I am a weird macross fan...

[Duke Togo]

I'd add my two cents, but after SDF:M/DYRL/2012, Plus is my favorite Macross release. So, ya, I'd likely not steer you in the right direction. But do avoid II.

[Loop]

Which version of plus are we all referring to? There was a lot of debate over whether the OVA or the movie version was better.

[Duke Togo]

Which version of plus are we all referring to? There was a lot of debate over whether the OVA or the movie version was better.

I enjoy them both.

[Gubaba]

Which version of plus are we all referring to? There was a lot of debate over whether the OVA or the movie version was better.

There's debate over which is better, but I don't think anyone ever says that one version is bad.

I think the consensus is that the OVA has a better beginning, and the movie has a better ending. But really, it doesn't matter which version you watch first.

[sketchley]

I think the consensus is that the OVA has a better beginning, and the movie has a better ending. But really, it doesn't matter which version you watch first.

I'd like to add that the OVA version (Manga Video release) has better music during the final climactic showdown of the two heroes.

Anyhow, I'm in the camp that doesn't think as highly of Plus now as during the first decade after it's release. Have I watched it too much? Did I grown up and mature to a point where I think the characters and their actions are juvenile and the story is melodramatic? I can't say, but I don't think that Macross F is the best sequel of SDFM, either.

The one thing that I can say is that Macross 7 is the better sequel for the sheer creativity of the setting, never mind what was actually done with it.

[Vepariga]

for Plus I think the OVA is better,just put the Movie part of Gulds fight with the Ghost in it and voila,best version of both.

[Kaldar5]

I can't say, but I don't think that Macross F is the best sequel of SDFM, either.

The one thing that I can say is that Macross 7 is the better sequel for the sheer creativity of the setting, never mind what was actually done with it.

So Macross 7 is the better sequel because of the setting and creativity, as long as you don't actually watch it and see what they did with it...?

Maybe I'm not getting what is being said here. Sorry for any misinterpretation.

Sure, ignoring the poor mechanical design implemntation, bad combat coreography, less than serious characters, and laughable villians Macross 7 is a better sqeuel to SDFM than Frontier.... Wat?

But you can't ignore or cut out those things, so Frontier is the best series sequel and the only series that comes close to living up to SDFM's legacy.

Lets look at the basics of what makes Macross, Macross:

(and make it loved by all smart attractive people with good taste, no matter if they are into artsy or action)

Tragedy?

Frontier: Yes

7: No. Unless you count minor characters introduced for the purpose of dying(um, no!), and one of those was completely goofy and 100% intentional while grinning on his part.

Love triangle?

Frontier: Yes

7: Basara is not remotely interested in a physical relationship with any main character. Does he care? Yes. Love tension/romantic moments? Not in the slightest.

Bad ass combat?

Frontier: YES!

7: No. The quality was not there. SDFM has it's stinker badly animated episodes or fight scenes sure. But they were not the norm.

Great Music?

Frontier: Yes

7: Yes. At times reused to a noticeable degree, but I'm not arguing this one. Bomba.

Love/Peace/Culture/Acceptance of "other" overcoming War/Senseless violence/Fear of "other"

Frontier: yesss... well, they could have done a bit more I think, but it was there.

7: Yes. Actually giving it to 7 on this one. Basara is consistent on this. But to contrast the want for peace, and make it serious, you need the loss of war. There was LOSS in SDFM. Spirita draining beams just didn't have a sense of loss or horror of violence.

But the most important thing:

People that have never seen any Macross can start watching Frontier and friggin love it and become Macross fans. It can stand alone, but also tastefully references all that has come before while not duplicating exactly.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Kaldar5

[sketchley]

so Frontier is the best series sequel and the only series that comes close to living up to SDFM's legacy.

You have your opinion, and others have theirs.

Macross F is a lesser sequel for one obvious fatal flaw: there's too much fan service to the point that it's embarrassing to show it to non-fans as representative of either Macross or anime in general. No, I'm not talking about the shower scenes or whatever, I'm talking about Klan Klan's character design.

Again, I'm not saying that Macross 7 is the best Macross sequel, but at least it passes the litmus test of being able to be judged on it's own merits without any negative judgments falling on either the genre or the person presenting it to others.

[Duke Togo]

You have your opinion, and others have theirs.

Macross F is a lesser sequel for one obvious fatal flaw: there's too much fan service to the point that it's embarrassing to show it to non-fans as representative of either Macross or anime in general. No, I'm not talking about the shower scenes or whatever, I'm talking about Klan Klan's character design.

Again, I'm not saying that Macross 7 is the best Macross sequel, but at least it passes the litmus test of being able to be judged on it's own merits without any negative judgments falling on either the genre or the person presenting it to others.

Sketchly is right: Macross 7 is better than Frontier because 7 doesn't have any fan service and is a far more serious and mature production.

[dizman]

l'm actually surprised it took three pages to get to the 7/Frontier bashing. Oh and I thought the love triangle of 7 was between Mylene Gamlin and Basara.

[Duke Togo]

l'm actually surprised it took three pages to get to the 7/Frontier bashing. Oh and I thought the love triangle of 7 was between Mylene Gamlin and Basara.

Basara doesn't love anyone but himself, and I like Frontier. Hell, I watched it streaming--live--from Japan every morning a new episode was on.

Anyway, I like Plus--a lot. But II really has no place in a Macross viewing marathon. The Metal Siren is pretty kick ass, though.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Duke Togo

[Kaldar5]

You have your opinion, and others have theirs.

Macross F is a lesser sequel for one obvious fatal flaw: there's too much fan service to the point that it's embarrassing to show it to non-fans as representative of either Macross or anime in general. No, I'm not talking about the shower scenes or whatever, I'm talking about Klan Klan's character design.

Again, I'm not saying that Macross 7 is the best Macross sequel, but at least it passes the litmus test of being able to be judged on it's own merits without any negative judgments falling on either the genre or the person presenting it to others.

Yep. Responding to your opinion with my opinion plus reasons for it, as you have now done. We all have things we like more in the Macross universe. That's cool, and it's good to discuss the reasons for it.

I agree that Klan's design is a bit much, but at least she is portrayed as a competent female character and not just there for panty shots. As for myself, and the women I have shown Mac F to have more of a problem with the episode consisting of people chasing Sheryl's worn panties around, and even that is a "Yeah yeah fanservice episode, whatever".

So when you show people Macross 7 with concerns about fanservice, do you stop each episode before the 2nd ending starts, skip episode 41 and all of Dynamite?

Anyway, if someone is so straight laced as to actually have a problem with Macross Frontier level fanservice I would show them Legend of Galactic Heroes if I wanted to demonstrate serious anime.

I would not choose a show with a 14 year old wearing a near thong one piece swimsuit with shoulder pads as everyday wear as a more acceptable alternative for people with delicate sensibilities.

But more likely I would just not invite extremist puritans over to watch stuff in the first place.

Honestly the entire mild fanservice concern thing just doesn't cross my mind and isn't an issue for me, so I can't identify. Heck my wife asks me to watch "Rosario + Vampire" with her as her idea, and she watched the entire series. Wasn't my thing.

My wife loves Frontier, and is now a new Macross fan because of it. I've shown Frontier to female friends, wasn't a big deal.

Macross 7 is better than Frontier because 7 doesn't have any fan service and is a far more serious and mature production.

Cannot comprehend. Not dealing with this one.

The Beauty of retreat!

Oh and I thought the love triangle of 7 was between Mylene Gamlin and Basara.

I must have missed the part where Basara expresses interest or pursues Mylene romantically.

Yes he hates Gamlin. Basara is protective of Mylene. But I'm missing the part where he is actually even slightly interested in her.

And I'm not a Basara hater here. I enjoyed Macross 7, it has it's problems, just not my favorite.

In closing, like what you like and enjoy your fandom people.

[sketchley]

Yep. Responding to your opinion with my opinion plus reasons for it, as you have now done. We all have things we like more in the Macross universe. That's cool, and it's good to discuss the reasons for it

Posts that require a 3,000 word essay to justify the opinion is... obsessive, no?

Anyhow, nothing's wrong with it as long as no one continues to say things along the lines of "anyone who doesn't like ### is (insert derogative).", like someone was recently doing about MF somewhere in MW.

[anime52k8]

Saying that you're too embarrassed to watch or discuss a show with people you know in real life because one of the characters has big boobs speaks more negatively of you and your maturity level than it does of the show.

[Duke Togo]

Saying that you're too embarrassed to watch or discuss a show with people you know in real life because one of the characters has big boobs speaks more negatively of you and your maturity level than it does of the show.

I'm sorry, but no. There's nothing mature about a character that bounces between boob monster to over the top lolicon. She's certainly a low point in an otherwise good series.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Duke Togo

[ff95gj]

Such fan services are so common in Japanese anime you cannot avoid them.

In M7, there are also that manager showing her cleavage and the flying vampiress with big boobs.

Oh, the Mylene is even worse as 1) she is always in her swimsuit, and 2) she looks a child. My conscience rests better when it is about adults.

[Kaldar5]

Posts that require a 3,000 word essay to justify the opinion is... obsessive, no?

What? You want me to work while I am at work instead of posting or something?

Obcessed? Proud of it.

Macross World, where you may run into obcessed Macross Fans.

Anyhow, nothing's wrong with it as long as no one continues to say

things along the lines of "anyone who doesn't like ### is (insert

derogative).", like someone was recently doing about MF somewhere in MW.

Yep, that's not cool at all.

But I do reserve the right to call Macross fans (all of em!) people with good taste.

And while I am not a huge fan of 7, I do stand up for it when people totally trash it. I just might not reccomend it to new fans as something to watch right away, and will pit it against the other shows.

Maybe watching all these love triangles makes us wanna fight about what we love?

Basara doesn't love anyone but himself, and I like Frontier.

I think Basara more loves and desires peace for all sentient beings, kinda like a rock&roll Bhudda.

That's cool with me.

[Scyla]

Well my favourite will always be Macross 7 because I was exposed to it as a teenager in the mid 90s. It was just the right show for the right mindset I guess.

M7 has a lot of cool stuff in it. Tons of Valkyries (granted most designs are based on Plus) and a lot of tie ins from the original tv series.

Plus it has an awesome J-Rock soundtrack so all your arguments are invalid!

One Gamlin Kick to all you haters!

[Tochiro]

Now now now, I thought it was pretty clear that the REAL triangle in M7 was Basara - Sivil - Gigile.

Or didnt anyone listen to Episode 5 of Macross SpeakerPODcast where we discussed M7 with Matt Alt and Patrick Galbraith?

...wait...dont answer that.

I still think that the pre-MF love triangle rocks the most though.. Isamu's father - Bobby - captain Wilder.

....the things one cant unsee after frequenting Comiket....

[Cdisdope]

The thing that I like more about M7 compared to MF is its originality...(coming from someone who tried to watch M7 twice and finally watched all episodes recently).

MF was SDFM with name changes, same plots different outcomes. Max dies, causing Miria to be alone, Kakizaki and Roy stay alive, Kamjin is still rogue, with a one episode showing.

M7 definitely has more character.

To each his/her own.

Here's a question...why is it that the Zentradi from M7 - MF use uniforms from DYRL and not SDFM? Have any of the creators of the Macross series stated why? From my understanding of the Macross canon is that DYRL was a movie to depict what happened in Space War I. If someone knows the answer, please school me.

[Pterobat]

The thing that I like more about M7 compared to MF is its originality...(coming from someone who tried to watch M7 twice and finally watched all episodes recently).

MF was SDFM with name changes, same plots different outcomes. Max dies, causing Miria to be alone, Kakizaki and Roy stay alive, Kamjin is still rogue, with a one episode showing.

M7 definitely has more character.

To each his/her own.

Here's a question...why is it that the Zentradi from M7 - MF use uniforms from DYRL and not SDFM? Have any of the creators of the Macross series stated why? From my understanding of the Macross canon is that DYRL was a movie to depict what happened in Space War I. If someone knows the answer, please school me.

Nobody knows why. In a nutshell, both versions of Space War 1 are considered official and can be used at any time or any point to influence the design work of future series. There is no explanation of how it all would fit together into a single timeline, and trying to figure it out only creates headaches.

And yes, at the same time, DYRL is considered an in-story movie as well as being a possible source for future designs.

I don't like 7 at all, and it took until the movies for me to love Frontier, but I don't make a big Thing out of either of these. Because of the movies, I would say I preferred Frontier, but the TV series didn't engage me all that much.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Pterobat

[Gubaba]

The thing that I like more about M7 compared to MF is its originality...(coming from someone who tried to watch M7 twice and finally watched all episodes recently).

MF was SDFM with name changes, same plots different outcomes. Max dies, causing Miria to be alone, Kakizaki and Roy stay alive, Kamjin is still rogue, with a one episode showing.

M7 definitely has more character.

To each his/her own.

Here's a question...why is it that the Zentradi from M7 - MF use uniforms from DYRL and not SDFM? Have any of the creators of the Macross series stated why? From my understanding of the Macross canon is that DYRL was a movie to depict what happened in Space War I. If someone knows the answer, please school me.

Remember that the people who hammered out the "SDFMTV is canon, DYRL is propaganda movie" work at Big West... but that Kawamori CREATES each Macross story, and he sez that all versions are equally valid.

As far as I can see, there are two different mindsets at work here... one who wants to keep everything straight and "canon," and one who wants to go with whichever version looks better.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Pterobat, whose views are probably (as usual) right on the money.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Gubaba

[Cdisdope]

Thanks a lot! Here's what I would like to believe happened...

The Zentrans and Meltrans, after seeing the movie thought their original clothes were outdated and were so impressed with the new "cultured" look, that they decided to make it standard.

[jvmacross]

Here's a question...why is it that the Zentradi from M7 - MF use uniforms from DYRL and not SDFM? Have any of the creators of the Macross series stated why? From my understanding of the Macross canon is that DYRL was a movie to depict what happened in Space War I. If someone knows the answer, please school me.

For me, Macross Zero and Macross the First actually have helped in bringing the pre-DYRL "look" inline with the current "look" of the Macross universe....basically, the valk color schemes and military uniforms.....I also appreciate how the Macross Frontier designers went the extra step of designing different uniforms for our beloved heroes...after all they are SMS not NUNS.....

[Gubaba]

Thanks a lot! Here's what I would like to believe happened...

The Zentrans and Meltrans, after seeing the movie thought their original clothes were outdated and were so impressed with the new "cultured" look, that they decided to make it standard.

From my way of viewing it, you're overthinking. I believe that both SDFMTV and DYRL "happened," and can be used as a source for future sequels. If you try to be exclusive, you'll only be disappointed.

[Cdisdope]

I was just speaking hypothetically...I wasn't being serious at all.

[Mommar]

I must have missed the part where Basara expresses interest or pursues Mylene romantically.

Yes he hates Gamlin. Basara is protective of Mylene. But I'm missing the part where he is actually even slightly interested in her.

Actually, love has very little to do with sexual attraction so it's perfectly possible that if Basara is protective of Mylene it means he loves her, thus a love triangle would still be there it just would have to do with the romantic kind.

[Jefferson]

From my way of viewing it, you're overthinking. I believe that both SDFMTV and DYRL "happened," and can be used as a source for future sequels. If you try to be exclusive, you'll only be disappointed.

I love how Kodachi incorporates both versions in his novels. In The Ride whith Hikaru go inside the Bodolzaa's fortress or he crash on Earth and in Macross 30 when Minmay sing Ai oboe or Ai ga nagareru during the last battle.

I think it's the same for Frontier. The TV series and the movies can be used for sequels.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Jefferson

[Duke Togo]

Ignore this post

Edited April 3, 2013 by Duke Togo

[Agent ONE]

God I hate the idea of the good name of DYRL being affiliated with (a movie within) M7... When seeing this, there was steam coming out of my ears. This was Kawamori's ultimate sin. To me, this was worse than ANYTHING Lucas did to star wars.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Agent ONE

[Gubaba]

God I hate the idea of the good name of DYRL being affiliated with (a movie within) M7... When seeing this, there was steam coming out of my ears. This was Kawamori's ultimate sin. To me, this was worse than ANYTHING Lucas did to star wars.

How insightful of you to find that in yourself. Thanks for sharing, and I hope you get over your feelings of hurt about it someday soon!

[Gakken85]

I should be breaking into the Frontier Show this weekend.

I skipped through the 7 movie after watching 10-15 min as it just looked preposterous and silly.

Guitars and that annoying little kid. F that. Sad that that's attached to Macross fandom. haha.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Gakken85

[Lightning]

you missed Gamlin in a -22S!.....that was the high point of it.

[Gubaba]

I should be breaking into the Frontier Show this weekend.

I skipped through the 7 movie after watching 10-15 min as it just looked preposterous and silly.

Guitars and that annoying little kid. F that. Sad that that's attached to Macross fandom. haha.

BEST FACE-OFF DUEL EVER!!

(Also best tits, but that's another story, and may be told another time...)

[Kaldar5]

I should be breaking into the Frontier Show this weekend.

I skipped through the 7 movie after watching 10-15 min as it just looked preposterous and silly.

Guitars and that annoying little kid. F that. Sad that that's attached to Macross fandom. haha.

Called it.

So did you watch the Mac 7 series first? Or just part of the movie?

And enjoy Frontier.