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Star Trek: Picard (CBS All-Access)


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6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Quite true.  IMO, Star Trek had/has a pretty sensible containment strategy in considering licensee-created "expanded universe" materials non-canon and having a single creative team running the show (literally) for much of the franchise's life.

Not an airtight strategy by any means, but one that shielded the franchise from the kind of issues that its spiritual sibling Star Wars encountered with its pseudo-canon expanded universe.

Good point, Star Trek has had a pretty consistent stable of creatives, at least as it relates to TV and Movies. I'm not at all familiar with the novels and games.

One of the things I was happy about with the Disney acquisition of Star Wars and tossing out the EU was the thought that they'd create a tighter universe a la Marvel. Too bad that didn't work out with the Sequel Trilogy :5: ...but I digress. 

Maybe we're just one more reboot away from righting the ship with regards to Star Trek.

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Bringing Data back just to kill him again was a dick move on Picard's part.  Killing off Picard and bringing him back to life as an android with artificially-implanted memories and emotions?  That was a Philip K. Dick move.

Wait, is did this actually happen??? I still haven't watched any of the CBS all-access stuff so I rely on these threads to keep me informed. lol

 

4 hours ago, Thom said:

Personally, I liked Nemesis, at least far better than Insurrection. Shinzon was a good villain with a great back story that just really failed with the standard 'destroy Earth' syndrome.

Agreed. Nemesis was bad, but it was not Insurrection bad. And I agree about Shinzon, that was a wasted opportunity to really cultivate an interesting anti-Picard.

 

I really, really, really, really wish Star Trek was in a place where the conversations centered around how interesting the characters are and how innovative the story telling is. For the record, that's not a dig on the fans, but a dig at the folks making the creative decisions. But oh well.

-b.

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39 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Good point, Star Trek has had a pretty consistent stable of creatives, at least as it relates to TV and Movies. I'm not at all familiar with the novels and games.

The so-called "Relaunch" novelverse also had a fairly consistent stable of creatives working together with a shared, coordinated direction for the story and setting... but their work was hit or miss.  The rest of the novels/comics/games/etc. was your standard "whoever's willing to pay for a license" kind of arrangement and was less consistent.

 

39 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Wait, is did this actually happen??? I still haven't watched any of the CBS all-access stuff so I rely on these threads to keep me informed. lol

Oof... I should probably have spoiler tagged that.

Spoiler

Yeah, it did happen.

If you remember back in "All Good Things", future!Picard (c.2395) was slowly dying from a terminal brain disorder called Irumodic Syndrome.  Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: Picard seems to have that same terminal brain disorder, and actually dies from it in the first season's final episode shortly after Starfleet arrives to save the day.  Dr. Soong and Dr. Jurati "save" Picard by downloading the contents of his dying brain into an android body in a manner kind of like what Soong did to his ex-wife back in TNG.

So the original human!Jean-Luc Picard is dead and in his place is android!Jean-Luc Picard, whose android body has none of the superpowers that a Soong type android is known for and is programmed to self-terminate at the end of what would've been his natural lifespan minus the terminal brain condition.  android!Picard sincerely believes he's the real Jean-Luc Picard, just like android!Tainer believed she was the real Julia Tainer, but whether he is or not is open for debate.  Unlike Dr. Tainer's android double, android!Picard is aware that he is an android.

If Picard is picked up for a second season, I have a feeling the existential crisis of whether or not android!Picard is truly Jean-Luc Picard or just a very convincing copy of Jean-Luc Picard will feature prominently in its story.  

 

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2 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

So basically: what's to prevent them from creating an army of Picards using copies of the memories and a slew of pre-built bodies. Just do a PXE-type mass install and you're good to go...

Could that make Picardi the new Borg?:shok:

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1 hour ago, JB0 said:

They could all combine into a Picard-Voltron, with a backbone made of Picards!

 

I'm sorry, I'll see myself out.

Only if they change the name to "Picard Troopers" & rework the "VR Troopers" theme in kind.

"WE ARE PICARD...TROOPERS."

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7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Fear of them collapsing into each other to form some kind of singularity of extremely insincere misplaced regret?  Or concern that they might drown in a tidal wave of crocodile tears.

Maybe Soong can build one with a bit of the original Picard's backbone?

Or the mother of "why you suck speeches" to all the Federation's enemies :D

Edited by pengbuzz
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  • 2 months later...
38 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

Hm... I wonder how bad this latest round of budget cuts were.

Picard started with just ten episodes in its first season.  They can't cut many more before it becomes a miniseries.

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54 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hm... I wonder how bad this latest round of budget cuts were.

Picard started with just ten episodes in its first season.  They can't cut many more before it becomes a miniseries.

They probably:

- Changed from covering the backdrops in electrical tape to covering them in masking tape;

- Convinced the cast to wear clothes from home to save on wardrobe costs;

- Begun substituting cardboard models for the CGI;

- Cut costs on sound effects by having the SFX crew yell "PEW PEW PEW!!!" onstage during filming;

and

- Cut budget on SFX further by substituting phaser fire effects with silly string.

They cut corners any further and Paramount will sue CBS for violating the fan production rules that state all fan productions can only be 15 minutes long!

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3 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

They probably:

- Changed from covering the backdrops in electrical tape to covering them in masking tape;

It's all green screens, so probably not.

 

3 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

- Convinced the cast to wear clothes from home to save on wardrobe costs;

... that's different from what they've been doing how?

Star Trek has always kind of danced around the idea of future fashion, but Picard's wardrobe seemed to be ripped from contemporary closets for the most part.

Seriously, look at the cast.  Everyone's wearing polo shirts, cable knit sweaters, and jeans except the Romulans, who are just wearing leather.

 

3 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

- Cut costs on sound effects by having the SFX crew yell "PEW PEW PEW!!!" onstage during filming;

Ah, the Ewan McGregor maneuver.

 

3 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

They cut corners any further and Paramount will sue CBS for violating the fan production rules that state all fan productions can only be 15 minutes long!

It almost feels like we're headed in that direction.

The production values of Picard's first season were already pretty poor for what the show allegedly cost to make.  

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11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's all green screens, so probably not.

  That's what I mean: it would cost less to simulate masking tape than electrical tape, that's how shoestring they're running it!

 

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... that's different from what they've been doing how?

Good point.

  

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Star Trek has always kind of danced around the idea of future fashion, but Picard's wardrobe seemed to be ripped from contemporary closets for the most part.

Seriously, look at the cast.  Everyone's wearing polo shirts, cable knit sweaters, and jeans except the Romulans, who are just wearing leather.

Sorry, I was too busy laughing at Discount Spock.

  

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, the Ewan McGregor maneuver.

ROFL!!

 

  

11 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It almost feels like we're headed in that direction.

The production values of Picard's first season were already pretty poor for what the show allegedly cost to make.  

Right?

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9 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Right?

Yeah, I'm not at all enthusiastic for Star Trek: Picard's second season.

There's nowhere for the story to go... unless Jean-Luc Picard and/or Starfleet is going to spend the next ten episodes grapping with the fact that he's not really Jean-Luc Picard.  He's a replicant that thinks he's Jean-Luc Picard.

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4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, I'm not at all enthusiastic for Star Trek: Picard's second season.

There's nowhere for the story to go... unless Jean-Luc Picard and/or Starfleet is going to spend the next ten episodes grapping with the fact that he's not really Jean-Luc Picard.  He's a replicant that thinks he's Jean-Luc Picard.

Picard Trek II: The Search for Plot. Either that, or he convinces Starfleet to send every ship they can with a water cannon to put out Mars.

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45 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Picard Trek II: The Search for Plot. Either that, or he convinces Starfleet to send every ship they can with a water cannon to put out Mars.

Star Trek: Picard didn't leave itself a sequel hook to build on in "Et in Arcadia Ego Part II", which was a rather odd choice given that it was supposed to be an ongoing series.

There's no obvious direction for the story to continue in for its second season.  Jean-Luc Picard died trying to save the (incredibly cynically named1) planet Coppelius from the Romulans, Starfleet arrived just in time to save the day, and Sutra's plan to summon extradimensional artificial lifeforms to destroy all sentient life is foiled.  Picard had assembled his crew for one reason only: to locate and save Dahj's twin sister.  That was the only reason any of them stayed together and everyone's minimal character arcs were resolved by the end of "Et in Arcadia Ego Part II".  Rios got vindication for his dead captain and the crew of the ibn Majid who were cashiered out of the service by Oh after assassinating the delegation from Coppelius.  Musiker got snubbed by her son because of her crappy decisions but was ultimately vindicated in proving that the Romulans had infiltrated Starfleet and were responsible for sabotaging the evacuation of Romulus.  Dr. Jurati found Bruce Maddox (and murdered him) then met the Soong-type android population on Coppelius that were her life's ambition.  Seven of Nine got revenge for Icheb by killing his murderer in cold blood.  Elnor had no ambition besides Picard's mission.

What's left to build on?  The only unfinished job in season one's story was taking Dr. Jurati to the nearest Federation starbase to be arrested and stand trial for the murder of Bruce Maddox.  The Federation has more or less abolished the death penalty, so her fate will be serving a long rehabilitation sentence in a comfortable Federation penal colony like the one in New Zealand seen in Star Trek: Voyager.  

It's unlikely they'll get much mileage out of the fact that Jean-Luc Picard died and was replaced by a replicant that thinks it's Jean-Luc Picard.  He's not a Starfleet officer anymore and he has no security clearances to speak of, so nobody really has any stake in that except his few remaining friends and anyone who might want to argue the philosophical point about whether the Picard replicant is the same person as the flesh-and-blood Jean-Luc Picard or whether or not it has a soul.  (Picard's friends, also being old friends of Data's, are likely to take this in stride and not think too hard about it.)

 

1. As a reference to Coppelia, the name implies that the showrunners and/or this latest Dr. Soong don't think that the androids are people.

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27 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

(Picard's friends, also being old friends of Data's, are likely to take this in stride and not think too hard about it.)

Also being part of a society that considers complete disintegration and reconstruction a safe and efficient form of travel. Arguably everyone dies every time they go through a transporter. 

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12 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Also being part of a society that considers complete disintegration and reconstruction a safe and efficient form of travel. Arguably everyone dies every time they go through a transporter. 

That, in and of itself, was implied to be a pretty fun philosophical argument in-universe and definitely was outside of it... at least until the showrunners spoiled it by revealing that a person maintained continuity of consciousness throughout the entire transport process and could literally feel themself in two places at once during the process (as in "Realm of Fear").  That kind of had some fridge horror of its own when taken with "Relics" and "Counterpoint" where people were stored in transporter buffers for very long times... presumably aware but helpless the entire time.

 

Jean-Luc Picard didn't have continuity of consciousness during his alleged transfer into the golem body Dr. Soong had created, so it's open to debate whether that golem is Jean-Luc Picard or just a replicant that thinks it's Jean-Luc Picard because it has copies of his memories.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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18 hours ago, Keith said:

New Starship named Picard, captained by Riker.

There's your plot.

Y'know... that's more or less what everyone from the online pundits to casual fans predicted was going to happen when the word leaked that Patrick Stewart was too expensive for the show and that his character going to be killed off at the end of the show's first season.  

It certainly wouldn't be without precedent.  24th century Starfleet had named at least two ships after deceased Starfleet officers in canon: the USS Chekhov in TNG (among the ships lost at Wolf 359) and USS Archer in Nemesis.  The relaunch novelverse had a USS James T. Kirk as well.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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  • 3 months later...

Remember when Star Trek: Picard's showrunners were adamant that their series was going to focus on developing the new characters?  How it wasn't going to be a TNG cast reunion?

Funny how that worked out. :rolleyes:

 

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12 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Remember when Star Trek: Picard's showrunners were adamant that their series was going to focus on developing the new characters?  How it wasn't going to be a TNG cast reunion?

Funny how that worked out. :rolleyes:

Well, die-hard Star Trek fans are the only audience they can expect to keep watching... and there's kind of a battered woman syndrome going on there.

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20 minutes ago, tekering said:

Well, die-hard Star Trek fans are the only audience they can expect to keep watching... and there's kind of a battered woman syndrome going on there.

Can they even expect die-hard Star Trek fans to keep watching?

From what I've heard, Paramount+'s subscriber counts are in the toilet right out of the gate and die-hard fans are still drifting away from the franchise because of Discovery and Picard.

ViacomCBS seems to be having a difficult time finding investors willing to fund its streaming properties as well.  Two weeks ago, they announced a $3 billion stock sell-off to fund their future streaming developments and their stock price almost immediately cratered.  VIAC lost over 55% of its value in just six days with major holders liquidating their stakes.  It's now trading well below its 5 year average.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Two things:

 

1) The painting of the ship and the model of the Stargazer probably shouldn't be in his chateau (unless they're recreations via holodeck tech). Most likely, both were destroyed when the E-D saucer did its' crash landing on Veridian III (unless my memory is off, which it may be).

2) Q? Seriously?  Talk about desperation....

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7 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Two things:

 

1) The painting of the ship and the model of the Stargazer probably shouldn't be in his chateau (unless they're recreations via holodeck tech). Most likely, both were destroyed when the E-D saucer did its' crash landing on Veridian III (unless my memory is off, which it may be).

Well, for most of Star Trek: Picard's first season the chateau itself was a hologram in La Sirena's holosuite (AKA Picard's quarters)... and may still be in this case as well.  

Though the painting of the Stargazer could just as easily be a replicator "print" rather than the original.

 

7 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

2) Q? Seriously?  Talk about desperation....

Yeah... about the only news coverage Picard gets is speculation about which TNG veteran will be making an appearance next.

Which makes it so very ironic that the showrunners originally made such bold declarations that the show was going to focus on the original characters and wouldn't devote itself to walk-on roles for TNG regulars the way it's currently doing.

 

43 minutes ago, derex3592 said:

I dunno......I might give Season 2 a go with Q in it...I mean...how bad could it be?:blink:

DON'T. TEMPT. FATE.

This is, after all, the same series that decided Picard should be a sad old man apologizing for white privilege in an civilization that's been postracial for centuries, that tortured Icheb to death to add some cheap pathos to Seven of Nine's character, and felt the only way to make a black or latino character relatable was to have their characterization be 99% racist stereotypes.  These show runners see "how low can you go?" as a challenge, not a condemnation.

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4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, for most of Star Trek: Picard's first season the chateau itself was a hologram in La Sirena's holosuite (AKA Picard's quarters)... and may still be in this case as well.  

Though the painting of the Stargazer could just as easily be a replicator "print" rather than the original.

True. I wonder if that reduces the value of collectibles?

*replicates ton of Macross merch* :D

  

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah... about the only news coverage Picard gets is speculation about which TNG veteran will be making an appearance next.

Which makes it so very ironic that the showrunners originally made such bold declarations that the show was going to focus on the original characters and wouldn't devote itself to walk-on roles for TNG regulars the way it's currently doing.

They're grasping at straws, to say the least. At the start they make these declarations, only to find that they've painted themselves into a corner with their own words and are forced to try every cheap trick imaginable to keep their warp-powered dumpster fire from going out.

 

  

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

DON'T. TEMPT. FATE.

This is, after all, the same series that decided Picard should be a sad old man apologizing for white privilege in an civilization that's been postracial for centuries, that tortured Icheb to death to add some cheap pathos to Seven of Nine's character, and felt the only way to make a black or latino character relatable was to have their characterization be 99% racist stereotypes.  These show runners see "how low can you go?" as a challenge, not a condemnation.

Too bad Picard couldn't have blown up the Enterprise during the Battle of the Bassen Rift. A far better fate than this series, to be sure...

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On 4/7/2021 at 8:18 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Can they even expect die-hard Star Trek fans to keep watching?

From what I've heard, Paramount+'s subscriber counts are in the toilet right out of the gate and die-hard fans are still drifting away from the franchise because of Discovery and Picard.

All the way up until the point where those fans are dead.  Seriously, how many millennials gives a crack about Star Trek, most of them would like at Kirk as some chauvinistic pig, and Picard as some old white dude who overstayed his welcome.  Don't get me started on Sisko and Janeway, caricature of good minority and a total Karen based on today's view point.  How many people would actually care.  For the viewers that matter (not us mainly), Star Trek shows are like an attempt to resurrect the dead which needs to be put down.

ST:P is just another example of this.  A nasty old man trying to keep up with the times and clinging on to whatever little dignity he has left trying to live 30 years in the past.

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Well, if they had wanted to focus on all new characters, then they should have left out Picard... Or just had him be a guest every now and then. Once the Big Guy is there though, the next question is just naturally, 'who else is going to show?' One follows the others.

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