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Game of Thrones Theory Discussion. Books. Show. Spoilers.


Gakken85
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I'd like to see Jaime save the day and ride off into the sunset with Bronn and Tyrion to go off and have future adventures, to have Dany and Littlefinger kill each other trying to obtain the Iron Throne while King's landing burns down around them and since they made her so cool in the show Lyanna Mormont end up taking control of the North. After whatever happens to breach the wall ( and I suspect it will have to be catastrophic to the Wall, and allow the Night King's army to flow through, I suspect the Night's Watch and probably Winterfell's days are numbered. I still can't get on #teamSansa, I hope the Night's King flushes her down a toilet and Sam comes back with his magic Valyrian Steel sword and the wisdom of the citadel and pulls Jon's butt out of danger and slays the Nights King. Since someone let it leak, maybe GRRm that Brienne is related to Sir Duncan ( Dunk) it feels right for her to go off on adventures with a Targareon if she survives, so again, maybe Jon Snow and Brienne go off to explore the land of Dragons, off the edges of the map of the world we've seen thus far.

Bran has been such a footnote in the show, I'm wondering if he does play any significant part in the ending of the story if GRRM actually told the show writers how the story ends, likewise for Arya, fun "girlpower" storyline, but if she's just going to snuff a few douches, pretty minor player, Maybe she'll get to Cersei right before she flicks her bic to blow up King's landing and save Jaime the dishonor of being a queenslayer as well.

I'll be disappointed if the ending is Dany, Jon and Tyrion on Dragons defeating the Night King's leadership/army army solo screaming "Dracaris" flying over the army of the undead and doing a Duke's of Hazard freeze frame ending, with a symbolic Yeee-Haaaa!!!

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Spoiler to save wall of text and space.

The discussion the two had earlier by the weirwood tree where Littlefinger made his advances again on Sansa but was rebuffed. 'Ol boy did not get want he wanted and you can tell he was not too pleased to come all the way to the north and be rebuffed like that.

Of all the people in Winterfell's hall, Sansa is the one person that understands Littlefinger, how clever he is, how forward thinking he is, how much he knows, and how well he "plays the game." IMO, he's the most dangerous, high profile, yet somewhat low key power player in Westeros. When Petyr Baelish leaves the North, rest assured he's going to have something he wants. I think he wants Sansa more than anything, as much as he plays "the game." But if he's not going to have her, well, he may cause some crap to still come to his benefit. This dude is dangerous.

====

As for Jaime, I believe he will become Queenslayer as well. The prophecy was "Cersei will outlast her children and die by the hands of 'the valonqar'." Valonqar is high valyrian for little brother. The problem for Cersei was she is the oldest of Tywin's 3 children so Jaime though her twin, is a younger brother.

Cersei is going into a short reign of terror that will be destructive to the realm and King's Landing. Cersei has isolated the Iron Throne and House Lannister from every major power in Westeros. She turned once-ally House Tyrell into enemies. The very sharp minded Queen of Thorns has agreed to an alliance with Dorne, which is a power that historically have been enemies with House Tyrell and The Reach. They allied themselves and will greet with open arms Daenerys Targaryen, they will contribute their military power to hers. The Tyrells and Martells want nothing more than vengeance and Lannister blood. The North has completely spun out of control of the Iron Throne. They did nothing when Roose Bolton died. They did nothing when the Vale rode North. They're going to find out that the North once again is united under a new King of the North. They're going to find out Walder Frey is dead. Amidst this strategic disaster that the Iron Throne will discover more of, Cersei will go into mad abuse of power. She will lose but she will lose in a spectacular fashion.

The sad part is Jaime like I said, will be the one to kill her out of necessity. She will go on a path of scorched earth to devastate the realm and King's Landing before her reign ends. That is the exact scenario King Aerys Targaryen was under when Jaime killed him. He was about to destroy King's Landing. He slew King Aerys to save King's Landing and would have to live with the consequences. Throughout the books and bits in the TV show, that title of King Slayer bothered him. He knows it stains his personal honor, important for a man who was among the King's Guard under King Aerys, serving alongside some truly outstanding knights like Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Barristan Selmy. Yet he had forsaken his honor to save King's Landing. He will have to forsake his love for Cersei to end whatever spiral into madness she's going to go into.

The sad part is even if he slays Queen Cersei, he is wholly screwed. He had just killed the one woman he loved. All his children are dead. The last senior, respected leaders of the Lannisters are dead: Tywin, Kevan Lannister are gone. He's going to find out Tyrion is with Daenerys Targaryen (oh the twist on that, a Lannister giving sound counsel to a Targaryen considering Tywin's betrayal of Aerys). The North would be very iffy about him staying alive. But the big alliance down south? OH HELL NO. The Tyrells and Martells want Lannister blood (Tyrion being Hand of Daenerys being the exception). Daenerys will want the head of the man that slew her father.

If things go down like I think they will with Daenerys ascending to the Iron Throne, the only hope Jaime has after killing Cersei is Brienne and Tyrion desperately trying to get his life spared. But even after that, I don't think Jaime can live with himself if he has to do what he must with Cersei.

I'm going to miss Margaery.

I think Jaimie will kill his sister, then himself.

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I was thinking about that look that Sansa and Littlefinger had at the end of the scene, I've read, and was worried myself, that Littlefinger's parting comment at the Weirwood tree landed home and that Sansa would become jeleous of Jon and may be a....problem. BUT, I was thinking that it would be an interesting turn of expectations if Sansa's look was because she know's Littfinger is going to be a problem for Jon and what if SHE ends up protecting Jon from him, turning around what Jon said to her about him protecting her. It would be bitter sweet if Sansa would end up sacrificing herself, in some way, protecting Jon. It would be a great character arc for her...starting off as the spoiled girl who kind of hated her "bastard brother" to a selfless woman who gave all for him in the end.

Chris

Edited by Dobber
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> After whatever happens to breach the wall ( and I suspect it will have to be catastrophic to the Wall

The thing about the wall, it ends at the ocean, and oceans freeze... (or is there something about the wall continuing over the ocean I've forgotten)

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Bran has been such a footnote in the show, I'm wondering if he does play any significant part in the ending of the story if GRRM actually told the show writers how the story ends, likewise for Arya, fun "girlpower" storyline, but if she's just going to snuff a few douches, pretty minor player, Maybe she'll get to Cersei right before she flicks her bic to blow up King's landing and save Jaime the dishonor of being a queenslayer as well.

I do not think Bran will get a lot of screentime, but he will play 2 roles:

1. Unless the shows producers introduce Howland Reed in season 7, Bran is the only one in the show that knows that R+L=J At some point that’s going to become very, very relevant. That knowledge is power. Heck imagine if Littlefinger is the first one to find out that Jon Snow is not the son of Ned Stark.

2. Bran (together with Sam) will be the only ones who will have relevant intelligence pertaining the White Walkers. Bran specially, is the only one who knows about their origin.

I’m less sure about Arya’s role, but I’m sure there’s going to be more deaths before she’s done. Who’s left on her list (the TV show, not the books)? As far as I can recall it’s Cersei, Melisandre, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, and of course The Hound. is The Mountain on there too? I don’t think she’ll get to Cersei since that’s being setup to be a battle between Lannisters, but the Brotherhood guys and Melisandre are strong possibilites. I do wonder if she’ll ever be able to meetup with her family though?

The wait for next season is going to kill me. I think I’m going to just watch it all over again, an episode a week.

Edited by Marzan
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Now this is my own speculation and I have nothing to base this on, but my gut tells me Arya is going to be the tv version of Lady Stone Heart. It just makes sense to me given how both characters are so focused on revenge, and I don't think you can keep running around assassinating people willy nilly without slipping up and getting caught.

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  • 8 months later...

To get ready for the new season I started re-watching the entire show from the start.  Only up to episode 4 and loving it.  Quite a few things that only come up later in the series are first hinted at in these first few episodes.  I really liked one cut away scene where a defender on the wall says that a really cold winter is coming and who will protect the realm - which then cuts away to a shot of the three dragon eggs...

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I don't like the Dorne plot in the show or books but, in the show at least, the show runners clearly knew they shat the bed when the first episode of season 6 had half the characters killed off then remain absent the rest of the season until the finale when Olenna Tyrell ripped them apart. Very cathartic for frustrated watchers and book readers who didn't enjoy the weakest plot of the show.

Now on the other hand the book Dorne is different and unfinished so it has potential to turn out ok and the show did give us some solid Bronn scenes :D

IMO I found Arya's season 5-6 faceless man story arc more pointless and overly long what I feel like the should have done was pull a Bran,Hodor,Yara,Blackfish and had Arya sit out a season instead of giving us two seasons of the same stick whacking "who are you". We could have used that time for more flashbacks or setting up our last minute villain Euron Greyjoy earlier. 

Despite those complains I still think this is the best show on television and can't wait until the new season this summer... and the new book in 2047

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5 hours ago, bob joe mac said:


 and the new book in 2047

An optimist!  Me - I've given up on the books, the comment's about Arya's arc the last two seasons applies to everyone in the last two books.  Though I do have a soft spot for Pretty Pig AKA Bacon.

Edited by Dynaman
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10 hours ago, bob joe mac said:

IMO I found Arya's season 5-6 faceless man story arc more pointless and overly long what I feel like the should have done was pull a Bran,Hodor,Yara,Blackfish and had Arya sit out a season instead of giving us two seasons of the same stick whacking "who are you". We could have used that time for more flashbacks or setting up our last minute villain Euron Greyjoy earlier. 

This.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

"When asked what happened hear, Tell them The North Remembers......

                                                                           .......Tell them, Winter has come for House...

 

Frey"

Chris

Edited by Dobber
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8 hours ago, Dynaman said:

A solid opening, lots of characters going in different directions now.  It looks like Cersei is making yet another major blunder too.

Agree. But damnit, Euron Grejoy is a magnificent bastard in all senses of the word. He's going to get thousands killed before the end of the series.

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55 minutes ago, Marzan said:

Agree. But damnit, Euron Grejoy is a magnificent bastard in all senses of the word. He's going to get thousands killed before the end of the series.

I don't like his character at all, just annoys me to no end - and not in a good way.  This also reminds me, what was the time skip between this episode on the last one?  The Iron Islands have a thousand new ships, Cersei and Jaime seem to have just walked from one room to another, and other things seem to be going at different speeds - perhaps the planet is near a black hole?

Finally - the bit with Sam was great, had me laughing out loud.

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2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

I don't like his character at all, just annoys me to no end - and not in a good way.  This also reminds me, what was the time skip between this episode on the last one?  The Iron Islands have a thousand new ships, Cersei and Jaime seem to have just walked from one room to another, and other things seem to be going at different speeds - perhaps the planet is near a black hole?

Finally - the bit with Sam was great, had me laughing out loud.

Speaking of annoying characters. Sansa.

I'm almost rooting for her to die, I just can't see any monumental leaps in intelligence or likeability in two shortened seasons. Hope to be proven wrong, but I don't have a lot of faith in her character.

-b.

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I

26 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Speaking of annoying characters. Sansa.

I'm almost rooting for her to die, I just can't see any monumental leaps in intelligence or likeability in two shortened seasons. Hope to be proven wrong, but I don't have a lot of faith in her character.

-b.

Yeah, she has matured or at least hardend in some ways due to what she's been through, but I'm not getting this team Sansa thing that is all over the internet. Most reviewers on YouTube seem to harpping on Jon saying "he still hasn't learned anything" "when is he going to start listening to Sansa""he's making the same mistakes as Ned and Robb" ect. I'm not seeing that at all. Robb strictly following the "code of the North" and showing no mercy is what pushed the Karstarks and Umbers away in the first place.Jon executed traitors and insubordinates at the Wall, strictly following the rules. In reality he's being smart, he can forgive but it doesn't mean all is well. Perhaps the Karstarks and Umbers get some of the crap jobs in the army ect, but since this show is being written by Hollywood, I'm sure they will make Sansa, infallible. 

As for Sansa, let's face it she is the reason the Starks fell....or at least got the ball rolling and got her Father killed, by running to Cercie when Ned told her to stay way and that she and Arya where being sent back to the North.....but kept it shut when she was questioned by King Robert and Ned about what happened with the stableboy, Arya, and Geoffrey. She now can't keep her mouth shut and undermines her King...like it or not...in front of all their banner men. That was incredibly stupid and dangerous. It could undermine all that is building in the North and cause division in their allies. Sansa seems to have the habit of speaking out when she doesn't like/agree with others without thinking of the consequences.she wants to be heard....which is valid....but she doesn't seem to listen to others either as she is SOO sure she is right.

Chris

Edited by Dobber
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^

It irks me that there is even a "Team Sansa" to begin with. Granted, granted, as much as her character grinds my gears I appreciate that she's been through some real shi!t for most of the show and that makes me feel in iota of empathy for her. But I sense a real air of arrogance and "I've been through it all so now I know the score" in her and I don't think it's founded.

PLUS something I noticed during my first viewing, but didn't realize until I was just 'out and about' on the internet and came across on article on MSN

Spoiler

 

She has the same hairstyle as Cersei in early seasons. That does not bode well for anyone.


 

So good luck to her and anyone surrounding her.

-b.

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7 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

^

It irks me that there is even a "Team Sansa" to begin with. Granted, granted, as much as her character grinds my gears I appreciate that she's been through some real shi!t for most of the show and that makes me feel in iota of empathy for her. But I sense a real air of arrogance and "I've been through it all so now I know the score" in her and I don't think it's founded.

PLUS something I noticed during my first viewing, but didn't realize until I was just 'out and about' on the internet and came across on article on MSN

  Reveal hidden contents

 

She has the same hairstyle as Cersei in early seasons. That does not bode well for anyone.

 

 

 

 

So good luck to her and anyone surrounding her.

-b.

Well, Jon even pointed out that she seems to admire her and she didn't deny it. I'm not saying she likes her in anyway, but admires could fit.

Chris

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