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Evolution Toy - VF-2SS Valkyrie I 《MACROSS II ~LOVERS AGAIN~&#1


joppewo
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On the subject of design bias towards one mode or the other, I've always felt like in the case of the 2SS the fighter mode is kind of awkward (especially without the SAP pack).the battroid always seemed like the star mode to me with this particular design so I can see why they would focus on it.

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Well if this is essentially a kit (garage) made into toy form, it's not much different than Yamato's original Macross Plus offerings, especially the YF-19 and that would explain a lot of how this toy came out.

I really think that people (or speaking only for myself) would be more forgiving, or even willing to make a purchase if;

1- It's known, and you're okay with buying, a pre-built kit/hybrid toy

2- The price was a little lower, given the price AND quality of current releases

Maybe one of the economic PhDs could see how much a Yamato 1/72 YF-19 would cost in 2016 dollars. And again, bright side, maybe a renewal or improved version will come out sooner vs. later/never.

-b.

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Maybe one of the economic PhDs could see how much a Yamato 1/72 YF-19 would cost in 2016 dollars. And again, bright side, maybe a renewal or improved version will come out sooner vs. later/never.

-b.

I do think about it from a business perspective.

As I recall the Yamato's in 2000 were sold for USD 90. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In today's dollars at 2% inflation that would be USD 124.

Price was not the barrier for me back then, the issue was the design: The old 1/72 Yamato's looked floppy from the start.

I never bit until 1/60 V2 came out.

The same issue applies here with Evolution. MSRP of USD 200, while a bit much, is not the main barrier to general collectors like me. The problem is that the design is just way too outdated for anyone but a die-hard collector.

And manufacturing is more costly these days. So unless Evolution have huge production numbers, I don't see how they could sell for much less.

I think Evolution were betting on success with a niche product with low production numbers for avid collectors.

They have no one to blame but themselves if they end up breaking the bank. Transforming valks have become so advanced that only the foolhardy would enter that market, without the right staff.

But if they sell their units and turn a profit, good for them. It's a business after all.

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I do think about it from a business perspective.

As I recall the Yamato's in 2000 were sold for USD 90. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In today's dollars at 2% inflation that would be USD 124.

Price was not the barrier for me back then, the issue was the design: The old 1/72 Yamato's looked floppy from the start.

I never bit until 1/60 V2 came out.

The same issue applies here with Evolution. MSRP of USD 200, while a bit much, is not the main barrier to general collectors like me. The problem is that the design is just way too outdated for anyone but a die-hard collector.

And manufacturing is more costly these days. So unless Evolution have huge production numbers, I don't see how they could sell for much less.

I think Evolution were betting on success with a niche product with low production numbers for avid collectors.

They have no one to blame but themselves if they end up breaking the bank. Transforming valks have become so advanced that only the foolhardy would enter that market, without the right staff.

But if they sell their units and turn a profit, good for them. It's a business after all.

Fair. Business is business.

Full disclosure, I'm not rooting against these guys at all, it's an interesting study in Macross/toy collecting.

Also for the record I bit on the Yamato 1/72 YF-19, if it wasn't for that I would have never found Macross World - so thanks Yamato! :lol:

1/72 Yamato YF-19 MSRP was 6800 yen.

http://www.hlj.com/product/YMTMC-01/Sci

Sure do miss those days. If the stuff I liked (still) cost that much I'd have entire colonization fleets of Valkyries.

-b.

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Still, it will be a custom/re modelling project, and hopefully with the help of all the talented 3d printing gurus out there, a better looking/holding fighter should be feasible

I don't feel I should have to rely on 3D-printed Shapeways parts to make it look good. There's a significant amount of skill and effort required to make Shapeways prints look "finished". Honestly, its great that we have 3D printing available to consumers, but the technology just isn't quite there yet for this type of an end-user application. If you're making prints in addition to doing mods and custom work, more power to you, but for Average Robot Toy Enthusiast, that's not gonna fly.

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Actually, the small folding arm tabs that would have made a huge difference in holding the VF-2SS together in fighter mode are hidden during that mode and mostly hidden in battroid/gerwalk mode. It would be like purchasing the hinges that break on the V2 VF-1 via shapeways....they too are mostly hidden and their "finish" is not as important as the "job" they are meant to perform...which is to hold the toy together....I would definitely welcome someone redesigning those arm tabs so they are a bit thicker so it holds in place better when inserted into the leg slots...

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Actually, the small folding arm tabs that would have made a huge difference in holding the VF-2SS together in fighter mode are hidden during that mode and mostly hidden in battroid/gerwalk mode. It would be like purchasing the hinges that break on the V2 VF-1 via shapeways....they too are mostly hidden and their "finish" is not as important as the "job" they are meant to perform...which is to hold the toy together....I would definitely welcome someone redesigning those arm tabs so they are a bit thicker so it holds in place better when inserted into the leg slots...

I've got the shoulder fix parts and I agree, what you're describing is an acceptable application of 3D-printed stuff to make the toy better. But anything more than that I'm gonna harumph at.

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I've got the shoulder fix parts and I agree, what you're describing is an acceptable application of 3D-printed stuff to make the toy better. But anything more than that I'm gonna harumph at.

I'm with you!

For example, I am sure someone would be able to design a new tailwing assembly that actually locks in place properly with the booster...but that would require skill to make it look presentable...it is a part that is in plain sight so it just wouldn't look right if installed straight off of a shapeways printer....another example would be redesigning the "white plank" hanging off the backpack.....it too is in plain sight so it would require some skill to make it look right....

Still, I would really like to see some of our design gurus make those improvements....

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Maybe someday we will get something closer to this.

vf-2ss6a.jpeg

agreed but with nose gear that doesn't look like its about to collapse..

This is nice of course but it still doesn't look right.. compared to the line art anyway. This Valkyrie is an odd ball as its design is kinda radical yet still conservative. Clearly ET couldn't quite to get it looking right and to be honest im thinking even Arcadia and Bandai would struggle too.

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So... I guess I'm kind of in the minority in that I'm not upset with the Evolution Toys VF-2SS.

I'm no toy collector, and I wasn't expecting Arcadia-level perfection from Evolution Toys. I adore the VF-2SS. It's hands-down my favorite Valkyrie in all of Macross, and knowing its design as intimately as I do after years spent chasing every last little bit of concept and production art that's ever seen print I'm actually reasonably satisfied with how the toy turned out. It's a slick design, one I've always compared to a streamlined race car, but the way it transforms in the animation just isn't an easy thing to adapt to a toy... especially the way the pelvic bar folds into a U-shape to bring the legs further inboard for Battroid mode.

I won't say Evolution Toys knocked it out of the park, because they didn't, but it's a marked improvement over what we had before from the Bandai snap-fit kit and the final product looks sharp enough in fighter mode that I have no regrets about adding it to my collection. Like my DX's and my Arcadia VF-0S, I will likely never transform it out of fighter mode, so IMO it's all gravy.

I fully intend to keep my preorder for the Fairy Platoon version and preorder the Nex Gilbert version when that comes out.

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While it IS an oddball design, honestly there is far more anime magic in designs like the YF-19, YF-22, VF-17 and others than there is with this. I think we can all see design possibilities that would improve the toy immensely. Some things are simple aesthetics (the legs are curvy and almost "muscular" in the line art - interestingly that shape makes both the battroid AND the fighter look more dynamic), others a little more out-of-the box (like folding faux "intakes" in front of the shoulders in jet mode that cover the leg hinges and lock them in place), and of course a better hinge system for the backpack thrusters that not only ditches that awkward joint, but lifts them up higher in battroid mode. I think it would also help if the cockpit could be angled as well (or have the chest plate slide back on an angled slider)- it definitely sits differently in jet mode than battroid, and that angle effects how it lines up with the curves of the cockpit cover. What surprises me is that Evolution didn't use magnets to hold the jet mode together - they use them in so many of their other collectibles.

Bandai and Arcadia could clean up the problems on this without any problem if they bring their A-game. Heck, after seeing the new Orguss, I think Megahouse could nail it. The funny thing is, the VF designs in Mac2 actually seem easier to adapt into toys than the original VF-1. The cockpit cover doesn't fold in and disappear, there's no crazy side covers folding out of almost nowhere, and the wide leg placement means you don't have to squish the arms down to fit - compared to almost everything Yamato/Arcadia has done, this should be a walk in the park.

At the same time, this really seems like the work of some small garage company that has some real love for it's products, but the skills and tools involved are what you'd expect from a garage modeller trying to go pro with the resources in his basement. I really do wish them the best and hope they get enough business (and pay enough attention to the feedback) that they could come back with better.

I wanna see a VF-2J dammit - for some reason to me it was the design that felt the most "Macross" out of what was in M2, and it has a few cool tricks in its transformation that make it unique (I really dig the double hinged intake covers, the cool backwards rotating arms that actually have side covers built in, and the wings that could flip into a reverse wing mode for gerwalk).

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So... I guess I'm kind of in the minority in that I'm not upset with the Evolution Toys VF-2SS.

I'm no toy collector, and I wasn't expecting Arcadia-level perfection from Evolution Toys. I adore the VF-2SS. It's hands-down my favorite Valkyrie in all of Macross, and knowing its design as intimately as I do after years spent chasing every last little bit of concept and production art that's ever seen print I'm actually reasonably satisfied with how the toy turned out. It's a slick design, one I've always compared to a streamlined race car, but the way it transforms in the animation just isn't an easy thing to adapt to a toy... especially the way the pelvic bar folds into a U-shape to bring the legs further inboard for Battroid mode.

I won't say Evolution Toys knocked it out of the park, because they didn't, but it's a marked improvement over what we had before from the Bandai snap-fit kit and the final product looks sharp enough in fighter mode that I have no regrets about adding it to my collection. Like my DX's and my Arcadia VF-0S, I will likely never transform it out of fighter mode, so IMO it's all gravy.

I fully intend to keep my preorder for the Fairy Platoon version and preorder the Nex Gilbert version when that comes out.

Was wondering when you would chime in.... ^_^

I am really curious to hear opinions from others who have had a chance to see it in person and handle it....I think it's pluses outweigh it's obvious flaws...in the few days that I have had it...it has really grown on me, especially the battroid mode.....it has a nice solid feel and commanding presence...I am really looking forward to seeing it in SAP-equipped mode...needless to say, I too am keeping the Faerie type pre-order and will definitely get the Nexx as well when it become available...

I wonder how many -2SS's ET actually produced...it can't be more than 1000 units for such a niche valk and much maligned Macross series...

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So... I guess I'm kind of in the minority in that I'm not upset with the Evolution Toys VF-2SS.

I'm no toy collector, and I wasn't expecting Arcadia-level perfection from Evolution Toys. I adore the VF-2SS. It's hands-down my favorite Valkyrie in all of Macross, and knowing its design as intimately as I do after years spent chasing every last little bit of concept and production art that's ever seen print I'm actually reasonably satisfied with how the toy turned out. It's a slick design, one I've always compared to a streamlined race car, but the way it transforms in the animation just isn't an easy thing to adapt to a toy... especially the way the pelvic bar folds into a U-shape to bring the legs further inboard for Battroid mode.

I won't say Evolution Toys knocked it out of the park, because they didn't, but it's a marked improvement over what we had before from the Bandai snap-fit kit and the final product looks sharp enough in fighter mode that I have no regrets about adding it to my collection. Like my DX's and my Arcadia VF-0S, I will likely never transform it out of fighter mode, so IMO it's all gravy.

I fully intend to keep my preorder for the Fairy Platoon version and preorder the Nex Gilbert version when that comes out.

That's really good to read.

It sounds like an accurate evaluation that matches with my own interpretation of what the toy was going to be based on all the many pictures we've been shown. I think it's still a product I'll have to pass on, but even with it's flaws, I was tempted.

Thanks for the weighing in!

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I think this is pretty much how I feel about it. Mine hasn't arrived yet, but I've waited long enough for any version of the VF-2SS, and the photos all look as nice as anything I could have hoped for. Materials flaws aside, I think any problems with it are things I can easily live with. I'm tracking my shipment with my breath held.

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I guess I lucked out with my EMS delivery....helps to be near O'Hare too I suppose! ^_^

I dunno what the hell happened with mine... tracking says it went through customs in frigging Alaska, and yet somehow materialized on my doorstep only about eight hours later... and I'm in MI, about 4/5ths of the way across the continent.

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Any diecast content?

Only the swing bar from what I can tell....unless you want to count pins and screws.... :rolleyes:

If you were to melt down the metal content of an HMR VF-1 and VF-2SS....the HMR would probably have more metal... ^_^

Besides the thigh swivel joint, I thought the knee joints were also diecast and the one on the back that folds from the chest are diecast too. Any confirmation on this? Thanks!

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Glad to hear it's pretty solid in battroid, from the pics it looks to be its best mode all around. I might be tempted to grab one of the SAP versions later down the road, but I've never been that interested in this design to begin with. I'd probably grab it for the fighter mode anyway, but I think the loose assembly and proportions in that mode don't do the design justice.

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For a holy grail toy it's okay. Just opened mine up. Slightly better than an upscaled bandai kit but at least with the bandai you get SAP armour and two guns. This for the price paid ....eh.

Fighter - froppy mess

Gerwalk - dunno skipped it

Battroid - decent.

Diecast : swing bars. Knees. Shoulder bars.

Wtf: 1) gun has a tab on it. When you try to close the fist it untabs because of the shape of the grip.

2) knees don't bend because of the stupid back thigh overhang. If it was a panel that moved no problem but it's not.

Add in all the other small issues it's like Evolution toys designed it 85% of the way and said," frakk it we're done." So close to making this great.

That said though I think I can get some good poses out of it.

post-93-0-85556400-1456196712_thumb.jpg

post-93-0-21947300-1456196724_thumb.jpg

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Question for our garage kit specialists, since Evo is clearly a small company, one might even say an overgrown garage kit firm.

I see garage kits like "Experten" go for USD 500.

And people get all excited about his new releases.

Personally, I know nothing about garage kits at all.

But how would the quality of this figure stack up against those garage kits people rave about and are willing to plonk down any amount of money for?

Edited by arbit
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I got mine. Wasn't expecting much. but was still fairly disappointed. The legs in battroid...... damn it. I have built the bandai kit in the past. I really have to say , I prefer the kit, at least it could pose better and stand in a couple more poses.

oh well, that was an expensive experiment. damn

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Personally, I never really liked this kit, due to the extreme down angle of the nose.

We get blinded by the delivery here - it's the really awesome weathering, shading, and details that make people keep coming back to this.

The nose is off, but the angle matches it up with the curves on the leg - it's a nice visual trick - but yeah, it takes away from the crazy "futuristic" fighter look it had - heh, for the nineties.

Still, I get what people are saying - even with what this does wrong, it gets a little bit how the dynamic of the design works. The evolution toy steps towards that direction and seems to stumble before it gets there. I'm still happy to see it made, it captures the style and sensibilities (IMHO) of that era so well!

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Got mine yesterday and I like it well enough. For me a lot of the fun came from checking out a new toy by a company that never did Macross before. The finished product isn't as refined as what we're used to, but that's to be expected I think. I don't think it's too light (feels just as heavy as a similarly sized Arcadia/Bandai toy to me), I don't think it feels like a model kit and I don't think it feels like a Banpresto toy. I think part of the 'cheap' perception is due to the plastic not having as nice of a finish as we get from Bandai/Arcadia. It's more raw, some of the edges are sharper and less polished.

It'll require a bit of care during transforming because of a couple areas with small screws/pins and thin plastic, but I'm used to that. Fighter mode doesn't lock up as tight as an Arcadia or Bandai DX but I wouldn't really call it a floppy mess, either. Once the tabs are all in place it holds up to swooshing and barrel rolls and that's all I need it to do. If you enjoy shaking your toys you'll probably be disappointed.

Battroid is great, super solid, arms have nice double-jointed elbows and clicky joints. The hips are restricted when fully locked into place but you can make some adjustments to get a wider range and it will stand solidly.

Lastly if the pink/ultraviolet tinted white plastic we've been seeing on products recently bothers you, you wont like this.

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