.

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8 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

That clear green is kinda sexy. but if I had that kind of money it would have to be a Unit-02

I know. Love those green parts. And from the description I think those things lights up too.

4 hours ago, sqidd said:

So this is 6ft tall?

It's a good thing I don't have FU money. I'd get this along with a 6' tall Alien, Terminator and Predator for my home theater.

At 234cm, that's probably somewhere at 7ft. Probably from the base to the antenna. It's going to be a huge statue. 

 

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15 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

At 234cm, that's probably somewhere at 7ft. Probably from the base to the antenna. It's going to be a huge statue. 

Imagine if they used the oversized TV shoulder pylons. 9 feet? That boy could tango with Vampire Mommy Milkers! :lol:

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1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

I know. Love those green parts. And from the description I think those things lights up too.

At 234cm, that's probably somewhere at 7ft. Probably from the base to the antenna. It's going to be a huge statue. 

 

The way the umbilical cable trails off in every picture, I think that you plug that into the wall to power the lights, and I love it.

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RAH figures

So, I have one of the latest release unit 01's and the joints are good. I have a older release Unit 02 (I don't think there are any new releases) and it's a floppy mess!

I want to pick up a Unit 02 "Beast mode" (it has a 'y or 'r on the box I can't tell what that is) or whatever it's called and a Unit 08.

Do you have either of these? Are they a floppy mess like the older Unit 02?

 

I just PO'd a new release Unit 13. Hopefully it's as tight as the new release 01's.

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18 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

The way the umbilical cable trails off in every picture, I think that you plug that into the wall to power the lights, and I love it.

Seriously, this thing is killing me! I want it BAD! There is just no way though.:(

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3 hours ago, General Rasp said:

Anyone up for a EVA 01 repaint?

https://www.bigbadtoystore.com/Product/VariationDetails/168585

The figure is good enough that I pre-ordered the repaint.

Yes, I'm weak. So I ordered it.:lol: Thanks for the link.:good:

Ok ThreeZero, are you really going to step up to the pump? I want a Unit 02 Kai, Unit 08, Unit 09, Unit 13 and Unit 01 Awakening. Going FULL EVA with a dedicated display. If Bandai makes all of them (never going to happen) it will take another 5yrs minimum.

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1 hour ago, sqidd said:

Yes, I'm weak. So I ordered it.:lol: Thanks for the link.:good:

Ok ThreeZero, are you really going to step up to the pump? I want a Unit 02 Kai, Unit 08, Unit 09, Unit 13 and Unit 01 Awakening. Going FULL EVA with a dedicated display. If Bandai makes all of them (never going to happen) it will take another 5yrs minimum.

5 years? Just a good amount of time to save, right? So order the statue now, @sqidd. You know, it's calling you, right? :good: :lol: 

fnx245_09.jpg

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3 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

Also available in tsundere redhead version:

https://www.amiami.com/eng/detail/?scode=TOY-SCL3-33140&rank=

Edited by Sanity is Optional
F***ing autocorrect.
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8 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

man I just want my Unit-02 now. look at that beautiful face.

p_fig2.png

The head sculpt on 01 is near perfect too. I love how these are turning out. RIP my wallet if they ever do the original designs too...

Edited by 100mega
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