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Macross Frontier Movies BD Boxset WITH ENGLISH SUBS!


Tochiro
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Are those the ones used by Kiseki...? I.E. "My engine blocks are angry at me"...?

I just checked the Dong Seng International subtitles and Hikaru DID NOT say "My engine blocks are angry at me".

INSTEAD, the subtitles Hikaru said "We fell into the engine block." So I guess that Dong Seng is not the "Kiseki" that you mentioned.

The Dong Seng (a Taiwan Company) subtitles probably is the official english subtitles for DYRL. I watched the VCD again and IMO the subtitles were spot on.

I'll post a pic of their official website back in the day. (If I can find it my files)

Edit: I know this is OT but I mentioned this in passing a while back (post #95 of this thread)

Edited by Bub
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$160 for a boxset? And of a film which isnt held in much high regard by some? Are these prices normal for Macross world or do they reflect prices in Japan in general?

For two movies and a bonus disk and 300 pages worth of printed material, its actually quite reasonable by Japanese standards.

For comparison, the recommended retail price of SDFM TV and Orguss was close to $500 each.

As for whether or not the movies are held in high regard, thats really a matter of personal taste. Anecdotally, The Wings of Farewell in particular did quite well theatrically and is a favourite among Japanese Macross fans.

Edited by Tochiro
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For two movies and a bonus disk and 300 pages worth of printed material, its actually quite reasonable by Japanese standards.

For comparison, the recommended retail price of SDFM TV and Orguss was close to $500 each.

As for whether or not the movies are held in high regard, thats really a matter of personal taste. Anecdotally, The Wings of Farewell in particular did quite well theatrically and is a favourite among Japanese Macross fans.

I think I need to teach my brain to stop being in Western European mode when judging Japanese priced items :) Edited by megaprime
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i was one of those who was quite disappointed with the Macross Plus Blu-Ray's initial pricing, considering what they were giving.
And even then I thought this bundle was a good deal (2 movies with SUBS! and other goodies), even though I hated the 1st movie. The 2nd movie more than made up for it though, and felt like a more decent ending than the series'.

Edited by SaitouSad
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  • 2 weeks later...

A blu-ray with bonus dics costs around $30 normally in the US not on sale (MSRP is more like $40). A 200 page movie art book might go for around $30. Let's say a 100 page book would go for around $20. We just broke the $100 mark at this point and we are not even factoring in special packaging which normally comands a more premium price, I would also guess a relatively lower production number and a lower expection on sales volume than a normal US released movie and I can see how we arrive at the $160 range.

To be fair it does seem pricey compared to the DYRL blu-ray which was around $130-$140 range. But, I am thinking this is 2 full length feature movies with extras as opposed to 1 full length feature with extras, so the extra $20 in price doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

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A blu-ray with bonus dics costs around $30 normally in the US not on sale (MSRP is more like $40). A 200 page movie art book might go for around $30. Let's say a 100 page book would go for around $20. We just broke the $100 mark at this point and we are not even factoring in special packaging which normally comands a more premium price, I would also guess a relatively lower production number and a lower expection on sales volume than a normal US released movie and I can see how we arrive at the $160 range.

To be fair it does seem pricey compared to the DYRL blu-ray which was around $130-$140 range. But, I am thinking this is 2 full length feature movies with extras as opposed to 1 full length feature with extras, so the extra $20 in price doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

To be fair, blu-rays in Japan cost a lot more to begin with.

It's also the indirect reason some publishers do not release a US copy of their anime series anymore (see Gurren Lagann).

Too many japanese consumers were reverse importing the much cheaper US version of their anime series, eating into the local sales.

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The whole reverse importing thing is more often than not an excuse. With the current state of the US anime market it is often just not financially viable to release physical boxsets of series (or video games for that matter!) outside of Japan. The ROI is often in the negative or else not enough to make it worthwhile.

Latest details on boxset extras!!!!

http://www.macrossworld.com/6256/macross-frontier-bd-extras-revealed/

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Well I am more than excited for this.

Wow my feelings are so split right now. First of all I'm extremely happy these films get subbed releases. This is sheer awesomeness. For one this is first time Macross title has got new official subs in a loooooong time (excluding Plus awfulness, but that doesn't really count because Plus isn't "new" title to get English release). Second the films were great so I don't mind buying them per se. Third this might imply more subbed releases in future.

On the other hand I feel considerable irritation for them not doing subbed releases in the first place. Now I have to buy film BDs again and the horrid japanese prices aren't exactly cheap.

Considering I just shelved 250 euros on the tv series BD box + shipping I'm not exactly looking forward to fulfilling my fan "obligations" all over again. Especially since there's no quality guarantee for the subs present. They might be just as bad as those for Macross Plus film. <_<

Tochiro, weren't those film subs new? They significantly differ from ones I remember seeing on DVD back in the day. "Bromance" wtf.

I know exactly how you feel. I already bought Sayonara no Tsubasa, but here I am going to buy it again just for the subs. Oh well, it could be worse I guess.

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...and feeling mildly perturbed at the same time...

why is that?

Well, I´ve just found this second video from Umaibo. As far as I understand it is a promotional video, again, but not sure if it adds information as used to happens with some sponsors in a promotional duty (even with funny characterization).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOvdCsr0lsk&feature=player_embedded

BR.

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Amazon JP is your best bet although you may need to use a 3rd party proxy since they wont ship it overseas.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%90%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%82%A4%E3%83%8A%E3%83%A0%E3%82%B3%E3%82%B2%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E3%82%B9-%E5%8A%87%E5%A0%B4%E7%89%88%E3%83%9E%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B9F-30th-d%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BFb-BOX/dp/B00HHLI1PG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395031218&sr=8-1&keywords=%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A5%E3%83%87%E3%82%A3%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BFbox

CD Japan is listing it as out of print, but may get it back in stock later.

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/BLJS-93014

Play Asia has it listed at a ridiculous price. You might want to try emailing them and confirming it.

http://www.play-asia.com/gekijouban-macross-f-30th-d-shudisuta-b-box-blu-ray-hybrid-disc-paOS-13-49-jp-70-7jo1.html

The 'official' pre-order cut-off was March 15 (ie, 2 days ago) which is probably why many sites have suddenly listed it as out of stock or have started charging bizarre prices. I don't think its THAT limited, so if you havent secured one already, I doubt they will be THAT difficult to get once the box is released in May.

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Unfortunately, it's the only way you'll be getting legal Macross products for the foreseeable future...

Well, by the sounds of it I dont think I will be getting anything at all despite my good will. From what I can read the bluray will not play in my British PS3 due to region differences?

A blu-ray with bonus dics costs around $30 normally in the US not on sale (MSRP is more like $40). A 200 page movie art book might go for around $30. Let's say a 100 page book would go for around $20. We just broke the $100 mark at this point and we are not even factoring in special packaging which normally comands a more premium price, I would also guess a relatively lower production number and a lower expection on sales volume than a normal US released movie and I can see how we arrive at the $160 range.

To be fair it does seem pricey compared to the DYRL blu-ray which was around $130-$140 range. But, I am thinking this is 2 full length feature movies with extras as opposed to 1 full length feature with extras, so the extra $20 in price doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

$160 =£100 In UK that is expensive for 2 books and 2 films even by Star Wars standards.
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Megaprime: Every Macross Blu-Ray to date has been region-free. This should not be an exception.

"Even by Star Wars standards" --> Is that the most expensive standard you can think of, then welcome to ultra niche-market consumption and the appropriate pricing strategies for such. In my opinion these prices are reasonable by Japanese animation disc standards.

For more detail, I suggest you listen to the most recent Macross SpeakerPODcast where we actually discuss in depth and at length why there is such a discrepancy.

I don't mind people who speak their mind about prices, but I do ask that they try to at least understand why those prices are like that in the first place.

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Megaprime: Every Macross Blu-Ray to date has been region-free. This should not be an exception.

Thank you for clarifying that. Puts my mind at rest and I can get one without worrying now. :)

"Even by Star Wars standards" --> Is that the most expensive standard you can think of, then welcome to ultra niche-market consumption and the appropriate pricing strategies for such. In my opinion these prices are reasonable by Japanese animation disc standards.

For more detail, I suggest you listen to the most recent Macross SpeakerPODcast where we actually discuss in depth and at length why there is such a discrepancy.

I don't mind people who speak their mind about prices, but I do ask that they try to at least understand why those prices are like that in the first place.

I listen to your podcasts and do enjoy them because I think that you make some very valid points there. :)

Dont get me wrong, I was not trying to come accross as someone who moans about high prices all the time. After all £100 for a BD boxset is not much to someone who pays £150+ on a Valk toy (or £300+ on a Star Wars toy for that matter).

Despite all this the fact remains that these products are expensive. The fact that there are some Japanese(?) companies (like PlayAsia) who try to take advantage of this niche market by marking up prices sky high doesnt help either. From what I have seen Japanese prices in general for this market seem to be expensive (in comparison to the US-UK at least). What worries me is that if this set costs £100 how much are they going to charge for a TV series (like Macross Frontier for example) which is much longer (if they decided to bring one out with English subs that is)?

These super niche markets seem to be in a catch 22 situation. I.e. the prices are high because it is super niche and on the other hand it remains super niche because of the high prices which do not allow for mass market penetration. If Japanese companies in this field want to increase market share then they would need to release products initially at low costs (and absorb the loss to start with) and increase the customer base.

Rather than releasing a big boxset like this they could have instead released the films separately. That way the cost for the individual films would have been lower and allowed more people to buy them.

I'm not sure if the high Macross product prices can be blamed entirely on the fact that it is a niche market. The companies invloved, their pricing strategies, their market penetration strategies and their willingness to open to new markets are just as much or even more to blame (especially since their actions are the ones that actually leave Macross stuck in the niche market).

PS: Apologies if unintentionally :) I have gone off topic

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Play-Asia is based in Hong Kong, not Japan. HobbyLinkJapan and Ami-Ami are based in Japan. In my experience, they tend not to jack prices up. I would also suggest Amazon.jp for BDs and CDs, but since this particular item (Movie box set) is classified as a "game", they won't ship abroad.

How much will they charge for the series? It's already out (no subs, though), and I think it's like 25,000 yen or something.

They already DID release the films separately. I even bought (the good) one, which is why I was not actually going to get this release. I changed my mind just because I'm interested in the production notes and the storyboard comparisons, etc.

You can make millions of these BDs/DVDs and sell them at 100 yen (50pence?) each if you want, but they won't sell out and you'll be left with dead stock. There is not going to be any "mass market penetration" -- I hate to sound like a broken record, but anime is a niche market. When you have an ageing society that doesn't watch cartoons and you try to sell a cartoon about giant robots and little girls, you are marketing your product to a specific group of people.

Let me give you a very tasteful example. Do you like bondage movies? People getting tied up and whipped? I don't, but it is a market. You can try to lower the price, increase numbers and try to stimulate mass consumption of this particular product, but you can't change social consumption trends! You can't make money by giving people what they don't want. It's an extreme example, but the same dynamics are at work here. There is an anime stigma.

I realize that Wolverine in the 90s was an unknown character for the mainstream and yet now you have Hollywood movies being made with enormous budgets that millions of people worldwide watch. But therein lies the difference between Japanese society and Western society -- mainstream penetration is really rare, with subcultures remaining removed from the mass and developing on their own.

Maybe if Macross was given the opportunity to flourish in the West you would have cheaper BDs. Actually I'm fairly positive you would. But we all know who to blame for that, right? ;)

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Wow...I was going to make a comment here but Renato has pretty much summed up all my points perfectly.

No-one is kidding themselves here. Japanese anime IS expensive. That's a fact.

But the other fact is that anime is also a niche market, with Macross being a niche market within a niche market.

The entire business model is based upon what the limited number of fans of a particular niche in Japan are willing to pay to support the product/franchise. If it was priced completely out of their range then the product wouldn't sell (and yes, limited availability/print runs drives demand up further as well).

The unfortunate fact of the matter is that media content producers have doubled down on their respective niche markets. The content isnt meant for, nor will it be embraced by, a wider market domestically. As for countries outside of Japan the trend, in the US in particular, towards people not buying physical media, coupled with the anime crash of the mid-late 2000's has burned/scared off a lot of Japanese publishers. The local niche market is one they can rely on, so content and pricing is geared towards the domestic market.

For what its worth, the cost of Japanese media has actually DECREASED in the case of Macross. In the case of Frontier it has remained rather stable or else decreased.

Buying the (special editions) of the movies separately would have totaled  17640yen (7140+10500). Without Eng. subs.

Discounts would have knocked 1500yen or so off that, bringing it to - approx. the same price as the re-release.

The tv series was originally 6000-7000 yen per disc for 9 discs! Many fans paid this price for it (myself included).

the re-release is a mere 25,000yen. Quite a reduction!

TL;DR - items are priced for their markets. Markets are different. When we buy things from markets that are not meant for our own, theres no choice other than to play by their rules.

MORE IMPORTANTLY... thank you for listening to the podcast! Feel free to tell you friends and fellow fans about us!

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Not sure if this was discussed already but why do they(re:publishers) insist on still listing their products as "Software" when that portion of it are merely just a bonus part of the package(which they'll yank anyway after a certain amount of time) when it's really DVD/BRs.

That affects their o/s sales which for some reason they don't care about from their largest online retailers such as Amazon. I know CD Japan got hurt by that once with the first Frontier movie where they are restricted from selling software to overseas markets since it was listed as such. CDJ eventually said screw it and did it anyway probably because they saw that listing as making no sense.

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There is not going to be any "mass market penetration" -- I hate to sound like a broken record, but anime is a niche market. When you have an ageing society that doesn't watch cartoons and you try to sell a cartoon about giant robots and little girls, you are marketing your product to a specific group of people.

Maybe if Macross was given the opportunity to flourish in the West you would have cheaper BDs. Actually I'm fairly positive you would. But we all know who to blame for that, right? ;)

If we take Pixar's Up that is a cartoon about a little boy and an old man flying around the world in a house held up by balloons. :blink: It still didnt stop the film making millions upon millions and had millions of kids, teenagers, young adults and old peple glued to the screen. So in terms of content there isnt much difference there (apart from the fact that Japanese seem to strangely love including girls in thongs and naked in (some of) their cartoons). The argument of ageing population can be counteracted with the rise in "baby boomers" so there are more and more older people who have the time and money to dedicate to their childhood hobbies. I wouldnt dismiss the older people as "dont watch cartoons". You would be surprised how many grandparents sit there watching with their grandchildren the latter's favourite cartoons. And those grandparents have the money and need the ideas on what to get their grandkids ;) . The rise in popularity of Transformers and other films featuring robots would also have a positive indirect impact on this genre.

The west does have a secret love for Japanese anime (and anything Japanese for that matter). Films like Ponyo, The Borrowers, etc have been quite successful. I dont see why Macross wouldnt (providing the nudity was taken off :) of course). It is cute and has a love story so it appears to girls, and has transformable toys and fighting scenes so it appeals to boys. Look at Apple's strategy: get the youth on board and the rest follows. However Macross can appeal to all ages. In fact I bet there is a good mix of ages in this forum as well.

Hence why I believe that anime is a niche market because of choice. The difference in cultures that you mentioned has a lot to do with it. If someone makes a product with the specific view of it targeting just a niche market then that product certainly isnt going to become popular outside its target since it was never given a chance.

Dont get me wrong. I am not complaining. It is Kawamori's creation and he will do with it as he pleases. I just think that since Macross has created its own niche market in the West the producers should make a little bit more effort in recognising it. I'm off to transforming that VF 27 Lucifer that has just arrived. :D

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If we take Pixar's Up...

There are so many things wrong with this argument that anyone would need a post five times as long to address them all.

I'll content myself with asking, how niche is Pixar? Do they not have millions to spend on advertising? Did all the people who saw Up suddenly turn into lovers of all animation?

And of course you understand WHY Macross is not being marketed in the west, as do we all...

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There are so many things wrong with this argument that anyone would need a post five times as long to address them all.

I'll content myself with asking, how niche is Pixar? Do they not have millions to spend on advertising? Did all the people who saw Up suddenly turn into lovers of all animation?

And of course you understand WHY Macross is not being marketed in the west, as do we all...

I wasn't comparing the two companies. I was merely poitning out that the content of Macross (robots and little girls that Renato said) is not much different from the content of UP (old man, little boy, house with balloons). All people who saw Up may have not turned into lovers of animation however it shows that there are a lot of people still willing to watch cartoons despite of their age so the argument about ageing population does not hold much water. :)

I am well aware of the greedy and selfish reasons that prevent Macross from being marketed in the West although those legal claims are on shaky ground anyway (as it has been pointed out in several places). Despite this there are plenty of legal loopholes that can be easily exploited in order to recognise and satisfy the worldwide audience.

If producers want to know the extent of the worldwide audience of Macross they can easily find out through places like this forum and the various shops that sell merchandise. Granted that may not be 100% accurate but it would certainly give a very good idea in terms of numbers.

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You cannot just say "in terms of content..." and expect not to have any other factors play a role in the outcome, such as who made the film. Pixar/Disney has huge name value and if they say they will make a movie about an old guy with balloons, or a movie about a flying air conditioner that can predict the future, or heck, even watching paint dry... then people will go see it. The only animation works that have that kind of name value in Japan apart from Disney are Ghibli films. Growing in popularity recently are Mamoru Hosoda's works, and maybe Shinkai Makoto. Macross is so far down the list. Frontier was a huge success, but within the anime subculture.

If we are only talking about content, then what you suggest is that we take the approach of a show which everyone can enjoy, which has worked in the West. There you have to deal with the idiosyncrasies of Japanese society when dealing with pop culture. Like I said before, there is an anime stigma. Most people in the mainstream will not watch anime by virtue of it being anime. You can make it as attractive, interesting, family-friendly as you like. ESPECIALLY moe and robot shows. There is a barrier there that you cannot break through. Add to this the fact that the mainstream is much less accepting to change or innovation, because they have a different attitude to media consumption. Look at Japanese TV shows, movies, etc. They are so completely different to US ones. There is no Japanese "House of Cards" or "Game of Thrones". And even if there was, it would only be a minor hit in the grand scheme of things, or a huge hit within an isolated subculture.

That is why, for example, Pacific Rim failed at the box office here. And English-language news people were surprised, saying "What? We thought the Japanese would love it!" No, they don't. It is a subculture, and there is resistance from the mainstream.

That is why I believe my "bondage movie" analogy works much better than your "Up" analogy. Because the mainstream is repulsed by S&M, but there is a healthy subculture that is sustainable within its own confines. Same with robots and little girls. Shows with robots are childish, and shows with little girls are considered perverted. There is no pre-existing stigma against old men with balloons.

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If we are only talking about content, then what you suggest is that we take the approach of a show which everyone can enjoy, which has worked in the West. There you have to deal with the idiosyncrasies of Japanese society when dealing with pop culture. Like I said before, there is an anime stigma. Most people in the mainstream will not watch anime by virtue of it being anime.

I'm not talking about penetrating the Japanese market, I'm talking about the Western market. And I'm not talking about making movies for people to watch in the cinema but rather Macross tv series that get licensed to children tv stations. I remember shows like Dragonball Z, Yu gi oh, Pokemon, etc, etc had plenty of success amongst the young generations (and older ones as well).

That is why, for example, Pacific Rim failed at the box office here. And English-language news people were surprised, saying "What? We thought the Japanese would love it!" No, they don't. It is a subculture, and there is resistance from the mainstream.

That is why I believe my "bondage movie" analogy works much better than your "Up" analogy. Because the mainstream is repulsed by S&M, but there is a healthy subculture that is sustainable within its own confines. Same with robots and little girls. Shows with robots are childish, and shows with little girls are considered perverted. There is no pre-existing stigma against old men with balloons.

By using the bondage movie analogy you are straight away cutting out the under 16 audience and the Up analogy gives a chance to all people of all ages. If Macross is super nich then bondage is ultra niche. If shows with robots were childish then films like Transformers and many more would have never made it in the West. And if shows with little girls are considered perverted then most of the Disney movies with the princesses (or Hanna Montana, etc) wouldnt have made it either.

A lot of people may be repulsed by bondage but I dont say there are many out there who are repulsed by cartoons. To be fair anime has a lot more chances of being accepted by general public than bondage. Grandparents may not like anime but if grandkids like it they would go along to watch it (so there is an incentive). Whereas with bondage grandparents may not like it and the grandkids are not allowed (so no incentive there at all).

I think you are wrong about Pixar. People dont go to see their movies just for the sake of it but because they have created a reputation for releasing movies that are not only tasteful to the eye but also with a strong and meaningful storyline.

The fact that Western culture has an attraction to Japanese culture (finds it cute, etc) and the success of films like Transformers, Ponyo, The Borrowers etc create, in my opinion, a favourable environment for cartoons/anime like Macross.

I think ultimately it boils down to cultural differences and the willingness of the producers to make an effort. They can start by finding out to what extent the current international fanbase has extended. By collaborating closely with forums like this or retailers such as NY, HLJ, AmiAmi, etc they could even test the international market's demand for basic things such as English subtitled films, etc. (That way they are not breaking any Western licensing laws either). In today's internet age the possibilities of promoting the brand and releasing merchandise (without breaking any laws) are endless. I'm just surprised at how easily the producers are dismissing the worldwide fanbase, that's all. :)

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Megaprime... not trying to offend you... but maybe you should live inJapan for a year or two before dictating what they like and don't like. If you do so and it works, I for one will definitely listen to you. If you haven't, maybe you listen to those who have.

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...the willingness of the producers to make an effort. They can start by finding out to what extent the current international fanbase has extended. By collaborating closely with forums like this or retailers such as NY, HLJ, AmiAmi, etc they could even test the international market's demand for basic things such as English subtitled films, etc.

Trust me kiddo, they know. And it doesn't produce the numbers you think it produces.

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Megaprime... not trying to offend you... but maybe you should live inJapan for a year or two before dictating what they like and don't like. If you do so and it works, I for one will definitely listen to you. If you haven't, maybe you listen to those who have.

No offence taken at all :) . I'm not dictating to the Japanese or rather not dictating at all. I'm simply discussing what the Western world may like or not. I cant discuss Japanese audiences because I dont know them at all. I'm merely discussing about Western audiences and what the Japanese producers can do for them.

Trust me kiddo, they know. And it doesn't produce the numbers you think it produces.

I was guessing based on numbers such as membership on this forum for example. But if that is not the case then I respectfully bow out of the discussion.

Purely out of curiosity, can I ask, what are the numbers of fans in Japan and international? Does anyone have any rough idea? Are we talking in the 100s, 1000s or more?

Edited by megaprime
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I was guessing based on numbers such as membership on this forum for example. But if that is not the case then I respectfully bow out of the discussion.

If we look at JUST this forum, we have a userbase of ~15,700 accounts. At time of this post, we have ~80 unique visitors viewing the forums, ~30 are actual members. Out of those ~15,000 accounts, how many of those are active vs non-active, legitimate vs spam, I haven't crunched the numbers yet.

Our most usage occurred when Frontier aired. Those days where we saw ~200 unique visitors were on viewing days. We have not had those numbers since.

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