Macross Δ (Delta) Movie Gekijō no Walkūre (Passionate Walkure)

[Sandman]

9 hours ago, IXTL said:

 

So it looks like Chuck's Armoured pack is color-coded to his valk.

[Convectuoso]

Should the word "Announced" be removed from this Thread title?

[Seto Kaiba]

32 minutes ago, Sandman said:

So it looks like Chuck's Armoured pack is color-coded to his valk.

Par for the course... Macross started to color-coordinate the trim on FAST Packs with the pilot color scheme of the VF way back in DYRL?, when they made the background of the SVF-1 Skulls roundel match the trim color of the character's VF.  It's certainly practical for helping tell VFs apart when so much of the airframe is covered by bolt-on hardware.  

(To their credit, the animators working on Frontier even went to the trouble of recoloring the VF-25 Super Pack trim to khaki for the few seconds it was seen on a VF-25A.)

[SMS007]

On 2/11/2018 at 3:12 PM, kajnrig said:

 

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The fact that she's the best character design of the entire show certainly doesn't help, either.

 

*sigh* So true, so true.

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, SMS007 said:

*sigh* So true, so true.

Ab-so-lutely... 

Managed to secure two, possibly three copies of the Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure movie pamphlet thanks to some friends... so in a week or so when international express post finally delivers 'em, we can have a good high-res look at the new designs.  Gotta love our fellow fans in Japan, so many of them are sensitive to the plight of us western fans.   

[jenius]

I have listened to 3/4 if the podcast while I edit photos for my site, it's good stuff, definitely recommended listening if you don't mind spoilers.

[nanoplasm]

Spoiler

The Armored 31 did what Armored Valks do best,

- took down capital ships single handedly

- took a blast from a main gun to shield the walkure and survive

- then proceed to eject the ruined armor like a bad ass to fight another day

Regarding what the Armored Valks did in the movie.

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, nanoplasm said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The Armored 31 did what Armored Valks do best,

- took down capital ships single handedly

- took a blast from a main gun to shield the walkure and survive

- then proceed to eject the ruined armor like a bad ass to fight another day

Regarding what the Armored Valks did in the movie.

So they...

Spoiler

... just ripped off one of Ozma and the Armored VF-25's Crowning Moments of Awesome from the Macross Frontier TV series?

That was back in ep17 of Macross Frontier, when the Vajra open fire on the Macross Quarter after no-selling a huge salvo of thermonuclear reaction warheads.  Ozma tanks a shot from a Vajra anti-warship heavy quantum beam cannon to protect Cathy, then flies off armed with a knife (and later, a severed Vajra limb) to exact bloody retribution.

 

[nanoplasm]

8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

So they...

  Hide contents

... just ripped off one of Ozma and the Armored VF-25's Crowning Moments of Awesome from the Macross Frontier TV series?

That was back in ep17 of Macross Frontier, when the Vajra open fire on the Macross Quarter after no-selling a huge salvo of thermonuclear reaction warheads.  Ozma tanks a shot from a Vajra anti-warship heavy quantum beam cannon to protect Cathy, then flies off armed with a knife (and later, a severed Vajra limb) to exact bloody retribution.

 

They can recycle the material once every generation.  And there is only so much original ideas out there, eventually you have to revisit old concept.

[Graham]

OK, now we've seen some clearer pics, the look of the VF-32 Armoured Pack is growing on me.

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, nanoplasm said:

They can recycle the material once every generation.  And there is only so much original ideas out there, eventually you have to revisit old concept.

If it were one or two things, eh... but Delta did an indecent, almost UC Gundam-esque amount of borrowing from its predecessor.

(Perhaps the most blatant instance being that Delta straight up copied the entire ending of Frontier, Grace and Roid literally have the exact same endgame accomplished AND foiled the same way.  Honorable mention to the VF-31's tech specs, which showed the VF-31 to be made mostly of off-the-shelf VF-25 parts.)

I'd have liked to see Delta come up with its own highly memorable moments of awesome.  With aces practically coming out of the woodwork, it's not like they didn't have incentive.    (I mean, hey... Keith managed one.)

Edited February 20, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[no3Ljm]

Not to mention Delta also borrowed the 'psycommu' communication link between characters ala-Gundam with Hayate and Freyja.

 

[Master Dex]

25 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If it were one or two things, eh... but Delta did an indecent, almost UC Gundam-esque amount of borrowing from its predecessor.

(Perhaps the most blatant instance being that Delta straight up copied the entire ending of Frontier, Grace and Roid literally have the exact same endgame accomplished AND foiled the same way.  Honorable mention to the VF-31's tech specs, which showed the VF-31 to be made mostly of off-the-shelf VF-25 parts.)

I'd have liked to see Delta come up with its own highly memorable moments of awesome.  With aces practically coming out of the woodwork, it's not like they didn't have incentive.    (I mean, hey... Keith managed one.)

And there was a great "Wasted a perfectly good plot" trope hidden inside of the obvious "Wasted a perfectly good character" trope with Mirage. I'm beating a dead horse now about it but I'm really upset! lol. Just a story watching her come to terms with not being an automatic ace despite her name and then working her way up to competency despite that and earning the title by her own merit instead of by genetics would have been so amazing and fresh for this show that is largely built around natural pilots.

[Seto Kaiba]

22 minutes ago, Master Dex said:

And there was a great "Wasted a perfectly good plot" trope hidden inside of the obvious "Wasted a perfectly good character" trope with Mirage. I'm beating a dead horse now about it but I'm really upset! lol. 

That dead horse has a beating coming, never apologize for wanting the best girl to get her due!

(Yes, I'm am unapologetic Mirage fanboy.)

[kajnrig]

Ugh, you want to talk about wasting perfectly good plots, the whole Kaname/Arad angle was dropped even more quickly than the love triangle was, and to throw salt on the wound, they opted to put in its place the worst "tragic romance" ever.

I will never not be super salty.

[Chronocidal]

On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:11 PM, kajnrig said:

Ugh, you want to talk about wasting perfectly good plots, the whole Kaname/Arad angle was dropped even more quickly than the love triangle was, and to throw salt on the wound, they opted to put in its place the worst "tragic romance" ever.

I will never not be super salty.

There's even a meta example in that they completely wasted the voice talents of Mirage's VA, who's a singer, if I recall (and then they upped the insult to 11 in the movie, judging by the amount of dialogue she's reported to have).  For all the insanity surrounding Basara, we've yet to see a pilot get better because of their own singing/performing/whatever, and for a while it looked like Hayate's dancing was going to lead into that.  All the art of Mirage in a Walkure outfit just added more fuel to the trashfire.  

[Sandman]

That actually would've been an interesting arc to take for Mirage. We find out she use to sing growing up but tabled it to follow in the footsteps of her grandparents to be a pilot. Throughout the episodes she realizes she. An use her singing to power up her flying and eventually becomes a hybrid pilot/walkure singer. That would've been an awesome arc for her.

[Seto Kaiba]

4 minutes ago, Sandman said:

That actually would've been an interesting arc to take for Mirage. We find out she use to sing growing up but tabled it to follow in the footsteps of her grandparents to be a pilot. Throughout the episodes she realizes she. An use her singing to power up her flying and eventually becomes a hybrid pilot/walkure singer. That would've been an awesome arc for her.

Really, any story arc in which Mirage is actually allowed to grow and develop as a character would be an improvement on what the Macross Delta series did with her... she's Hayate's instructor for a while and then she's just sort of hanging around out of focus.

I'd have liked to see her come into her own as a pilot and become a worthy successor to the Jenius family tradition and the franchise's latest lady ace... a criminally underappreciated segment of the franchise's casting.  The series kind of built it up like the Immelmann Dance was going to be how Mirage finally broke through into greatness, but it never paid off.  I could kind of see singing as a alternate route for that tho...

[Chronocidal]

I think either could have worked equally well, since the whole fold wave ability seems to have grown out of the concept of spiritia in Mac7, and Veffidas clearly was contributing by her drumming.  It looks like any significantly enthusiastic outpouring of personal effort/emotion is a viable source.  Music just seems to be a convenient way to address it.  I'd have to watch again to confirm, but it looked like Keith and Messer were getting into that sort of state just from their dueling.

[nanoplasm]

Macross Delta was planned to focus on the Walkure idol group, and everything else is tacked on to support Walkure and not to take over the limelight.  Mirage in Walkure outfit is a cute crossover/spoof and nothing more.  Just like if Minmay is seen dressed up in a flight suit, no one should be expecting the story to take a detour arc with a Minmay as a pilot.

Delta also has too many "important" character.  There are 5 singers, 5 pilots on the "good side" and even more pilots on the "bad side".  And you have the commander and politicians.  You can't expect each character get their own arc of character development.  Mirage will never become a primary asset for Delta, she is just a supporting character.

Again, the intend of the Delta is that they want the viewers to like the Walkure, for their songs, for their character.  Everything else that's in the series are just support for a flimsy backstory.

BTW, I felt Mirage got a lot of screen time in the movie, maybe not spoken lines.  But she was presented as the "other" ace pilot of the final battle.  At the risk of claiming it's ripping off Frontier, Mirage reminds me of a lot of Brera Sterne (maybe her ride is purple and all).

[Zinjo]

i'll be interested IF they tell the original story BETTER this time...

[Zinjo]

On 2/16/2018 at 11:08 AM, Sandman said:

So it looks like Chuck's Armoured pack is color-coded to his valk.

Macross has never disappointed in mecha design, story telling, however has had some issues lately...

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Zinjo said:

i'll be interested IF they tell the original story BETTER this time...

What I've heard from friends who've had the chance to see it already is that it flows better than the TV series.  It's still a compilation movie, with all that entails, so whether it's told "better" would be a subject contingent on whether you feel fewer digressions from the main story is a good thing.

(IMO, it is...)

 

8 hours ago, Zinjo said:

Macross has never disappointed in mecha design, story telling, however has had some issues lately...

... protagonist focus is a bit off lately too.  Some friends of mine who were in Japan on business over the last few weeks were kind enough to bring me back some souvenirs, including three copies of the movie's booklet/brochure.  The interviews with voice actors were no surprise... but the fact that they didn't bother to interview the main frigging character's voice actor was.  They just did the members of Walkure and Chisato Mita, the character designer.

[no3Ljm]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... protagonist focus is a bit off lately too.  Some friends of mine who were in Japan on business over the last few weeks were kind enough to bring me back some souvenirs, including three copies of the movie's booklet/brochure.  The interviews with voice actors were no surprise... but the fact that they didn't bother to interview the main frigging character's voice actor was.  They just did the members of Walkure and Chisato Mita, the character designer.

They're the main star of the movie, right?

 

[Seto Kaiba]

16 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

They're the main star of the movie, right?

Pretty sure Hayate's still the main character in the story.  This ain't just a music video, y'know?  A big part of the story is his romance plot with Freyja and him fighting in the war with Windermere.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[no3Ljm]

9 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Pretty sure Hayate's still the main character in the story.  This ain't just a music video, y'know?  A big part of the story is his romance plot with Freyja and him fighting in the war with Windermere.

I'm pretty sure it is. I'm just being sarcastic earlier in this whole Walkure thing being the lead and the special attention they gave to such as interviewing the whole group and ignoring the rest is all.

[brouken]

So, any news as to a blu-ray release of the Delta Movie? I'm skipping the TV series and going straight for the movie version. Don't really care if its only marginally better than the series. Anything with an armored valk in it is worth watching in my book. 

[no3Ljm]

7 hours ago, brouken said:

So, any news as to a blu-ray release of the Delta Movie? I'm skipping the TV series and going straight for the movie version. Don't really care if its only marginally better than the series. Anything with an armored valk in it is worth watching in my book. 

Probably in 4-6 months(?).

 

[Marzan]

This is complete and total speculation with any kind of documentation to back it up so bear with me. Any chance that the entire focus on Walkure is part of a greater plan to 'move on' from the Macross name and related nomenclature in order to be able to finally being released internationally. I mean if you called the thing Walkure Delta and didn't say the word "Macross" during the show, HG wouldn't be able to a damn thing about it, right?

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Marzan said:

Any chance that the entire focus on Walkure is part of a greater plan to 'move on' from the Macross name and related nomenclature in order to be able to finally being released internationally.

No, that's just them trying to get their money's worth out of the idol group they manufactured for the series.

They're makin' a mint on Macross in Japan, and tie-ins and cross-promotion of other Macross titles is everywhere.  Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure's movie booklet from the theaters devotes its very first page after the introduction to a production timeline of previous Macross features.  The last few pages are advertising a variety of goods, including from the original SDF Macross series, the DYRL? movie, Flash Back 2012, and Frontier.  The novelization of Macross Delta makes explicit references to both Macross the Ride and Macross VF-X2.  The gaiden manga Macross E has characters and mecha from Macross 7 and Dynamite 7 as well as an original generation Macross-class ship in it.

If anything, they're upping the level of interconnection between Macross titles as time goes on.

 

2 hours ago, Marzan said:

I mean if you called the thing Walkure Delta and didn't say the word "Macross" during the show, HG wouldn't be able to a damn thing about it, right?

They'd still have problems with other terms and so on that HG trademarked like "UN Spacy".

[SMS007]

My understanding of most anime franchises is that profits to be made from outside do not generally exceed those from in Japan. Why do you suppose Big West hasn’t done more against Harmony Gold over the years? Japan is the prime market, and they have that. Big West is missing out, but not by that much.

[Sir Galahad®]

2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

My understanding of most anime franchises is that profits to be made from outside do not generally exceed those from in Japan. Why do you suppose Big West hasn’t done more against Harmony Gold over the years? Japan is the prime market, and they have that. Big West is missing out, but not by that much.

Oh come on! These Robotech Socks will bring Big West to its knees! Hehehehe!

I'm not from the US, but how big is Anime to the ordinary person over there? I think until now, it is still a Niche Market. I think the only thing the general public knows is like Dragonball or Pokemon. But I'm not sure.

The Manga and Anime industry in Japan though is big and even big time singers and composers are lending their songs or are making songs for anime movie or TV series.

[Seto Kaiba]

48 minutes ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Oh come on! These Robotech Socks will bring Big West to its knees! Hehehehe!

Socks now?  Now, more than ever, I'm convinced they only discuss merchandising while drunk.

 

Quote

I'm not from the US, but how big is Anime to the ordinary person over there? I think until now, it is still a Niche Market. I think the only thing the general public knows is like Dragonball or Pokemon. But I'm not sure.

It's not nearly as obscure as it used to be, but it's still pretty niche... the general public's only really aware of the old school stuff that they only found out was anime decades after the fact¹, the stuff the 90's kids grew up watching², the kids shows with blatant merchandising tie-ins³, and the weeb stereotype fodder⁴.

The dubbing and distribution industry here still runs on pretty thin margins.

 

1. Localizations like Speed Racer, Star Blazers, Battle of the Planets, Voltron, Gigantor, etc.
2. Dragonball, Dragonball Z, Sailor Moon, Knights of the Zodiac (AKA Saint Seiya)
3. Pokemon, Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, etc.
4. Almost exclusively Naruto.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Master Dex]

48 minutes ago, Sir Galahad® said:

Oh come on! These Robotech Socks will bring Big West to its knees! Hehehehe!

I'm not from the US, but how big is Anime to the ordinary person over there? I think until now, it is still a Niche Market. I think the only thing the general public knows is like Dragonball or Pokemon. But I'm not sure.

The Manga and Anime industry in Japan though is big and even big time singers and composers are lending their songs or are making songs for anime movie or TV series.

No... it's pretty popular now... what you said was true... in the early 2000s, lol. Right now US has streaming services like Crunchyroll and Funimation have opened up America to a ton of anime, including subbed shows that never get dubbed. When I was a kid, it was pretty much like Seto described, the 90s were when it became a bigger thing in America.. but now... Anime is a well known genre here to the point some western animation has started to adopt animesque styles and storytelling tropes.

[Falcon]

3 hours ago, SMS007 said:

My understanding of most anime franchises is that profits to be made from outside do not generally exceed those from in Japan. Why do you suppose Big West hasn’t done more against Harmony Gold over the years? Japan is the prime market, and they have that. Big West is missing out, but not by that much.

Sure the Japanese market will always be the biggest but I'm quietly confident that the combined markets outside of Japan (especially South East Asia) when it comes to merchandising should be a decent chunk of change. I'd argue they're missing a lot- that's not even including potential growth due to opening up their market to others.