RedWolf Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The Drakkens do have fold capability right? I remember that from episode 1. Roid was giving commands there so likely they were piggy backing. VFs in the Macross setting either needs a fold booster or to piggy back from a ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The Drakkens do have fold capability right? I remember that from episode 1. I don't remember there being boosters on them, but they could've been discarded. One other thing that bugs me a little about the Drakkens, they seem to have this long ass beam cannon on their planes, except depending on the shots, you don't always see it, may be I'm just not looking carefully enough. We see all of the Drakens coming from a single fold effect... so I'd assume that there's a carrier there that we just don't see emerge. If the fighters each had their own fold booster, we should've seen six smaller fold effects instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The Drakkens do have fold capability right? I remember that from episode 1. I don't remember there being boosters on them, but they could've been discarded. One other thing that bugs me a little about the Drakkens, they seem to have this long ass beam cannon on their planes, except depending on the shots, you don't always see it, may be I'm just not looking carefully enough. I think they were traveling in a fold opened up from Windermere. Boosters we just didn't see is also likely. As for the gun, it is on the underside in fighter mode attached to a bar that moved upward with a second bar that holds the shoulder connections. The gun does a 180 on this bar for Gerwalk and detaches for Battroid (I freeze framed the transformation). In Fighter the design of the gun is such that it blends in with the fuselage really well to give the plane a smooth look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalvasflam Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ah, ok, good points. I remember the beam cannon swiveling on the bottom of the fueslage, but for some reason I think it's on top in the Gerwalk mode. Would like to see the transformation sequence on the Drakken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ah, ok, good points. I remember the beam cannon swiveling on the bottom of the fueslage, but for some reason I think it's on top in the Gerwalk mode. Would like to see the transformation sequence on the Drakken. That is what I meant by the bar that flips up (carrying a second bar with the arms) with the beam cannon which itself rotates so it is facing forward on top in Gerwalk. I am not great at description but I have a frame by frame gallery that makes it pretty clear. Also I am generally good at picking apart patterns and details due to being an engineer anyway. I am not at my home computer though to access all that stuff right now however, but somewhere in the episode 4 thread someone did post a gif of the transformation (I have one too, but again, can't get to it now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 The beam cannons sit flush on the ventral section of the hull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saruta Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) This gif is apparently made from a real life video. It has a Pugachev's cobra (I think) at the start - then a very spectacular move out of it, very looking very Delta-ish (which is why the maker embellished it a wee bit). I'd appreciate explanation what this actually is. Edited May 21, 2016 by Saruta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 This gif is apparently made from a real life video. It has a Pugachev's cobra (I think) at the start - then a very spectacular move out of it, very looking very Delta-ish (which is why the maker embellished it a wee bit). I'd appreciate explanation what this actually is. giphy_1.gif More like he started a cobra, went too far and stalled out into a flat spin and got lucky enough to level out almost immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karaoke Ninja Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Ah, ok, good points. I remember the beam cannon swiveling on the bottom of the fueslage, but for some reason I think it's on top in the Gerwalk mode. Would like to see the transformation sequence on the Drakken. https://a.pomf.cat/sixzez.webm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saruta Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 More like he started a cobra, went too far and stalled out into a flat spin and got lucky enough to level out almost immediately. So this is actually a fail? looks pretty epic for a fail, but I know nothing of aviation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Confuses Gamlin Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) More like he started a cobra, went too far and stalled out into a flat spin and got lucky enough to level out almost immediately. It looks like a Kulbit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulbit Edited May 21, 2016 by This Confuses Gamlin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Has this been brought up? It's just before the team heads down to Voldor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Confuses Gamlin Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 IIRC the camo swap was mentioned on the SpeakerPodcast. Now we've seen both the Draken and the Siegfried (and the shuttle) do it, so it's probably established tech from at least before the Windermere embargo, probably much older. But the Knights combined it with really strong jamming and perhaps some other electro-optical camo over Al-Shahal (because the defenders should have been able to take a normal photograph, but even those were fuzzed out) to effectively disguise themselves. Delta's probably just hoping to lower their visibility versus someone looking out a window, because most of the penetration is based on Reina's hacking the defense grid. More to the point, there's been little need for someone to do that in any series to date; Isamu might have appreciated it in Plus, but the Protodeviln and Vajra definitely wouldn't care about what colors were painted on their targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Dex Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 So this is actually a fail? looks pretty epic for a fail, but I know nothing of aviation... I'll be honest, I really don't know. That is just how it appeared to me. There are maneuvers that play with stalls like the kulbit as mentioned... but this is not my area of expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 We the camo tech is a less advanced version of what the VF-27 uses to be invisible. Frontier special forces have this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Has this been brought up? It's just before the team heads down to Voldor. IIRC the camo swap was mentioned on the SpeakerPodcast. Now we've seen both the Draken and the Siegfried (and the shuttle) do it, so it's probably established tech from at least before the Windermere embargo, probably much older. But the Knights combined it with really strong jamming and perhaps some other electro-optical camo over Al-Shahal (because the defenders should have been able to take a normal photograph, but even those were fuzzed out) to effectively disguise themselves. Delta's probably just hoping to lower their visibility versus someone looking out a window, because most of the penetration is based on Reina's hacking the defense grid. More to the point, there's been little need for someone to do that in any series to date; Isamu might have appreciated it in Plus, but the Protodeviln and Vajra definitely wouldn't care about what colors were painted on their targets. Yeah, this is an existing technology... it's not used very often, but the YF-27-5 Shahar Female from Macross R had this same capability. Macross Galaxy's army used it on the YF-27 for similar reasons to the Aerial Knights of Windermere: to operate clandestinely under circumstances that would be patently illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 , because most of the penetration is based on Reina's hacking the defense grid. More to the point, there's been little need for someone to do that in any series to date; Isamu might have appreciated it in Plus, but the Protodeviln and Vajra definitely wouldn't care about what colors were painted on their targets. Actually Jan Neumann hacked the Earth defense grid. This increased their odds of survival. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Absolutely not a Kulbit, and not a Herbst turn either. Kinda close to a Cobra followed by a Hook, or a Cobra-turn. But not really any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Confuses Gamlin Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 From Episode 8: Why would the Aether have a giant glass (or other similar transparent material)-enclosed viewing area? It's not the bridge, and I know that everything can be protected by a Pinpoint Barrier, but it's still a warship, not a cruise liner or a cityship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anime52k8 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 because sometimes you just wanna relax and enjoy the view during long trips through space on your fancy paramilitary warship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 It occurs to me one probable reason why we never see Roid's command ship is that it could be cloaked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 It occurs to me one probable reason why we never see Roid's command ship is that it could be cloaked. Apart from that first episode, Roid seems to be supervising from headquarters when he's not obviously somewhere else. From Episode 8: Why would the Aether have a giant glass (or other similar transparent material)-enclosed viewing area? It's not the bridge, and I know that everything can be protected by a Pinpoint Barrier, but it's still a warship, not a cruise liner or a cityship. Safe bet it's something custom-built specifically for Walkure's use in the event of a Var encounter in space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Apart from that first episode, Roid seems to be supervising from headquarters when he's not obviously somewhere else. Safe bet it's something custom-built specifically for Walkure's use in the event of a Var encounter in space. Macross Quarter in Macross 30 had something similar for Mina to sing in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d3v Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Macross Quarter in Macross 30 had something similar for Mina to sing in. I believe they also used the same for Ranka in Frontier. Edited May 23, 2016 by d3v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 From Episode 8: Why would the Aether have a giant glass (or other similar transparent material)-enclosed viewing area? It's not the bridge, and I know that everything can be protected by a Pinpoint Barrier, but it's still a warship, not a cruise liner or a cityship.A recreation area, a la the Enterprise-D's Ten-forward? Actually, the 1701-D has a LOT of "transparent aluminum" windows. (granted, ten-forward wasn't a glass dome, which would've simultaneously been gorgeous and destroyed the show budget) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajnrig Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 One minor thing that I enjoyed: The guns fire in extremely short bursts. The 31s' arm cannons especially are always animated smartly, with good trigger discipline(?) being enforced, which lends some small measure of realism to this show. I've heard that modern fighters that have any sort of gun at all (be it internal or external) can plow through their ammo reserves within a mere 20 seconds of sustained fire. Imagine how much more limited the arm cannons must be, and... well anyway, it's just nice to see that small detail is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Will ya look at that...the beam gunpod can fire while stored. I don't think that's been shown before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Will ya look at that...the beam gunpod can fire while stored. I don't think that's been shown before. Now that is interesting, because according to my understanding based on screenshots from multiple episodes and photos of the toys and model kits, the muzzle of the beam gunpod should be blocked by the groin-piece in Fighter mode. Very interesting, but great to know it can fire in fighter mode, without having to unstow the whole charger pod. Ah.........on closer examination of that pic, can see the beam gunpod is in the opened (extended position), which it normally isn't in fighter mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 One minor thing that I enjoyed: The guns fire in extremely short bursts. The 31s' arm cannons especially are always animated smartly, with good trigger discipline(?) being enforced, which lends some small measure of realism to this show. I've heard that modern fighters that have any sort of gun at all (be it internal or external) can plow through their ammo reserves within a mere 20 seconds of sustained fire. Imagine how much more limited the arm cannons must be, and... well anyway, it's just nice to see that small detail is all. Yeah, I also think it's good that they are sticking to mostly short bursts. I posted about quite a few posts about the arm cannons earlier in this thread theorizing about the ammunition capacity and storage. I still think that as the VF-31's hands are not stowed inside the forearms in fighter mode (they are located on the underside of the wings), that at least some of the internal space inside the forearms is actually the ammunition magazine for the arm cannons. I wish Kawamori would get round to releasing some hard tech date on the VF31s, including calibre of the arm cannons and ammo capacity, number of micro missiles carried in the 6 internal launchers, engine thrust and weight of the fully loaded and empty VF-31. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 I posted about quite a few posts about the arm cannons earlier in this thread theorizing about the ammunition capacity and storage. I still think that as the VF-31's hands are not stowed inside the forearms in fighter mode (they are located on the underside of the wings), that at least some of the internal space inside the forearms is actually the ammunition magazine for the arm cannons.If the VF-31 transforms the same way as the YF-30 (which it likely does), then the hands get tucked into pocket in the lower part of the legs so there would be storage space for ammo. What I'm wondering about is the guns rotating. The ammo feeder has to rotate with it (not the storage, the feeding mechanism). I wish Kawamori would get round to releasing some hard tech date on the VF31s, including calibre of the arm cannons and ammo capacity, number of micro missiles carried in the 6 internal launchers, engine thrust and weight of the fully loaded and empty VF-31. Patience. IIRC, we never got any real specs for the VF-25 until a few months into Frontier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frothymug Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Has this been brought up? It's just before the team heads down to Voldor. I actually thought this was just some sort of analogy for the viewers to see that the Valks were becoming stealthed to the Voldor detection network, not physically changing the color of their fuselages. Do they really have the capability to change like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azrael Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 I actually thought this was just some sort of analogy for the viewers to see that the Valks were becoming stealthed to the Voldor detection network, not physically changing the color of their fuselages. Do they really have the capability to change like that? The VF-31s should have active stealth. I saw it as optical camo like the Drakens to hide any markings if someone caught a visual on their approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I wish Kawamori would get round to releasing some hard tech date on the VF31s, including calibre of the arm cannons and ammo capacity, number of micro missiles carried in the 6 internal launchers, engine thrust and weight of the fully loaded and empty VF-31. Thus far, we've got enough data to make some reasonably sound educated guesses about the VF-31's specs. They're almost certainly a Shinsei Industry product, given that they were developed from the YF-30 Chronos prototype that was a joint venture between Shinsei Industry, L.A.I., SMS Uroboros, and the Uroboros A.W.D.A.P. station. For physical proportions, I'd say we're looking at ~19m in length and a ~15.5m wingspan... possibly closer to 16m wingspan on the conventional delta-wing type. Empty mass is probably somewhere in the vicinity of 8,200kg. Seems a safe bet the engine's either the FF-3001/FC2 or some variant thereof, which would give it over 2,100kN of maximum instantaneous thrust per engine. There's also an excellent argument, based on last episode, that the VF-31 units employed by Delta Platoon are equipped with either a fold wave system (off the YF-29) or the YF-30's more refined version (fold dimension resonance system) given the way it reacts to the fold quartz pendant Hayate's wearing and Freyja's song. Maybe it's just this recent episode practically shoving the gun barrel into the camera, but the VF-31's forearm guns seem to be a VERY high caliber. It looks almost like Freyja could fit her entire fist down the barrel. Probably somewhere in the 50-60mm class. Since it forfeited the missile container off the YF-30, I'd guess the leg launchers probably hold around 6-8 missiles apiece (that's approximately how many the YF-29's held, averaged per port, depending on whether the shoulder bays factor into this). I actually thought this was just some sort of analogy for the viewers to see that the Valks were becoming stealthed to the Voldor detection network, not physically changing the color of their fuselages. Do they really have the capability to change like that? Yep... active optical camouflage for Valkyries first appeared (chronologically) on the YF-27-5 Shahar-F in 2058. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedWolf Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 There's also an excellent argument, based on last episode, that the VF-31 units employed by Delta Platoon are equipped with either a fold wave system (off the YF-29) or the YF-30's more refined version (fold dimension resonance system) given the way it reacts to the fold quartz pendant Hayate's wearing and Freyja's song. That means they filled with expensive Fold Quartz and Hayate damages his at every battle. Ouch if it comes out of his pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seto Kaiba Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) That means they filled with expensive Fold Quartz and Hayate damages his at every battle. Ouch if it comes out of his pay. As long as he brings the nosecone and that bit that becomes the front of the upper chest back, I think he's probably OK... that ought to be where most of the fold quartz is, if it's built anything like the YF-30 or YF-29. Whoever's in charge of ordering spares for the manipulators probably hates his guts though... he's lost how many arms now? 2? 3? Sitting perfectly still and trusting the pin-point barrier to take all of the beating is not paying huge dividends. (In musing on that, my brain is flashing back to DBZ Abridged with Piccolo bellowing "DODGE!") EDIT: Spelling... Edited May 23, 2016 by Seto Kaiba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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