Agent ONE Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 You avoided my point in favor of unnecessary snark. My point was that Star Trek was about something, not just mindless JJ effects bullshit. You could easily make a fast paced, modern, sci-fi looking/sounding Star Trek that is ACTUALLY ABOUT SOMETHING. Hell, look at the praise for movies like Birdman and Interstellar. Aren't both of movies about the human condition? Star Trek was about that and more but these past two movies, while flashy, aren't about a God Damned thing. And that's my problem with them. ... The 'human condition' is a buzzword meaning people don't have to take responsibility for their actions. A 'progressive' term for those who want to blame society for their problems... You can't use the two bolded phrases together. That doesn't make sense. Aside from my not liking your selection of words, I think you are attempting to make a point, but you are distracted by saying that the writers are idiots and JJ is all about lens flares. Please provide the deep messages that you receive the first 6 Star Trek films. Here is my list: Star Trek the Motion Picture - We made the enterprise shiny, and the whole film could have been cut to the length of a trailer without losing any value. Star Trek II - Crazy MutherFukers can show up anywhere, even on abandoned moons. Star Trek III - Its good to have friends Star Trek IV - We ran out of money, so we thought to shoot a film running in plain clothes running around San Francisco, all while ramming a political message down everyone's throat. Star Trek V - A remake of the Motion Picture, but instead of flying the enterprise into a big white cloud, this time it will be a red cloud. Star Trek VI - Hey we made a badass movie! Its about the division between exploration and the temptations of conquest (kind of the whole premise of the TV show). This is a movie that is actually worth seeing! Now you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight26 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Ultimately Star Trek belongs on the small screen. It was created as a medium for up and coming writers to use as a playground, all the while pushing Gene Rodenberry's message of utopia through human cooperation. Not a bad way to do business. They could have done both though, if done properly. A big screen blockbuster every few years telling the big story or capping off a multi-season arc, while doing the smaller, more personal stories that build up the characters on the small screen. But let's face it, the producers, actors, etc... would never go for that, not since most of them are movie people primarily. I feel the same way about most of the comic book properties as well, DC especially. For the most part, they work better on the small screen, telling the little stories and working into larger arcs, then the horrid SFX laden huge big screen movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronocidal Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 As much as people rag on ST:TMP, I still think it's the best of the "bad" TOS movies, but it really is more in the interstellar navel gazing vein that a lot of TNG was. Cut out the 20 min iMac screensaver sequence, and the movie gets a bit better. ST:VI is still one of my favorites. The entire cold war allegory and the Hamlet thing got kind of silly, but it was a solid political intrigue plot that worked well with the characters. Though, the TNG action movie thing.. by the time the TNG movies were getting done, I think the shift to more action oriented plots on DS9 and Voyager probably contributed to that. Once people saw modern action-oriented Trek, with all the political intrigue and big space battles, the damage was probably done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technoblue Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 ^ I agree with Chronocidal on Star Trek: TMP. I consider it the outlier of the odd-numbered films, because it had a decent premise that fit in well with the television series. ST: TMP was also the first telling of a first contact scenario, and it was done with what I still consider above par writing for Trek. Yeah, it had a lot of padding for the big screen, but I liked the premise of having a Voyager spacecraft complete its original mission "accidentally" and in doing so create the necessary conflict for the film. The ending was sappy, but that is also very much TOS Star Trek. One scene that has stayed with me, though, is the scene of the transporter accident. I heard that was added in to remove extra actors when Paramount decided not to use TMP as a tie in for a new series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Actually, between Enterprise and the new films I'd say we've learned that ST is better on the big screen in 2 hour action packed chunks. 1 is an awesome movie btw, much better than when it was "The Changeling." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobber Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The 'human condition' is a buzzword meaning people don't have to take responsibility for their actions. A 'progressive' term for those who want to blame society for their problems...I really like that. That put to words exactly how I feal about that phrase being so over-used when shows or movies end up with shitty characters, doing shitty things, and generally acting shittily."Oh it's an exploration of the human condition". Yes people do crappy things to each other, but we also can show tremendous compation for one another too, but when the good is shown then another term gets thrown around....Sappy. In Hollywood only the bad is considered "The Human Condition" Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technoblue Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) I really like that. That put to words exactly how I feal about that phrase being so over-used when shows or movies end up with shitty characters, doing shitty things, and generally acting shittily. "Oh it's an exploration of the human condition". Yes people do crappy things to each other, but we also can show tremendous compation for one another too, but when the good is shown then another term gets thrown around....Sappy. In Hollywood only the bad is considered "The Human Condition" Chris I wouldn't go that far. A well written story or film can show both sides of "the human condition" without resorting to tricks or gimmicks. ST:TMP was sappy not because of Commander Decker's sacrifice at the end or the mutual attraction between him and Ilia, but because the connection/bond between those two characters was tenuous. I think if the movie was made today, then there would have been more effort to make their relationship substantial and add weight to the deus ex machina ending. I do agree that bad characterizations can ruin any story. But protagonists do not have to be lawful good and the corresponding antagonists do not have to be chaotic evil. Those simple structures are not always necessary. I do think all characters should be researched well, solid and true to his or her (sometimes its) motives, whatever they may be. Edited December 31, 2014 by technoblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 In Hollywood only the bad is considered "The Human Condition" Chris Almost every "Chick Flick" is about the "Human Condition" and many of them are excellent. As much as it pains me to admit it... So too are many of the Oscar winners. ST2 and 6 certainly had that going for them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Almost every "Chick Flick" is about the "Human Condition" and many of them are excellent. As much as it pains me to admit it... So too are many of the Oscar winners. ST2 and 6 certainly had that going for them as well. You need to look up the term. You know whats better than the 'progressive' pansy ass human condition movies? Human centipede movies... I agree with the human centipede films more than the human condition ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 The 'human condition' is a buzzword meaning people don't have to take responsibility for their actions. Ya lost me, coach. And I like ST4. It makes me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 You need to look up the term. You know whats better than the 'progressive' pansy ass human condition movies? Human centipede movies... I agree with the human centipede films more than the human condition ones. No, I don't think I do. I do see you are not interested in an actual discussion however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taksraven Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Star Trek IV - We ran out of money, so we thought to shoot a film running in plain clothes running around San Francisco, all while ramming a political message down everyone's throat. Now you go. ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!! Respect animals and respect the environment is a terrible, dirty, filthy political message that should never be forced down anyone's throat!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!! Respect animals and respect the environment is a terrible, dirty, filthy political message that should never be forced down anyone's throat!!I thought the message was "save the 80s" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptormesh Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding hollywood vernacular but has the term human condition been subverted towards negativity and pansification(not a word)? AFAIK the term is neutral and all encompassing which contributes very little towards any discussion, and shouldn't be brandished about like a meter long trout. Using it as the base of any discussion is like say, attempting the long jump by starting the run in quicksand. On topic, I just watched the 2009 movie again while waiting for the fireworks to go up and it was quite entertaining although there were some painful plot moments. I am going in with no expectations so this new one may surprise me. Edited January 1, 2015 by raptormesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 The "human condition" is our essential experience of being human and the journey through life we all take. We're talking the good, the bad, and the ugly of it all. It really doesn't mean anything else but that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechaninac Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) ^ The only caveat to that is that movie makers tend to focus far more on the bad and the ugly, than the good... too often glorifying the bad and the ugly, sometimes to the point of portraying the worst of human degeneracy as the norm of the "human condition"; while, at the same time, denigrating the good as old fashioned, judgmental, and unenlightened. The definition of "Human Condition" may be neutral, but it's use in practice often is not; more of a lowest-common-denominator "fun house mirror" tool to steer audiences' perceptions and opinions. Let's face it, though... it's nothing new, and bad and ugly are far more entertaining than good and honorable. Edited January 1, 2015 by mechaninac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobber Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 ^ The only caveat to that is that movie makers tend to focus far more on the bad and the ugly, than the good... too often glorifying the bad and the ugly, sometimes to the point of portraying the worst of human degeneracy as the norm of the "human condition"; while, at the same time, denigrating the good as old fashioned, judgmental, and unenlightened. The definition of "Human Condition" may be neutral, but it's use in practice often is not; more of a lowest-common-denominator "fun house mirror" tool to steer audiences' perceptions and opinions. EXACTLY what I was trying to say....I just can't seem to express what my thoughts are very well. You have said it perfectly though. Thank you. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EXO Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think Star Trek is a difficult property to get right... It's stuck between boring, exciting, ridiculous, philosophical, fantasy and sci-fi. Everytime it goes towards one side, fans of the other type start to complain. That's why the original movie series was all over the place with quality. The last movie was really bad though. Even someone like me, who's not a Star Trek fan thought it was way off base with the terrorism and action Spock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I really like that. That put to words exactly how I feal about that phrase being so over-used when shows or movies end up with shitty characters, doing shitty things, and generally acting shittily. "Oh it's an exploration of the human condition". Yes people do crappy things to each other, but we also can show tremendous compation for one another too, but when the good is shown then another term gets thrown around....Sappy. In Hollywood only the bad is considered "The Human Condition" Chris Looks like we are the only two who get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!! Respect animals and respect the environment is a terrible, dirty, filthy political message that should never be forced down anyone's throat!! You took my words further than they are meant to go. I don't mean I hated the message they are giving me, I just don't like political propaganda in my entertainment. Here is an example: I grew up in a marginally religious house. We go to church for christmas and easter. I don't have a problem with anyone's religion, but when someone stops me on the street, and they trys to tell me that they have this whole religion thing nailed, and I have to listen to them or else... I lose my sh!t. I typically threaten them physically, even if none of the things they are saying are really offensive to me... Its just not their place to interrupt my day. If I want a political message, or a religious message to absorb, I will find it myself. I also like animals. Recently had some shark fin soup in China, and I was furious when I found out what it was... I let my hosts know I did not appreciate what they had given me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 "Deepest blue-est, my soup is like a sharks fin." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanedas Bike Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I think Star Trek is a difficult property to get right... It's stuck between boring, exciting, ridiculous, philosophical, fantasy and sci-fi. Everytime it goes towards one side, fans of the other type start to complain. That's why the original movie series was all over the place with quality. The last movie was really bad though. Even someone like me, who's not a Star Trek fan thought it was way off base with the terrorism and action Spock. Quoted for truth. Honestly I never thought Star Trek had the ability to create such hot-button debates, but this thread sure proved me wrong! You took my words further than they are meant to go. I don't mean I hated the message they are giving me, I just don't like political propaganda in my entertainment. Here is an example: I grew up in a marginally religious house. We go to church for christmas and easter. I don't have a problem with anyone's religion, but when someone stops me on the street, and they trys to tell me that they have this whole religion thing nailed, and I have to listen to them or else... I lose my sh!t. I typically threaten them physically, even if none of the things they are saying are really offensive to me... Its just not their place to interrupt my day. If I want a political message, or a religious message to absorb, I will find it myself. I also like animals. Recently had some shark fin soup in China, and I was furious when I found out what it was... I let my hosts know I did not appreciate what they had given me. A million times agree. And while I'm pretty desensitized to propaganda of any type in entertainment I could still do without it. All of that said, with the choice of director I'm expecting this Star Trek to be action on top of action + some occasional techno-babble. -b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyp Durron Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommar Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hmm, Simon Pegg is now co-writing the third movie. http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/401959-simon-pegg-is-co-writing-star-trek-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TehPW Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 dunno what to make of this. Pegg does comedies, not action films...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 What flavor of Cornetto will be used in the script? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, none of this really bodes well. Man, the reboot looks to be flaming out fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If Nick Frost cameos as a red shirt. EHHHHHH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 dunno what to make of this. Pegg does comedies, not action films...?A Piece of the Action: The Motion Picture.What, Trek comedy automatically has to involve tribbles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areaseven Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynaman Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 dunno what to make of this. Pegg does comedies, not action films...? I don't think they can be pegged (snicker) down that easily. End of the World certainly had action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sildani Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 At least Pegg's a dyed-in-the-wool Star Trek fan. That doesn't mean it'll be good, mind you, but at least he'll TRY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles316 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Numerouse Star Trek actors have moved into directing why would Simon Pegg's writing be automaticle bad? I ask because I have only seen him in ST1, INTO darkness, and Shawn of the dead and have no extencive experiance with the actors work. Edited January 22, 2015 by miles316 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electric indigo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Maybe it's time for Trek to move into full-blown comedy territory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TangledThorns Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'd rather have Simon Pegg write the next film than he fools that wrote the last film, they should be kicked in the nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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