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Mission 18: Sense Emergence  

97 members have voted

  1. 1. Rating

    • Positive (Cat jokes and Protoculture ruins. Great combo!)
      70
    • Neutral
      14
    • Negative (My sense is telling me this is another boring episode)
      13


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Its not that most of us just came to the conclusion about Bogue Azrael. I think it just finally hit that last nerve with us. They need to do something with him more constructive; ie have him begin to sway to the Chaos side, injure him or just put him in as corner with a coloring book and crayons. I don't know anything besides nash his teeth and yell "Die Walkure!" and end up getting shot up or thwarted at the last minute. I mean even the chimpanzee learns after a couple of electrical shocks not to touch the red square. You would think he would try a new tactic by now.

Mikumo did definitely have an affect on Ketchup Boy. Hell she blew his royal robes, crown and damn near his clothes off of him. She essential let him know who the true singer and master of the ruins are. I wondered the same thing though about the end of the Ep. They did focus the whole end credits on her. It doesn't bode well like Ragashingo pointed out.

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Oh Mirage, you're just not destined to have any character development are you? Now even Cassim is getting more focus.

Like the development that the piloting boost from singing is now a double edge sword, that's even starting to negatively affect the Windermereans.

Mikumo is either protoculture, or an artificial one? Interesting.

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All in all I liked the ep. Seems like we took a big step towards the end game.

I agree with some of the other views that the 1st half was slow but man that second half was bonkers.

Cassim getting more backstory and a sympathetic view towards the enemy were all red flags. My guess next ep he'll be killed by a VARS'd out Hayate.

On that note it looks like VARS is activated by intense fold wave bombardment. Having a fold receptor probably makes the VARS activation threshold higher but there is a limit.

What's more interesting is when Freya went glassy eyed almost on auto pilot. Was she controlled by the ruins? Maybe some deeply embedded genetic programming? It's an interesting note that we only saw Hayate go VARS. Make me wonder how their sync was established, ie does it take two to tango? Maybe, it started only when Hayate started showing protection instinct with love/admiration towards Freya on the first run on the planet of the cats.

Seems like the Windemere's get don't get VARS but the high fold waves do shorten their lives. That being said, it would have fully expected this wave blast to kill Herman outright... Could it be that only Cassim and Hayate were affected because they were on Freya's mind? If this was the MF writing team I'd say yes, however MD's writing team tends to not write as deep.

All the other Delta pilots just got blown away with "headaches". Pretty odd.

But not as odd as Mikumo's reactions. She's experiencing fear then starts singing. There's more memories resurfacing and she remembers the Mayan thing. Could she be going for a "reset"?

Back in M0 Sara also had a glassy eye'd look while in the birdman, wonder if that's related.

On Bogue, meh he's villainous comic relief. I didn't expect any growth from him to begin with.

Roid and Berger seem to researching something. It would be VERY dangerous if they're trying to figure out the "birdman" protocol without knowing about what happened on Earth.

Edited by squaresphere
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We finally got a name for those portals Mega Fold Gates. Which suspiciously sounds like Super Dimensional Energy Gates technology that led to the Protodevlin entering the universe.

From what I understand from Macross Chronicle Technology sheet on Space Fold says Fold can appear differently due to circumstances. Folds we see were it is instantaneous with a bubble effect is that ships are wrapped in a warp bubble and fold at short ranges while those which are not instantaneous or using portals are super long range folds. The third type of folding is at super-luminal speeds done by Protodevlin like Sivil and Gravil.

That said if the ruins are tapping into the Sea of Spritia through those gates no wonder it is affecting Fold Receptors and everybody else as according to Macross Chronicle the ethereal body or spirit exist in Fold Space. A Fold Amp that taps directly to Fold Space and it is activated by what looks like a Protoculture singer. On overload the system renders Freyja in a lifeless trance drains the life literally off Cassim like Protodevlin victims. Roid is really playing with dangerous stuff probably at the same level as the Protodevlin.

Edited by RedWolf
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It strikes me that all these structures and maby the Windermerians(and probably Mikumo) might be a project to rehijack or replicate the supervision army. So basicly we're dealing with the magic that the protoculture destroyed itself messing with. I'm sure nothing will go wrong.....

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I think the "real" wind singer are supposed to sing with positive emotion at the shrine of time and spreading positive fold wave on winderemere. that fold wave can prolonged their live. but seems someone know how to weaponize it for mind control + var

I think you solved the mistery...

yeah, positive singing may prolongue the lifetime of the Windermerians. Why not?

Edited by Gerli
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On Bogue, meh he's villainous comic relief. I didn't expect any growth from him to begin with.

Bogue is not a villain I tell you, when he told Cassim to not be a knight any more, that was his way of encouraging people, to bring the best out of them. The only thing he could've done more is to say: "Cassim, your flying sucks donkey balls... it's crap." But Bogue is being gentle with Cassim, telling him to get his head back in the game or be killed. He is the Messer of the Aerial Knights, not in terms of skills, but in terms of wanting to bring out the best in them, even the old farts like Herman and Cassim.

Indeed, Bogue is the leader that the AK deserves, but not the one it has. That unfortunately has become the title handed to Keith by pure nepotism, and what did Keith do this time? Honestly, not very much. His flying sucked donkey balls too, it's too bad that he is so ill-tempered that Bogue's kind words would just get him killed.

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Is it just me or do the Windmereans keep moping and crying about having short lifespans..sure mention it once or twice in passing....But I mean if thats always been the case then, that is what is NORMAL to you, you shouldnt feel like you got dealt a bad card, since thats all you've ever known. Ok lets say you know of other races that have much longer lifespans.. but I mean come on... It just feels like they are all SO OVERLY sensitive to the matter. Poor writing in my opinion.

What did I just see... I mean... Macross used to be about epic space wars fueled by songs...featuring great characters in awesome machinery. I dont know what I just saw here. I havent seen so much unexplained onscreen wtfery since End of Evangelion. Someone is really on shrooms.

The Valkyries are barely given any screen time anymore and its been that way since how many episodes ago? (And I know you need character dev episodes, cant be all fighting) And when we do see the Mechs dogfighting it out, its always rammed into the ground with these crazy over the top effects making you "visualize" the effects of the song. I get that every once in a while when you need to drive the point forward to add spice. But EVERY single time the jets in the air it has to be that way?? I know whats going on, you dont need to smother my face with it.

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Is it just me or do the Windmereans keep moping and crying about having short lifespans..sure mention it once or twice in passing....But I mean if thats always been the case then, that is what is NORMAL to you, you shouldnt feel like you got dealt a bad card, since thats all you've ever known. Ok lets say you know of other races that have much longer lifespans.. but I mean come on... It just feels like they are all SO OVERLY sensitive to the matter. Poor writing in my opinion.

Note that Windermereans keep saying if Earthers didn't they would still have peace. Actually they were still fighting each other in the air with glider suits and gliding beasts 40 years ago for mountain castles. What they really meant is that they wouldn't this existential crisis if Earthers didn't make contact with them. This whole spiel of them being the true heirs of the Protoculture is a manifestation of their inferiority complex.

What did I just see... I mean... Macross used to be about epic space wars fueled by songs...featuring great characters in awesome machinery. I dont know what I just saw here. I havent seen so much unexplained onscreen wtfery since End of Evangelion. Someone is really on shrooms.

As Reina would say "It's not Magic, it's Science.".

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRtechnology/08aOvertechnology-SpaceFold.php

Caption: In the higher dimension that's referred to as Fold Space, the ethereal body, which is considered to be the "spirit", and the flesh and blood body separate.

Extra Report: Fold Waves And Songs

Fold Waves, which are like waves generated by the higher dimensional space, are said to be deeply linked to Space Fold Navigation. It's thought that Song Energy, which was discovered in 2045, is a kind of Fold Wave, and research is being carried out on them even now.

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRtechnology/12aSongEnergy.php

Extra Report: The Protodevilun And Song Energy

Even though the Protodevilun, who treated Spiritia as "food", ought to have liked Song Energy because the origin of both Song Energy and Spiritia is the Sub-Universe, they suffered damage from the songs of Nekki Basara. This is because the Protodevilun absorbed "negative" spiritia that was amplified by fear, and couldn't receive the "positive" of Basara's songs.

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRtechnology/08aOvertechnology-SpaceFold.php

Related Matter: Anima Spiritia

The sub-universe is close to completely filled with spiritia to the degree that it can be called a "Sea Of Spiritia", and it's said that there is a part that connects the "Sea Of Spiritia" with the life that inhabits our universe. For that reason, there is a hypothesis that everyone has spiritia. Those that are referred to as Anima Spiritia seem to be able to supply vast amounts of spiritia, which has a purity higher than that of an ordinary person, because the efficiency of the avenue that connects them to the "Sea Of Spiritia" is high.

Roid is messing with stuff he shouldn't have with the appearance of those Mega Fold Gates.

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/Sourcebook/Timeline1945.php

497,132 BCE (PC 2,868)

The existence of a Sub-Universe is confirmed on that scientifically advanced planet. According to survey results, this Sub-Universe abounds with super high levels of extra-dimensional energy, and this energy is discovered to have the potential for application (in our universe). The trial production of Super Dimensional Energy Gates -which can supply energy from the Sub-Universe- begins, and genetically engineered biological Super Dimensional Organs are developed. These biological Super Dimensional Organs are extremely compact, and they are expected to supply enormous amounts of energy. The internal conflicts within the Stellar Republic revives the development of the "Ehvil Series", and their trial production begins implementing the technology from the terminated "Ehvil Series." No problems are uncovered in simulations.

Special thanks to Sketchley.

Edited by RedWolf
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Just finished watching this one after another work-related delay... and boy did this almost make up for the lackluster showing of the last few.

So we're back on the planet of the cat people... I hope everyone remembered the catnip, because these guys suck at infiltration as bad as before. I can only imagine that, after years wasted trying to make Basara behave like a sane and rational being, Gamlin and Mylene would only be able to give Xaos a look of intense pity over Walkure's apparent case of ADHD. It seems like the only one who got the memo about this being a stealth operation were Kaname and the fetish filler duo.

We're finally starting to see the cracks appear in Windermere's apparently unbeatable front. Qasim doesn't seem to trust Roid, and he's obviously not the only one... but our boy Qasim, who is now officially Team Windermere's resident Smart Guy, has claimed the coveted title of "First Macross antagonist to realize that, if the Protoculture sealed something away, you probably shouldn't go unsealing it until you know what it does." That makes him automatically smarter than the entire government and military of the Varauta system, the Macross Galaxy and Frontier fleets, Havamal, and a handful of other morons who were too damn thick to realize that Sealed Evil in a Can is sealed for a reason by somebody who knew better. Of course, his sudden bout of common sense hasn't proved contagious... nor does it extend to being aware that he sent up fairly half a dozen death flags in a five minute conversation with Freyja.

I have to say that, as much as I love Hayate and Freyja's upbeat attitude, the way they both just magically get over Hayate's dad having committed mass murder with an illegal WMD almost instantly is a little bit creepy. Not as creepy as Freyja going all "dead eyed ragdoll" and sending Hayate all Var'd, but close.

We finally get a brief bit of the multi-mode dogfighting we should've had since the goddamn beginning of the series... better late than never, Kawamori-san. Give us two whole episodes of that good stuff and I'll call it even. Mind you, can we come up with some new outcomes? Bogue seems to go through gun pods at a rate almost as alarming as Hayate's limb losses, and this has to be the third or fourth time Hayate ended up bringing home a smashed-up VF-31. That boy is elephant-making-love-to-a-cat rough on his fighters.

Of course this all played right into Roid's hands somehow, because that guy seems to be gunning for Light Yagami's title as the King of Just-as-Planned.

On balance, I'll tender a positive vote this time in the hope that we get some more good character-building for the Aerial Knights... and that we get some more good dogfights.

Mikumo did definitely have an affect on Ketchup Boy. Hell she blew his royal robes, crown and damn near his clothes off of him. She essential let him know who the true singer and master of the ruins are. I wondered the same thing though about the end of the Ep. They did focus the whole end credits on her. It doesn't bode well like Ragashingo pointed out.

That's how you know you found a good woman... you end up naked and amazed and you have no rational idea how.

I wonder how many Chiba Sound Units Mikumo put out in this episode?

Considering Basara was doing terrible things to realspace somewhere in the 500,000s range (amplified), Mikumo has to be in the seven figures or better for Protoculture tech to be exploding just from being near her.

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Oh Mirage, you're just not destined to have any character development are you? Now even Cassim is getting more focus.

I dunno, I'm liking where they've gone with her, though that's always more of me reading more into her than anything the writers are actually doing. (Because the writing is kind of terrible even by Macross standards, but it's alright I still love them for it.) The pregnant pauses involving her do as much for her as high-energy antics do for Hayate and Freyja.

I like that they're playing her social ineptitude more "realistically" than anime typically does. They're stumbling upon it and don't even see it for what it is, but all the same. She's so emotionally restrained that she doesn't recognize that 1) she's getting an itch for Hayate, and 2) she's getting super jelly. Of Freyja for winning Hayate's attention? Of Hayate for being more capable of expressing himself? Both? Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that she's slowly recognizing these emotions for what they are, and is actively fighting against them, even hostile towards them. They are taking away from her love for/dedication to her job.

It would be nice if she works through her emotional stumbling block on her own and on her own time, eventually channeling them into motivation to become better at her job. She loves Hayate, but she loves flying more (calling back to and wonderfully inverting a certain other love triangle). She'll become a better second-in-command and pilot, and she'll move past the "triangle" - such as it is - without the other two being the wiser. (Also, an aside: Those were some serious "frakk me" eyes Freyja was Hayate during her birthday. Like sheesh I thought a hentai was about to start right then and there.)

This is, of course, purely my reading what I want into her character, and the show will likely render all of that characterization moot with the next episode, but it's not like it hasn't been doing that for the past 18 episodes anyway.

I would have liked for her to have had a more... complicated relationship with Messer than what we ultimately got. I would have liked for EVERYONE to have had more complicated relationships with Messer than what we ultimately got, but it would have been especially interesting if she'd carried a torch of some kind for him. Sparks combined with their mutually restrained demeanors could have made for some great interplay, and of course you bring in Kaname and Arad and the entire thing would have been rife with exactly the type of space opera that Kawamori shoots for with this franchise.

Changing gears somewhat, is anyone else disappointed by the sheer mishandling of Reina and Makina? There's no clearer evidence that the show was created by guys for guys than this token romance. And I don't mean that as some sort of damning feminist critique of the show, but it is abundantly clear that Kawamori and co. never knew what to do with them as characters and only included them for the sake of fetish; they aren't people so much as mascots. There's a little bit of interesting stuff going on with Makina owning her sexuality and Bogue developing a fixation for Reina, but by and large their inclusion in the show is predicated upon them being nice character designs, not interesting people.

...all of this is basically to say that there's so much potential with this show that gets woefully underused. That fanfiction itch is itching really really strong...

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Changing gears somewhat, is anyone else disappointed by the sheer mishandling of Reina and Makina?

No. They're not the main characters (they're core characters, but I'm not missing anything by not focusing on them). Sure a little more couldn't hurt, but I'm not missing anything by not focusing on them.

Of course, his sudden bout of common sense hasn't proved contagious... nor does it extend to being aware that he sent up fairly half a dozen death flags in a five minute conversation with Freyja.

Said it a few episodes ago. He's gonna die. Herman is gonna die in the cockpit if he doesn't die of old-age first. The grim reaper is practically standing behind him tapping his watch. One of the twins has a fiance. That one is gonna die.

We finally get a brief bit of the multi-mode dogfighting we should've had since the goddamn beginning of the series... better late than never, Kawamori-san.

Granted some of those scenes were copy-pasted from earlier episodes.

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A negative vote. I was actually kind of liking this episode. Then they all started singing and bunch of weird stuff started going on. I watched with subtitles and I'm still scratching my head. The episode almost had me with an actual story with dialog until it was time to sing.

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Is it just me or do the Windmereans keep moping and crying about having short lifespans..sure mention it once or twice in passing....But I mean if thats always been the case then, that is what is NORMAL to you, you shouldnt feel like you got dealt a bad card, since thats all you've ever known. Ok lets say you know of other races that have much longer lifespans.. but I mean come on... It just feels like they are all SO OVERLY sensitive to the matter. Poor writing in my opinion.

What did I just see... I mean... Macross used to be about epic space wars fueled by songs...featuring great characters in awesome machinery. I dont know what I just saw here. I havent seen so much unexplained onscreen wtfery since End of Evangelion. Someone is really on shrooms.

The Valkyries are barely given any screen time anymore and its been that way since how many episodes ago? (And I know you need character dev episodes, cant be all fighting) And when we do see the Mechs dogfighting it out, its always rammed into the ground with these crazy over the top effects making you "visualize" the effects of the song. I get that every once in a while when you need to drive the point forward to add spice. But EVERY single time the jets in the air it has to be that way?? I know whats going on, you dont need to smother my face with it.

I feel for the Windermerians, I really do. A couple of years is nothing for us "Earthers" who could potentially live all the way up to 100 but for a Windermerian it's a great big chunk of their short lives. That little exchange between Hayate and Freyja last episode behind the concert hall was like a chick with cerebral palsy wondering to the guy she admires how long it'll take to get to the nearest grocery store and the guy replying "Oh, just few minutes if you jog."

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Mirage, stop being emo and start acting like a Jenius. Freyja is going to kill Hayate at this rate. Again, it's good that the main character actually has a personal stake in this conflict worth risking his life for.

Interestingly, the latest chapter of Keith's manga had Casim in a heated argument with a NUNS soldier. Wright Immelman might show up there in the near future.

Edited by Einherjar
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I know everyone is itching too see multi mode combat and we did get a little this time but after reading Sketchley's translation of Great Mechanics G sparing 2016 I don't believe we will see too much of it in an atmosphere. According to it the battroid mode can hover but not fly. That may explain why it has been limited so far to fighter vs fighter.

Edited by grigolosi
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Changing gears somewhat, is anyone else disappointed by the sheer mishandling of Reina and Makina? There's no clearer evidence that the show was created by guys for guys than this token romance. And I don't mean that as some sort of damning feminist critique of the show, but it is abundantly clear that Kawamori and co. never knew what to do with them as characters and only included them for the sake of fetish; they aren't people so much as mascots. There's a little bit of interesting stuff going on with Makina owning her sexuality and Bogue developing a fixation for Reina, but by and large their inclusion in the show is predicated upon them being nice character designs, not interesting people.

Yeah, I've always felt they're tacked on and honestly this is part of the failure of having such a large cast just to fill checklist idol archetypes.

Personally, I don't think Kawamori's heart is in this series. I heard he wanted to do a air show focused show with no triangle but the sponsors forced him.

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Said it a few episodes ago. He's gonna die. Herman is gonna die in the cockpit if he doesn't die of old-age first. The grim reaper is practically standing behind him tapping his watch. One of the twins has a fiance. That one is gonna die.

Oh, it was obvious he was going to die... he's the only Aerial Knight besides Hermann to not get a profile on the official website, and not being a part of L'oreal Platoon makes it a pretty safe bet he's a goner. This sudden bout of characterization was just pathos. Let's be honest, he's basically Henchman #1 at this point.

Granted some of those scenes were copy-pasted from earlier episodes.

Buddy, I'll take what I can get... it beats wasting screen time on Fetish Filler like Makina and Reina.

Yeah, I've always felt they're tacked on and honestly this is part of the failure of having such a large cast just to fill checklist idol archetypes.

Personally, I don't think Kawamori's heart is in this series. I heard he wanted to do a air show focused show with no triangle but the sponsors forced him.

Oh, I agree with the first sentiment wholeheartedly... it's painfully obvious that a number of the characters on Macross Delta only exist to tick off a bunch of different fanservice character tropes on some producer's checklist.

Makina is obviously Miss Fanservice, and her only characterization to date has been her girl-on-girl relationship with Reina and being the token Wrench Wench. Reina's got even less, being the Covert Pervert in the aforementioned girl-on-girl fanservice relationship and The Stoic. Kaname's sole character trait to date is being the Broken Bird. It's painfully obvious Hermann only exists so he can fall victim to the Mentor's Occupational Hazard and Bogue can totally lose his sh*t. The twins... well... let's just say Ouran High School Host Club probably predicted exactly what that's about for the fangirls. Until the last episode, Mikumo and Qasim were both Flat Characters.

It's a shame we have all this baggage hanging off of what's otherwise one of the strongest leading trios in Macross history.

Looking at how lackluster the mecha action has been so far, I have to draw the opposite conclusion you did... I think Kawamori wanted to do a love story without the mecha, and the sponsors or producers forced them to throw the mecha in because you can't have a Macross series without transforming fighters.

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I just gotta say, Qassim (T-Hawk per the SpeakerPod crew) came off very cool in this episode.

I like the whole Mohawk/warpaint in a 3-piece suit aesthetic.

Until now I had a really hard time trying to justify a Draken purchase on character grounds, but that was enough for me.

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I just gotta say, Qassim (T-Hawk per the SpeakerPod crew) came off very cool in this episode.

Qassim seems to be the only one who cares about Windermere as it is now. Hermann (Grandpa) is too old to care at this point.
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I think Hermann cares, but is too entrenched in being a Knight. Cassim is still young enough (and has enough to lose) that he's wondering if it's worth it.

Also, it looks like we might be heading toward Hayate and Freyja's connection starting to be a bad thing. The way he's been affected the past two episodes by her singing and then the craziness of this episode, I wonder if their synchronization might actually turn out to be a danger and an ultimate negative (at least until the inevitable conclusion when they learn to bulldoze through it with the power of love, etc, etc, blah, blah...). Would be an interesting angle that would give Mirage an opening.

I'm starting to think that the only part of a Draken that can be damaged is the accessories. Other than the drones and gun pods, I don't think our heroes have manage to hurt one (Drakens piloted by red shirts don't count, they're probably pre-damaged and primed to explode before take off).

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I just gotta say, Qassim (T-Hawk per the SpeakerPod crew) came off very cool in this episode.

I like the whole Mohawk/warpaint in a 3-piece suit aesthetic.

Agreed, so much. I didn't care much for him before this episode, but dude knows how to warm the cockles of my heart.

No. They're not the main characters (they're core characters, but I'm not missing anything by not focusing on them). Sure a little more couldn't hurt, but I'm not missing anything by not focusing on them.

That's kind of the point, though. They get core character billing but background character characterization. I imagine there must be a bit of that in the AKB0048 anime as well, and in Idolmaster and its ilk. I can understand their inclusion from a marketing perspective, but as far as telling a good story goes they're chaff that should have been removed ahead of time.

Yeah, I've always felt they're tacked on and honestly this is part of the failure of having such a large cast just to fill checklist idol archetypes.

Personally, I don't think Kawamori's heart is in this series. I heard he wanted to do a air show focused show with no triangle but the sponsors forced him.

It's a shame we have all this baggage hanging off of what's otherwise one of the strongest leading trios in Macross history.

Looking at how lackluster the mecha action has been so far, I have to draw the opposite conclusion you did... I think Kawamori wanted to do a love story without the mecha, and the sponsors or producers forced them to throw the mecha in because you can't have a Macross series without transforming fighters.

For my part, I see all of it as simply a whole lot of wasted potential. Everyone could have been worked on a little more; everyone starts out with an interesting premise. I would have liked to see this show in its prototype, competing air show stage. As for Kawamori, didn't he note somewhere somewhen that he wanted to avoid romance entirely?

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As for Kawamori, didn't he note somewhere somewhen that he wanted to avoid romance entirely?

His original idea was more like an air show competition. There wasn't a love triangle but as he said, the sponsors won't let him get away with it. It had to have VFs, a love triangle, and singing. I think he only wanted 2 of those items.

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