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Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST


azrael
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I'll call it right now, Delta will be the first series to have its main Macross class sink.

Um... the first one was 24 years ago, mate.

Delta would be the third, if it happens.

The first time it happened was in Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers Again when Ingues sank the post-retrofit SDF-1 Macross in the final episode.

The second time it happened was in Macross 7, when the Battle-7 was destroyed fighting Gepernich and a replacement was being built during the events of Macross Dynamite 7.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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...

The first time it happened was in Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers Again when Ingues sank the post-retrofit SDF-1 Macross in the final episode.

The second time it happened was in Macross 7, when the Battle-7 was destroyed fighting Gepernich and a replacement was being built during the events of Macross Dynamite 7.

How technical do we want to be?

Cuz then we need to add Battle Galaxy to that number. So Delta would contain #4.

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"It's always been a funny little in-joke that the -9 VFs have sword names and forward-swept wings... the sole exception being Rod's YF-29B Percival."

SIR Percival was one of King Arthurs Knights of the Round Table and swung a sword...

Edited by NZEOD
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Doesn't make up for the size discrepancy. Based on observations from the episode 2 thread, it's somewhat larger than the Quarter class.

To quote from that thread (including my own observations).

I'd be skeptical it is a Quarter Class cap ship. The colony is certainly older than 8 years when the Quarter first made it's combat debut.

I am inclined to believe it is a class between the SDF / NMCV and the Quarter Class. Perhaps one of the earlier attempts to shrink transformable capital ships before the Quarter was finished its development. It is clearly modular like the NMCV and Quarter series', but larger in scale with what appears to be fold capable Arm Carriers (both of which appear to be nearly 200m long, which is nearly the same length as a whole Quarter Class ship.).

It may well have been designed by the same group who designed the quarter as many features found on the Quarter class appear in this ship.

What this class is called is something that will be revealed sooner or later.

Edited by Zinjo
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Um... the first one was 24 years ago, mate.

Delta would be the third, if it happens.

The first time it happened was in Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers Again when Ingues sank the post-retrofit SDF-1 Macross in the final episode.

The second time it happened was in Macross 7, when the Battle-7 was destroyed fighting Gepernich and a replacement was being built during the events of Macross Dynamite 7.

Whoops Im actually in the middle of rewatching 7 and didn't get up to that part yet I completely forgot

they had everyone evacuate the Battle 7 and escaped in those APC's its all coming back to me.

And the last time I watched MacII was when I was 9 on Starz so there is a lot I dont remember there. Thanks for reminding me.

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Aircraft guns are bore-sighted to converge(if multi-gunned) and hit at a certain point. I think I heard 1500ft for an F-4.

Not that it's relevant to valks, but in WW2-era aircraft with more than 2 guns, there were a variety of standards for convergence that might be applied on a unit-level or even specified by the individual pilot. For example, I have read that some P-47 and P-51 units liked to have each pair of wing guns converge at a different range to give the best spread, while others favored concentrating all 6 or 8 guns at a single range. I also think I recall that certain pilots like Marseille, who favored shooting at very close range, would have their convergence set differently than the norm for their unit.

Having said that, I think it's totally plausible that in Macross technology the guns could be linked to the targeting system and dynamically adjust their convergence.

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I'd be skeptical it is a Quarter Class cap ship. The colony is certainly older than 8 years when the Quarter first made it's combat debut.

I am inclined to believe it is a class between the SDF / NMCV and the Quarter Class. Perhaps one of the earlier attempts to shrink transformable capital ships before the Quarter was finished its development. It is clearly modular like the NMCV and Quarter series', but larger in scale with what appears to be fold capable Arm Carriers (both of which appear to be nearly 200m long, which is nearly the same length as a whole Quarter Class ship.).

It may well have been designed by the same group who designed the quarter as many features found on the Quarter class appear in this ship.

What this class is called is something that will be revealed sooner or later.

As I pointed out earlier, the Japanese wiki entry seems to hint that it's closer to the size of the original SDF and the New Macross class.
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Having said that, I think it's totally plausible that in Macross technology the guns could be linked to the targeting system and dynamically adjust their convergence.

Minor adjustments to gun angle vs turning into a giant robot, I think we all know which is easier.

...

But I'm sure they can overcome the engineering challenges needed to make a gun change angle anyways.

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I'd be skeptical it is a Quarter Class cap ship. The colony is certainly older than 8 years when the Quarter first made it's combat debut.

I am inclined to believe it is a class between the SDF / NMCV and the Quarter Class. Perhaps one of the earlier attempts to shrink transformable capital ships before the Quarter was finished its development. It is clearly modular like the NMCV and Quarter series', but larger in scale with what appears to be fold capable Arm Carriers (both of which appear to be nearly 200m long, which is nearly the same length as a whole Quarter Class ship.).

It may well have been designed by the same group who designed the quarter as many features found on the Quarter class appear in this ship.

What this class is called is something that will be revealed sooner or later.

where's the main cannon? cause no gunship on elysion

also the bridge seems bigger and more modern than quarter

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David that sounds about right if you consider the muzzle velocity of the M-61 is 3450 Ft/S. From what I have seen of actual M-61 bore-sites on F-4's that is what the distance from the aircraft to the burm was from my estimation. One thing to keep in mind is that once the Valkyrie goes from fighter to either Gerwalk or Battroid the whole bore-site dynamic changes to point/shoot like a rifle/pistol was in an early WWI style aircraft. The Fire control computer systems on the Valks would more than likely just switch from one parameter to another to account for this. A lot of the newer fighters now are equipped with "dogfight" switches that tell the system to switch from visual engagement to medium and long range (normal mode) also.

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How technical do we want to be?

Cuz then we need to add Battle Galaxy to that number. So Delta would contain #4.

True, though I guess that's all down to how "main" one considers it...

"It's always been a funny little in-joke that the -9 VFs have sword names and forward-swept wings... the sole exception being Rod's YF-29B Percival."

SIR Percival was one of King Arthurs Knights of the Round Table and swung a sword...

Aye... Percival was not a sword himself, he was a knight. (Whether his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries is up for debate, though.)

Kind of a "one of these things is not like the other" situation, considering the VF-9, VF-19, and YF-29 were Cutlass, Excalibur/Caliburn/Nothung, and Durandal respectively... those being a normal sword, variously the legendary magical swords of King Arthur (twice) and Sigurd (on whom King Arthur is based), and the holy/magical sword of Charlemagne's paladin Roland. (Serial escalation? What will the VF-39 be if we're already basically up to 11?)

Might be built into the carriers.

Possibly... it wouldn't be the first time.

The main gun on the retrofit Macross-class in Macross II: Lovers Again was partially built into the ARMDs that formed its arms... though was apparently so powerful that it damaged the ships considerably just by firing.

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Possibly... it wouldn't be the first time.

The main gun on the retrofit Macross-class in Macross II: Lovers Again was partially built into the ARMDs that formed its arms... though was apparently so powerful that it damaged the ships considerably just by firing.

Part of me is thinking that the folding deck somehow has something to do with it.

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As I pointed out earlier, the Japanese wiki entry seems to hint that it's closer to the size of the original SDF and the New Macross class.

Yeah I caught that after I posted...doh

Possibly... it wouldn't be the first time.

The main gun on the retrofit Macross-class in Macross II: Lovers Again was partially built into the ARMDs that formed its arms... though was apparently so powerful that it damaged the ships considerably just by firing.

When one looks at the SDF-1, the main gun was discharged between two booms unlike the gunships where this reaction seemed internalized. The same could be here and as already stated perhaps the folding flight deck has something to do with how the cannon works on this class.

I reviewed the screenshots and perhaps the Elysium is actually an SDF redesign. Maybe the NMCV class carriers have been considered too large for the purposes they serve or a 1200m warship has become necessary for fleets in the alliance? The resources to deploy a 1000m or 1200m (not yet known) warship would be less than a 1500m or 1600m carrier.

The gun ship(s) may be the booms on the back of the ship. If you look at them they seem to be very similar to the SDF-1's and they may well be hinged to tilt down like the original. Whether they would fire independently or like the Macross is not yet known, assuming they are gun ships (pods)..

Edited by Zinjo
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We've seen, what I can only assume are sensors, on gunpods from the start. Those would most likely be boresighted to the gun itself, and then feed information to the fire control computer on where the gun is shooting, since the zero would most likely change on fighter mode as the craft transformed to and from. I mean, whenever they removed the SUU-16 gunpod on the F-4C/D they needed to boresight it again after reinstalling it. The pod needed to be sighted before every mission, if I remember correctly, as pulling g's with it would knock it out of boresight. The whole arrangement was wildly inaccurate according to my dad, who flew with that set up.

We can assume that the gun pods on valks are better, more like the pod on the F-106 or the new one from the F-35B/C.

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That concept is possible with today's technology, even. You just need good position and ballistic data, accurate actuation of the gun mount and a simple computer.

The VF-1Ex dogfight seems to show a HUD view where it looks like that kind of thing is happening.

For gerwalk and battroid you clearly need the computer to figure out exactly how to point the gun to hit a certain target anyway. Or to show, based on current orientation, where it's going to hit. Guess it depends on how the pilot actually controls the thing.

Edited by Rbstr
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Yeah the big issue with the old SUU-16 and 23's was that the vibrations from the gun would loosen the sway braces. Once they did the gun pods would move slightly during firing sending rounds off target in sometimes erratic patterns. The pods in Macross are held in place from internal locks around the pistol grip while it is mounted in the frame alleviating this issue since there are no sway braces.

Edited by grigolosi
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how elysion can stand on the land like that & hold the carrier arm on that position? are they turned on the gravity control system?

I never saw it before. I only remember macross class on that position "landed" on water not stand still like elysion

cmiiw

Most likely the ship is made out of high tensile strength material (hypercarbon probably). Battle 7 did it too in Episode 48 of M7.

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how elysion can stand on the land like that & hold the carrier arm on that position? are they turned on the gravity control system?

I never saw it before. I only remember macross class on that position "landed" on water not stand still like elysion

cmiiw

Active gravity control does seem the most plausible solution.

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I really liked the use of the VF-1 in this episode, but was it me or the was no sound cue for transformation and in second though transformation was way to fast, it did not felt natural for a Vf-1

All three modes.

Oh, be still my beating heart...

I love it. I admit, the move to CG does make the look of the VF-1 Valkyrie feel a little weird. This is a mechanical design we've always known as line art and all the "proportion cheats" and other magic that was used to make all three modes look so perfect when drawn by hand. We have had the plastic models and CG models in books like the Master File series, but seeing it animated is something else entirely. The physical compromises of a CG model means the VF-1 Valkyrie will look different. But I think it was incredibly well done. The design compromises feel carefully thought out, although I was hoping they would be inspired to steal some of the design sensibilities from the 1/72 scale Hasegawa kits, since I have always felt those proportions for the Battroid mode are still some of the best renditions of a real physical version of the VF-1 Valkyrie.

But overall, I'm very pleased with the look.

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I really liked the use of the VF-1 in this episode, but was it me or the was no sound cue for transformation and in second though transformation was way to fast, it did not felt natural for a Vf-1

Just puttin' this out there, but the VF-1 Valkyrie's transformation time was approximately 1 second even in the original series (per listed spec.)... and the actuators involved have probably been upgraded several times with modern technology over the fifty or so years the design's been kicking around.

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Active gravity control does seem the most plausible solution.

With the advances in gravity control it is very likely. As already pointed out the M7 had a similar situation and it was a larger ship than the Elysium.

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I really liked the use of the VF-1 in this episode, but was it me or the was no sound cue for transformation and in second though transformation was way to fast, it did not felt natural for a Vf-1

I love it. I admit, the move to CG does make the look of the VF-1 Valkyrie feel a little weird. This is a mechanical design we've always known as line art and all the "proportion cheats" and other magic that was used to make all three modes look so perfect when drawn by hand. We have had the plastic models and CG models in books like the Master File series, but seeing it animated is something else entirely. The physical compromises of a CG model means the VF-1 Valkyrie will look different. But I think it was incredibly well done. The design compromises feel carefully thought out, although I was hoping they would be inspired to steal some of the design sensibilities from the 1/72 scale Hasegawa kits, since I have always felt those proportions for the Battroid mode are still some of the best renditions of a real physical version of the VF-1 Valkyrie.

But overall, I'm very pleased with the look.

Transformation time seemed good to me. About the same time as it ever was, but perhaps a bit faster (which would make sense given that the craft they were using are VF-1EX variants with EX-Gear equipped cockpits and current computers for 2067). It certainly wasn't as fast a transformation as we've seen for the VF-25 Messiah at it's best. But I was happy with it as it appeared in Delta, nothing wrong really stood out as far as I can tell.

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We still haven't gotten a very good look at the bridge of the Elysium. Until we do, we're only given a few hints at what the interior looks like from when we see Arad, Chuck, Earnest and the bridge bunnies during the dogfight in Episode 3. From the looks of it, it's largely Quarter-esque in layout, albeit with the bunny stations being elevated on a rear deck above the level where he two classic forward stations sit (unmanned in this episode), plus Earnest in his oversized chair. I suspect they had this layout so the captain isn't always looking down on his officers.

Interestingly, the "Vanessa" bunny station off to the side (with the big dedicated holographic monitors) has a sort of warning or danger signage on the floor around it. Does it move around or something? Is that particular bunny off limits to everyone else? Hopefully we'll learn this secret. The aft stations seem nothing special, altough they are side by side a la Quarter, instead of being separated by the entry hatch as on the SDF-1. Admittedly it makes the inevitable gossip scenes easier. ;)

Mark

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So the Sv-262 uses the VF-9's arm bar-design. Interesting.

Sv-262 has an extra set of guns behind the cockpit which become (or end up on) the right arm while the tail fin unfolds to become a shield on the left which has no visible weapons.

And the VF-171's gunpod has a ejectable magazine (however, it looks ridiculously small, maybe an e-mag?).

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