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Rewatching 7...Still hate Chie Kajiura's singing.


Raptor
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(Long time no posts. I am binging on Macross again, and finally got around to watching the whole original series.)

So, am watching 7 for the first time in... a long time... and I still hate Chie Kajiura's singing. Except now I know why... at the time she had a weak voice and amateurish singing skills at best, and when compared to Yoshiki Fukuyama's EPIC POWERS OF ROCK (his songs are still good 18 years later... that can be said about very few fictional bands), it seems even worse, especially when she's singing a capella...and even more so when you consider how good Mari Ijima (at least for a 17 year-old 80's Idol) and the Frontier girls were.

Speaking of which, I came with striking distance of May'n a few years ago when I snuck backstage at the World Cosplay Summit (long story). YOU MAD?

(hehehe)

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(Long time no posts. I am binging on Macross again, and finally got around to watching the whole original series.)

So, am watching 7 for the first time in... a long time... and I still hate Chie Kajiura's singing. Except now I know why... at the time she had a weak voice and amateurish singing skills at best, and when compared to Yoshiki Fukuyama's EPIC POWERS OF ROCK (his songs are still good 18 years later... that can be said about very few fictional bands), it seems even worse, especially when she's singing a capella...and even more so when you consider how good Mari Ijima (at least for a 17 year-old 80's Idol) and the Frontier girls were.

Yes, because ANYONE can pull off a Kate Bush cover and make it sound good. Let's hear YOUR album, Raptor. Oh, you don't have one...? Funny, that.

Speaking of which, I came with striking distance of May'n a few years ago when I snuck backstage at the World Cosplay Summit (long story). YOU MAD?

(hehehe)

No, because I've talked to Yoshiki Fukuyama, Chie Kajiura, Mari Iijima, and Tomo Sakurai. And Aya Endo and I made eye contact across a crowded room. R *U* MAD? (I didn't think so.)

Edited by Gubaba
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Who is Aya Endo?...

I was just kidding about the "you mad" thing.

I'm sure she's a better singer by now, and I understand why they chose to use singing voices in 7 and F despite Canna and Sakurai being competent singers, but I think she was a terrible choice for FB's uptempo rock music.

At most she's a convincing as 14 year-old singer who sounds reasonably close to her singing voice. But by comparison, Basara's voices are so seamless that at first I had no clue it was two differnent people. Canna's singing is passable and sounds similar but lacks the power. Sakurai is also a good singer but more pop than rock.

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OK, I'll keep Gubaba's attention, you guys get Raptor out of here, quickly. HURRY, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH LONGER I CAN HOLD HIMAARRGHHhhhhhh.. *

post-9325-0-78052000-1390188854.jpg

(Long time no posts. I am binging on Macross again, and finally got around to watching the whole original series.)

So, am watching 7 for the first time in... a long time... and I still hate Chie Kajiura's singing. Except now I know why... at the time she had a weak voice and amateurish singing skills at best, and when compared to Yoshiki Fukuyama's EPIC POWERS OF ROCK (his songs are still good 18 years later... that can be said about very few fictional bands), it seems even worse, especially when she's singing a capella...and even more so when you consider how good Mari Ijima (at least for a 17 year-old 80's Idol) and the Frontier girls were.

Musical tastes are always going to be subjective, although I think its a little disingenuous to compare the various Macross divas based on their original output, if only due to the fact that in many cases it was all written for them, down the the way the songs were sung. Personally, I prefer to look at each artists overall output, especially post-Macross (when, for example, they might not have a musical genius like Yoko Kanno composing all their songs any more).

In Chie's case,IMO its the very thing you don't seem to like - the whispy, ethereal nature of her voice, plus the funky 60's/70's infused musical stylings that she creates - that makes her stand out and have greater longevity than many other anime singers. Not to mention the fact that she can still pull the voice off and experiments more and more with English songs and Macross covers these days as well.

Her voice was never all that strong to begin with and does tend to get drowned out in amongst multiple electric guitars although in the case of the rare 'duets' in M7 this is more because the voices were recorded separately and combined in post rather than issues with her voice, but when done properly (ie, RE:Fire) in a studio setting, I think she holds her own with Fukuyama fairly well.

As far as Macross output is concerned though, Chie does, without a doubt, the greatest cover of DYRL I have ever heard. Similarly, her version of Diamond Crevasce is excellent and her take on some of Macross Plus' tracks are outstanding with some really subtle mixing. She is the Macross cover queen imo ... with Sakurai Tomo coming in second because she does some damn fine Minmei covers, and Megumi in third for her versions of DYRL and Angel Paints (although unlike Chie, AFAIK Megumi didnt actually remix these herself) and may'n in 4th for her Totsugeki Love Heart duet with Fukuyama.

Yeah but Tomo is much hotter than Chie.

Well... to each their own and all that, but even back in the day I didnt think that Tomo's lemon angel antics...

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....even came close to Chie.

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Edited by Tochiro
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Ok, all criticism of her singing aside, I don't think she was a good match for the character or the show.

In terms of Chiba Song Units, she's would be in the hundreds while Fukuyama would be in the hundreds of thousands (...don't take this to seriously).

I understand that she wasn't supposed to be a powerful a singer as Basara (at least initially), but I don't see how "whispy and etheral" is a good match for a show about the power of rock music.

I also admit I haven't listened to any of her covers, but from what I can tell she initially regretted doing Macross 7 but eventually learned to....well, at least try to make a living with it.

Is it just me or does anyone wish they would remake Macross 7 with better directing, writing, and animation? And about half the length. I mean, the show had so much potential and a few great moments, but even as I fan I realize that it was an objectively bad show.

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In terms of Chiba Song Units, she's would be in the hundreds while Fukuyama would be in the hundreds of thousands (...don't take this to seriously).

Technically, how much Chiba Songs someone has comes down to the 'conduit' they have with the sub-universe - and this falls in the realm of the writers (in the sense of "because they said it's so"), and not the talent per se.

That said, I think the contrast between the two singers was a good match. After all, if everyone sounds the same, what's the point?

Edited by sketchley
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waiiiiiit....you dont know who Aya Endo is?

Pure_mixture_img_277_301.jpg

I find Chie super cute and fun! Honestly, at first I really wasn't too keen on her stuff. Then I started listening to her regular stuff like Loophole and I reallllllllllllllly enjoyed it. Went back watched 7 again, and loved her 100x times more. I think it was fitting for the character. I'm just sad I wont get to see her "Mylene Night" before I move over.

Also I was 2 feet from May'n crotch and made her pancakes...just sayin.

unnamed.jpg

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Didn't feel like Googling it.

And I was closer :)

(not that it matters... I just needed an excuse to mention it in the first place)

For the record, I think the only (age and style appropriate for the character) female Japanese vocalist who comes even close to Fukuyama levels of epicness is the girl from Ikimonogakari, although she's not nearly old enough to have been in Macross 7.

On another note, I thought Mari Ijima won the role (or at least auditioned) when she was still 16ish?

Edited by Raptor
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If we are playing this way, then no one is close to Fukuyama, after all he saved the Universe and unborn gay space whales from extinction. In regards to careers after the shows, Chie and Fukuyama lead for live shows, followed by May'n and last Mari and Negumi.

Points were deducted for Megumi because she's quitting, and points were deducted from Mari because she posts a lot about it's annoying to continue to have to sing Macross songs.

Not sure if Endo does to many concerts, but her vocal range is so vast I think she's on a whole different level

of singer.

May'n is making her own stuff and moving on, so points for breaking away from the Sheryl character.

All I know is MW2014 needs Fukuyama and Chie.

Get on it guys!

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It is somewhat pleasing - but also eerily alarming - to see the pendulum of Macross World has swung far from the old unbridled hate threads for Macross 7 such that even just sardonically criticizing one vocal performer in the show is met with considerable resistance on the forum. That being said, I'd have to agree with Raptor criticizing Chie Kajiura. If one divorces from the animation and "Macross" label, Chie Kajiura singing was not anything I'd want to celebrate. On the show's soundtrack she sounded like the Japanese equivalent of an American Idol mid-level contestant, or Avril Lavinge trying desperately to convince you she's awesome. There is some talent and ability, but not of a level I'd categorize as memorable. In her defense, I will say that she wasn't exactly a bad marriage for the bubblegum pop soundtrack, which I also didn't find all that memorable either.

Where I'd disagree is a large disparity between Chie Kajiura and Megumi Nakajima. While the Frontier gal might be better, I wouldn't place her far from the former. At least if all we're talking about is technical proficiency, trying to put aside the music itself. IMO, Mari IIjima and May'n have chops above Kajiura and Nakajima. But again, the vocal ability of the SDF Macross and Macross Frontier idols probably means more to me simply because the productions and music are much more engaging.

I'd also debate that Kajiura wasn't a good match for Mylene as a character or for the show. I felt her amateur voice was a good match for the band she was in, the age she was at and the character arc she was written. Mylene was kinda a backup sort of band member and I think the Macross 7 series was trying to write her as growing into adulthood somewhat awkwardly without any grace or consistency. The vocal performance reflects those themes, even if the result doesn't make for the most accomplished or entertaining result from the perspective of the audience watching Macross 7.

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Most of these opinions in this thread are definitely the results of various musical tastes.

As far as Megumi Nakajima and May'n are concerned, I personally think that Megumi us the better singer. To me, May'n sounds a bit too nasally and it always sounds to me that she's struggling to hit the high notes.

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I'll be honest, May'n sounds like Britney Spears singing in Japanese.

I know I'm not alone, because to non-Macross fans heard the song in my playlist

And asked why I was playing Foriegn Japanese songs.

I'm a child of the late 80's, so I'm always going to side with Rock/Metal of M7 over

The POP music of Frontier. I can even relate to M+ which soundtrack is deeply early 90's

Pop/electronica.

Also, we should stop comparing Fukuyama to Chie, listen to one if her solog songs.

She holds her own, and has plenty of vocal range.

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Is it just me or does anyone wish they would remake Macross 7 with better directing, writing, and animation? And about half the length. I mean, the show had so much potential and a few great moments, but even as I fan I realize that it was an objectively bad show.

No.

It was and is awesome.

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I'll be honest, May'n sounds like Britney Spears singing in Japanese.

I know I'm not alone, because to non-Macross fans heard the song in my playlist

And asked why I was playing Foriegn Japanese songs.

I'm a child of the late 80's, so I'm always going to side with Rock/Metal of M7 over

The POP music of Frontier. I can even relate to M+ which soundtrack is deeply early 90's

Pop/electronica.

Also, we should stop comparing Fukuyama to Chie, listen to one if her solog songs.

She holds her own, and has plenty of vocal range.

To me she sounds like she's always trying to sing too low. I have yet to hear anything resembling a significant range.

May'n is definitely a pop star but I think the technical skill and power is there.

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Ok, I'll clarify:

I like her voice, as in how it sounds. I cannot really judge her skill or range on a technical level at all. But I know I just plain like the sound.

Similarly, there are artists that are techically among the best there are, with incredible range and skill---that I just plain despise how their voice sounds.

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Ok, all criticism of her singing aside, I don't think she was a good match for the character or the show

Again, this is subjective, but I for one disagree. It was fairly obvious that both Basara and Mylene's singing voices were being done by artists with more range, experience, and sense of identity than either character in the show would have at their respective ages. I just took the music for what it was - AWESOME - and rolled with it.

I also admit I haven't listened to any of her covers, but from what I can tell she initially regretted doing Macross 7 but eventually learned to....well, at least try to make a living with it.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from, but if its her extended absence from the music scene, that was because she had a daughter and only came back to music a few years ago because she her child was in school and old enough for Chie to have more free time again. If you are speaking to a more overarching feeling of regret about being pigeon-holed/typecast as an anime singer, her recent activities (ie, Mylene events, Macross covers, some merchandise, etc) would indicate that any such regret is something she has long since come to terms with.

Eugh. Ikimonogakari and Fire Bomber are like whole worlds apart. I think Chie gives FB a level of class you don't get with teeny boppers like Ikimonogakari.

Exactly! When M7 came out I was primarily listening to Nyanko Club and Noriko Sakai - Chie's decidedly non-poppy vocal style was a a blast of fresh air compared to other 'regular' Jpop at the time IMO.

I thought she really complimented Fukuyama well.

It is somewhat pleasing - but also eerily alarming - to see the pendulum of Macross World has swung far from the old unbridled hate threads for Macross 7 such that even just sardonically criticizing one vocal performer in the show is met with considerable resistance on the forum.

(cut)

...I'd also debate that Kajiura wasn't a good match for Mylene as a character or for the show. I felt her amateur voice was a good match for the band she was in, the age she was at and the character arc she was written. Mylene was kinda a backup sort of band member and I think the Macross 7 series was trying to write her as growing into adulthood somewhat awkwardly without any grace or consistency. The vocal performance reflects those themes, even if the result doesn't make for the most accomplished or entertaining result from the perspective of the audience watching Macross 7.

I'm really glad I wasnt hanging out on the MW boards back in those days. Im my experience, in the pre-internet mid-90's Austalia, when we were importing the VHS volumes and (unknowlingly) buying the SM bootleg versions of the soundtracks, the handful of Macross fans I knew didnt hate on the series at all. Everyone admitted that it was aimed at a younger audience, but enjoyed the music and character designs and Max scenes so much that we didnt mind.

Fast forward and, after 12 years in Japan, I have only met fans that love them some M7. Maybe the ones that dont like it simply dont watch it or else hide out in 2chan, I can't say. The series gets a lot of love here though,as does Chie. Did the audience find her singing accomplished or entertaining? Since her mere appearance on stage, 20 years on, can cause 13,000 fans to pull out pink glow sticks in anticipation, I'd hazard a guess and say YES.

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No.

It was and is awesome.

As are you Sir. As are you (brofist). Edited by Tochiro
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Again, this is subjective, but I for one disagree. It was fairly obvious that both Basara and Mylene's singing voices were being done by artists with more range, experience, and sense of identity than either character in the show would have at their respective ages. I just took the music for what it was - AWESOME - and rolled with it.

I'm not sure where you are getting this from, but if its her extended absence from the music scene, that was because she had a daughter and only came back to music a few years ago because she her child was in school and old enough for Chie to have more free time again. If you are speaking to a more overarching feeling of regret about being pigeon-holed/typecast as an anime singer, her recent activities (ie, Mylene events, Macross covers, some merchandise, etc) would indicate that any such regret is something she has long since come to terms with.

Exactly! When M7 came out I was primarily listening to Nyanko Club and Noriko Sakai - Chie's decidedly non-poppy vocal style was a a blast of fresh air compared to other 'regular' Jpop at the time IMO.

I thought she really complimented Fukuyama well.

I'm really glad I wasnt hanging out on the MW boards back in those days. Im my experience, in the pre-internet mid-90's Austalia, when we were importing the VHS volumes and (unknowlingly) buying the SM bootleg versions of the soundtracks, the handful of Macross fans I knew didnt hate on the series at all. Everyone admitted that it was aimed at a younger audience, but enjoyed the music and character designs and Max scenes so much that we didnt mind.

Fast forward and, after 12 years in Japan, I have only met fans that love them some M7. Maybe the ones that dont like it simply dont watch it or else hide out in 2chan, I can't say. The series gets a lot of love here though,as does Chie. Did the audience find her singing accomplished or entertaining? Since her mere appearance on stage, 20 years on, can cause 13,000 fans to pull out pink glow sticks in anticipation, I'd hazard a guess and say YES.

attachicon.gifpink.jpg

As are you Sir. As are you (brofist).

Yeah, but they do that for AKB48 and Vocaloids too, and those are only "music" in the loosest definition.

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