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NEW MACROSS TV SERIES ANNOUNCED!


Tochiro
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Oh please oh please oh please oh please oh please let it be that the new Macros TV series would be Macross the First.

If not ..... I'd still be thankful there's a new Macross sequel! Bring it on, BW!

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I'm not to keen onthe idea of a reboot because then it is highly unlikely that Kawamori will design new Valkyries for it. A Macross the First style reboot would probably lead to the usage of VF-1 Valkyries by the U.N.Spacy.

I know the mecha part of Macross F is probably the most uninteresting feature of Frontier for the most fans but it is the selling point for me. I would love to see a new generation of Variable Fighters for the new show.

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jvmacross don't misunderstand me, I'm not advocating the nostalgia viewer or their demands. In fact, my position is that a change of generation is what's needed to make Macross relevant (at least for me personally). I don't want a new Macross series to beat my nostalgia and it doesn't have to; all it needs is to be good on it's own merits and I'm in love. The first new Star Trek (2009) film is a perfect example; it didn't beat 20+ years of nostalgic love for a franchise of my youth and it didn't have to; it just had to be good on it's own merits and it was great! To my mind, Macross Plus WAS that example for the Macross franchise; it went in a completely different direction, smaller scope, different tone and yet was unmistakably a brilliant Macross sequel done right. Macross Plus didn't have to beat SDF Macross or my nostalgia cause it was just great Macross. That's all I need.

Regarding Sandman and Vifam7 points, I agree that not a lot of people have been given the opportunity to design Valkyrie-like mecha either in or out of the Macross franchise. But again, don't misunderstand me; I don't believe Kawamori's the only human being capable of designing an accomplished transforming fighter/robot. All I'm saying is there are more who can't than can even among the ranks of the great mecha designers. Kawamori has basically created his own micro-economy of demand in which he is simply the best supplier, so the vendors find alternatives difficult to obtain, if you follow my analogy :)

I just don't think Kawamori divorced Macross is likely to happen or is a thing that anyone on the production side even wants to contemplate. The Kawamori Macross installments have all been successful, especially Frontier. So there's every reason to expect Kawamori will lead once again. But new creative control would be nice :)

That's really well said.

And truly all it comes down to is wanting a *good* series.

-b.

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All i'm really saying is that Kawamori has a unique background that allows him to design valk a specific way. I can't think of any mech designer that has that background. If someone else were to take the reign it's doubtful they will be able to maintain that certain aesthetic. (eg how the metal siren is more super-robot looking). Does this make sense?

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:lol: it could have Idols and Metal like BabyMetal

:p

OMG :blink:

(SHUDDER)... I hate Babymetal... give me Momoiro Clover any day...

I dont blame you. I was a heavy metal fan for over 15 years and I have listened to every genre, from Led Zeppelin to Black Metal to opera Metal and all the experimental stuff but that Babymetal...is the weirdest and most nauseating thing I have ever seen (no offence to anyone who likes them).

What we can realistically expect of the Macross franchise at this point is something of the same quality as Macross Frontier. I enjoyed Macross Frontier but I know some didn't. But I can't imagine another "Macross Plus" scenario in the future for the franchise. I hope I'm wrong. I'd welcome new blood into the franchise, certainly helped when Shinichiro Watanabe came along :)

I really liked the Frontier so if the new one follows in that line then I would be quite happy.

But then the question would be whether fans would ever accept anything other than a Kawamori led Macross anime. If not, then the Macross franchise, for better or worse, would be somewhat limited in how it could grow in the future.

I suppose you can never please them all. Apologies for continuing with the Lucas/Star Wars analogy however it has been the same scenario there too. A lot of Original Trilogy fans hated the Prequels and the Clone Wars however the latter two brought in a lot more fans to the franchise. Maybe BW should follow the same strategy after Kawamori retires i.e. dont bring out anything for a long time and the fans will be that eager for a new release that they will accept anything (Kawamori involved or not).

Edited by megaprime
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Aww, thanks Kaneda :wub:

Sandman
I definitely understand what you're saying. Shoji Kawamori - by virtue of being an aviation enthusiast - granted all his Valkyrie creations a certain level of stylistic realism and aerodynamic plausibility that would be very hard for even a master to reproduce or extrapolate. I agree with your example that the VF-2SS Valkyrie II - for all the merits of it's appealing style - doesn't feel like a Macross mecha as established by the collective aesthetic of the Kawamori designed Valks. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The Metal Siren is downright Gundam-ized to the point that it doesn't even feel like it belongs in the same universe. So yeah, I agree it'd be a hard break at this point in such a long tooth franchise.

1/1 LowViz Lurker

Wow, that is a lot of weird stuff :blink:

Bottom line is that most of the Macross concepts developed during and after Macross7 are what most Macross old schoolers find "wrong" with the franchise....It's not the Macross they grew up with... MacrossF had considerably less of it and thus was better received by that section of the fandom....basically it was less like M7, M0...and more like SDFM, DYRL, M+.....

jvmacross
Kinda, but again for art/entertainment to be great (at least for me) it doesn't need to kau tau to the old school nostalgia of my formative years. In fact that slavish reverence to - and exploitation of - old pop culture is precisely what's wrong with entertainment today (at least North American entertainment). Modern entertainment need only achieve greatness on it's own merits. To me, The Raid is every bit the classic that is Die Hard. The Matrix, Inception and The Avengers are every bit as precious to me as The Road Warrior, Alien and Star Wars. And at the risk of offending the denizens of a Macross board, Cowboy Bebop shares the same place in my heart as Super DImension Fortress Macross (gasp!). Too bad it doesn't have enough mecha ;)

I don't need the next Macross to be "like" this or that; in fact, if the next Macross series was less like any Macross that came before it, that would be ideal...as long as it's good :)

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Someone just throw a wad of cash in Mikimotos hands and tell him to interfere.

Kawamori should have a portfolio full of future valks just in case.

I think Mikimoto is a better story teller, Kawamori needs to behind the images.

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Heh... I've never, ever heard anyone say that about Mikimoto. I can assure you I for one did not buy all volumes of Macross 7 Trash and Marionette Generation, or Cherish or Reverb, for the "story".

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The Metal Siren is downright Gundam-ized to the point that it doesn't even feel like it belongs in the same universe.

I don't need the next Macross to be "like" this or that; in fact, if the next Macross series was less like any Macross that came before it, that would be ideal...as long as it's good :)

Agreed that "as long as it's good" is what really matters when all is said and done....

However, I do not think you can say you don't need Macross to be "like this or like that".....while complaining that a craft like the Metal Siren feels like it does not belong "in the same universe"......in short, Macross does need to be "Macross-like" and stick to what makes Macross....well....Macross ^_^

Maybe the issue is that Macross to various fans is defined by their favorite show(s).......but, in general, the core of any Macross show are still....Music, transforming fighters, and love triangles......The weight each of these 3 components is given in any particular series, whether real or perceived, is what makes fans like one show over another.....

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Agreed that "as long as it's good" is what really matters when all is said and done....

However, I do not think you can say you don't need Macross to be "like this or like that".....while complaining that a craft like the Metal Siren feels like it does not belong "in the same universe"......in short, Macross does need to be "Macross-like" and stick to what makes Macross....well....Macross ^_^

Maybe the issue is that Macross to various fans is defined by their favorite show(s).......but, in general, the core of any Macross show are still....Music, transforming fighters, and love triangles......The weight each of these 3 components is given in any particular series, whether real or perceived, is what makes fans like one show over another.....

Careful...I never said Macross II wasn't Macross just because I have an opinion on the Gundam-like appearance of the Metal Siren. The destroids look nothing like Valkyries and they are as much Macross as Minmay :)

But yes, quality is my only benchmark. I think the one thing folks have to understand - and SHOULD be an absolute requirement for all long time fans - is to have self-awareness about what Macross means now living in the world after it's release. Once any creative art/entertainment is released, the fans should come to terms with it. We live in a post-Macross world and we as fans can't ever look at life the same way as it was before Macross came to be, at the risk of sounding a little melodramatic. Point being, fans should neither hold any subsequent Macross (or otherwise) to the nostalgica benchmark the original set nor should fans exploit their love of Macross as a poor excuse to defend poor sequels. That's all I want to advocate and I hope the next Macross series stands well on the strength of it's own merits.

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Careful...I never said Macross II wasn't Macross just because I have an opinion on the Gundam-like appearance of the Metal Siren. The destroids look nothing like Valkyries and they are as much Macross as Minmay :)

But yes, quality is my only benchmark. I think the one thing folks have to understand - and SHOULD be an absolute requirement for all long time fans - is to have self-awareness about what Macross means now living in the world after it's release. Once any creative art/entertainment is released, the fans should come to terms with it. We live in a post-Macross world and we as fans can't ever look at life the same way as it was before Macross came to be, at the risk of sounding a little melodramatic. Point being, fans should neither hold any subsequent Macross (or otherwise) to the nostalgica benchmark the original set nor should fans exploit their love of Macross as a poor excuse to defend poor sequels. That's all I want to advocate and I hope the next Macross series stands well on the strength of it's own merits.

Yes, you never did question Macross II's "Macross" standing....nor did I ever say you were somehow diminishing it's status as a true Macross show.....

What I was pointing out was your assertion that a Macross show does not need to be "this or that".....when it actually does need to be "Macross-like" (regardless if it is ultimately a "good" or "bad" show, we expect certain things from a Macross show, which have been brought up before).....why else would you need to point out the fact that the Metal Siren is "Gundam-like", which by default means "un-Macross-like"....or as you pointed out that it seemed as it did not belong "in the same universe"......that universe being, assumingly, the "Macross Universe". :)

Honestly, how many Macross fans would actually care for a Macross series with absolutely no transforming fighters?

Edited by jvmacross
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Honestly, how many Macross fans would actually care for a Macross series with absolutely no transforming fighters?

The Musicalture was really good. And Macross 7 Trash and Macross Generation are okay.

Granted, they're not animated, but they are Macross.

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Honestly, how many Macross fans would actually care for a Macross series with absolutely no transforming fighters?

Well it's not really a matter of "care" since it's more a part of the branding these days. As the one female fan the Speaker Podcast interviewed (the one who said Ranka is TOO GIRLISH), she thought the mecha were there for world building. She clearly liked Macross but didn't care about the robots. I'm not really bothered with the robots being window dressing for as what others have said, is just a good story.

And if we want to talk numbers, I know the cosplayers archive ( http://www.cosp.jp/ ) lists about 66,000 photos of Frontier cosplayers spread across roughly 12,000 members. That to me means there's a lot of people out there supporting Macross just through the characters. And I'm not saying they don't like the mecha but I feel that there's probably not that many people buying DX Chogokins or the other toys. A lot of times people can just like the robots without wanting to own one or admire it deeply.

Again, Macross was born in a mecha saturated market but manged to survive through other means.

ps most of the cosplayers dress up as Sheryl because she's not too girlish.

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The Musicalture was really good. And Macross 7 Trash and Macross Generation are okay.

Granted, they're not animated, but they are Macross.

I knew someone would mention those series..... ^_^

But, yeah.....too borrow a term that I have heard all too much in recent days...."niche within a niche"....

As far as I know Musicalture is not even available to view by anyone that did not make the original showdate(s?).....the only thing I can think of being more "Macross" niche than Musicalture would be an anatomically correct inflatable Ishtar doll! :lol:

Anyway, perhaps stage and print are the only mediums where the standard Macross formula can "successfully" deviate.....I would still argue that in terms of a full-blown animated series (like the one we are all waiting for more info on), the standard music....love triangle....transforming mecha....is going to remain the go-to core concepts for any writers that will be involved with it's development.....and that suits me fine....it is Macross afterall... :)

BTW...I have been on the hunt for the Argentine release of Macross Trash....so hearing that it is "OK" from another fan gives me some hope that I may like it.....

Edited by jvmacross
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Well it's not really a matter of "care" since it's more a part of the branding these days. As the one female fan the Speaker Podcast interviewed (the one who said Ranka is TOO GIRLISH), she thought the mecha were there for world building. She clearly liked Macross but didn't care about the robots. I'm not really bothered with the robots being window dressing for as what others have said, is just a good story.

And if we want to talk numbers, I know the cosplayers archive ( http://www.cosp.jp/ ) lists about 66,000 photos of Frontier cosplayers spread across roughly 12,000 members. That to me means there's a lot of people out there supporting Macross just through the characters. And I'm not saying they don't like the mecha but I feel that there's probably not that many people buying DX Chogokins or the other toys. A lot of times people can just like the robots without wanting to own one or admire it deeply.

Again, Macross was born in a mecha saturated market but manged to survive through other means.

ps most of the cosplayers dress up as Sheryl because she's not too girlish.

I probably should have said "...would want a Macross series"....as a Macross superfan, I'd probably "like" or "care" for anything Macross! :rolleyes: ....but not sure if the casual fan would be so forgiving?

I have no knowledge about cosplayers or cosplaying....but the only thing I can think of for cosplayers' choices in what to cosplay may have something to do with the ease/cost in cosplaying a character versus designing and building a battroid costume.....dunno ;)

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You know what will be really funny? To find out just how far off base we all are in our expectations (more or less). I have things I'd like to see in this, but what I really want more than anything, is simply quality. They put great characters into a great story and have bonuses of mecha action in it, I'm good as fresh gravy.

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Japanese manners and traditions are really firm they don´t stick with "the old" it´s imperative for them to create, it's well known they always pursue innovation in everything to bring health and fortune, that´s their belief and their way of life you can see it in the development of Macross franchise releasings and their spectacular non Macross anime production , that's why I think a reboot is unlikely to occur and I think you may see Kawamori as one of the greatest representatives of japanese idiosyncracy...

Edited by VALKYRIE ACE PILOT
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Japanese manners and traditions are really firm they don´t stick with "the old" it´s imperative for them to create, it's well known they always pursue innovation in everything to bring health and fortune, that´s their belief and their way of life you can see it in the development of Macross franchise releasings and their spectacular non Macross anime production , that's why I think a reboot is unlikely to occur and I think you may see Kawamori as one of the greatest representatives of japanese idiosyncracy...

How is Macross the First explained then?

Is it not a manga reboot of SDFM?

A modernized, adaptation of a story that has become dated in its presentation of 90's life ( an 80's speculation of what 16 years in the future would be like).

Then there is "Bubblegum Crisis 2040", "Sol Bianca: The Legacy", and the recently announced "MS Gundam: The Origin", all essentially, reboots of existing stories, updated and modernized for the contemporary market.

Despite the cultural mandate, even Japan is not immune to reboots and hasn't been for some time now. I suspect that is one of Kawamori's motivations by his insistance that all Macross productions are mere theatrical presentations of historical events, like the World War II TV shows or movies. Stories with dramatic license which allow for some retcons and reboots in the Universe. A position I fully support and appreciate,

My only disappointment has been with his determination to put DRYL as a movie within the universe, instead of a stand alone war movie about the Great Space War. In light of his current position, it never had to be relegated to what I would consider a second class status.

Edited by Zinjo
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Honestly, how many Macross fans would actually care for a Macross series with absolutely no transforming fighters?

Personally, i wouldn't. The same as I wouldn't watch Transformers just for the love story. I have only watched SDF, Frontier and Zero so far and the main love story seems to be the same old triangle.

Again, Macross was born in a mecha saturated market but manged to survive through other means.

I got into Macross because of the Bandai DX line. There is a lot of merchandise out there of the "transformable vehicle robot" style however the Macross one really made an impression on me.

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Japanese manners and traditions are really firm they don´t stick with "the old" it´s imperative for them to create, it's well known they always pursue innovation in everything to bring health and fortune, that´s their belief and their way of life...

:wacko:

Where did you hear that...? It's pretty demonstrably untrue...

Edited by Gubaba
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So finding 'The First' with translations is tricky past the second chapter. Does it change much of the story for SDFM? I mean I know some details here and there are diferent; i remember early on Hikaru taking Minmei to the 'miss Macross' stage when they're attacked for example, but is there anything that could really change the continuity of the following shows?

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Yes, you never did question Macross II's "Macross" standing....nor did I ever say you were somehow diminishing it's status as a true Macross show.....

What I was pointing out was your assertion that a Macross show does not need to be "this or that".....when it actually does need to be "Macross-like" (regardless if it is ultimately a "good" or "bad" show, we expect certain things from a Macross show, which have been brought up before).....why else would you need to point out the fact that the Metal Siren is "Gundam-like", which by default means "un-Macross-like"....or as you pointed out that it seemed as it did not belong "in the same universe"......that universe being, assumingly, the "Macross Universe". :)

Honestly, how many Macross fans would actually care for a Macross series with absolutely no transforming fighters?

I think you'd be surprised how far from "Macross" a sequel could go while still remaining "Macross" (whatever that actually means). Both Macross Plus and Macross 7 were about as far from what was SDF Macross/DYRL? as most could imagine at the time and yet they were both still unmistakably Macross. That's really one of the things I'm advocating the most; a departure from the norm, perhaps to an extent none of us have considered. And yes, perhaps even without Valkyries it can work if it's done right. If Wolverine can do 7 movies without a single piece of yellow spandex in sight, anything is possible :)

To go with the Marvel analogy (since apparnetly genre-film analogies work well here on mW, lol), the studio is talking all kinds of ways to present characters and tell stories. The new Captain America movie is supposedly a departure from the super hero norm, using the tone of a political thriller to tell it's story. There's talk that Ant-Man or Guardians of the Galaxy are more comedies than super hero films. And Kevin Feige has said Doctor Strange would have to be done like some surrealist Kubrick-esque film in order to work as a movie. There's no reason not to take these kind of chances with something like Macross. Macross Plus and Macross 7 did that. Now I feel one succeeded while the other failed, but I'd much rather watch an interesting failure than uninspired mediocrity. And I beleive that redefining what Macross is (or can be) is key to injecting more quality into it.

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I think you'd be surprised how far from "Macross" a sequel could go while still remaining "Macross" (whatever that actually means). Both Macross Plus and Macross 7 were about as far from what was SDF Macross/DYRL? as most could imagine at the time and yet they were both still unmistakably Macross. That's really one of the things I'm advocating the most; a departure from the norm, perhaps to an extent none of us have considered. And yes, perhaps even without Valkyries it can work if it's done right. If Wolverine can do 7 movies without a single piece of yellow spandex in sight, anything is possible :)

To go with the Marvel analogy (since apparnetly genre-film analogies work well here on mW, lol), the studio is talking all kinds of ways to present characters and tell stories. The new Captain America movie is supposedly a departure from the super hero norm, using the tone of a political thriller to tell it's story. There's talk that Ant-Man or Guardians of the Galaxy are more comedies than super hero films. And Kevin Feige has said Doctor Strange would have to be done like some surrealist Kubrick-esque film in order to work as a movie. There's no reason not to take these kind of chances with something like Macross. Macross Plus and Macross 7 did that. Now I feel one succeeded while the other failed, but I'd much rather watch an interesting failure than uninspired mediocrity. And I beleive that redefining what Macross is (or can be) is key to injecting more quality into it.

Macross Plus and Macross 7 both contain what every other Macross animated show has as it's 3 main characteristics......transforming fighters.....music.....love triangle.........'nuff said.....

This Macross formula has more or less worked for the last 30 years....and no sponsor, assumingly Bandai, is going to risk a significant investment by signing onto a Macross project that will deviate from what has made this franchise a proven money-maker for decades......

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I think you'd be surprised how far from "Macross" a sequel could go while still remaining "Macross" (whatever that actually means). Both Macross Plus and Macross 7 were about as far from what was SDF Macross/DYRL? as most could imagine at the time and yet they were both still unmistakably Macross. That's really one of the things I'm advocating the most; a departure from the norm, perhaps to an extent none of us have considered. And yes, perhaps even without Valkyries it can work if it's done right. If Wolverine can do 7 movies without a single piece of yellow spandex in sight, anything is possible :)

To go with the Marvel analogy (since apparnetly genre-film analogies work well here on mW, lol), the studio is talking all kinds of ways to present characters and tell stories. The new Captain America movie is supposedly a departure from the super hero norm, using the tone of a political thriller to tell it's story. There's talk that Ant-Man or Guardians of the Galaxy are more comedies than super hero films. And Kevin Feige has said Doctor Strange would have to be done like some surrealist Kubrick-esque film in order to work as a movie. There's no reason not to take these kind of chances with something like Macross. Macross Plus and Macross 7 did that. Now I feel one succeeded while the other failed, but I'd much rather watch an interesting failure than uninspired mediocrity. And I beleive that redefining what Macross is (or can be) is key to injecting more quality into it.

Totally with you there Marchamatic!

Macross was created with a vast universe of nearly endless possibilities. Why not a political drama, or a horror story in the Macross environment? We've had the bubblegum J-Pop series in M7 and the Top gun emulated Macross Plus, why not explore other genres and expand the scope of the property?

Granted it is unlikely a TV series would get an experimental genre story like we are advocating, those stories are invariably relegated to OVA's and Manga.

Edited by Zinjo
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How is Macross the First explained then?

Is it not a manga reboot of SDFM?

A modernized, adaptation of a story that has become dated in its presentation of 90's life ( an 80's speculation of what 16 years in the future would be like).

Then there is "Bubblegum Crisis 2040", "Sol Bianca: The Legacy", and the recently announced "MS Gundam: The Origin", all essentially, reboots of existing stories, updated and modernized for the contemporary market.

Despite the cultural mandate, even Japan is not immune to reboots and hasn't been for some time now. I suspect that is one of Kawamori's motivations by his insistance that all Macross productions are mere theatrical presentations of historical events, like the World War II TV shows or movies. Stories with dramatic license which allow for some retcons and reboots in the Universe. A position I fully support and appreciate,

My only disappointment has been with his determination to put DRYL as a movie within the universe, instead of a stand alone war movie about the Great Space War. In light of his current position, it never had to be relegated to what I would consider a second class status.

I think the issue of Macross the first happend only because they wanted to satisfy nostalgic fans in Japan. There is nostalgia even for Japanese people, unlike Manga, a TV show may be different for japanese producers minds, since TV has more audience is here where innovation commandment happens, just imagine to tell Kawamori. "Hey man you have to re-issue your old VF-1 design" instead of telling him "Hey man we want you to create a brand new design for the next Macross TV show so, this time he may take The F-22 raptor as model for the Valk instead of the old F-14 Tomcat...My bet is for a brand new series....

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Honestly, how many Macross fans would actually care for a Macross series with absolutely no transforming fighters?

Transforming fighter jets are a core element of what makes Macross, "Macross". Without them, It'll be like a Gundam anime without any mobile suits.

That said, I would like to see Kawamori involved in an anime series that's not Macross, where he is free to draw up dozens of fighter jets and not be limited by the need for a transformation gimmick.

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