Roy's Blues Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 "can o' worms" please peal away from yourself to prevemt cuts. As far as the hokey charactors go the Holy Floating head could have done a little better. BUT as far as my first viewimg goes I LIKED IT. Controling guitars and everything. Hey, If the BDI dystem kind of works for the YF-21, Why not suspend your sense of disbelief a little farther... : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I'd like to know as well. Macross 7 is the ONLY (Macross) series I know NOTHING about. I've seen the first episode plus The Galaxy Is Calling Me. Am I missing a lot of Macross if I don't see this series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Hey, the Guitar control stick is a hell of a lot more plausable than the BDI/BCS system. It's exactly the same as the twin control sticks, only melded into a single guitar shaped control (which is NOT played to control flight, just moved in a smililar fashion to the control sticks). And yes, you're missing a hell of a lot of Macross background story if you don't watch all of 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effect Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I agree, if you don't watch all of it you are really missing out on a lot of Macross. Just seeing a few episodes really doesn't mean you have a good basis for judging the show really hard or gives you the right to tell someone else not to watch it and try to say its crap by making your opinion seem like its fact. Things make a lot more sense the further you go into the story. Seriously though if you can take humans fighting giant size aliens and rebuilding a ship they know nothing about why can't you be more open minded about the elements in Macross 7. It seems people want to make it seem like SDF was so realistic when its just as real as Macross 7, Plus, Zero, II. I agree with Keith on the whole guitar thing. The universe is HUGE, there is no telling what is out there. This why I never really understood the dislike of the Protodevlins as being something as unrealistic or not Macross like. People just need to be more open mined is all and not let the opinions of others seem like fact. Now if you've seen the show and still dislike it, well there is nothing anyone can do about that. Its up to person taste but at least you gave the show a fair shot and tried to understand things and didn't just jump on the hating bandwagon which I have noticed on other forums that people seem to do. Hearing about and reading summaries doesn't seem to work. You have to experience it with your own eyes in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 (edited) Are you missing a lot by not watching 7? Yup... It's kind of a love it or hate it thing, I mean personaly I couldn't stand it until the last 10 episodes and I wouldn't have minded it one bit if Basara took a stray XS-06 slug to the cockpit, but hey that's just me. You could feel otherwise. All I can say is go watch it and decide for yourself what your opinion on it is. I just wouldn't go into it with any sort of expectations. Of all the over the top stuff in 7, I do really like the demonic look Kawamori gave the Varuta VFs. Edited December 20, 2003 by Druna Skass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panon Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Macross 7, what's the problem? The problem is that many people predefine what they consider "Macross", then find Macross 7 is very different from that image they've formed in their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Bombah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myk Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 God damn that's a beautiful Valkyrie..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omg Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 It's worth watching just for: 1) Viffidas 2) Battle 7 and its big gun 3) VF-22 Sturmvogel 4) Gamlin 5) Max as the captain, Millia as the City Mayor It's worth avoiding because: 1) Gundamesque valkyries 2) Basara Nekki 3) Spiritia magic surrounds us all 4) Basara Nekki 5) Basara Nekki Honestly it's just funny to see how the lead character ruins this show with his horrible voice and devil-may-care attittude. They could've just simply cloned Kakizaki, place his head in a puppy robot body and have him recite poetry and it would have been a BETTER protagonist. Well as so many have said you should try to watch it fully to have an opinion. Just heed my warning and be ready to "LISTEN TO HIS SOOONNGG".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Macross 7, what's the problem?The problem is that many people predefine what they consider "Macross", then find Macross 7 is very different from that image they've formed in their minds. Or the other thing is that its a lame sequel. When comparing it to other mid- 90's anime, it's a very mediocre forgettable series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Y'know Most trek seasons suck till the last 10 episodes,... and trek usually gets bashed alot around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Are you missing a lot by not watching 7? Yup...It's kind of a love it or hate it thing, I mean personaly I couldn't stand it until the last 10 episodes and I wouldn't have minded it one bit if Basara took a stray XS-06 slug to the cockpit, but hey that's just me. You could feel otherwise. All I can say is go watch it and decide for yourself what your opinion on it is. I just wouldn't go into it with any sort of expectations. here we go again.... but just like DS was saying about the love it or hate it thing, but for me it was getting better after episode 20 or so; i almost fell asleep watching the first 19 episodes myself. one of the few really good things about M7 was the Full-Armor VF-11C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Göönk Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 It's worth watching just for:1) Viffidas I agree !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit29 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 It's a toss up for the most boring, generic and forgettable Macross 7 character: Viffidas, Ray or Gamlin. They must have come from a "How to draw anime" book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix01 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Honestly it's just funny to see how the lead character ruins this show with his horrible voice and devil-may-care attittude. They could've just simply cloned Kakizaki, place his head in a puppy robot body and have him recite poetry and it would have been a BETTER protagonist. Well as so many have said you should try to watch it fully to have an opinion. Just heed my warning and be ready to "LISTEN TO HIS SOOONNGG".... It could be worse.... They could do a English dub using Tony Oliver for Basara and Reba West for Mylene. (Dodges thrown items) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestroidsRage Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Macross 7 is wonderful and has no flaws whatsoever. The only thing is that Battle 7 should have kicked more arse. Anyone who dislikes Macross 7 for any large reason is simply wrong. Theres no use even trying to explain to him or her WHY theyre wrong. They wont listen to you. So all of us Macross 7 fans can go throughout our lives believing all you Macross 7 haters are just plain wrong. You were born wrong ^__^ -BEN-MAN- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 (edited) Its funny because Macross 7 went over pretty well in Japan. I think its because it was designed to focus on the characters rather than the Mecha( thats what Macross Plus was for) and this doesn't go over well with people who don't like much of wider Japanese anime. I'll qualify that because that is a generalization, but for the most part it does hold true. Macross 7 is a manga series however you cut it, which for the most part focuses on people, not mecha. Look at the longest running Manga strip, its are about police officers and their lives and not about big bad mechas blowing things up. It doesn't have great animation because you can't have good character development over 4 supurbly animated 30 minute OAVs, but you can over a 40 episode season with eh level animation. The reason why there is footage and music repeats because it was assumed that viewers don't remember exactly what happend a week ago, and would like to hear Tosugeki Love heart again because its a catchy track. It also cuts down on the cost as well because series animes are expensive to make and Kawamori blew the budget on Plus. I would hazard a guess that most people haven't watched one of the more popular japanese television series because most of them aren't brought to North America. They focus on character development, not wicked special effects or cool animation that would make it an easy sell in our markets. Its the same difference between television series in England and North America. What are the most popular british television series... Eastenders; its about lower middle class people living their lives in england. Would a show like that make it over in North America? hell no. The same thing happens with macross 7. You can say its terrible series but most japanese would disagree with you. Also the plot isn't that bad. Alot of the show focuses on Pacifism versus militarism, which isn't a terribly big thing in the US but it is VERY relevant to Japanese culture. There are huge battles going on today on should Japan continue to maintain a pacifist policy or should it rearm the JSDF. The whole storyline is about that. Basara believes there is another way to settle the differences rather than fighting and his beliefs save macross 7 fleet. He wins over Gamlin, about episode 27, who figures out that figting isn't the only way to solve things. Thats what Kawamori was getting at. I personally like the music (I have a MD with only macross 7 tracks, and I still have "My Friends" on my playlist), but I was raised up with Japanese culture, so thats probably why. Macross is probably most people's first foray into Japanese pop, and they hate it. Great it isn't nirvana and it doesn't pretend to be. You don't like it, fine, but other people do. I'll give that the first 15+ episodes were not that great but thats because most of you are watching it consecutively as it wasn't inteded to be watched. Man if I watched 20 episodes of a syndicated television show consecutively I'd hate it too. Most people watched an episode week after week. So the first 3 months of it was to get people accustomed to the show. You think that sucked? Well watch Ruruoni Kenshin which is considered one of the best japanese series that was produced right at the same time. First 20 episodes of the Tokyo Arc is fillers and repeat just like Macross. then Comes the Kyoto arc which closely follow the manga, and is reaaaaaaally good, just like how Macross 7 resolves itself. I really think that most of the criticism laid at Macross 7 isn't fair, and I really wish people would just #$@# up about it. great you don't like it but saying its the most terrible Macross series isn't fair. I really disliked the person who put up the poll last week about your favorite series and left out Mac7. It had a lot of interesting parts to it and just because "the animation sucked" or "basara was an idiot" doesn't justify anything in my mind. It was never designed to be like Macross plus, and if it was made in 1981 people would probably say that it was better than the original macross. Just because SDF Macross was the first doesn't make it a sacred cow. For a Japanese series its fairly good, its not the greatest but still good. And the BDI/BCS system is not far fetched at all... We can already hook up electrodes to monkeys and have them move robotic arms. Add in Overtechnology with powerful sensing systems and miniturized computers and the system is very believable. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3186850.stm Edited for grammer and reading flow and a few more points... sorry Edited December 21, 2003 by Noyhauser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightbat Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 (edited) I think most series, whether anime or other focus on the characters more than the mecha the operate (Trek, Bab 5, Patlabor, heh even Dominion Tank Police) Though some things are truth If you cannot identify yourself with (one of) the main character(s) - "Basara's an idiot" may be a not-so-intelligent but honest excuse -chances are you won't like it same goes for the fact if you watch anime because of "superior animation" getting spoiled with advancements isn't a problem, it is when the follow-up show has lesser animation quality than it's ten year older prequal and there is no excuse to have to watch 15-25 eps before it finally starts to get interesting (or 3 seasons,...ST Voyeurger anyone?) this mostly happens with long running series, while short keep a steady pace, longer subsequently drop to episodes that are close to sleep-inducing boredom as for people's memory lasting no longer than 5 days.... this may provide an explination of all those gundam spinoffs Edit: this has nothing to do with the fact if I like M7 or not I'll have to watch it first Edited December 21, 2003 by Nightbat® Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 If anything, Macross 7 is the truest sequel to Macross out of everything presented so far. It's not about the flashy mecha battles, it's about the love & music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr March Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 (edited) I don't understand why there is so much bad press for the BCS/BDI system. Computers work in a way very similar to our own nervous system, utilizing electrical impulses to transmit commands. Granted, sorting through the chaotic thoughts of a human brain would prove nearly unmanagable, however, concentration on the physical nervous system would be much more viable. It wouldn't be a leap to monitor the neural system for movement in the human body (more likely the spinal cord as opposed to the brain) and use a signal processor to translate those EMGs into corresponding commands for control of a mecha. I'm unsure how Macross explains it, but if it works in the afore mentioned fashion, it is most certainly a more credible science fiction concept than lightsabers and transporters...or harvesting human bioelectricity As for Macross 7's audio control system, it would simple be another form of audio recognition combinded with a very unweildly and impractical tactile control system. Also, you wouldn't have any rythm or "music" if one were to use such a system. Combat requires appropriate action to fluid circumstances. You wouldn't sit there playing music in its proper sequence to achieve a tune and fly straight, especially when what you really want to do is say to hell with the music, just play whatever cords are needed to bank left, transform, and unload your gunpod on the enemy mecha Edited December 21, 2003 by Mr March Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 I think someone pointed out that Basara never played his guitar in a fighter until Dynamite 7. So really the controllers are there for flash. Which is fine by me. I think the Gundam esque mecha was more for psychological reasons than anything else. Look at how bad the Jamming Birds worked... because they were pretty well packaged up milterized versions of Sound force. Kawamori wanted to emphasize how you can't manufacture the effect of the true feelings that Sound Force had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 .....Exactly! Why do so few understand that the freakin' guitar control stick is just that, a control stick shaped like a guitar. It isn't played at all (Basara is singing Karaoke in combat), it's just a control stick in the shape of a guitar, with the exact same functions as the regular 2 control sticks, just condensed into one larger unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB0 Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 .....Exactly! Why do so few understand that the freakin' guitar control stick is just that, a control stick shaped like a guitar. It isn't played at all (Basara is singing Karaoke in combat), it's just a control stick in the shape of a guitar, with the exact same functions as the regular 2 control sticks, just condensed into one larger unit. But it lets Basara LOOK bad-ass while he flies! And isn't that what's REALLY important here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radd Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 One of the reasons I like Macross 7 so much is the character developement. Hands down it has the best character developement in any Macross series/movie/OVA, and some of the best character developement in anime that I've seen. There's so many relationships playing out that it would be difficult to name them all. Still the way most people in the show view Basara, and how their views change over time, seems to mirror how many people watching Macross 7 view him. Gamlin has some excellent character developement, it's great to see him grow and change so much over the course of the series. Max and Millia get a lot more story time in Macross 7 than they ever did in SDF Macross, which is a real treat because they've always been some of my favourite characters from the original series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 If anything, Macross 7 is the truest sequel to Macross out of everything presented so far. It's not about the flashy mecha battles, it's about the love & music. Jesus God, Keith, do you have a CLUE what Macross is about? The original Macross was a war drama focusing on personal relationships set against the backdrop of conflict, how they react to their circumstances, and the humanity of the characters, both human and Zentradi. Music played a VERY small role in the overall series compared to 7, and there is as much mecha in Macross as there are tanks and airplanes in WWII films. Both Plus and Zero are far more faithful to the original series in my opinion. The relationships come first above all else. Macross 7 is almost solely about the music. You can't go two minutes in the series without being beaten over the head with another song, which at that point you are probably hearing for the 100th time. Its like watching Sailor Moon. The stuff hits the fan, here comes the costume change! I didn't see that coming! And I'd say Tuxedo Mask and Sailor Moon had a deeper relationship than anything I've seen in Macross 7... so much for love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Maybe it's just me, but I really didn't see all that much character development in 7. Basara pretty much stayed self-centered and looked down on those who didn't understand him (like the UN Spacy people), Mylene didn't really seem to change all that much either. The only charcters I could see some development with was Max and Millia, where they were patching up their relationship (it was nice seeing them hitting some rough spots), Gamlin lightening up a bit, and the biggest one with Sivil singing and realizing she didn't need to feed off others. You compare all that to the original where hardly anyone was the same in the end as they were in the beggining. I have to agree with Duke Togo, Macross is about people in the backdrop of war and how they act towards allies and enemies and how they handle their feelings. Plus and Zero do focus more on character and again I have to agree with Duke Togo on those two being more faithful to the origninal than 7 is. 7 is the only one that has music by itself as the end all be all solution to every problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Togo Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 7 is the only one that has music by itself as the end all be all solution to every problem. Except for Macross II, which Macross 7 heavily borrows from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Macross plus was all about the Mecha... even Kawamori said this, and that was what It was intended for. An OAV that outspent more than any before it is not going to focus on "character development". And trying to say that a 2 hour movie has more character development than a 20 hour TV series that does have character development is bordering on ridiculous. Although there was some in plus, expecially with Guld, thats it. Really the relationship was a plot made so that Kawamori could bang around big mecha and spend lots of money. EVEN HE SAYS IT. Macross Zero is very similar. Macross seven and SDF macross try to emphasize how there are things stronger than war, such as love and emotions. The zentredi were not beaten by superior weapons, they were defeated by culture, the same as in Macross 7. Neither plus or Zero even try to do something like that, and essentially use weapons to determine the winner. Both Plus and Zero are far more faithful to the original series in my opinion. The relationships come first above all else. Macross 7 is almost solely about the music Macross 7 was a war drama, I don't see how you could say otherwise. Look at Gamlin. He is a square military guy at the outset. He watches Physica and Lt. Kinryu die and probably is suffering from depression, and then he meets Basara and mylene. He doesn't understand music but slowly he does. Ray used to be in the military and is now haunted by what war did to him and his friends. The TV show really emphasizes why war is bad. Macross television show emphasized the love triangle and cool mecha which had never been seen before. You compare all that to the original where hardly anyone was the same in the end as they were in the beggining. Uhh maybe you have been watching Robotech, in macross only two people die, Roy and Kazikazi... thats it. eveybody else survives, the love triange, max/mil, Bridge crew, Good zentredis. ect ect. 7 is the only one that has music by itself as the end all be all solution to every problem. Sure Basara doesn't have much character development, but thats the point, its because he believes sooo much in his music and the effect it can have. This was the overriding theme in the story. Music was important because what I said above, its a question of pacifism vs militarism. Kawamori is really putting pacifism as the right way to go. Having Basara being a pacifist without using music or anything else would just make the television show stupid. So he does it with music. I think the Kawamori made a television show that was WAAAAAAY more deep than any gundam or most shows out there. You can't go two minutes in the series without being beaten over the head with another song, which at that point you are probably hearing for the 100th time. AGAIN ITS BECAUSE YOU ARE WATCHING EPISODES BACK TO BACK that were intedended to be watched week after week. Macross 7 was made on a shoestring budget compared to plus and yes it uses repeats. Man if they thought that it was going to be watched consecutively do you think they would repeat every song on every episode? Do you think that Kawamori who had just made macross plus would be that stupid? Sheesh think about it for a second. Sigh I don't know even why I post if people aren't going to read it in discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 You compare all that to the original where hardly anyone was the same in the end as they were in the beggining. Uhh maybe you have been watching Robotech, in macross only two people die, Roy and Kazikazi... thats it. eveybody else survives, the love triange, max/mil, Bridge crew, Good zentredis. ect ect. Eh? Where did I say everyone dies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druna Skass Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 7 is the only one that has music by itself as the end all be all solution to every problem. Sure Basara doesn't have much character development, but thats the point, its because he believes sooo much in his music and the effect it can have. This was the overriding theme in the story. Music was important because what I said above, its a question of pacifism vs militarism. Kawamori is really putting pacifism as the right way to go. Having Basara being a pacifist without using music or anything else would just make the television show stupid. So he does it with music. I think the Kawamori made a television show that was WAAAAAAY more deep than any gundam or most shows out there. I agree with you on the whole pacifism and militarism thing, but I guess I just don't like the way it was convayed in 7 as opposed to SDF. With the way they made Basara's character and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myriad Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 A show gets better after you watch over fifteen episodes? WTF? I hear this over and over. Please explain. Curious as to why this is commonly said. My Translation of the statement: "Macross 7 is not a good series, We only like it because the Macross name is attached to it and because it is part of the alledged "official" timeline." Bomba bombs in my opinion. I guess it is good we all like different things. That is part of what makes the world go round. Just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Eh? Where did I say everyone dies? Uhh yeah... crud. My really big bad, I guess I glanced over it and immediately assumed. One other thing though. I think Basara is probably the only one who hasn't changed (and I could put an argument forward that he has somewhat) I think Mylene grows up alot in the series as well. At the start she was a whiny little brat, but by the end she really starts caring about her music and others as well. her birthday party right before Stargazer kinda shows how much she has matured, in the sense that she realizes life isn't all pretty and nice. I think episode 26 when she helps Gamlin patrol the city also shows how she is starting to buy into basara's beliefs, and when they try the capture operation you see how dedicated she is to the music and the beliefs. Ray changes as well, as I think he overcomes some of the problems he has before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noyhauser Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 A show gets better after you watch over fifteen episodes? WTF? I hear this over and over. Please explain. Curious as to why this is commonly said.My Translation of the statement: "Macross 7 is not a good series, We only like it because the Macross name is attached to it and because it is part of the alledged "official" timeline." No because the storyline for the first 15 episodes did not have a storyline per say. They generally were formulaic and did not progress the storyline forward. Only when City 7 gets taken away does the story really start to move forward. The first 15 are nothing like the rest of the series and yes do detract from the series but that is because they were meant for a different format than how they are watched today. Take the first 15 out and then the story and pacing is excellent. A lot of my opinion is shaped by the fact I watched macross 7 originally on Japanese television when It first came out. I liked it at the time, although there were other series at the time that peaked my interest. I still have the tapes of the episodes from after Valgo's death to stargazer floating around somewhere (directly off Japanese television) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justvinnie Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 M7 rules. It is the only true sequel to SDF-Macross. vinnie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent ONE Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 LOL... Guitar control stick!!? There was actually no control stick you could see in the show, that is because Basara was sitting on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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