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New Macross TV Series in 20xx (sometime this decade)


Tochiro

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I know the general consensus is that Lady M is Minmay due to the photo of her in Frontier and the little tidbit in Delta about Megaroad 1; I know most here don't want a generations show, personally on the fence depending on the how its achieved.  Just got my M+ movie version, didn't realize all the little yet dramatic differences in the two, until coming here. Anyway, If Sharon can run an island wide concert, fly the ghost and a Macross class ship, hold a conversation with Myung while captive, the list goes on, all this at roughly the same time.  How is it that she couldn't figure out to upload herself elsewhere far, far off, even after the warning of how "self protective" her emotion program was?  Patiently awaiting a way to return.  Lady M(yung) was very involved in the development of Mikumo, who just happened to essentially do the exact same thing as Sharon only on a much larger scale.  

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19 minutes ago, Wolf-1 said:

Just got my M+ movie version, didn't realize all the little yet dramatic differences in the two, until coming here.
...
How is it that [Sharon] couldn't figure out to upload herself elsewhere far, far off, even after the warning of how "self protective" her emotion program was?
...
Lady M(yung) was very involved in the development of Mikumo, who just happened to essentially do the exact same thing as Sharon only on a much larger scale.

1.) Differences to what? The OVA?

2.) I always thought the case was that she was constrained to and could only maintain herself as she is inside her original black box shell because of the neurochip. Even if she were to copy herself wholesale onto a different server, she required that neurochip specifically to be able to be what she is.

3.) Does Mikumo mirror Sharon? I don't remember much of Delta, but I thought Sharon was a form of "simple" light-sound hypnotism whereas Mikumo/Basara/Ranka/etc. affected fold space or some such thing.

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6 hours ago, kajnrig said:

1.) Differences to what? The OVA?

2.) I always thought the case was that she was constrained to and could only maintain herself as she is inside her original black box shell because of the neurochip. Even if she were to copy herself wholesale onto a different server, she required that neurochip specifically to be able to be what she is.

3.) Does Mikumo mirror Sharon? I don't remember much of Delta, but I thought Sharon was a form of "simple" light-sound hypnotism whereas Mikumo/Basara/Ranka/etc. affected fold space or some such thing.

Yeah pretty much in a nutshell 

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1. Yes the OVA, is there yet another version? By dramatic, I don't mean changes the story but instead adds to it, even the M1 Garands being used in the celebration.

2. Sharon showed signs of awakening before the neurochip, the fire and phone calls in particular, she specifically had to track down Guld's car phone,not to mention Isamu,who wasn't even on base.  So even while incomplete she was becoming aware and one way to get an emotion program is to achieve a physical living form.

3.  Sorry I didn't mean to imply Sharon had planned out the Mikumo scenario; that was Roid's doing, though Lady M is quite aware of the Protoculture Ruins.  Mikumo/Sharon mirroring each other; Mikumo's hair style and facial bone structure is not much different from one of Sharon's preferred images.  Both have had the most commanding voice presences of any of the female Idols, ability to project not range.  Sharon was created with Song/Music being the basis of her existence, oddly enough in Delta Mikumo says at least twice, "Music is purpose/life".  Even if how the mind-control/hypnosis is different both are defeated essentially the same way, our hero just happens to hear "another" voice, helping them break the hold of hypnosis/control.  IF Sharon could have escaped, given Myung's last few sentences to Sharon, saying her heart was in the right  place but her actions all wrong, I instead see Sharon trying to make amends not repeat history.  

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15 minutes ago, Wolf-1 said:

1. Yes the OVA, is there yet another version? By dramatic, I don't mean changes the story but instead adds to it, even the M1 Garands being used in the celebration.

2. Sharon showed signs of awakening before the neurochip, the fire and phone calls in particular, she specifically had to track down Guld's car phone,not to mention Isamu,who wasn't even on base.  So even while incomplete she was becoming aware and one way to get an emotion program is to achieve a physical living form.

3.  Sorry I didn't mean to imply Sharon had planned out the Mikumo scenario; that was Roid's doing, though Lady M is quite aware of the Protoculture Ruins.  Mikumo/Sharon mirroring each other; Mikumo's hair style and facial bone structure is not much different from one of Sharon's preferred images.  Both have had the most commanding voice presences of any of the female Idols, ability to project not range.  Sharon was created with Song/Music being the basis of her existence, oddly enough in Delta Mikumo says at least twice, "Music is purpose/life".  Even if how the mind-control/hypnosis is different both are defeated essentially the same way, our hero just happens to hear "another" voice, helping them break the hold of hypnosis/control.  IF Sharon could have escaped, given Myung's last few sentences to Sharon, saying her heart was in the right  place but her actions all wrong, I instead see Sharon trying to make amends not repeat history.  

1.) Oh, okay. From what was said right beforehand, I thought you might have meant that M+ treated some of the lore differently from the rest of the show, or maybe it pulled off generational storytelling differently than its predecessors/descendants, or something. I was just confused and needed clarification is all.

2.) Watching the movie version again, the scene of Marje buying the chip happens during the concert (specifically when Myung by way of Sharon kisses Isamu), and the implication I got was that this exchange happened either sometime beforehand or almost immediately after the concert. The fire breaking out happens later that night, so... if the chip was installed beforehand, then Sharon acted on the feelings she experienced in Myung during the concert. If the chip was installed afterward, then the timing gets a bit more handwavey, but in general I think Sharon does much the same thing: takes the things she learned from Myung and puts them into practice.

3.) Ah, okay, I see where you're going with this now. It's a neat theory, and it certainly can't be worse than the half-baked characterization we got (of everybody) in Delta. Personally, I wanted Mikumo to be a sort of "powerhouse" singer who knew how to belt out lyrics but couldn't project emotion into them (contrasting to, say, Kaname, who I think they were trending toward being a softer singer with wider emotional range). As for Lady M... I'm sort of meh on that whole mystery. It'd be cool if she were Minmei, or Myung, or anyone else people have posited, or even a new character altogether. /shrug

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎2017‎/‎05‎/‎19 at 5:05 AM, Graham said:

to be  honest, I have little interest in a remake of the SDFM TV series with updated animation.

The original series is still good enough, wonky animation and all.

I would however be OK with a side-story OVA set in the same period.

Anyway, we already have a reamake of SDFM with superior animation, it's called DYRL :p

While I love DYRL it doesn't count as they changed the classic Zentraedi body armour (not to mention what they did to Britai and Exsedol:wacko:). 

I definitely want to see a remake of SDFM with animation like in Macross Panchinko.

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On ‎2017‎/‎05‎/‎19 at 1:43 AM, jenius said:

What's with the Robotech talk? Unless Sony does something, Robotech is dead. 

The last thing I want to see is a live action movie. I don't' imagine they would even bother to do the Zentraedi armour justice. (Just compare Ronan's green accuser armour in the Marvel comics

 to the nonsense he was wearing in the GOTG movie.) It'll also probably be all about the actors rather than the mecha.

 

If they do anything Robotech it should be Shadow Rising, or better yet finish the Sentinels . After reading the novels I was disappointed that I didn't get to see more quality animation of the Inorganics, particularly the Cougar.

 

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On ‎2017‎/‎05‎/‎18 at 4:43 PM, Einherjar said:

Macross tries to be anti-war, Robotech is about blind patriotism and I guess misogyny based on what has come out recently.

Macross the First also has a possible candidate for who Lady M is.

I thought they were about the awesomeness of multitudinous armadas of a race of GIANT genetically engineered warriors fit for conquering the universe:lol:

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5 hours ago, Podtastic said:

I thought they were about the awesomeness of multitudinous armadas of a race of GIANT genetically engineered warriors fit for conquering the universe:lol:

That's what neckbeards and lurking trolls want Robotech to be.  Instead, they spend most of their lives making excuses for its many creative failures.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎2017‎/‎03‎/‎22 at 5:43 AM, seti88 said:

Zero likes for a zero series..LOL...i know the minute i posted it, i was thinking it could be read another way...:D

i realize macross zero may not be everyone's cup of tea, but i enjoyed it nevertheless..^_^ 

also...more valks and less walkures pls! :D

Zero was actually pretty good. Even despite the fact that it was pre-Zentraedi.

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On 6/12/2017 at 6:54 AM, seti88 said:

Succinctly summarized. :lol:

Of course unless the new show next year will have more graphic vio.....nah...lol..just sharing cos i tot it was nicely contrasted... 

lol :lol: that's hilarious and makes for quite a contrast. I'm only 4 eps into delta and it's quite silly in some ways hahaha

Would be cool if we got a series that was...mmm...better than delta

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Frontier had some of its original design focused on returning to basics such as aircraft design and war weaponry and tactics.  It was essentially a rebound from the stretches they made with the speaker attacks and guitar pilots of Macross 7.  Delta looks like it bounced back to the framework of 7 so hopefully we see another rebound and things get a little more conventional.  Music and the unconventional will always be part of every Macross story line, I just think its like seasoning.  A little goes a long way, too much.... and few can hold it down without vomiting it back out and into the toilet.

Edited by Ridden001
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23 minutes ago, Ridden001 said:

Frontier had some of its original design focused on returning to basics such as aircraft design and war weaponry and tactics.  It was essentially a rebound from the stretches they made with the speaker attacks and guitar pilots of Macross 7.  Delta looks like it bounced back to the framework of 7 so hopefully we see another rebound and things get a little more conventional.  Music and the unconventional will always be part of every Macross story line, I just think its like seasoning.  A little goes a long way, too much.... and few can hold it down without vomiting it back out and into the toilet.

Yep

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12 hours ago, Ridden001 said:

Frontier had some of its original design focused on returning to basics such as aircraft design and war weaponry and tactics.  It was essentially a rebound from the stretches they made with the speaker attacks and guitar pilots of Macross 7.  Delta looks like it bounced back to the framework of 7 so hopefully we see another rebound and things get a little more conventional.  Music and the unconventional will always be part of every Macross story line, I just think its like seasoning.  A little goes a long way, too much.... and few can hold it down without vomiting it back out and into the toilet.

Using that meal analogy I would regard the Zentraedi as the gravy. You can have your lamb without it, but its just not as nice.

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1 hour ago, Podtastic said:

The last Gundam I saw was 00 and some Unicorn. How does Thunderbolt compare in terms of animation quality etc?

Oh, it's beautifully animated... the mechanical designs would be the standard OYW fare if not for the mountains of extraneous garbage bolted to their backs like some kind of junkyard Super Pack.  The one big problem with Thunderbolt is that the story is an action-heavy but otherwise threadbare, barely-there mess that makes Delta look like Hugo Award material.  Thunderbolt's story is deeply devoted to Gundam's "War is Hell" message (hence the brutality), but that's the only trick it has in its playbook so it all comes off as rather forced and gratuitous.

 

As much as I'd like to see a Macross series that returns the protagonist focus to the actual military instead of suspiciously hypercompetent (SMS) or blitheringly incompetent1 (Xaos) PMCs, I'd find a Macross show that tried to sell itself on gratuitous violence even less watchable than Macross Delta with its apparent disinterest in the actual war being fought.  That's just not what the Macross series is about... war is hell, but Macross is all about love, peace, and communication.  Leave this guy's fantasies to The Show That Must Not Be Named.  

 

1. AKA a realistic PMC, were it not for the way Macross Delta treats Xaos as designated heroes the audience is supposed to be rooting for even though they lose or at best draw every battle they fight in, botch every infiltration operation, cause civilians to get hurt by hindering a military-led evacuation, play directly into Windermere's hands for almost the entire series and make things immeasurably worse, and achieve less in 26 episodes than the New UN Spacy resistance does in part of a single episode yet still badmouth the military.

 

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Just now, Seto Kaiba said:

As much as I'd like to see a Macross series that returns the protagonist focus to the actual military instead of suspiciously hypercompetent (SMS) or blitheringly incompetent1 (Xaos) PMCs, I'd find a Macross show that tried to sell itself on gratuitous violence even less watchable than Macross Delta with its apparent disinterest in the actual war being fought.  That's just not what the Macross series is about... war is hell, but Macross is all about love, peace, and communication.  Leave this guy's fantasies to The Show That Must Not Be Named.  

that is a big issue for me slogging through this series... 

 

as far as "war is hell" not being the message: 

you can make a series where the characters deal with an ongoing war in an adult manner [instead of ignoring it], and said war is presented as costly and destructive. thereby re-enforcing said message without becoming Gundam Thunderbolt [as entertaining as I found the series, you're 100% correct about violence > story].

 

as for the PMC vs Military:

is this a purposeful move so as not to court any controversy in Japan? how are PMC's viewed there? how's the military looked at there these days?

I haven't seen or read anything that would make me think the Military is seen as incompetent or incapable.

the other thing is that a PMC does not have to deal with Military bureaucracy in combat, or out of it, and are therefore far more flexible in their tactics, equipment, and deployment.... as regular civilians become more and more acquainted with how the military works in the modern era [see "military-industrial complex", and "ROE so asinine you might as well have stayed at home"] it seems less and less likely that we will see heroes get written as military personnel themselves.

Edited by slide
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The switch to having PMCs in Macross makes sense as the colonies are scattered far and wide. It's really hard to hold onto an area that spans the galaxy with a centralized command structure. At least in the current style we are familiar with.

Local forces would need to have some autonamy to function, this includes allocation of thier own resources as they travel farther from 'home base'. Instead of just taking that doctrine and keeping full loyality to UNSpacy it seems that the path Macross is following is just to skip the middle man and go straight to privitation.

It also allows the heroes to not look like glorified goverment workers, which I'm guessing is the primary reason.

Looking back, most of the protagonist forces are para-military, even the original series to some extent since they were cut off from Earth support, even by thier own military at one point.

Edited by Focslain
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It also gives a convenient workaround to allow teenage protagonists. 

SDFM and the original Gundam utilized the "all the experienced soldiers are dead, these rookies are all we've got." trope.

That seems a bit of a stretch in the later ears of the Macross timeline. Using PMCs leaves it up to each company's HR dept. It also allows your pilots to sport exciting, individualized color schemes without breaking regulations. 

The downside, is that the military then gets portrayed as useless cannon fodder. Except for Machida and Lazzarabal.

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3 hours ago, slide said:

is this a purposeful move so as not to court any controversy in Japan? how are PMC's viewed there? how's the military looked at there these days?

I haven't seen or read anything that would make me think the Military is seen as incompetent or incapable.

the other thing is that a PMC does not have to deal with Military bureaucracy in combat, or out of it, and are therefore far more flexible in their tactics, equipment, and deployment.... as regular civilians become more and more acquainted with how the military works in the modern era [see "military-industrial complex", and "ROE so asinine you might as well have stayed at home"] it seems less and less likely that we will see heroes get written as military personnel themselves.

I doubt it's anything to do with controversy... plenty of mecha shows, and even a fair few non-mecha shows lately, have had no qualms about depicting teenagers joining the military with all the consequences that entails.  One might suspect that, considering how brutal Shingeki no Kyojin and Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans were to their teenage soldiers, more uplifting stories would be entirely welcomed.

You'd think PMCs would actually be more taboo, since there are significant international legal issues surrounding the use of private security forces in a combat setting and at least 35 nations have banned the use of mercenaries in combat.

With respect to military bureaucracy, the opposite is true... they actually acknowledge in Frontier that SMS is answerable both to the Frontier government and its New UN Forces because their job is to supplement the local military.  That quickly gets handwaved and then ignored until late in the series when the New UN Spacy and Frontier government exercise their option to bring SMS under their direct control and essentially draft the entire SMS office into the local New UN Spacy garrison.  Almost everything SMS Frontier Branch had was on loan from the local NUNS... the Low Rate Initial Production Block VF-25s they were flying, the Macross Quarter herself.  Xaos in Delta also acknowleges on several occasions that they're subordinate to the local New UN Forces and the Brisingr Alliance government, and they have to resort to having Lady M wade in and exert her mysterious influence to get the New UN Spacy local staff office to back down (with disastrous results).

 

 

3 hours ago, Focslain said:

The switch to having PMCs in Macross makes sense as the colonies are scattered far and wide. It's really hard to hold onto an area that spans the galaxy with a centralized command structure. At least in the current style we are familiar with.

Local forces would need to have some autonamy to function, this includes allocation of thier own resources as they travel farther from 'home base'. Instead of just taking that doctrine and keeping full loyality to UNSpacy it seems that the path Macross is following is just to skip the middle man and go straight to privitation.

It also allows the heroes to not look like glorified goverment workers, which I'm guessing is the primary reason.

Looking back, most of the protagonist forces are para-military, even the original series to some extent since they were cut off from Earth support, even by thier own military at one point.

Because the New UN Forces are out of focus in the shows themselves their organization isn't talked about much unless you go to the print sources, but they actually have a decentralized command structure.  Each planet or fleet is effectively an autonomous state and responsible for raising, maintaining, and equipping its own local defense forces which operate under the auspices of the New UN Forces.  The New UN Government maintains a standing military not tied to any one planet or fleet, which is the core/federal New UN Forces.  The fleets/planets have treaty obligations as New UN Government members to honor requests for reinforcement or cooperation from each other and from the federal forces.

Essentially, though it's not an exact comparison, the local mooks we've seen representing the New UN Forces in Frontier and Delta are the equivalent of National Guard reservists.  Their organization is subordinate to the federal military, but able to operate as a stand-alone force.  (One of the issues that pushed Windermere towards their 2060 war of secession was their reluctance to send the Aerial Knights to support the New UN Spacy in repelling a rogue Zentradi fleet.)

As Ozma put it, the PMCs seem to be valuable mainly because their troops are technically expendable soldiers.  If they snuff it, they're legally considered to have died in an accident and not combat, so it's less paperwork for the military under certain circumstances.

(Considering the acknowledged Aesop of Frontier was one about corporations getting too powerful for their own good, it's an odd choice to make the protagonists corporate soldiers.)

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, Kelsain said:

It also gives a convenient workaround to allow teenage protagonists. 

SDFM and the original Gundam utilized the "all the experienced soldiers are dead, these rookies are all we've got." trope.

That seems a bit of a stretch in the later ears of the Macross timeline. Using PMCs leaves it up to each company's HR dept. It also allows your pilots to sport exciting, individualized color schemes without breaking regulations. 

The downside, is that the military then gets portrayed as useless cannon fodder. Except for Machida and Lazzarabal.

Dunno if that's necessarily true, given that the age of legal adulthood in Macross is established to be 17 and you can legally join the military as young as 15 (as Gamlin did).

It's lazy writing, using the military's latest equipment not being quite ready yet to justify both using them as victims for the Worf Effect and justify having a PMC that was conveniently testing those same weapons for them do all the actual fighting.  (You'd think the military would just repo the bloody things and get on with their jobs.)  In Frontier, the only thing that kept the New UN Spacy out of the fight was that the VF-25 was like six months from mass production and they'd given SMS the Block 1 trial production units for testing.  Same as in Delta, where the VF-31's slated to go into service in two years time and Xaos is testing it for them.

With all the hoops they have to jump through to justify PMC protagonists, you'd think it'd be easier to just say "Ooo! Look! A NUNS Special Forces team!"

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Oh, it's beautifully animated... the mechanical designs would be the standard OYW fare if not for the mountains of extraneous garbage bolted to their backs like some kind of junkyard Super Pack.  The one big problem with Thunderbolt is that the story is an action-heavy but otherwise threadbare, barely-there mess that makes Delta look like Hugo Award material.  Thunderbolt's story is deeply devoted to Gundam's "War is Hell" message (hence the brutality), but that's the only trick it has in its playbook so it all comes off as rather forced and gratuitous.

 

As much as I'd like to see a Macross series that returns the protagonist focus to the actual military instead of suspiciously hypercompetent (SMS) or blitheringly incompetent1 (Xaos) PMCs, I'd find a Macross show that tried to sell itself on gratuitous violence even less watchable than Macross Delta with its apparent disinterest in the actual war being fought.  That's just not what the Macross series is about... war is hell, but Macross is all about love, peace, and communication.  Leave this guy's fantasies to The Show That Must Not Be Named.  

 

1. AKA a realistic PMC, were it not for the way Macross Delta treats Xaos as designated heroes the audience is supposed to be rooting for even though they lose or at best draw every battle they fight in, botch every infiltration operation, cause civilians to get hurt by hindering a military-led evacuation, play directly into Windermere's hands for almost the entire series and make things immeasurably worse, and achieve less in 26 episodes than the New UN Spacy resistance does in part of a single episode yet still badmouth the military.

 

O.o  Okay, after seeing "THIS GUY'S" version of "brutal war", I decided to just remove what I said previously. Let's just go with "War is Serious" and I think that would be good.

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