Black Widow

[jenius]

The movie made $80m... It's opening weekend in actual theaters. I believe the movie is actually projecting profitability which would be very impressive given the climate. I haven't seen it... Probably won't for a very long time.

I feel like everyone on the internet thirsts for negativity.

Edited August 4, 2021 by jenius

[Bolt]

54 minutes ago, jenius said:

I haven't seen it... Probably won't for a very long time.

Same. 

 

54 minutes ago, jenius said:

I feel like everyone on the internet thirsts for negativity.

Agreed 

[Alex GS]

I think it was barely ok and still waaaay below the quality and excitement of past marvel movies like Iron Man, Thor , Guardians of the Galaxy or Captain America.

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Actor contracts (like this one) were written with the belief that the theaters would keep their contracts as is - but the situation forced the theaters to renegotiate with the studios which made a problem for the actor contracts.

Exactly... this whole brouhaha is about the fundamental assumptions that were made when the contracts were drafted pre-pandemic.  

Periwinkle Entertainment - and likely most of the rest of the industry - didn't think it was worth the extra trouble to explicitly define various terms in the contract they negotiated in light of how the industry operated at the time.  When the pandemic forced theaters to close, the industry had to radically rethink its whole mode of operation and the assumptions underpinning those undefined terms were no longer valid.  So now you have this situation where Disney complied with the letter of the contract, but Periwinkle and Johansson are crying foul because the new reality of the industry means the assumptions they tied their compensation to were faulty and won't produce as much money.

EDIT: I suspect Periwinkle Ent. was expecting Black Widow to be a billion dollar affair like Captain Marvel, and are especially put out that its box office performance is middling at best.  That definitely explains the wishful-thinking argument that they make that the movie would've made megabucks if only Marvel kept delaying it until the theaters recover (if they ever do).

 

9 hours ago, sqidd said:

I think what is the most entertaining is that the movie only "made" $80M.

Pretty weak for a movie that cost at least $200M to make AND is an Avengers movie.

Disney lists the current global take from Black Widow at $334.5M.  

That said, those budgets don't include advertising spending... which, all things considered, likely means another $150-200M in spending that needs to be recouped for the film to break even.  With the Disney+ sales factored in, they're likely close to, or already past, the break-even point for the film.  I've seen it said that receipts for Disney+ put sales of the film at around $60M just for premium streaming.

At the very least, it's in no danger of being the worst-performing MCU film... it's already blown well past the 2008 The Incredible Hulk film that only grossed $265M on a $150M budget.

 

9 hours ago, sqidd said:

You'e movie was trash Scarjo. What you should be doing is firing your agent for getting you in a contract that paid you off box office receipts. Seriously, how delusional does she nave to be to think that was going to net her a big payday? The movie was never going to make money.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it trash.

It's definitely a bad movie, IMO... but if you find everyone doing their worst fake Russian accent amusing it could almost be a good-bad movie.

Many of the MCU movies were practically a license to print money, so Johansson and Periwinkle Ent.'s belief that this movie could've been a blockbuster aren't exactly unfounded.  Especially since this was supposed to be a big to-do for the girl power crowd similar to Captain Marvel.

 

6 hours ago, jenius said:

I feel like everyone on the internet thirsts for negativity.

... you could lose the "on the internet" part and it'd still be true.  It's been true of humanity in general for... as long as there's been humanity in general.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Seto Kaiba

[sqidd]

10 hours ago, jenius said:

The movie made $80m... It's opening weekend in actual theaters. I believe the movie is actually projecting profitability which would be very impressive given the climate. I haven't seen it... Probably won't for a very long time.

I feel like everyone on the internet thirsts for negativity.

I screwed that up. I think I got those numbers out of those lawyer videos???

I just hot some Google. As far as I can tell the movie took in $264M worldwide and $60M through streaming. Not exactly knocking it out of the park against a $200M budget (which are always disclosed low).

Yeah, I suppose $100M-ish margin is not a bad ROI. Not exactly Black Panther 1.344B, Thor Ragnorok $854M or Captain Marvel (which was a massive stinker) at $1.128B though.

I don't think Scarjo tying her paycheck to ticket sales was a great idea. She seems to make a lot of bad choices......

[sqidd]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Exactly... this whole brouhaha is about the fundamental assumptions that were made when the contracts were drafted pre-pandemic.  

Periwinkle Entertainment - and likely most of the rest of the industry - didn't think it was worth the extra trouble to explicitly define various terms in the contract they negotiated in light of how the industry operated at the time.  When the pandemic forced theaters to close, the industry had to radically rethink its whole mode of operation and the assumptions underpinning those undefined terms were no longer valid.  So now you have this situation where Disney complied with the letter of the contract, but Periwinkle and Johansson are crying foul because the new reality of the industry means the assumptions they tied their compensation to were faulty and won't produce as much money.

 

Have you read your homeowners insurance policy? Mine says I'm not covered for damage cause by missiles or space debris. Whomever wrote that really has it dialed in!

Periwinkle Entertainment's job is to put iron clad contracts together for their customers. Not adding something like war or a pandemic in the verbiage is frankly missing the easy stuff. IMO they failed Scarjo. Maybe she should be suing them.

 

[sqidd]

11 hours ago, jenius said:

I feel like everyone on the internet thirsts for negativity.

I agree that there is a portion of the population that thirsts for negativity and conflict. My very non scientific conclusion is that's about 15-20%.

The majority is people that aren't looking to spew negativity, but, they will take the opportunity when offered.

I personally don't engage in much negativity on the net. I actually have rules in place in an attempt to keep me from doing it more. In this case I think Scarjo is a insufferable human being, so yeah, I'm all too happy to pile on.

[sh9000]

The blu-ray comes out on 9/14.  I’ll add it to all of my other Marvel movies on blu-ray.  My wife and I will continue to enjoy scifi and comic book movies.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, sqidd said:

Have you read your homeowners insurance policy? Mine says I'm not covered for damage cause by missiles or space debris. Whomever wrote that really has it dialed in!

Periwinkle Entertainment's job is to put iron clad contracts together for their customers. Not adding something like war or a pandemic in the verbiage is frankly missing the easy stuff. IMO they failed Scarjo. Maybe she should be suing them.

It's all about what's probable.

Really, Johansson probably should be considering suing Periwinkle Ent. over the negligent handling of her contract.  That the attorneys representing them, and her, in negotiations with Disney's Marvel Studios focused exclusively on bonuses tied to the gross box office receipts shows a lack of foresight completely independent of the changes that the pandemic forced upon the industry.  Streaming has been on the rise for ages as a supplement/replacement for the home video market, and "personal digital library" sort of streaming arrangements like Apple's and Google's are a nontrivial profit center for studios.  If her agency had asked for a share of streaming revenues from the film too, she'd be sitting pretty on a share of the $60 million and counting Disney+ has raked in from Black Widow to console herself about the loss of box office bonuses with.

[jenius]

I suspect that would be suing herself...

[azrael]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... the attorneys representing them, and her, in negotiations with Disney's Marvel Studios focused exclusively on bonuses tied to the gross box office receipts shows a lack of foresight completely independent of the changes that the pandemic forced upon the industry.  Streaming has been on the rise for ages as a supplement/replacement for the home video market, and "personal digital library" sort of streaming arrangements like Apple's and Google's are a nontrivial profit center for studios.  If her agency had asked for a share of streaming revenues from the film too, she'd be sitting pretty on a share of the $60 million and counting Disney+ has raked in from Black Widow to console herself about the loss of box office bonuses with.

Hindsight is 20/20. In the pre-pandemic days, bonuses tied to box office receipts would be acceptable. You can track repeated viewings through ticket sales, essentially. This movie finished principal and reshoot filming well before March 2020 and was well into post-production since it's original release date was May 2020. But this was and is fine and dandy...pre-pandemic. Then the world went to hell. As soon as the 1st of the 3 delay announcements came and talk of going straight to streaming came down, new contract negotiations should have started. Verbal or non-notarized assurances aren't worth they air space they occupy.

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, azrael said:

 As soon as the 1st of the 3 delay announcements came and talk of going straight to streaming came down, new contract negotiations should have started. Verbal or non-notarized assurances aren't worth they air space they occupy.

Did that delay announcement come before or after filming was done?  After that and the actor has nothing to negotiate with - her part was already done.  Failing to act in the film (if earlier) would have made her liable for breach of contract too.

[azrael]

3 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Did that delay announcement come before or after filming was done?  After that and the actor has nothing to negotiate with - her part was already done.  Failing to act in the film (if earlier) would have made her liable for breach of contract too.

After. The first announcement would have come around April 2020(?). Ms. Johannson did serve as executive producer on this flick.

[Dynaman]

18 hours ago, azrael said:

After. The first announcement would have come around April 2020(?). Ms. Johannson did serve as executive producer on this flick.

"executive producer".  Hollywood speak for somebody wanting an extra credit without having to do anything.  (or if she actually WAS acting as a producer that is something that could easily be passed off to someone else leaving her no leverage to demand the contract be renegotiated).

[sqidd]

14 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

"executive producer".  Hollywood speak for somebody wanting an extra credit without having to do anything.  (or if she actually WAS acting as a producer that is something that could easily be passed off to someone else leaving her no leverage to demand the contract be renegotiated).

I love the TV series Get Shorty for how much fun it makes of producers.

[pengbuzz]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:52 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's all about what's probable.

Really, Johansson probably should be considering suing Periwinkle Ent. over the negligent handling of her contract.  That the attorneys representing them, and her, in negotiations with Disney's Marvel Studios focused exclusively on bonuses tied to the gross box office receipts shows a lack of foresight completely independent of the changes that the pandemic forced upon the industry.  Streaming has been on the rise for ages as a supplement/replacement for the home video market, and "personal digital library" sort of streaming arrangements like Apple's and Google's are a nontrivial profit center for studios.  If her agency had asked for a share of streaming revenues from the film too, she'd be sitting pretty on a share of the $60 million and counting Disney+ has raked in from Black Widow to console herself about the loss of box office bonuses with.

Yeah, from what you described here, it sounds like Periwinkle may have convinced her to sue the studios in order to deflect blame from themselves.

[Seto Kaiba]

52 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

"executive producer".  Hollywood speak for somebody wanting an extra credit without having to do anything.  (or if she actually WAS acting as a producer that is something that could easily be passed off to someone else leaving her no leverage to demand the contract be renegotiated).

For most intents and purposes, an Executive Producer is someone who has just enough clout that the producers have to at least pretend to consult them on decisions regarding the production but not enough clout that the producers have to actually heed their opinion.

 

Just now, pengbuzz said:

Yeah, from what you described here, it sounds like Periwinkle may have convinced her to sue the studios in order to deflect blame from themselves.

Granted, Periwinkle Ent. probably aren't Johansson's favorite people right now and they're probably quite keen to redirect her ire towards Disney and Marvel Studios... but I'd wager a greater portion of their motivation is money.  Odds are their compensation comes in the form of a percentage of Johansson's fee and bonuses for performing, meaning the decision Disney made to send Black Widow to streaming in parallel with its theatrical release resulted in a non-trivial loss of income for them as well.  (As noted previously, the reason that the filing is so fixated on the idea that Black Widow would've done better if delayed indefinitely until theaters recovered from the pandemic may have been that they expected the film to repeat Captain Marvel's $1B+ box office draw.)

[pengbuzz]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

For most intents and purposes, an Executive Producer is someone who has just enough clout that the producers have to at least pretend to consult them on decisions regarding the production but not enough clout that the producers have to actually heed their opinion.

 

Granted, Periwinkle Ent. probably aren't Johansson's favorite people right now and they're probably quite keen to redirect her ire towards Disney and Marvel Studios... but I'd wager a greater portion of their motivation is money.  Odds are their compensation comes in the form of a percentage of Johansson's fee and bonuses for performing, meaning the decision Disney made to send Black Widow to streaming in parallel with its theatrical release resulted in a non-trivial loss of income for them as well.  (As noted previously, the reason that the filing is so fixated on the idea that Black Widow would've done better if delayed indefinitely until theaters recovered from the pandemic may have been that they expected the film to repeat Captain Marvel's $1B+ box office draw.)

Well, they could always release Black Widow: The Super-Exclusive Director's Cut Special Edition in a few years....

 

[jenius]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

For most intents and purposes, an Executive Producer is someone who has just enough clout that the producers have to at least pretend to consult them on decisions regarding the production but not enough clout that the producers have to actually heed their opinion.

 

Granted, Periwinkle Ent. probably aren't Johansson's favorite people right now and they're probably quite keen to redirect her ire towards Disney and Marvel Studios... but I'd wager a greater portion of their motivation is money.  Odds are their compensation comes in the form of a percentage of Johansson's fee and bonuses for performing, meaning the decision Disney made to send Black Widow to streaming in parallel with its theatrical release resulted in a non-trivial loss of income for them as well.  (As noted previously, the reason that the filing is so fixated on the idea that Black Widow would've done better if delayed indefinitely until theaters recovered from the pandemic may have been that they expected the film to repeat Captain Marvel's $1B+ box office draw.)

Isn't Periwinkle her company? Like Letterman's Worldwide Pants? 

[technoblue]

48 minutes ago, jenius said:

Isn't Periwinkle her company? Like Letterman's Worldwide Pants? 

According to this, yes.

https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_ca/C1939504

I was assuming Seto was making some kind of a joke since the representing law firm is Kasowitz Benson Torres LLP and it is clearly noted in the filling that they are representing ScarJo and Periwinkle Entertainment.

Edited August 6, 2021 by technoblue

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, technoblue said:

I was assuming Seto was making some kind of a joke since the representing law firm is Kasowitz Benson Torres LLP and it is clearly noted in the filling that they are representing ScarJo and Periwinkle Entertainment.

Not a joke so much as a genuine musing that Johansson probably isn't too happy with her representation for costing her millions by failing basic legal diligence.  (Mind you, as long as there are certain insurances in place it's quite possible to sue a business you own - or even yourself - to collect an insurance payout in some circumstances without the business being sued incurring a significant loss as a result.)

[pengbuzz]

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not a joke so much as a genuine musing that Johansson probably isn't too happy with her representation for costing her millions by failing basic legal diligence.  (Mind you, as long as there are certain insurances in place it's quite possible to sue a business you own - or even yourself - to collect an insurance payout in some circumstances without the business being sued incurring a significant loss as a result.)

Sounds like it's gaming their own company's insurance policy to make it pay out...

 

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Sounds like it's gaming their own company's insurance policy to make it pay out...

 

Now I see where the "Executive Producer" bit is coming in.   Zero Mostel would be proud!

[jenius]

WTF? We went from ScarJo is going to lose (which loses sight of why the suit exists) to ScarJo should sue herself for insurance purposes? I'm glad ScarJo isn't paying MW for legal advice.  Maybe we should focus more on talking about super heroes and their movies... that's more up our alley. 

Speaking of which, the ONE reason I do want to see this film is the talk about how this movie passes the Black Widow torch to her younger sister. I'm sure there will be future Marvel movies I find really interesting so when she suddenly pops up I'd rather be like "Oh fun, it's that girl" instead of "Oh, guess she's the new Black Widow."

I've also heard lots of talk about horrible Russian accents. Should Marvel be facing a controversy for not hiring more Russians in this film OR is it okay not to hire Russians because they'll largely be depicted as the bad guys in this film? 

[azrael]

1 hour ago, jenius said:

Speaking of which, the ONE reason I do want to see this film is the talk about how this movie passes the Black Widow torch to her younger sister. I'm sure there will be future Marvel movies I find really interesting so when she suddenly pops up I'd rather be like "Oh fun, it's that girl" instead of "Oh, guess she's the new Black Widow."

The sass and little sister-vibe is strong in Florence Pugh's Yelena Belova. And we'll be seeing her again in Hawkeye.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, jenius said:

WTF? We went from ScarJo is going to lose (which loses sight of why the suit exists) to ScarJo should sue herself for insurance purposes? I'm glad ScarJo isn't paying MW for legal advice.  Maybe we should focus more on talking about super heroes and their movies... that's more up our alley. 

It's less WTF-y than it sounds... Johansson's trying to recover what she sees as lost profit share from Black Widow, yes?  She can sue Disney, but the allegations made in her suit about breach of contract are beyond flimsy and she's unlikely to get anywhere if it actually goes before a judge.  Success or failure there is dependent on how willing Disney is willing to pay her to STFU in order to silence the modest amount of bad PR news of the suit is generating.  One way to recoup that "loss" due to what is arguably negligent handling of the contract is to have the company insurance pay out part of the difference. 😉 

 

2 hours ago, jenius said:

Speaking of which, the ONE reason I do want to see this film is the talk about how this movie passes the Black Widow torch to her younger sister. I'm sure there will be future Marvel movies I find really interesting so when she suddenly pops up I'd rather be like "Oh fun, it's that girl" instead of "Oh, guess she's the new Black Widow."

It deserves a resounding "eh"...

 

2 hours ago, jenius said:

I've also heard lots of talk about horrible Russian accents. Should Marvel be facing a controversy for not hiring more Russians in this film OR is it okay not to hire Russians because they'll largely be depicted as the bad guys in this film? 

Honestly?  The hilariously bad fake Russian accents are one of the best parts of the film.

It's so accidentally ham that it really lends a note of unintended comedy to the whole affair.

It's (nominally) a superhero movie, so I think it kind of gets a free pass partly because it's depicting Cartoonish Villainy and partly because superhero features are expected to have a certain air of strained realism.

[sqidd]

21 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

..................may have been that they expected the film to repeat Captain Marvel's $1B+ box office draw.)

[sh9000]

Release date for digital is 8/10.  I’ll wait for the blu-ray.

[sh9000]

 

[sh9000]

https://www.tmz.com/2021/09/30/scarlett-johansson-disney-settle-black-widow-lawsuit/

[jenius]

They say she made $40MM from this lawsuit... so not so silly after all!

[Big s]

That’s a good chunk of change 

[sqidd]

4 hours ago, jenius said:

They say she made $40MM from this lawsuit... so not so silly after all!

Hopefully she's black listed by the studios now. She's insufferable. 

[technoblue]

7 hours ago, jenius said:

They say she made $40MM from this lawsuit... so not so silly after all!

A settlement is exactly the outcome that I was expecting. Removing all the noise from the lawyers and the haters, this was a contract dispute at its base level. The two parties came to a mutual agreement and…that’s all, folks! 

[jenius]

4 hours ago, sqidd said:

Hopefully she's black listed by the studios now. She's insufferable. 

 

I think you're not in luck, part of the discussion of the settlement is how happy everyone is to get back to all the projects they have planned together.