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Game of Thrones Theory Discussion. Books. Show. Spoilers.


Gakken85
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Cool to have confirmation on

Benhands. I guess he may be marked as well?

My wife and I were talking about Dany....I really don't think she is that much of a "good guy" she is just as in the dark about the real threat and playing the "Game of Thrones" as most others are in Westeros who we keep saying are too busy with that crap to see the real threat. She wants power to have power....but mainly.....she wants to set the Dothraki loose on Westeros. This is the main thing I have a problem with Danaerys. She frees slaves and wants people treated well, and yet she loves the Dothraki....the people who Murder, Rape, pillage, and enslave....just because, and she wants to set them loose in Westeros. To tear down their Stone houses ect. The Dothraki are horrible people and I get wanting to USE them as an army, but they stand for everything Danaerys supposedly hates. What does she plan on doing about them....how is she going to protect her "subjects" from the horde?

Chris

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I like the Dany as antagonist theory, except for the fact that we know "the dragon must have three heads." Jon leading the fight against Dany for the Seven Kingdoms doesn't work under that condition. Unless it's an "once an ally, now the enemy" situation, and another Dance of the Dragons takes place. But that seems like a lot of story that has to be played out.

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I'm not even sure if she is an antagonist...or rather supposed to be seen like one. It's more of....I don't know....possibly a plot hole so to speak...in the writing of her character that she is becoming a hypocrite. If they didn't kill off Selmy she would have had someone she respected to give her wise council about Westeros, that her father was (not some great benevolent person), and really just call her out on her crap.

Also, one of the video reviews I watched stated that

Martin supposedly stated that cold hands is NOT Benjin Stark

It was also great seeing the quick glimpses of the past visions!

Chris

Edited by Dobber
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That's correct, Dobb,

Martin did say that to his editor, and they just combined the characters for the show.



And Dany certainly isn't being set up as some pure and noble ruler. She plays at being Aegon, but doesn't have his level-headedness or sense of mercy. Dany is rash and arrogant. And then one has to wonder if she doesn't have a touch of the Targ madness. It's going to be a messy affair, for sure.

Edited by Duke Togo
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OMG, so many characters returned in this episode. There is so much momentum in the series right now, were you can kind of see the direction the picture is gonna take, but are still unsure about it will play out in detail. Enjoying myself like a little kid in Disneyland with this story.

Cool to have confirmation on

Benhands. I guess he may be marked as well?



My wife and I were talking about Dany....I really don't think she is that much of a "good guy" she is just as in the dark about the real threat and playing the "Game of Thrones" as most others are in Westeros who we keep saying are too busy with that crap to see the real threat. She wants power to have power....but mainly.....she wants to set the Dothraki loose on Westeros. This is the main thing I have a problem with Danaerys. She frees slaves and wants people treated well, and yet she loves the Dothraki....the people who Murder, Rape, pillage, and enslave....just because, and she wants to set them loose in Westeros. To tear down their Stone houses ect. The Dothraki are horrible people and I get wanting to USE them as an army, but they stand for everything Danaerys supposedly hates. What does she plan on doing about them....how is she going to protect her "subjects" from the horde?

Chris

Very good point. I agree with you on this. But I think that maybe her "goodness" will be preserved when her combined army lands on Westeros and she has to choose whether to get revenge for her family and fight the 7 Kingdoms or the oncoming White Walkers. And she'd probably do the latter. There's a good chance many a house would bend their knee to her without putting up a fight anyway with the way things are going in Westeros.

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Benjen too I guess, but I'm getting tired of all of the last second saves.

There would have been no point to their story had they died right there. You had to expect a save. There was 0% chance they were going to die there.

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Varys too, to a lesser extent.

I thought of them too, but the problem is I don't think she completely trusts them...or at least not to the level she did with Selmy. Plus Selmy served her family as Kings Gaurd. That put him in a unique position to give, to her, an unbiased interpretation of what happened leading up to and the rebellion itself. Tyrion, disputed what he has done is still a Lannister and Vary's is too sneaky for his own good. Maybe she'll listen to them if and when the time comes, but I think they'll have a harder time of it than Selmy would've.

Chris

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On Dany:

"At the end of the scene you should be somewhat roused by her and a little horrified," said episode 6 director Jack Bender of her latest dragon-back speech.

"Shes not Hitler at Nuremberg... but shes got the power."

Edited by Duke Togo
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I thought of them too, but the problem is I don't think she completely trusts them...or at least not to the level she did with Selmy. Plus Selmy served her family as Kings Gaurd. That put him in a unique position to give, to her, an unbiased interpretation of what happened leading up to and the rebellion itself. Tyrion, disputed what he has done is still a Lannister and Vary's is too sneaky for his own good. Maybe she'll listen to them if and when the time comes, but I think they'll have a harder time of it than Selmy would've.

Chris

Good point. She's been through a couple of betrayals in the past, and it's probably hard for her to tell friend from foe. Then again, Ser Friend Zone Jorah might have opened her to the possibility that some people can be redeemed after all.

At this point, I'm curious what she'll make of Euron if and when they meet.

On Dany:

Roused, yes, and very much terrified. The moment the Dothraki reach the shores of Westeros, they'll make the Wildling raids seem like nothing. But in the long run, they won't likely be able to subvert the Westerosi indefinitely. If the Dothraki were patterned after the Mongol hordes, history has proven that it's much easier to conquer than to rule. Also, the Dothraki probably never experienced a winter in their lives (I could be wrong, though). And this winter is said to be one of the harshest and longest ones in history. They'll probably die from the cold by the thousands.

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On Dany:

It's interesting to read that the very point of the scene was what we got from it. Well done.

Wow, that is really cool that it is intentional. I was a little afraid they were missing the contradiction we've been discussing. As for Sir Jorah...I don't consider him good council as he's very biased towards the Starks as well.

So am I wrong in remembering that the books hint that Weirwood arrows can take down a dragon?

To be honest, I don't remember that.

Chris

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I can't remember much of Targaryen rule, but I wonder if the 7 Kingdoms under one Targaryen rule would have stood a better chance against the White Walker's than the post Robert's Rebellion Westeros?

Remember, Dany wants to claim what's hers by birthright, fighting the White Walkers for Westeros fulfils that as well, it's what happens after the white walkers are defeated... :ph34r:

Till now, I still can't see the point of Sam's plot line... given we are at most 2 seasons away from the end, it's highly unlikely Sam will be able to train as a Maester to make a difference... unless there are other secrets to be found in Old Town...

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Ok, I found the weirwood arrow references; they're in ADwD and AWoIaF. Minor potential spoilers for this season (based upon the books):

in ADwD, Bran has a vision of a young man carving three arrows from the weirwood tree in WInterfell. This is thought to be Brandon Snow, King Torrhen Stark's half-brother who tried to convince his brother to allow him to kill Aegon the Conqueror's three dragons by himself under the cover of night.

Weirwood may very well be to dragons what dragonglass is to Others.

Edited by Duke Togo
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There would have been no point to their story had they died right there. You had to expect a save. There was 0% chance they were going to die there.

"They"? Meera is disposable as far as I know, unless a connection to her father is needed.

I sure didn't expect Bran to die there, my gf actually said she though Benjen would be there, although I'm not quite sure how (I guess it doesn't really matter).

My point was the way they were saved. Once again a last moment save is used to get a character out of danger - Eddard, Davos, Sansa - and that's just this season.

Varys too, to a lesser extent.

Yeah, Varys does have a direct connection to Illyrio, who would be one of the few Daenerys could trust.

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Spoilers, Tober: Eddard got his head cut off, there was no last-second save.

Once again a last moment save is used to get a character out of danger - Eddard, Davos, Sansa - and that's just this season.

Eddard died in Season One. In Season Six he was saved by Howland Reed during Bran's vision of the raid on the Tower of Joy.

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Remember, Dany wants to claim what's hers by birthright, fighting the White Walkers for Westeros fulfils that as well, it's what happens after the white walkers are defeated... :ph34r:

Till now, I still can't see the point of Sam's plot line... given we are at most 2 seasons away from the end, it's highly unlikely Sam will be able to train as a Maester to make a difference... unless there are other secrets to be found in Old Town...

I think she'll have to fight her way up from King's Landing first, unless the White Walkers reach the south before she does. I don't remember much of GoT's geography, though. Can she sail straight to the north from where she is? Come to think of it, she doesn't even know the White Wlakers exist.

As for Sam, he stole Heartsbane, so that has to figure into the bigger picture somewhere down the line, since Valyrian steel can kill White Walkers.

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I think she'll have to fight her way up from King's Landing first, unless the White Walkers reach the south before she does. I don't remember much of GoT's geography, though. Can she sail straight to the north from where she is? Come to think of it, she doesn't even know the White Wlakers exist.

Yes, she could sail her army to White Harbor which is the main port of the North and I believe even it's biggest city. It's the seat of House Manderly which I believe is pretty loyal to the Starks. Having said that, I believe the Iron Born are pretty capable sailors and could probably sail her to wherever she wanted. Disembarking the Dothraki and their horses would be a logistical nightmare though.

I think a possibility is her landing with the intention of fighting the 7 kingdoms and then being informed of the White Walker threat. I can imagine someone like Jon going to her and telling her to help them fight the White Walkers off and then they will bend their knee to her just like they did to Aegon.

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It would sorta be counter-productive for Daenerys to sail to the North first. Half-way there she would almost sail past King's Landing. Then if she defeated the White Walkers she would have to go back south. Although it was Davos that said to Stannis something like 'Instead of winning the throne to save the kingdom, save the kingdom to win the throne'.

Besides Tyrion and Varys, there is the Red Priest to advise her now.

As for Sam, yes, there are interesting things happening in Old Town.

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I forget, is Mareen farther south....more in line with Dorne, the the Storm Lands and as you said Kings Landing. I agree it would make more sense to stay further south, at least geographically speaking.

Chris

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I forget, is Mareen farther south....more in line with Dorne, the the Storm Lands and as you said Kings Landing. I agree it would make more sense to stay further south, at least geographically speaking.

Chris

Latitude - yeah, more in line with Dorne; Longitude - Meereen is way out to the East, above Slaver's Bay.

Big Map

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Just looked up a map of the SoIaF world. I forgot how large Essos is! I also thought I remembered Braavos being far north too. Glad my memory isn't that bad in my old age! Lol

Missed the map you posted, it's fantastic!

Chris

Edited by Dobber
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Just looked up a map of the SoIaF world. I forgot how large Essos is! I also thought I remembered Braavos being far north too. Glad my memory isn't that bad in my old age! Lol

Missed the map you posted, it's fantastic!

Chris

Here is a HUGE version of the official map: The World of Ice and Fire

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It's like a giant Chess game, everyone is moving their pieces into position.

Seriously, Arya better survive, not gonna accept that bitch did her in... Hound is back and he's ready to Kill again!

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